Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 I'm not totally positive, but I do believe that the body does react differently while awake than during sleep. Most people who want to test their blood sugars during the night, simply go to sleep and set their alarm clock for 3:00 a.m. and get up to test their bs's. If they are fine at 3:00 a.m. each day, then after a few days you could try testing at 3:30 a.m. or 4:00 a.m., etc., until you find out when or if the problem is occurring. Roxanne In a message dated 02/15/02 8:03:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, solsen@... writes: > I plan to test myself at various times during the night > to see if I am experiencing the dawn phenomenon > and when it is that my sugar is dropping low. I'm > wondering if this only occurs while the body is > asleep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Sharon wrote: > I plan to test myself at various times during the night > to see if I am experiencing the dawn phenomenon > and when it is that my sugar is dropping low. I'm > wondering if this only occurs while the body is > asleep? For example, normally I'm asleep > between 2 and 5 AM, but one night I decide to > stay awake and watch a movie during that time. > If I don't eat anything and my body is in basically > the same position on the couch as it would be on > the bed (flat, lots of pillows, and a cat on my > chest), would my sugar still drop the same way it > seems to when I sleep? Or does the actual > sleeping cause the dawn phenomenon? > Sharon, When you are asleep, your body releases hormones that are normally suppressed when you are awake. I have not read any articles that discuss this, so I would just be guessing to try and answer it. Of course, I'm never bashful about guessing, ) so here goes - I would suppose that if you are able to get drowsy enough to be teetering on the edge of consciousness (you know - that point where you are fighting to stay awake) you may be close enough to the sleep state to create some of the normal sleep conditions. Having said that, you still would not be hitting the " deep " sleep stage (unless you teetered over the edge) and that would most likely have an impact on your body's response. Another point to be made, you have already shown us that you are experiencing the Dawn Effect. The test results you have posted here have shown that your BGs rise steadily in the morning after rising (5:34 = 126, 7:52 = 146, 8:55 = 156). That is the Dawn Effect. What you would be checking by testing your BGs in the night t see if you go low is the " Somogyi " effect. This is a rebound of blood sugar from a low to a high. It is an automatic response of the body to protect itself from the harm of hypoglycemia. Although it can produce the same result as the Dawn Effect, high morning BGs, it is actually a separate and unrelated phenomenon. Here are some links that discuss the Somogyi Effect: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/part2/section-13.html http://nursing.about.com/library/1999/bldyk070501.htm http://www.therasense.com/educator/questions/pattern_1.htm These next two are Pet/Vet sites, but both have good graphs " showing " the effect. The phenomenon occurs in animals and humans alike, so there is relevance: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/sac/mededu/diabetes/somogyi.html http://www.petdiabetes.org/somogyi.htm Hope this helps! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Sharon wrote: > I plan to test myself at various times during the night > to see if I am experiencing the dawn phenomenon > and when it is that my sugar is dropping low. I'm > wondering if this only occurs while the body is > asleep? For example, normally I'm asleep > between 2 and 5 AM, but one night I decide to > stay awake and watch a movie during that time. > If I don't eat anything and my body is in basically > the same position on the couch as it would be on > the bed (flat, lots of pillows, and a cat on my > chest), would my sugar still drop the same way it > seems to when I sleep? Or does the actual > sleeping cause the dawn phenomenon? > Sharon, When you are asleep, your body releases hormones that are normally suppressed when you are awake. I have not read any articles that discuss this, so I would just be guessing to try and answer it. Of course, I'm never bashful about guessing, ) so here goes - I would suppose that if you are able to get drowsy enough to be teetering on the edge of consciousness (you know - that point where you are fighting to stay awake) you may be close enough to the sleep state to create some of the normal sleep conditions. Having said that, you still would not be hitting the " deep " sleep stage (unless you teetered over the edge) and that would most likely have an impact on your body's response. Another point to be made, you have already shown us that you are experiencing the Dawn Effect. The test results you have posted here have shown that your BGs rise steadily in the morning after rising (5:34 = 126, 7:52 = 146, 8:55 = 156). That is the Dawn Effect. What you would be checking by testing your BGs in the night t see if you go low is the " Somogyi " effect. This is a rebound of blood sugar from a low to a high. It is an automatic response of the body to protect itself from the harm of hypoglycemia. Although it can produce the same result as the Dawn Effect, high morning BGs, it is actually a separate and unrelated phenomenon. Here are some links that discuss the Somogyi Effect: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/part2/section-13.html http://nursing.about.com/library/1999/bldyk070501.htm http://www.therasense.com/educator/questions/pattern_1.htm These next two are Pet/Vet sites, but both have good graphs " showing " the effect. The phenomenon occurs in animals and humans alike, so there is relevance: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/sac/mededu/diabetes/somogyi.html http://www.petdiabetes.org/somogyi.htm Hope this helps! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Here are a couple of posts in explanation of the dawn rise that I have saved: From Sam (former member): Dawn Phenomena from Stop the Rollercoaster, Walsh More than half of diabetics have a morning rise in blood sugar. In type 1 diabetes it is triggered by a normal increase in growth hormone production during the early morning hours. Growth hormone causes the liver to release more sugar. In type 2 diabetes, a similar rise is triggered by insulin resistance and excess abdominal weight. When someone stops eating during the night, fatty acids from fat stores in the abdomen are released into the blood. The more fat the more released. The release of excess fat is often seen as high triglyceride levels. Some fats cause resistance to insulin. The liver interprets this excess fat and relative lack of insulin as a low blood sugar and starts making glucose. Meanwhile the muscle cells have become resistant to insulin cannot use as much of the extra glucose produced by the liver, and the blood sugar rises overnight. The livers production is often hard to shut off and causes high sugars all day. A medication called glucophage has the effect of suppressing this release. ---------------- From Tom the Actuary: Actually, this phenomenon is more than " common for a lot of diabetics; " it is, in fact, almost universal. There is a daily rhythm to our insulin sensitivity -- it is generally less in the morning (i.e., we are more insulin resistant in the morning) and greater in the afternoon/evening. Non-diabetics just cover this this by automatically producing more insulin when needed. Diet controlled type 2's, or those using oral meds, generally find that they cannot accommodate as many carbs in the morning as they can later in the day. Diabetics who use insulin find that a larger dose is needed in the morning to cover a given amount of carbohydrate. This is useful knowledge since it can help us plan efficient control techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Here are a couple of posts in explanation of the dawn rise that I have saved: From Sam (former member): Dawn Phenomena from Stop the Rollercoaster, Walsh More than half of diabetics have a morning rise in blood sugar. In type 1 diabetes it is triggered by a normal increase in growth hormone production during the early morning hours. Growth hormone causes the liver to release more sugar. In type 2 diabetes, a similar rise is triggered by insulin resistance and excess abdominal weight. When someone stops eating during the night, fatty acids from fat stores in the abdomen are released into the blood. The more fat the more released. The release of excess fat is often seen as high triglyceride levels. Some fats cause resistance to insulin. The liver interprets this excess fat and relative lack of insulin as a low blood sugar and starts making glucose. Meanwhile the muscle cells have become resistant to insulin cannot use as much of the extra glucose produced by the liver, and the blood sugar rises overnight. The livers production is often hard to shut off and causes high sugars all day. A medication called glucophage has the effect of suppressing this release. ---------------- From Tom the Actuary: Actually, this phenomenon is more than " common for a lot of diabetics; " it is, in fact, almost universal. There is a daily rhythm to our insulin sensitivity -- it is generally less in the morning (i.e., we are more insulin resistant in the morning) and greater in the afternoon/evening. Non-diabetics just cover this this by automatically producing more insulin when needed. Diet controlled type 2's, or those using oral meds, generally find that they cannot accommodate as many carbs in the morning as they can later in the day. Diabetics who use insulin find that a larger dose is needed in the morning to cover a given amount of carbohydrate. This is useful knowledge since it can help us plan efficient control techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Here are a couple of posts in explanation of the dawn rise that I have saved: From Sam (former member): Dawn Phenomena from Stop the Rollercoaster, Walsh More than half of diabetics have a morning rise in blood sugar. In type 1 diabetes it is triggered by a normal increase in growth hormone production during the early morning hours. Growth hormone causes the liver to release more sugar. In type 2 diabetes, a similar rise is triggered by insulin resistance and excess abdominal weight. When someone stops eating during the night, fatty acids from fat stores in the abdomen are released into the blood. The more fat the more released. The release of excess fat is often seen as high triglyceride levels. Some fats cause resistance to insulin. The liver interprets this excess fat and relative lack of insulin as a low blood sugar and starts making glucose. Meanwhile the muscle cells have become resistant to insulin cannot use as much of the extra glucose produced by the liver, and the blood sugar rises overnight. The livers production is often hard to shut off and causes high sugars all day. A medication called glucophage has the effect of suppressing this release. ---------------- From Tom the Actuary: Actually, this phenomenon is more than " common for a lot of diabetics; " it is, in fact, almost universal. There is a daily rhythm to our insulin sensitivity -- it is generally less in the morning (i.e., we are more insulin resistant in the morning) and greater in the afternoon/evening. Non-diabetics just cover this this by automatically producing more insulin when needed. Diet controlled type 2's, or those using oral meds, generally find that they cannot accommodate as many carbs in the morning as they can later in the day. Diabetics who use insulin find that a larger dose is needed in the morning to cover a given amount of carbohydrate. This is useful knowledge since it can help us plan efficient control techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't know if this may be a problem or not for you, but recently I noticed that my bs levels kept rising every day and even dosing extra Humalog did not seem to work like it use to do. I had been carrying around my Humalog in my shirt pocket, and when it finally ran out of insulin, I got a new one. When I started using the new refrigerated Humalog pen, my bs levels and insulin dose started working correctly again or nearly so. I figure my Humalog got hot and lost its potency, which is a common thing to happen if the Humalog gets over 86 degrees F. Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't know if this may be a problem or not for you, but recently I noticed that my bs levels kept rising every day and even dosing extra Humalog did not seem to work like it use to do. I had been carrying around my Humalog in my shirt pocket, and when it finally ran out of insulin, I got a new one. When I started using the new refrigerated Humalog pen, my bs levels and insulin dose started working correctly again or nearly so. I figure my Humalog got hot and lost its potency, which is a common thing to happen if the Humalog gets over 86 degrees F. Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't know if this may be a problem or not for you, but recently I noticed that my bs levels kept rising every day and even dosing extra Humalog did not seem to work like it use to do. I had been carrying around my Humalog in my shirt pocket, and when it finally ran out of insulin, I got a new one. When I started using the new refrigerated Humalog pen, my bs levels and insulin dose started working correctly again or nearly so. I figure my Humalog got hot and lost its potency, which is a common thing to happen if the Humalog gets over 86 degrees F. Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 That, Jen is the frustrating thing about type 1 diabetics especially.the same thing happens to meon occasioan. Lately, I have been running high in the morning, alough several weeks ago I increased the basal rate in my pumpso I would be loer in the morning. It worked for several weeks, but now I think I am going into a low during th night and having a rebound effect- so it is rising due to that. For instance, my BG last night was 95 at midnight. But, without eating anything, it was 280 this morning.I am going to decreased my basal rate by one-tenth of aunit between 2 AM and 5 AM. Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 That, Jen is the frustrating thing about type 1 diabetics especially.the same thing happens to meon occasioan. Lately, I have been running high in the morning, alough several weeks ago I increased the basal rate in my pumpso I would be loer in the morning. It worked for several weeks, but now I think I am going into a low during th night and having a rebound effect- so it is rising due to that. For instance, my BG last night was 95 at midnight. But, without eating anything, it was 280 this morning.I am going to decreased my basal rate by one-tenth of aunit between 2 AM and 5 AM. Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 That, Jen is the frustrating thing about type 1 diabetics especially.the same thing happens to meon occasioan. Lately, I have been running high in the morning, alough several weeks ago I increased the basal rate in my pumpso I would be loer in the morning. It worked for several weeks, but now I think I am going into a low during th night and having a rebound effect- so it is rising due to that. For instance, my BG last night was 95 at midnight. But, without eating anything, it was 280 this morning.I am going to decreased my basal rate by one-tenth of aunit between 2 AM and 5 AM. Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 good one Harry. I always change my bottles every month/30 days to make certain I have maximum potency. Dr. Bernstein recommends that so I went with it *grin*. Not that it could not be as potent past 30 days, or that it is even ruined, it just 100% in sures you have maximum potency all the time. It is, however, slightly wasteful so not ideal if on a fixed income. Regards, Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 good one Harry. I always change my bottles every month/30 days to make certain I have maximum potency. Dr. Bernstein recommends that so I went with it *grin*. Not that it could not be as potent past 30 days, or that it is even ruined, it just 100% in sures you have maximum potency all the time. It is, however, slightly wasteful so not ideal if on a fixed income. Regards, Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 good one Harry. I always change my bottles every month/30 days to make certain I have maximum potency. Dr. Bernstein recommends that so I went with it *grin*. Not that it could not be as potent past 30 days, or that it is even ruined, it just 100% in sures you have maximum potency all the time. It is, however, slightly wasteful so not ideal if on a fixed income. Regards, Dawn phenomenon >I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Yep, that's happened to me before, but usually when that happens I'll definitely notice it. Last time it happened I was in the high teens for a day or two no matter what I did, before I decided something wasn't right and switched to a new cartridge of Humalog, and that fixed things. It hasn't been too hot here, though, and I've made sure to keep the insulin in a cooler part of the house. Jen Dawn phenomenon > > >>I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >>different >> days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but >> there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are >> no >> other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. >> This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 >> even >> though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to >> covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more >> morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during >> the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly >> what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. >> >> It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but >> there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a >> reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at >> breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually >> works >> whether I'm high or not. >> >> Jen >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Yep, that's happened to me before, but usually when that happens I'll definitely notice it. Last time it happened I was in the high teens for a day or two no matter what I did, before I decided something wasn't right and switched to a new cartridge of Humalog, and that fixed things. It hasn't been too hot here, though, and I've made sure to keep the insulin in a cooler part of the house. Jen Dawn phenomenon > > >>I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >>different >> days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but >> there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are >> no >> other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. >> This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 >> even >> though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to >> covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more >> morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during >> the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly >> what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. >> >> It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but >> there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a >> reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at >> breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually >> works >> whether I'm high or not. >> >> Jen >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Yep, that's happened to me before, but usually when that happens I'll definitely notice it. Last time it happened I was in the high teens for a day or two no matter what I did, before I decided something wasn't right and switched to a new cartridge of Humalog, and that fixed things. It hasn't been too hot here, though, and I've made sure to keep the insulin in a cooler part of the house. Jen Dawn phenomenon > > >>I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on >>different >> days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but >> there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are >> no >> other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. >> This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 >> even >> though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to >> covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more >> morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during >> the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly >> what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. >> >> It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but >> there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a >> reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at >> breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually >> works >> whether I'm high or not. >> >> Jen >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 yes, it is juggle work Pat the dawn deal. I finally got it down but took some work. What you say is true... you can drop low and then bounce up high from your body spilling natural sugar to try to pull you up. Regards, Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 yes, it is juggle work Pat the dawn deal. I finally got it down but took some work. What you say is true... you can drop low and then bounce up high from your body spilling natural sugar to try to pull you up. Regards, Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 yes, it is juggle work Pat the dawn deal. I finally got it down but took some work. What you say is true... you can drop low and then bounce up high from your body spilling natural sugar to try to pull you up. Regards, Dawn phenomenon I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works whether I'm high or not. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 I've been going low at night and waking up low in the morning quite a bit lately so I just decreased my Lantus (I think this is probably why I'm getting more morning highs from the rebound). Last night I went to bed high at 15.9 because I messed up on the carb count at dinner, so the morning reading was actually down a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if I cut Lantus back more in the next few weeks. It's just the fact that it doesn't come down in the morning which is so frustrating! It is now 2:00 here and I decided to not eat lunch and see what happened, and it's now 6.9 (without any correction dose of Humalog). Maybe I need to decrease my isnulin-to-carb ratio in the morning. Jen Dawn phenomenon > > I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on > different > > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are > no > > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 > even > > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually > works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 For me, the " dawn phenomenon " is intermittent. I can go two weeks without ever observing it (or perhaps the nighttime NPH covers it sufficiently) and then there'll be a day where I note my before-breakfast reading is up a bit. But by " a bit " (and I'm not trying to blow my horn here), I mean abG reading of 114 mg/dl as opposed to, say, 99. I haven't noticed spikes like you seem to get in ages! Mike > I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 For me, the " dawn phenomenon " is intermittent. I can go two weeks without ever observing it (or perhaps the nighttime NPH covers it sufficiently) and then there'll be a day where I note my before-breakfast reading is up a bit. But by " a bit " (and I'm not trying to blow my horn here), I mean abG reading of 114 mg/dl as opposed to, say, 99. I haven't noticed spikes like you seem to get in ages! Mike > I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 For me, the " dawn phenomenon " is intermittent. I can go two weeks without ever observing it (or perhaps the nighttime NPH covers it sufficiently) and then there'll be a day where I note my before-breakfast reading is up a bit. But by " a bit " (and I'm not trying to blow my horn here), I mean abG reading of 114 mg/dl as opposed to, say, 99. I haven't noticed spikes like you seem to get in ages! Mike > I am wondering if the dawn phenomenon can be stronger or weaker on different > days. Usually if I am high in the morning I can get it down by lunch, but > there are some days, like today, when I eat the same things and there are no > other factors that are different that I can see, when I don't come down. > This morning I was 10.6 at breakfast and just now, at lunch, I was 10.8 even > though I gave extra insulin to correct it at breakfast in addition to > covering the carbs as I usually do. I have actually been getting more > morning highs in the past few weeks so maybe something has changed during > the night. In fact yesterday I was 10.8 in the morning and I did exactly > what I did today and at lunch I was 3.8. > > It is just strange that most mornings I'm high I am normal by lunch but > there's the odd day like today when it doesn't work and I can't find a > reason why. Very mysterious! I use a higher insulin-to-carb ratio at > breakfast as well than I do for the rest of the day, and this usually works > whether I'm high or not. > > Jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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