You won't believe what my father said to me!

[Guest guest]

I just cannot believe my father sometimes. He is a

professor...of psychology no less....and has a

long-standing habit of telling people, (especially me

it seems) how we should feel and act, and what we

should be doing with our lives.

Well, I was speaking with him late yesterday and told

him of my upcoming appointment today and how worried I

was, and how much I feared the doctor would tell me

that we should " give up " our quest for a biological

child. His response to me was: " Why are you upset

about this? It's totally irrational to be upset about

something that you have no control over, did not

cause, and can't do anything about! Move on with your

life! You have Hannah - you don't need another child

anyway. "

Can you believe it? My own father! I went on to try

to explain that my " life plan " had always included a

family of children not an only child to which he

answered: " Well, that is what you get for living in a

fantasy world Gwen, life isn't fair, you can't always

get what you want....deal with it. "

Very nice huh?....then I tried explaining to him how

much I want a sibling for Hannah and how I don't want

her to have to grow up alone and how sad it makes me

not to be able to give her that. His reply? " Well,

you just sit Hannah down and explain to her that your

pregnancy with her ruined your uterus and because of

that you can't have any more children. "

Oh THAT'S a good idea! I think I'll blame my

3-YEAR-OLD daughter for the fact that I can't have any

children! Laying a guilt-trip like that on a little

girl!? And he calls himself a psychologist! What an

A**hole!

He then went on to lecture me for a good 20 minutes

(in the middle of my workday I might add) about how

I've always been " emotionally indulgent " and " unable

to control " my emotions...and adds " You can choose how

you feel about this Gwen, you can decide there's

nothing you can do and be greatful for Hannah and be

happy, or you can sit around and feel sorry for

yourself for the rest of your life...it's your choice.

If you want to waste your life being sad about this I

suppose that's up to you. "

How dare he judge me!? How dare he tell me I have no

right to be sad! To mourn! To be angry!? Ooooh! I am

still so furious with him....(can you tell?!)

The thing that really galls me is that my mother was

in an accident about 9-1/2 years ago that has left her

permanently brain-damaged and unable to walk and my

father was/is a basket case. My sister and I

literally kept him alive for months as all he did was

cry and mope around in such a depression he wouldn't

even eat.

And he remains, to this day, so depressed about it

that he regularly calls me (as recently as last month)

IN TEARS about how he has no life because all he does

is take care of Mom and he can't take it anymore and

so on. He also started drinking after Mom's accident

and my sister and I are quite sure he has developed a

drinking problem but he won't admit it or get any

help.

So, let me ask you? Why is it ok for him to be sad

and mourn and not ME?! I asked him that and his reply

was that he had REASON to be sad and I did not.... " not

being able to have another child is not a tragedy

Gwen " was his actual response.

I cried for hours after talking to him....had to close

my door here at the office I was such a wreck. I

spoke with my sister who was very comforting and

called my father an " insensitive clod " and my husband

was great reminding me that my father had probably

already had a few drinks before speaking to me and was

just picking a fight (my father is one of those people

who, after a few drinks, will purposely start a

conversation about politics or religion just to upset

people....)and also reminded me that my father always

calls to apologize eventually, which is true.

When I finally ended the very hurtful conversation

with my Dad can you believe he actually said to me

" Call me tomorrow after your appointment, I'll be

interested in hearing what your doctor has to say. "

YEAH RIGHT! Like I'm going to call the person who

critcized me and called me irrational for 40 minutes

with news of my infertility, (good or bad). After the

screaming match he treated me to yesterday - I don't

think so.

From now on....no conversations with my father about

this issue as he obviously has no sympathy or

understanding or even support for us on this....

Sorry to babble on-and-on ladies...just still very

emotional about this. (But that's me....Ms.

" Emotionally Indulgent " Hassan!)

Gwen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Gwen,

It saddens me to hear about your father. No, you are not over emotional. You are totally normal.

My 2 cents for what it's worth and these are based on my expereinces but there is lots of speculation. Sorry if I am off the mark.

It sounds as if your father is still emotionally unable to deal with his loss, your mother. He has no control over the situation (and he sounds like a controlling person to begin with) and by telling you that you should be feeling a certain way he is re-establishing his control. He probably is not happy with what has happened to you and he probably wants you to be happy and satisfied with life. But, instead of communicating his true feelings he tells you what you should and should not feel. In this way he is trying to gain some control in his life.

He says " It's totally irrational to be upset about something that you have no control over, did not cause, and can't do anything about! Move on with yourlife! You have Hannah - you don't need another childanyway."

He wants you to feel this way, so he just said it in a very blunt, insensitive and hurtful way. He is upset (it sounds to me) at himself for being emotional about your mother (because he has no control) and he wants you to behave and think as he thinks that HE should behave and think. But, he doesn't behave and think this way, so he is mad at himself and is striking out at you. I know this is difficult to forgive, but I think you are hearing a very disturbed man strike out and he needs help. He needs to get in touch with his feelings and he needs to understand his loss and grieve appropriately.

It's hard to hear things like what your father said. One of the most problematic and hurtful things about our situation with Ashermans is that someone did this to us. Also, that this person didn't just have an impact on our immediate families, but all our extended families. What people fail to realize is that we are mourning for a loss too. The child, the granchild, the cousin, the sister, the brother, the neice, the nephew that will never be born. It affects our entire family. And just because the child was never born, it doesn't take the pain away. It still IS a loss.

My father is just the opposite. But, I have to say that he was similar to your father in many ways when I was younger. He is considered a very non-emotional, very logical and very rationale man (he is an engineer). But, he has gotten wiser and more sensitive in his old age. He is very emotional about not having another grandchild and he wants to know all the medical stuff associated with Ashermans. Everytime I go in for a procedure and a surgery he is right there wanting to know what happened. I guess he feels that he was a bad father to his kids and he is making up for it with his grandkids. Maybe your father should take note that he shouldn't feel like he needs to pound rational thoughts into your head. All it will do is alienate you. It is ok that you feel emotional about what you are going through and you will get through it, but in your own time. This is an evolutionary process, not a revolutionary one. Small steps, not big ones.

Your father says.... "You can choose howyou feel about this Gwen, you can decide there'snothing you can do and be greatful for Hannah and behappy, or you can sit around and feel sorry foryourself for the rest of your life...it's your choice.If you want to waste your life being sad about this Isuppose that's up to you."

He does have a point here, but his delivery is LOUSY! My husband has been known to do this sometimes too. Again, it's a control thing. He wants to help me so bad that he tells me how I should feel. He thinks that he is helping but it inflames me. What I tell my husband at times like this is....when I am hurting and emotional and/or depressed about something, I don't want a lecture I just want to be heard and held and hugged. And really don't really want your opinion! I just want to be heard and then eventually I always come around to his way of thinking. But, it takes time and I have to go through my process of dealing with the situation. How dare he judge me!? How dare he tell me I have noright to be sad! To mourn! To be angry!? Ooooh! I amstill so furious with him....(can you tell?!)

He doesn't want you to be sad so he says you shouldn't be sad. Again, a lousy insensitive way of telling you something that he feels. Again, he is striking out at you (trying to control you) because he doesn't have control himself and he feels lousy. And he doesn't want you to feel bad, sad or angry either. "The thing that really galls me is that my mother wasin an accident about 9-1/2 years ago that has left herpermanently brain-damaged and unable to walk...."

Gwen, I am so sorry to hear this.

"So, let me ask you? Why is it ok for him to be sadand mourn and not ME?! I asked him that and his replywas that he had REASON to be sad and I did not...."notbeing able to have another child is not a tragedyGwen" was his actual response."

He is wrong here. He obviously doesn't understand that we have a loss too. It's not the conventional loss that everyone thinks about, but it is very much a loss. We feel our loss every bit as profoundly as someone losing a close family memeber. And because your father doesn't, doesn't make it any less legitimate. Some compassion and understanding of your feelings from your father would be appropriate here.

>From now on....no conversations with my father aboutthis issue as he obviously has no sympathy orunderstanding or even support for us on this....I know that this is how you must feel, and this is the obvious gut reaction that any person would have. But, try doing the opposite. Try telling him your feelings and explaining to him in a calm non-emotional way that this is very important to you and that he can choose to treat this situation in the future with you in one of 2 ways...

1. Exclusionary: one way is for him to continue in his forceful way of communicating with you which will basically have the effect of cutting you out of his life and forever alienating you from him. This would make you exclude him from your problems.

2. The other way is inclusionary. This would require a behavioral change from your father. He would need to listen to you without casting judgement and try to listen and understand your problems. This would have the effect of you including him instead of excluding him.

Ask him to make the choice of which way he prefers to handle these situations with you in the future.

This way he is in control of his own destiny and future relations with you. You have to remember Gwen, you are not abnormal in the way you have been handling this. This is a very emotional time for us and we will get through it in our own time and with small steps. Try to communicate this to your Dad and tell him that he has points in what he says, just that his delivery is not good (it alienates you) and that you need to get to his way of thinking (some of his way of thinking, the part of not feeling sorry for yourself etc.) on your own time.

It's like telling someone who just lost their spouse, "you'll get over it, lot's of people get over it and remarry and they are just fine." Well this may be true, but they need to come to this realization in time and in small steps. Your Dad wants you to feel better NOW, and it just doesn't happen overnight. You can tell him I said so!

I hope this long winded explanation of my thoughts and specualtions help.

Good luck

[Guest guest]

Gwen,

It saddens me to hear about your father. No, you are not over emotional. You are totally normal.

My 2 cents for what it's worth and these are based on my expereinces but there is lots of speculation. Sorry if I am off the mark.

It sounds as if your father is still emotionally unable to deal with his loss, your mother. He has no control over the situation (and he sounds like a controlling person to begin with) and by telling you that you should be feeling a certain way he is re-establishing his control. He probably is not happy with what has happened to you and he probably wants you to be happy and satisfied with life. But, instead of communicating his true feelings he tells you what you should and should not feel. In this way he is trying to gain some control in his life.

He says " It's totally irrational to be upset about something that you have no control over, did not cause, and can't do anything about! Move on with yourlife! You have Hannah - you don't need another childanyway."

He wants you to feel this way, so he just said it in a very blunt, insensitive and hurtful way. He is upset (it sounds to me) at himself for being emotional about your mother (because he has no control) and he wants you to behave and think as he thinks that HE should behave and think. But, he doesn't behave and think this way, so he is mad at himself and is striking out at you. I know this is difficult to forgive, but I think you are hearing a very disturbed man strike out and he needs help. He needs to get in touch with his feelings and he needs to understand his loss and grieve appropriately.

It's hard to hear things like what your father said. One of the most problematic and hurtful things about our situation with Ashermans is that someone did this to us. Also, that this person didn't just have an impact on our immediate families, but all our extended families. What people fail to realize is that we are mourning for a loss too. The child, the granchild, the cousin, the sister, the brother, the neice, the nephew that will never be born. It affects our entire family. And just because the child was never born, it doesn't take the pain away. It still IS a loss.

My father is just the opposite. But, I have to say that he was similar to your father in many ways when I was younger. He is considered a very non-emotional, very logical and very rationale man (he is an engineer). But, he has gotten wiser and more sensitive in his old age. He is very emotional about not having another grandchild and he wants to know all the medical stuff associated with Ashermans. Everytime I go in for a procedure and a surgery he is right there wanting to know what happened. I guess he feels that he was a bad father to his kids and he is making up for it with his grandkids. Maybe your father should take note that he shouldn't feel like he needs to pound rational thoughts into your head. All it will do is alienate you. It is ok that you feel emotional about what you are going through and you will get through it, but in your own time. This is an evolutionary process, not a revolutionary one. Small steps, not big ones.

Your father says.... "You can choose howyou feel about this Gwen, you can decide there'snothing you can do and be greatful for Hannah and behappy, or you can sit around and feel sorry foryourself for the rest of your life...it's your choice.If you want to waste your life being sad about this Isuppose that's up to you."

He does have a point here, but his delivery is LOUSY! My husband has been known to do this sometimes too. Again, it's a control thing. He wants to help me so bad that he tells me how I should feel. He thinks that he is helping but it inflames me. What I tell my husband at times like this is....when I am hurting and emotional and/or depressed about something, I don't want a lecture I just want to be heard and held and hugged. And really don't really want your opinion! I just want to be heard and then eventually I always come around to his way of thinking. But, it takes time and I have to go through my process of dealing with the situation. How dare he judge me!? How dare he tell me I have noright to be sad! To mourn! To be angry!? Ooooh! I amstill so furious with him....(can you tell?!)

He doesn't want you to be sad so he says you shouldn't be sad. Again, a lousy insensitive way of telling you something that he feels. Again, he is striking out at you (trying to control you) because he doesn't have control himself and he feels lousy. And he doesn't want you to feel bad, sad or angry either. "The thing that really galls me is that my mother wasin an accident about 9-1/2 years ago that has left herpermanently brain-damaged and unable to walk...."

Gwen, I am so sorry to hear this.

"So, let me ask you? Why is it ok for him to be sadand mourn and not ME?! I asked him that and his replywas that he had REASON to be sad and I did not...."notbeing able to have another child is not a tragedyGwen" was his actual response."

He is wrong here. He obviously doesn't understand that we have a loss too. It's not the conventional loss that everyone thinks about, but it is very much a loss. We feel our loss every bit as profoundly as someone losing a close family memeber. And because your father doesn't, doesn't make it any less legitimate. Some compassion and understanding of your feelings from your father would be appropriate here.

>From now on....no conversations with my father aboutthis issue as he obviously has no sympathy orunderstanding or even support for us on this....I know that this is how you must feel, and this is the obvious gut reaction that any person would have. But, try doing the opposite. Try telling him your feelings and explaining to him in a calm non-emotional way that this is very important to you and that he can choose to treat this situation in the future with you in one of 2 ways...

1. Exclusionary: one way is for him to continue in his forceful way of communicating with you which will basically have the effect of cutting you out of his life and forever alienating you from him. This would make you exclude him from your problems.

2. The other way is inclusionary. This would require a behavioral change from your father. He would need to listen to you without casting judgement and try to listen and understand your problems. This would have the effect of you including him instead of excluding him.

Ask him to make the choice of which way he prefers to handle these situations with you in the future.

This way he is in control of his own destiny and future relations with you. You have to remember Gwen, you are not abnormal in the way you have been handling this. This is a very emotional time for us and we will get through it in our own time and with small steps. Try to communicate this to your Dad and tell him that he has points in what he says, just that his delivery is not good (it alienates you) and that you need to get to his way of thinking (some of his way of thinking, the part of not feeling sorry for yourself etc.) on your own time.

It's like telling someone who just lost their spouse, "you'll get over it, lot's of people get over it and remarry and they are just fine." Well this may be true, but they need to come to this realization in time and in small steps. Your Dad wants you to feel better NOW, and it just doesn't happen overnight. You can tell him I said so!

I hope this long winded explanation of my thoughts and specualtions help.

Good luck

[Guest guest]

Gwen,

It saddens me to hear about your father. No, you are not over emotional. You are totally normal.

My 2 cents for what it's worth and these are based on my expereinces but there is lots of speculation. Sorry if I am off the mark.

It sounds as if your father is still emotionally unable to deal with his loss, your mother. He has no control over the situation (and he sounds like a controlling person to begin with) and by telling you that you should be feeling a certain way he is re-establishing his control. He probably is not happy with what has happened to you and he probably wants you to be happy and satisfied with life. But, instead of communicating his true feelings he tells you what you should and should not feel. In this way he is trying to gain some control in his life.

He says " It's totally irrational to be upset about something that you have no control over, did not cause, and can't do anything about! Move on with yourlife! You have Hannah - you don't need another childanyway."

He wants you to feel this way, so he just said it in a very blunt, insensitive and hurtful way. He is upset (it sounds to me) at himself for being emotional about your mother (because he has no control) and he wants you to behave and think as he thinks that HE should behave and think. But, he doesn't behave and think this way, so he is mad at himself and is striking out at you. I know this is difficult to forgive, but I think you are hearing a very disturbed man strike out and he needs help. He needs to get in touch with his feelings and he needs to understand his loss and grieve appropriately.

It's hard to hear things like what your father said. One of the most problematic and hurtful things about our situation with Ashermans is that someone did this to us. Also, that this person didn't just have an impact on our immediate families, but all our extended families. What people fail to realize is that we are mourning for a loss too. The child, the granchild, the cousin, the sister, the brother, the neice, the nephew that will never be born. It affects our entire family. And just because the child was never born, it doesn't take the pain away. It still IS a loss.

My father is just the opposite. But, I have to say that he was similar to your father in many ways when I was younger. He is considered a very non-emotional, very logical and very rationale man (he is an engineer). But, he has gotten wiser and more sensitive in his old age. He is very emotional about not having another grandchild and he wants to know all the medical stuff associated with Ashermans. Everytime I go in for a procedure and a surgery he is right there wanting to know what happened. I guess he feels that he was a bad father to his kids and he is making up for it with his grandkids. Maybe your father should take note that he shouldn't feel like he needs to pound rational thoughts into your head. All it will do is alienate you. It is ok that you feel emotional about what you are going through and you will get through it, but in your own time. This is an evolutionary process, not a revolutionary one. Small steps, not big ones.

Your father says.... "You can choose howyou feel about this Gwen, you can decide there'snothing you can do and be greatful for Hannah and behappy, or you can sit around and feel sorry foryourself for the rest of your life...it's your choice.If you want to waste your life being sad about this Isuppose that's up to you."

He does have a point here, but his delivery is LOUSY! My husband has been known to do this sometimes too. Again, it's a control thing. He wants to help me so bad that he tells me how I should feel. He thinks that he is helping but it inflames me. What I tell my husband at times like this is....when I am hurting and emotional and/or depressed about something, I don't want a lecture I just want to be heard and held and hugged. And really don't really want your opinion! I just want to be heard and then eventually I always come around to his way of thinking. But, it takes time and I have to go through my process of dealing with the situation. How dare he judge me!? How dare he tell me I have noright to be sad! To mourn! To be angry!? Ooooh! I amstill so furious with him....(can you tell?!)

He doesn't want you to be sad so he says you shouldn't be sad. Again, a lousy insensitive way of telling you something that he feels. Again, he is striking out at you (trying to control you) because he doesn't have control himself and he feels lousy. And he doesn't want you to feel bad, sad or angry either. "The thing that really galls me is that my mother wasin an accident about 9-1/2 years ago that has left herpermanently brain-damaged and unable to walk...."

Gwen, I am so sorry to hear this.

"So, let me ask you? Why is it ok for him to be sadand mourn and not ME?! I asked him that and his replywas that he had REASON to be sad and I did not...."notbeing able to have another child is not a tragedyGwen" was his actual response."

He is wrong here. He obviously doesn't understand that we have a loss too. It's not the conventional loss that everyone thinks about, but it is very much a loss. We feel our loss every bit as profoundly as someone losing a close family memeber. And because your father doesn't, doesn't make it any less legitimate. Some compassion and understanding of your feelings from your father would be appropriate here.

>From now on....no conversations with my father aboutthis issue as he obviously has no sympathy orunderstanding or even support for us on this....I know that this is how you must feel, and this is the obvious gut reaction that any person would have. But, try doing the opposite. Try telling him your feelings and explaining to him in a calm non-emotional way that this is very important to you and that he can choose to treat this situation in the future with you in one of 2 ways...

1. Exclusionary: one way is for him to continue in his forceful way of communicating with you which will basically have the effect of cutting you out of his life and forever alienating you from him. This would make you exclude him from your problems.

2. The other way is inclusionary. This would require a behavioral change from your father. He would need to listen to you without casting judgement and try to listen and understand your problems. This would have the effect of you including him instead of excluding him.

Ask him to make the choice of which way he prefers to handle these situations with you in the future.

This way he is in control of his own destiny and future relations with you. You have to remember Gwen, you are not abnormal in the way you have been handling this. This is a very emotional time for us and we will get through it in our own time and with small steps. Try to communicate this to your Dad and tell him that he has points in what he says, just that his delivery is not good (it alienates you) and that you need to get to his way of thinking (some of his way of thinking, the part of not feeling sorry for yourself etc.) on your own time.

It's like telling someone who just lost their spouse, "you'll get over it, lot's of people get over it and remarry and they are just fine." Well this may be true, but they need to come to this realization in time and in small steps. Your Dad wants you to feel better NOW, and it just doesn't happen overnight. You can tell him I said so!

I hope this long winded explanation of my thoughts and specualtions help.

Good luck