Re: worst nightmare

[Guest guest]

I believe that the doctor knew what your husband desired and made him happy by feeding it. The problem is that the tumor may or may NOT be aggressive. He needs an immediate follow-up with a different urologist. AS and surgery are not the only options. Your husband needs to accept that.Steve S in ArkansasTo:

ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

[Guest guest]

I believe that the doctor knew what your husband desired and made him happy by feeding it. The problem is that the tumor may or may NOT be aggressive. He needs an immediate follow-up with a different urologist. AS and surgery are not the only options. Your husband needs to accept that.Steve S in ArkansasTo:

ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

[Guest guest]

Marla,As you know, none of us are doctors and our opinions, certainlymine anyway, are the opinions of educated laymen, not experts.However, for whatever they are worth, here are my thoughts.Like you, I am very suspicious of the idea that a random needlestuck in the prostate would remove all of the cancer. That soundswildly unlikely to me.However, leaving that aside, I don't think the idea of watchfulwaiting is necessarily a bad idea. Some cancers do not progress anddo not need treatment. There are many studies that show that moremen are treated for cancer than actually need treatment. And if youthought that the biopsy was a difficult procedure, radical prostatectomyis clearly much more so.If your husband

does need treatment, but not for another five years,that will not only put off the side effects of treatment for five years, butwill also, possibly, make more treatment options available. There areadvances in cancer therapy and it's conceivable that better therapiesmight be available when needs them.Is watchful waiting risky? Well, yes it is. But surgery is risky too.I understand your emotions about this. When we get a diagnosisof cancer we sometimes want treatment yesterday! The idea that this horrible thing might be growing inside is hard to bear. But when youstand back and think calmly about it, the decision to go for immediatesurgery isn't really as cut and dried as it might first appear.The key thing is to emphasize the "watchful" part of "watchful waiting",the "active" part of "active surveillance." and his doctor shoulddiscuss

what observations should trigger a change from waiting to treatment. For example, if the PSA rises above X, there should beanother biopsy and if the PSA rises above Y, treatment should beundertaken.Good luck to both of you. Alan

[Guest guest]

Marla,As you know, none of us are doctors and our opinions, certainlymine anyway, are the opinions of educated laymen, not experts.However, for whatever they are worth, here are my thoughts.Like you, I am very suspicious of the idea that a random needlestuck in the prostate would remove all of the cancer. That soundswildly unlikely to me.However, leaving that aside, I don't think the idea of watchfulwaiting is necessarily a bad idea. Some cancers do not progress anddo not need treatment. There are many studies that show that moremen are treated for cancer than actually need treatment. And if youthought that the biopsy was a difficult procedure, radical prostatectomyis clearly much more so.If your husband

does need treatment, but not for another five years,that will not only put off the side effects of treatment for five years, butwill also, possibly, make more treatment options available. There areadvances in cancer therapy and it's conceivable that better therapiesmight be available when needs them.Is watchful waiting risky? Well, yes it is. But surgery is risky too.I understand your emotions about this. When we get a diagnosisof cancer we sometimes want treatment yesterday! The idea that this horrible thing might be growing inside is hard to bear. But when youstand back and think calmly about it, the decision to go for immediatesurgery isn't really as cut and dried as it might first appear.The key thing is to emphasize the "watchful" part of "watchful waiting",the "active" part of "active surveillance." and his doctor shoulddiscuss

what observations should trigger a change from waiting to treatment. For example, if the PSA rises above X, there should beanother biopsy and if the PSA rises above Y, treatment should beundertaken.Good luck to both of you. Alan

[Guest guest]

I would have thought that you would have been very happy to have AS as an option. What I would not give to be in 's shoes with such an insignificant tumor. Oh well. But it does appear that you need to educate yourself so you can better understand this cancer. Education will help you keep control when you see other doctors. Good luck.JeffSubject: worst nightmareTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 2:21 PM

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

[Guest guest]

I would have thought that you would have been very happy to have AS as an option. What I would not give to be in 's shoes with such an insignificant tumor. Oh well. But it does appear that you need to educate yourself so you can better understand this cancer. Education will help you keep control when you see other doctors. Good luck.JeffSubject: worst nightmareTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 2:21 PM

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

[Guest guest]

It never hurts to get a 2nd, or even a 3rd opinion. Speak with your husband and discuss things again. As Steve noted, there are many options, and he should consider each of them. The decision is ultimately his, but knowledge is power. Advise him to read up as much as he can on prostate Ca, ask him to post here, and read the posts of others who have gone before him. There are a lot of really experienced, knowledgable people on this forum. To: ProstateCancerSupport From: fun_luvin_1972@...Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:21:39 +0000Subject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the “I’m a PC” Messenger themepack now. Download now.

[Guest guest]

It never hurts to get a 2nd, or even a 3rd opinion. Speak with your husband and discuss things again. As Steve noted, there are many options, and he should consider each of them. The decision is ultimately his, but knowledge is power. Advise him to read up as much as he can on prostate Ca, ask him to post here, and read the posts of others who have gone before him. There are a lot of really experienced, knowledgable people on this forum. To: ProstateCancerSupport From: fun_luvin_1972@...Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:21:39 +0000Subject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

out of surgery.

Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check

again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is

a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore

to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance

is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course

my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways

after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was .

was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there

was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that

with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed

the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr

said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other

1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy

probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my

head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys

should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I

will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a

pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

negatives.

SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior.

Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual

date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just

do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

false negative...

Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the “I’m a PC” Messenger themepack now. Download now.

[Guest guest]

I am in the same exact situation AS is an option with a tumar 2.55 mm

my doctor basically told me my options THOUGH HE DID NOT RECCOMEND

waiting 5 years, but stated options for treatment would be about the

same as long as AS is maintained and no radical changes in PSA, and

or secondary Biopsy down the road, along with Bone Scans as well.

Relax, I'm a very level headed grounded person and the thought of

ripping out my insides vs AS and having to deal with knowing I have

it is for me a very easy decision, Educate wait and relax.

>

> Subject: worst nightmare

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 2:21 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk

my husband

>

> out of surgery.

>

>

>

> Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can

barly

>

> breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

>

> are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

>

> effect you. He kept saying, " lets do another PSA and biopsy " to

check

>

> again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

>

> false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other

dr

>

> did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the

blood.

>

> I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

>

> trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to

wait

>

> for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

>

> say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he

is

>

> a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

>

>

>

> Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen

anymore

>

> to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

>

> and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

>

> active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

>

> take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

>

> social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active

servailance

>

> is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of

course

>

> my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking.

Anyways

>

> after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was

.

>

>

>

> was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said

there

>

> was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

>

> normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said

that

>

> with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably

removed

>

> the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

>

> laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what

Dr

>

> said. " biopsy probably removed the cancer " . But what about the

other

>

> 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

>

> usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but " biopsy

>

> probably removed the cancer " . I cannot get that out of my

>

> head..... " biopsy probably removed the cancer " . WOW maybe all guys

>

> should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

>

> person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And

I

>

> will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

>

> with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at

a

>

> pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

>

> negatives.

>

>

>

> SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you

do

>

> not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go

sevirior.

>

> Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

>

> said " I am PENCILED in for surgery in February " . Ok is that an

actual

>

> date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

>

> Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

>

> cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

>

> with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

>

> and say.. ohh yippy " biopsy probably removed the cancer " , lets just

>

> do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

>

> false negative...

>

[Guest guest]

I am in the same exact situation AS is an option with a tumar 2.55 mm

my doctor basically told me my options THOUGH HE DID NOT RECCOMEND

waiting 5 years, but stated options for treatment would be about the

same as long as AS is maintained and no radical changes in PSA, and

or secondary Biopsy down the road, along with Bone Scans as well.

Relax, I'm a very level headed grounded person and the thought of

ripping out my insides vs AS and having to deal with knowing I have

it is for me a very easy decision, Educate wait and relax.

>

> Subject: worst nightmare

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 2:21 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk

my husband

>

> out of surgery.

>

>

>

> Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can

barly

>

> breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

>

> are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

>

> effect you. He kept saying, " lets do another PSA and biopsy " to

check

>

> again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

>

> false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other

dr

>

> did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the

blood.

>

> I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

>

> trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to

wait

>

> for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will

>

> say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he

is

>

> a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well.

>

>

>

> Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen

anymore

>

> to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance

>

> and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the

>

> active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not

>

> take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the

>

> social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active

servailance

>

> is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of

course

>

> my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking.

Anyways

>

> after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was

.

>

>

>

> was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said

there

>

> was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back

>

> normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said

that

>

> with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably

removed

>

> the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to

>

> laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what

Dr

>

> said. " biopsy probably removed the cancer " . But what about the

other

>

> 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That

>

> usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but " biopsy

>

> probably removed the cancer " . I cannot get that out of my

>

> head..... " biopsy probably removed the cancer " . WOW maybe all guys

>

> should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A

>

> person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And

I

>

> will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down

>

> with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at

a

>

> pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false

>

> negatives.

>

>

>

> SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you

do

>

> not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go

sevirior.

>

> Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end

>

> said " I am PENCILED in for surgery in February " . Ok is that an

actual

>

> date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do?

>

> Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I

>

> cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this

>

> with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back

>

> and say.. ohh yippy " biopsy probably removed the cancer " , lets just

>

> do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back

>

> false negative...

>

[Guest guest]

,

I know that right now you are hurting and in shock.

I had a friend who had a situation similar to your husband's. He had surgery and the doctor came in and told him that when they did the pathology they could find NO cancer. It does happen. My friend has to live with the side effects of the treatment for no reason.

The doctor sounds like a very caring man who wants very much to do the right thing for your husband.

AS does not mean doing nothing. Your husband would be very closely monitored. Cancer is not necessarily a death sentence. There are men on this list who have lived many years without having active treatment and he could always pursue active treatment at any time if that was his choice.

I would suggest that you go on Terry's website, http://www.yananow.net , and read about some of the men who have chosen AS also about some of the men who have chosen surgery. Also read the information at http://www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za/PersonalHistory.html

Once you understand what the realities of what the treatment alternatives really mean then you might be able to deal with them better.

In addition you need to think about yourself. Did the SW recommend that you talk to someone to help you work this through? It might be a good thing for you.

Kathy

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of rachel_luv2003Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:22 PMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

,

I know that right now you are hurting and in shock.

I had a friend who had a situation similar to your husband's. He had surgery and the doctor came in and told him that when they did the pathology they could find NO cancer. It does happen. My friend has to live with the side effects of the treatment for no reason.

The doctor sounds like a very caring man who wants very much to do the right thing for your husband.

AS does not mean doing nothing. Your husband would be very closely monitored. Cancer is not necessarily a death sentence. There are men on this list who have lived many years without having active treatment and he could always pursue active treatment at any time if that was his choice.

I would suggest that you go on Terry's website, http://www.yananow.net , and read about some of the men who have chosen AS also about some of the men who have chosen surgery. Also read the information at http://www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za/PersonalHistory.html

Once you understand what the realities of what the treatment alternatives really mean then you might be able to deal with them better.

In addition you need to think about yourself. Did the SW recommend that you talk to someone to help you work this through? It might be a good thing for you.

Kathy

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of rachel_luv2003Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:22 PMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

> I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband

> out of surgery.

>

> Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly

> breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you

> are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never

> effect you. He kept saying, " lets do another PSA and biopsy " to check

> again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give

> false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr

> did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood.

>

How old is ? Active Surveillance (once called Watchful Waiting) is,

I understand, usually recommended for older men.

What the medic recommends sounds to me like exactly that, and it

assuredly is *not* just watching someone die, as fears. Note the

word, " Active. " Essentially it means a regimen of testing to track what,

if any, developments might be occurring.

Back in September, I recommended various sources of reliable information

and it appears that and did not avail themselves of these

resources. If so, I very much regret that. The more one knows the better

(s)he will cope.

If the biopsy was painful, I suspect that it's because did not

receive the analgesics recommended. Did he request them? Post-biopsy

pain is unusual, I understand, but anything is possible. Did the medic

not prescribe, for example, Percocet?

> I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have

> trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait

> for more test results. Even a PSA can be false.

It should not be " false " if one prepares for it by avoiding for some 48

hours anything that will stress the gland.

This is one of the matters well-covered in the book I recommended, _A

Primer on Prostate Cancer_. Also on the website of the Prostate Cancer

Research Institute. There is much that can be done beyond PSAs and

biopsies to develop data on the status of the PCa. It's covered in the

above sources, as well as others.

But, sorry to say, resources that are not consulted are of no value.

(snip)

> To me active servailance (sic) is watching a person die slowly. I

> know, no one will agree.

Correct, and for good reason. If/when the surveillance discovers

something that requires treatment, then one treats.

> ........And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go

> up and down with cancer.

That would be very unusual. PCa will develop, if it does, in a

straight-line manner. If the tumour(s) grow, so does the PSA.

> ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like

> throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why

> there are false negatives.

That is why several specimens are taken, and also why they are taken

from areas of the gland that are most likely to develop PCa. And there

are other tests such as CDUS (colour doppler ultrasound) that might

prove helpful. See the above sources as well as Google.

> SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do

> not trust the dr.

So perhaps can be persuaded to see another medic for a second

opinion. I note that and are in Winnipeg, and am unsure

whether it is allowed in that Province.

The medic's diagnosis is essentially that the PCa is trivial and

non-threatening. I'd think that that would be considered good news....

Do not permit fear to take control.

Regards,

Steve J

" Given the horror stories that we grew up with, fear of cancer is

natural. But the more you fear it, the more it will control you. "

and

" Know your enemy. Get educated. But also know that it won't be easy. It

will be confusing, overwhelming and depressing. That is the nature of

cancer and thus the very educational process as you regain control. "

-- Both by Young, PCa activist and mentor

Phoenix 5

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that another opinion is in order. I would contact another physician. You might also want to think seriously about firing the current doctor.

Coy

worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

First let me say that nobody has found the perfect way of telling a totally non agressive tumour (pussy cat) from a progressive one (tiger). Active surveillance does accept that at the first sign of progression action is taken.

I have to say that the side effects of surgery are a strong likelihood of erectile disfunction (which can be treated, but is never the same as before) and varying levels of continence problems (from none to leaking like a tap).

The old watchful waiting idea (wait till symptoms show) was never a good idea, but the properly managed active surveillance with regular PSA and other tests make it a good option for those with small tumours well inside the galnd, but it is not right for everyone. When I say everyone that includes the near and dear as well as the patient.

Many folk, despite reassurances, want to take action - now!!!! The medics have a duty to offer options that are right for the patient, this should include AS and surgery but also the other possible treatments such as brachytherapy and external shaped beam radiation.

If the medics did not offer options, they would not be doing their duty. In the UK we have been trying to get all the urologists who see new patients to talk through all options and not just their specialisation. This is not yet perfect, but things are getting much better.

I know that what I say won't settle your mind, but may explain why the medic said what he said.

Best wishes

worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

Ma'am,

Surgery is tough, there's no disguising that fact. Any of us who have undergone that operation will tell you that it is very hard on you physically and mentally. If your husband has a realistic option of avoiding an operation then that is the far better alternative. After all you have to keep in mind that they are not abandoning him to his fate. Sometimes the fear of what might happen is worse than the event and when you know that somebody you love has cancer it can be a very scary experience. You've a right to be frightened too but you should be able to recognise that emotion for what it is too. You are your husband's most valuable asset; to get through this he needs you and I know when it happened to me my girlfriend was the rock around which I started to reconstruct my life. But, if I could have avoided that operation I would. It just wasn't an option for me. Best of luck to you both.

Regards

Huxley in the UK

worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

Ma'am,

Surgery is tough, there's no disguising that fact. Any of us who have undergone that operation will tell you that it is very hard on you physically and mentally. If your husband has a realistic option of avoiding an operation then that is the far better alternative. After all you have to keep in mind that they are not abandoning him to his fate. Sometimes the fear of what might happen is worse than the event and when you know that somebody you love has cancer it can be a very scary experience. You've a right to be frightened too but you should be able to recognise that emotion for what it is too. You are your husband's most valuable asset; to get through this he needs you and I know when it happened to me my girlfriend was the rock around which I started to reconstruct my life. But, if I could have avoided that operation I would. It just wasn't an option for me. Best of luck to you both.

Regards

Huxley in the UK

worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer......OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

,

Sounds to me like we have two things going on here.

First it sounds like you need to see another doctor. During the four years that we watched my hi grade pin turn to cancer I had two biopsy's and neither of them was pain full or bloody. Mr Dr. injected both side with lidocane and there was no pain so to speak. Was it something that I would do for pleasure on a Sunday afternoon, no, but it wasn't that bad. As for the blood, there was some in my semen for a couple of months but there was no discomfort associated with it and things returned to normal.

During that four years we watched my PSA every 6 months and it stayed between 3.4 and 4.2. Then at my next 6 month PSA it went to 5.2 and my doctor knew it was time. He did another biopsy and one of twelve came back 20% positive with a Gleason of 3 + 3. My doctor sat down with my wife and I and explained all the options and I decided that surgery was the only one for me. Do I have any regrets waiting those four years, absolutely not. Fortunately everything is fine so far, my PSA's have been 0.01 and my side effects are minimal. Do I wish I had the balls to have waited another four years, ABSOLUTELY. Make no mistakes about it radical prostatectomy no matter how its done is MAJOR SURGERY and things will never be the same once its gone.

Second, it sounds to me like you and have a great relationship and you have made it through these difficult times for 18 years. You got to this point in your relationship together and you need to go forward into this together. There are no easy choices dealing with rotten disease and no matter what treatment option chooses will effect both of you and you need to be supportive to one another every inch of the way.

Good luck,

Rick

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I

ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I

could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go

sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

,

Sounds to me like we have two things going on here.

First it sounds like you need to see another doctor. During the four years that we watched my hi grade pin turn to cancer I had two biopsy's and neither of them was pain full or bloody. Mr Dr. injected both side with lidocane and there was no pain so to speak. Was it something that I would do for pleasure on a Sunday afternoon, no, but it wasn't that bad. As for the blood, there was some in my semen for a couple of months but there was no discomfort associated with it and things returned to normal.

During that four years we watched my PSA every 6 months and it stayed between 3.4 and 4.2. Then at my next 6 month PSA it went to 5.2 and my doctor knew it was time. He did another biopsy and one of twelve came back 20% positive with a Gleason of 3 + 3. My doctor sat down with my wife and I and explained all the options and I decided that surgery was the only one for me. Do I have any regrets waiting those four years, absolutely not. Fortunately everything is fine so far, my PSA's have been 0.01 and my side effects are minimal. Do I wish I had the balls to have waited another four years, ABSOLUTELY. Make no mistakes about it radical prostatectomy no matter how its done is MAJOR SURGERY and things will never be the same once its gone.

Second, it sounds to me like you and have a great relationship and you have made it through these difficult times for 18 years. You got to this point in your relationship together and you need to go forward into this together. There are no easy choices dealing with rotten disease and no matter what treatment option chooses will effect both of you and you need to be supportive to one another every inch of the way.

Good luck,

Rick

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare

I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I

ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I

could not decide whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go

sevirior. Or terminal. It is like watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

, I guess I'll chime in on this conversation too. I am 52, had first biopsy after spiking PSA (1.9 to 2.85 in a year) in February, "suspicious for prostate ca but not diagnostic." Had repeat biopsy 3 months later, this time 2/12 cores on R side positive for prostate ca, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 Gleason score, clinical stage T1c. Now I too had a slow growing cancer with all these options. But for me I just couldn't go with active surveillance. My father died of colon cancer in his 50's, my mother died of breast cancer in her 60's so I have strong family history of cancer. I would just worry myself every night if I knew I had a cancer growing in me, no matter how slowly it was growing. And like you say biopsies really are shots in the dark. Often when the surgical approach is chosen there is more cancer in the prostate than would have been predicted from the core

biopsy. My surgeon did say we could wait on the surgery for another 6 months with repeat PSA but I thought what for? I just wanted it out, and I knew the risks of incontinence and impotence. I had surgery 2 months ago, pathological stage was T2a, no signs of spread, first post-op PSA was .01. My incontinence is almost totally gone, alas I still have to use injections to have sex with wife, but since I had bilateral nerve sparing I'm hoping that will come back too. This is your husband's decision, but I have no regrets about having this surgery now. No one can really predict how fast a cancer will progress regardless of Gleason score or clinical stage. White wrote: , Sounds to me like we have two things going on here. First it sounds like you need to see another doctor. During the four years that we watched my hi grade pin turn to cancer I had two biopsy's and neither of them was pain full or bloody. Mr Dr. injected both side with lidocane and there was no pain so to speak. Was it something that I would do for pleasure on a Sunday afternoon, no, but it wasn't that bad. As for the blood, there was some in my semen for a couple of months but there was no discomfort associated with it and things returned to normal. During that four years we

watched my PSA every 6 months and it stayed between 3.4 and 4.2. Then at my next 6 month PSA it went to 5.2 and my doctor knew it was time. He did another biopsy and one of twelve came back 20% positive with a Gleason of 3 + 3. My doctor sat down with my wife and I and explained all the options and I decided that surgery was the only one for me. Do I have any regrets waiting those four years, absolutely not. Fortunately everything is fine so far, my PSA's have been 0.01 and my side effects are minimal. Do I wish I had the balls to have waited another four years, ABSOLUTELY. Make no mistakes about it radical prostatectomy no matter how its done is MAJOR SURGERY and things will never be the same once its gone. Second, it sounds to me like you and have a great relationship and you have made it through these difficult times for 18 years. You got to this point in your relationship together and you need to go forward

into this together. There are no easy choices dealing with rotten disease and no matter what treatment option chooses will effect both of you and you need to be supportive to one another every inch of the way. Good luck, Rick From: rachel_luv2003 <fun_luvin_1972hotmail>To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I

ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide

whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like

watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

, I guess I'll chime in on this conversation too. I am 52, had first biopsy after spiking PSA (1.9 to 2.85 in a year) in February, "suspicious for prostate ca but not diagnostic." Had repeat biopsy 3 months later, this time 2/12 cores on R side positive for prostate ca, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 Gleason score, clinical stage T1c. Now I too had a slow growing cancer with all these options. But for me I just couldn't go with active surveillance. My father died of colon cancer in his 50's, my mother died of breast cancer in her 60's so I have strong family history of cancer. I would just worry myself every night if I knew I had a cancer growing in me, no matter how slowly it was growing. And like you say biopsies really are shots in the dark. Often when the surgical approach is chosen there is more cancer in the prostate than would have been predicted from the core

biopsy. My surgeon did say we could wait on the surgery for another 6 months with repeat PSA but I thought what for? I just wanted it out, and I knew the risks of incontinence and impotence. I had surgery 2 months ago, pathological stage was T2a, no signs of spread, first post-op PSA was .01. My incontinence is almost totally gone, alas I still have to use injections to have sex with wife, but since I had bilateral nerve sparing I'm hoping that will come back too. This is your husband's decision, but I have no regrets about having this surgery now. No one can really predict how fast a cancer will progress regardless of Gleason score or clinical stage. White wrote: , Sounds to me like we have two things going on here. First it sounds like you need to see another doctor. During the four years that we watched my hi grade pin turn to cancer I had two biopsy's and neither of them was pain full or bloody. Mr Dr. injected both side with lidocane and there was no pain so to speak. Was it something that I would do for pleasure on a Sunday afternoon, no, but it wasn't that bad. As for the blood, there was some in my semen for a couple of months but there was no discomfort associated with it and things returned to normal. During that four years we

watched my PSA every 6 months and it stayed between 3.4 and 4.2. Then at my next 6 month PSA it went to 5.2 and my doctor knew it was time. He did another biopsy and one of twelve came back 20% positive with a Gleason of 3 + 3. My doctor sat down with my wife and I and explained all the options and I decided that surgery was the only one for me. Do I have any regrets waiting those four years, absolutely not. Fortunately everything is fine so far, my PSA's have been 0.01 and my side effects are minimal. Do I wish I had the balls to have waited another four years, ABSOLUTELY. Make no mistakes about it radical prostatectomy no matter how its done is MAJOR SURGERY and things will never be the same once its gone. Second, it sounds to me like you and have a great relationship and you have made it through these difficult times for 18 years. You got to this point in your relationship together and you need to go forward

into this together. There are no easy choices dealing with rotten disease and no matter what treatment option chooses will effect both of you and you need to be supportive to one another every inch of the way. Good luck, Rick From: rachel_luv2003 <fun_luvin_1972hotmail>To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I

ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide

whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like

watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

, I guess I'll chime in on this conversation too. I am 52, had first biopsy after spiking PSA (1.9 to 2.85 in a year) in February, "suspicious for prostate ca but not diagnostic." Had repeat biopsy 3 months later, this time 2/12 cores on R side positive for prostate ca, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 Gleason score, clinical stage T1c. Now I too had a slow growing cancer with all these options. But for me I just couldn't go with active surveillance. My father died of colon cancer in his 50's, my mother died of breast cancer in her 60's so I have strong family history of cancer. I would just worry myself every night if I knew I had a cancer growing in me, no matter how slowly it was growing. And like you say biopsies really are shots in the dark. Often when the surgical approach is chosen there is more cancer in the prostate than would have been predicted from the core

biopsy. My surgeon did say we could wait on the surgery for another 6 months with repeat PSA but I thought what for? I just wanted it out, and I knew the risks of incontinence and impotence. I had surgery 2 months ago, pathological stage was T2a, no signs of spread, first post-op PSA was .01. My incontinence is almost totally gone, alas I still have to use injections to have sex with wife, but since I had bilateral nerve sparing I'm hoping that will come back too. This is your husband's decision, but I have no regrets about having this surgery now. No one can really predict how fast a cancer will progress regardless of Gleason score or clinical stage. White wrote: , Sounds to me like we have two things going on here. First it sounds like you need to see another doctor. During the four years that we watched my hi grade pin turn to cancer I had two biopsy's and neither of them was pain full or bloody. Mr Dr. injected both side with lidocane and there was no pain so to speak. Was it something that I would do for pleasure on a Sunday afternoon, no, but it wasn't that bad. As for the blood, there was some in my semen for a couple of months but there was no discomfort associated with it and things returned to normal. During that four years we

watched my PSA every 6 months and it stayed between 3.4 and 4.2. Then at my next 6 month PSA it went to 5.2 and my doctor knew it was time. He did another biopsy and one of twelve came back 20% positive with a Gleason of 3 + 3. My doctor sat down with my wife and I and explained all the options and I decided that surgery was the only one for me. Do I have any regrets waiting those four years, absolutely not. Fortunately everything is fine so far, my PSA's have been 0.01 and my side effects are minimal. Do I wish I had the balls to have waited another four years, ABSOLUTELY. Make no mistakes about it radical prostatectomy no matter how its done is MAJOR SURGERY and things will never be the same once its gone. Second, it sounds to me like you and have a great relationship and you have made it through these difficult times for 18 years. You got to this point in your relationship together and you need to go forward

into this together. There are no easy choices dealing with rotten disease and no matter what treatment option chooses will effect both of you and you need to be supportive to one another every inch of the way. Good luck, Rick From: rachel_luv2003 <fun_luvin_1972hotmail>To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21:39 PMSubject: worst nightmare I was scared that the Dr we see today would try to talk my husband out of surgery.Guess what it came true. I am sitting here typing this and can barly breath. He kept saying that it is so small, there is so little, you are so young, it will probably never grow, if it does it will never effect you. He kept saying, "lets do another PSA and biopsy" to check again. Ok. What the @#$# is the dr looking for? A biopsy can give false negatives. He may not biopsy the exact are or spot the other dr did prior. And the pain was in after the biopsy and the blood. I cannot watch him go through that again. It is too hard. I have trouble sleeping at night. Dreams he is dead from this. Just to wait for more test results. Even a PSA can be false. I know you all will say, more tests the better, it is his body. Well after 18 years he is a part of me so in a sence it is my body as well. Ok, then after I

ran out of the room cause I could not listen anymore to him talking my husband into this. He said yes active servaliance and surgery are the only options. But he only was stressing the active sevailance one. Kept going on and on and on till I could not take it anymore. Anyways I basically RAN out of the room, to the social worker and had a nervious breakdown. To me active servailance is watching a person die slowly. I know, no one will agree. Of course my husband was eating it up and happy with the dr's talking. Anyways after 1/2 hour in the workers office I came out and there was . was ticked that I left, and did not stay and listen. said there was GOOD news. That he is doing another PSA (that could come back normal, but that means nothing to me). Then he said the dr said that with the cancer being so small .4mm, that the biopsy probably removed the cancer...... OOOOOOOHHHHHH MY G. I could not decide

whether to laugh or cry. So I walked away. Did NOT want to hear more of what Dr said. "biopsy probably removed the cancer". But what about the other 1.3mm? He did not mention that. What about the high grade PIN. That usually turns to cancer? Hummm no mention of either. but "biopsy probably removed the cancer". I cannot get that out of my head....."biopsy probably removed the cancer". WOW maybe all guys should have a biopsy as treatment or an option to remove cancer. A person diagnosed with cancer has cancer.. that is it...period. And I will not trust any tests this Dr does. Cause PSA can go up and down with cancer. ANd a biopsy of the prostate is like throwing darts at a pea in a pillow and hoping to hit it. That is why there are false negatives.SO now what. I can't do this. It is sooo hard. Especially when you do not trust the dr. I cannot just watch and wait for it to go sevirior. Or terminal. It is like

watching a flower die. But in the end said "I am PENCILED in for surgery in February". Ok is that an actual date or is it just a note for the month? What am I suppose to do? Honestly I just want to curl up somewhere and cry and scream. I cannot help how I feel. And I feel bad that I feel I cannot do this with him. But that is how I feel. Why would I want to just sit back and say.. ohh yippy "biopsy probably removed the cancer", lets just do another blood test and biopsy even though they could come back false negative...

[Guest guest]

You all have said great things. Some that made me cry but just for

love not fear. I see 2 sides of surgery with my message and Active

Servailiance. That will help. My husband read some of the posts last

night. I will have him read the rest.

BUT, here is an update...tada

Last night I calmed myself down by saying " Marla you do not have

nerviuos breakdowns for NO reason. I was confused and not looking at

the big picture as to why I was upset. So why am I feeling this way?? "

After asking myself that and writing a letter to . (we do that

cause sometimes your words are not really heard. And it is a good

comunication tool) I took a few deep breaths and REALLY started my

head going FULL speed, and open. This is what I realized:

Do I want him to have surgery?

Yes. Why for peace of mind for both of us and better odds. I don't

like to gamble and it is a gamble.

No. Why, I do not like seeing my husband in pain and I don't want to

have him inconstant or even somewhat or impotant, I like him this

way. This is also a gamble.

Do I want him to do active servaliance?

Yes. Well dauh, they would anyways. He cannot get in tomorrow and

they need to do further tests anyways. We may get better and more

clear results. He may not need the surgery.

No. I am scared and I don't like cancer. It spread. It kills. Plain

and simple. The biopsy could have just hit the tip of the cancer

cell. There could be more or bigger.

Ok. Well right back to square #1. What should we do/ choose. So what

else is wrong then with yesterday that sets me off so much?

Well The Dr. did not give ANY pros to surgery. Knocked it whenever

mentioned. (he is an urologist that can do surgery) So what is up?

He gave a 40% recovery from side effect of surgery. Ok 40% that

means 60% good. You do not pass at school with those grades. So if

that is HIS patients recovery rate. THAT IS BAD.

He also said that there is NO way to do nerve sparing. That thay

always get damaged. He does not do laprosopic and won't do it on

for this surgery. Says there is no difference in recovery rate,

or impotance rate or inconstance. And he says doing it laproscopic

will not save nerves. And there is NO dr that he would let do it on

. WHY DID HE SAY THAT?

OK HAHAHAHA. This is a really far fetched and BAD BAD statements. I

know from research and talking to a 36 year old that you can do

nerve sparing. And he has recovered just around a year. And research

any you all agree there is differences. SO why is he making these

statements and PUSHING servaliance?

Well a day after found out he had the cancer he wanted to

commit suicide and took 3 of my STRONG sleeping meds. I took the

bottle and locked it up. He was in deep depression. Later to find out

why? He had not taken his depression meds for a few days. So he was

not clearly thinking. Then the next day he talked to the 36 y/o and

felt MUCH better. Plus he took his meds.

Back to the WHY? I phoned the Dr.'s office out of fear and explained

waht happened the night before and she got us in FAST. But when she

told the Dr and sexual therapist, his appointment was made BEFORE he

takes patients. First thing in the morning. So the dr knew about his

attempt.

Looking back, it clicked. The dr said all those things because he

felt could not handle any change mentally. So he was NOT BIAS.

He did not really let us choose or speek. He wanted to control us and

change our minds after talking to the 36 y/o and the research. He was

going on what did. Not these are your choices. What do you

think, and Marla.

I also noticed during my visit before I had enough and left, he did

not reach to shake my hand or ask my name, or really include me. He

just focused on . Plus he had me leave during the exam AFTER

said he wanted me to be present. Those things play BIG on

trust. So right off the bat 5 mins into the meeting I was set off and

did not trust him. You need to trust the dr. whether you are the

patient or the spouce. Trust is BIG for me.

So when I sat down, calmed down, and started digging. I came up with.

We NEED a REAL opinion from a Dr that does not know about the

attempt. So I thaught, Dr. Ritchie (he did the biopsy and was the 1st

dr.) knows how our emotions are, understands why and I are like

glue. Includes me in the discussion. We all 3 sit arround his desk.

Not me off to the side. And we may not like his jekel and hyde, but

we TRUST him. And he listens and is bias.

So I mentioned all this to this morning. And he really

understood and saw what I saw. Even started to remember all the bad

things he said to surgery. Not giving it a plus at all. After that we

came up with:

#1.Let's etch-a-sketch yesterday right out of our heads. It did not

happen, we did not see him, he does not exsist.

#2. We have an appointment today with dr.ritchie and he knows nothing

about what happened. And he knows us and understand why I am the way

I am and same with . And he will be bias.

#3. Oviuosly we would not get to surgery for months, so during that

time lets do 2 PSA per month, meet once a month, do an MRI and or CT

scan.

#4. Ask if he can refer us to an Onocology Surgion. But only to get

his point of view on the test results. Here in Manitoba, the health

care system is cheep buggers. They do not want to do surgery if it

can be avoided. So the surgion may be against or for surgery. But

even if we decide AS, lets get a surgions point of view.

#5. What about other options, why is not a candidate? Dr.

ritchie said there are differnt types or radiation and surgery. So

some dr does the laproscopic.

Anyways sorry this was SOOO long but, just wanted you all that

replied see the BIG picture and let you know, we are not rushing into

this even though we (more me) are scared unless a PSA or test say

NOW. And thechnically evey man has done AS, cause you wait and have

further testing. Because there could be a change in either direction.

That is what AS is all about.

Again THANKS. You all have been a big help, bigger then you know.

MARLA & BRIAN

[Guest guest]

You all have said great things. Some that made me cry but just for

love not fear. I see 2 sides of surgery with my message and Active

Servailiance. That will help. My husband read some of the posts last

night. I will have him read the rest.

BUT, here is an update...tada

Last night I calmed myself down by saying " Marla you do not have

nerviuos breakdowns for NO reason. I was confused and not looking at

the big picture as to why I was upset. So why am I feeling this way?? "

After asking myself that and writing a letter to . (we do that

cause sometimes your words are not really heard. And it is a good

comunication tool) I took a few deep breaths and REALLY started my

head going FULL speed, and open. This is what I realized:

Do I want him to have surgery?

Yes. Why for peace of mind for both of us and better odds. I don't

like to gamble and it is a gamble.

No. Why, I do not like seeing my husband in pain and I don't want to

have him inconstant or even somewhat or impotant, I like him this

way. This is also a gamble.

Do I want him to do active servaliance?

Yes. Well dauh, they would anyways. He cannot get in tomorrow and

they need to do further tests anyways. We may get better and more

clear results. He may not need the surgery.

No. I am scared and I don't like cancer. It spread. It kills. Plain

and simple. The biopsy could have just hit the tip of the cancer

cell. There could be more or bigger.

Ok. Well right back to square #1. What should we do/ choose. So what

else is wrong then with yesterday that sets me off so much?

Well The Dr. did not give ANY pros to surgery. Knocked it whenever

mentioned. (he is an urologist that can do surgery) So what is up?

He gave a 40% recovery from side effect of surgery. Ok 40% that

means 60% good. You do not pass at school with those grades. So if

that is HIS patients recovery rate. THAT IS BAD.

He also said that there is NO way to do nerve sparing. That thay

always get damaged. He does not do laprosopic and won't do it on

for this surgery. Says there is no difference in recovery rate,

or impotance rate or inconstance. And he says doing it laproscopic

will not save nerves. And there is NO dr that he would let do it on

. WHY DID HE SAY THAT?

OK HAHAHAHA. This is a really far fetched and BAD BAD statements. I

know from research and talking to a 36 year old that you can do

nerve sparing. And he has recovered just around a year. And research

any you all agree there is differences. SO why is he making these

statements and PUSHING servaliance?

Well a day after found out he had the cancer he wanted to

commit suicide and took 3 of my STRONG sleeping meds. I took the

bottle and locked it up. He was in deep depression. Later to find out

why? He had not taken his depression meds for a few days. So he was

not clearly thinking. Then the next day he talked to the 36 y/o and

felt MUCH better. Plus he took his meds.

Back to the WHY? I phoned the Dr.'s office out of fear and explained

waht happened the night before and she got us in FAST. But when she

told the Dr and sexual therapist, his appointment was made BEFORE he

takes patients. First thing in the morning. So the dr knew about his

attempt.

Looking back, it clicked. The dr said all those things because he

felt could not handle any change mentally. So he was NOT BIAS.

He did not really let us choose or speek. He wanted to control us and

change our minds after talking to the 36 y/o and the research. He was

going on what did. Not these are your choices. What do you

think, and Marla.

I also noticed during my visit before I had enough and left, he did

not reach to shake my hand or ask my name, or really include me. He

just focused on . Plus he had me leave during the exam AFTER

said he wanted me to be present. Those things play BIG on

trust. So right off the bat 5 mins into the meeting I was set off and

did not trust him. You need to trust the dr. whether you are the

patient or the spouce. Trust is BIG for me.

So when I sat down, calmed down, and started digging. I came up with.

We NEED a REAL opinion from a Dr that does not know about the

attempt. So I thaught, Dr. Ritchie (he did the biopsy and was the 1st

dr.) knows how our emotions are, understands why and I are like

glue. Includes me in the discussion. We all 3 sit arround his desk.

Not me off to the side. And we may not like his jekel and hyde, but

we TRUST him. And he listens and is bias.

So I mentioned all this to this morning. And he really

understood and saw what I saw. Even started to remember all the bad

things he said to surgery. Not giving it a plus at all. After that we

came up with:

#1.Let's etch-a-sketch yesterday right out of our heads. It did not

happen, we did not see him, he does not exsist.

#2. We have an appointment today with dr.ritchie and he knows nothing

about what happened. And he knows us and understand why I am the way

I am and same with . And he will be bias.

#3. Oviuosly we would not get to surgery for months, so during that

time lets do 2 PSA per month, meet once a month, do an MRI and or CT

scan.

#4. Ask if he can refer us to an Onocology Surgion. But only to get

his point of view on the test results. Here in Manitoba, the health

care system is cheep buggers. They do not want to do surgery if it

can be avoided. So the surgion may be against or for surgery. But

even if we decide AS, lets get a surgions point of view.

#5. What about other options, why is not a candidate? Dr.

ritchie said there are differnt types or radiation and surgery. So

some dr does the laproscopic.

Anyways sorry this was SOOO long but, just wanted you all that

replied see the BIG picture and let you know, we are not rushing into

this even though we (more me) are scared unless a PSA or test say

NOW. And thechnically evey man has done AS, cause you wait and have

further testing. Because there could be a change in either direction.

That is what AS is all about.

Again THANKS. You all have been a big help, bigger then you know.

MARLA & BRIAN

[Guest guest]

OOOPS forgot to metion....

The dr that did the biopsy said " I could see a few grey areas. That I

boipsied "

YOU CANNOT SEE PINDROPS ON A BIOPSY. As that is what the dr we saw said

yestersay that the resuts say.

That also makes my suspicious about the whole appointment.