Re: Topper Nutri-med natural thyroid versus Armour

[Guest guest]

Loriann,

The generic that I'm using is purchased by a friend when she visits

Mexico.. but you can also buy it online.... without a prescription...

several here can give you links.. you can also get Armour online, without

a prescription, also from overseas... you can legally purchase up to a 3

month supply for your own use. And you know that you can order your own

labs - without a doc? www.healthcheckusa.com look up your state and see

if there are any clinics in your area.. you can get the labs post your

numbers and ranges here and we'll all help you decipher.. none of us are

dependant on having to go through a doc anymore.. and for those of us

that just can't afford it... like me... I went for three years begging

left over pills off of friends because I didn't have the thousands that I

needed for a doc and labs.... Three years with no meds! and NO WORKING

THYROID because I had no money and could get no assistance!!!

Others here, I'm sure... will jump in with pharmacy links to help you

out... and we'll all help you with monitoring symptoms and adjusting

dosages.....

Topper ()

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:15:13 EST azippetydodaday@... writes:

> Hello Topper! I just read the post you referred to earlier. Oh my

> goodness

> you do know what you are talking about hon..I am so happy to hear

> this news. I

> didn't know where to turnn talking to a doctor would only make them

> run more

> tests...and I don't have any insurance under my 5,000 deductable.

> So I pay for

> small stuff out of pocket. what is the name of the pharmacy you buy

> the

> generic from? Or are you talking about your friend who went there

> and bought them

> on a visit? You are so informative...I appreciate you so much for

> sharing with

> me.

> Blessings,

> Loriann

[Guest guest]

Loriann,

The generic that I'm using is purchased by a friend when she visits

Mexico.. but you can also buy it online.... without a prescription...

several here can give you links.. you can also get Armour online, without

a prescription, also from overseas... you can legally purchase up to a 3

month supply for your own use. And you know that you can order your own

labs - without a doc? www.healthcheckusa.com look up your state and see

if there are any clinics in your area.. you can get the labs post your

numbers and ranges here and we'll all help you decipher.. none of us are

dependant on having to go through a doc anymore.. and for those of us

that just can't afford it... like me... I went for three years begging

left over pills off of friends because I didn't have the thousands that I

needed for a doc and labs.... Three years with no meds! and NO WORKING

THYROID because I had no money and could get no assistance!!!

Others here, I'm sure... will jump in with pharmacy links to help you

out... and we'll all help you with monitoring symptoms and adjusting

dosages.....

Topper ()

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:15:13 EST azippetydodaday@... writes:

> Hello Topper! I just read the post you referred to earlier. Oh my

> goodness

> you do know what you are talking about hon..I am so happy to hear

> this news. I

> didn't know where to turnn talking to a doctor would only make them

> run more

> tests...and I don't have any insurance under my 5,000 deductable.

> So I pay for

> small stuff out of pocket. what is the name of the pharmacy you buy

> the

> generic from? Or are you talking about your friend who went there

> and bought them

> on a visit? You are so informative...I appreciate you so much for

> sharing with

> me.

> Blessings,

> Loriann

[Guest guest]

Topper,

I didn't know that you could order the tests online without a doctor until

recently...I love the internet! How did we ever get along without it? But I

didn't know where to go...thanks so much for the web site and all of your incite

is so helpful! wish there wasn't a 3 month limit on the meds though cause it

is so much cheaper to buy in quantity.

Blessings,

Loriann

> Loriann,

>

> The generic that I'm using is purchased by a friend when she visits

> Mexico.. but you can also buy it online.... without a prescription...

> several here can give you links.. you can also get Armour online, without

> a prescription, also from overseas... you can legally purchase up to a 3

> month supply for your own use. And you know that you can order your own

> labs - without a doc? www.healthcheckusa.com look up your state and see

> if there are any clinics in your area.. you can get the labs post your

> numbers and ranges here and we'll all help you decipher.. none of us are

> dependant on having to go through a doc anymore.. and for those of us

> that just can't afford it... like me... I went for three years begging

> left over pills off of friends because I didn't have the thousands that I

> needed for a doc and labs.... Three years with no meds! and NO WORKING

> THYROID because I had no money and could get no assistance!!!

>

> Others here, I'm sure... will jump in with pharmacy links to help you

> out... and we'll all help you with monitoring symptoms and adjusting

> dosages.....

>

> Topper ()

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great Idea! If many people are using for personal use maybe they would send

out each bottle seperately. kind of like pooling the money. Who knows it's

worth a try! Can't hurt to ask!

Loriann

> I wish we could order in bulk and split orders.. Many of these meds are

> sold in 1,000 quantities... to order several bottles of those and split

> amount folks that are in the same general area would be fantastic.. but

> they won't allow that... it specifically says for 'personal' use.

>

> Rats!!!

>

> Topper ()

>

[Guest guest]

I doubt that we could do it legally.... but if sources and money are

restricted..... I choose to stay alive (and not go back to being a

sobbing lump in the corner).

The pharmaceutical companies are already having fits over all the money

that we are taking out of their pockets by ordering from folks other than

them... sorry, guys.. but I can't afford the thousands of dollars that it

would take for me to see a doc and get labs.. and then only get crap,

like Synthroid?? na uh.. not this kid.. If I'm gonna die from lack of

medication.. I'll go for a walk out side.. we'll be dipping below -20 F

tonight.... it wouldn't take long and wouldn't hurt one bit!

Topper ()

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:48:51 EST azippetydodaday@... writes:

> Great Idea! If many people are using for personal use maybe they

> would send

> out each bottle seperately. kind of like pooling the money. Who

> knows it's worth a try! Can't hurt to ask!

> Loriann

[Guest guest]

... If I'm gonna die from lack of

> medication.. I'll go for a walk out side.. we'll be dipping below -

20 F

> tonight.... it wouldn't take long and wouldn't hurt one bit!

>

> Topper ()

Arent we cheery this evening! Topper, I have Armour and you are

welcome to it if things get rough...I do not intend to run out

here. I'm going to find something to post that someone sent a

few months back about a cheap way to get Armour.

[Guest guest]

I have a good source now.. but if they pull glandulars or change to law

to disallow our purchase w/o a prescription.. A lot of us are going to be

in a big hurt....

I've been without meds.. for three years this last time.. Couldn't get

assistance from the state, none of the three counties that I've lived in

or the church that March of Dimes referred me to....

I was given several choices... I could get pregnant... then they'd take

care of me... I could become chemically dependant, then they would

help... I could get an STD and then they'd help... but since not having a

thyroid gland, and not being able to get meds is NOT life threatening...

I'm not eligible for anything. See, funds are short and it's needed for

people that really need help.

.... I was asked to please not drop dead on a city street... because the

city would be liable for my corpse.

No, I'm NOT kidding!

The lady that told me to get pregnant... she said that all I needed was a

note from a doctor with my due date and everything would be taken care

of .... When I made a comment - If I could afford to go to a doc to get a

pregnancy verification, I wouldn't be there begging for labs and thyroid

medication! I was called a smartass and asked to leave.

So.. here I am.. I've been self-medicating on my own... I have nice

shinny leg hairs to pet... I can walk without crutches ... without taking

anything away from street tramps or drug addicts or drunks.

.... I also have my bitter moments.... but I choose to go pet my shinny

leg hairs now and hope that glandulars medications are not pulled off the

market....

*wink*

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:22:16 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> Arent we cheery this evening! Topper, I have Armour and you are

> welcome to it if things get rough...I do not intend to run out

> here. I'm going to find something to post that someone sent a

> few months back about a cheap way to get Armour.

[Guest guest]

> ... I also have my bitter moments.... but I choose to go pet my

shinny

> leg hairs now and hope that glandulars medications are not pulled

off the

> market....

>

> *wink*

>

> Topper ()

I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get pulled....at

least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be and

we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as you

know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything else

illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people. But

there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to mexico to

come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing this

stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the cops

would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being ill

too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he felt

worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no longer

have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

[Guest guest]

It is a struggle. I don't want to do anything illegal.. doing that brings

up the cause and justification to tighten things, increasing regulation

and changing stuff.. making it a possibility that they will no longer

allow importation... that is not something that I'd want to be cause of

........

Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday.. you can't

imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been able to see

a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had for ten

years underdosed me....

Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with the help

of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer simply

exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of saying

thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a wondrous thing

to have back!

.... and I have these really pretty shinny leg hairs... the prettiest

ever!!! heheheheehehh

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:43:51 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get pulled....at

> least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be and

> we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as you

> know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything else

> illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people. But

> there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to mexico to

> come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

> OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

> prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing this

> stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the cops

> would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

> home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being ill

> too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he felt

> worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no longer

> have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

[Guest guest]

> Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday.. you

can't

> imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been able

to see

> a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had

for ten

> years underdosed me....

>

> Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with

the help

> of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer

simply

> exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of

saying

> thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a wondrous

thing

> to have back!

I can most certainly imagine...I was on armour thyroid from age 17-

23. from 1967 - 1973.....testing came into vogue..my old doctor died

(who obviously dx'd by symptoms and low temp)...my thyroid was ripped

from my hand RIGHT BEFORE I BECAME PREGNANT!..and I spent the next 20

years searching for a doctor, an endo, anyone who would prescribe for

me on the basis of symptoms...succumbed to chronic fatigue, RA,

severe hypoglycemia, adrenal exhaustion (that led me to mega dosing

with vitamins from my twenties on)...I could write several volumes of

what all I went thru, all the inane idiots I talked to, all the

begging I did, ad naseum...it took me from age 23 to age 43 to

finally find a doctor who would prescibe Armour for me. I have a few

of my old tests...and my TSH was anywhere 3.7 - to 59 during those

years...I spent thousands of dollars we didn't really have in order

to get what I knew I needed . It's a sucky thing...but this is why I

now do what I can for people..because I would not wish that one

anyone...and I know that when you feel your worst, you can't even

begin to help yourself...the brain fog too bad, life too

overwhelming, the energy not there at all.

[Guest guest]

Isn't it wonderful? I know that self-medicating is a touchy

thing...and that it makes many uncomfortable...but if the choice is

between self-medicating and staying sick, I choose self-medicating.

You only get one life...

Gentle

> It is a struggle. I don't want to do anything illegal.. doing that

brings

> up the cause and justification to tighten things, increasing

regulation

> and changing stuff.. making it a possibility that they will no

longer

> allow importation... that is not something that I'd want to be

cause of

> .......

>

> Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday.. you

can't

> imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been able

to see

> a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had

for ten

> years underdosed me....

>

> Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with

the help

> of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer

simply

> exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of

saying

> thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a wondrous

thing

> to have back!

>

> ... and I have these really pretty shinny leg hairs... the prettiest

> ever!!! heheheheehehh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:43:51 -0000 " astrodiana " <Astrodiana@c...>

> writes:

> > I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get pulled....at

> > least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be

and

> > we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as you

> > know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything

else

> > illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people.

But

> > there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to mexico

to

> > come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

> > OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

> > prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing this

> > stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the

cops

> > would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

> > home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being ill

> > too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he

felt

> > worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no

longer

> > have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

[Guest guest]

Isn't it wonderful? I know that self-medicating is a touchy

thing...and that it makes many uncomfortable...but if the choice is

between self-medicating and staying sick, I choose self-medicating.

You only get one life...

Gentle

> It is a struggle. I don't want to do anything illegal.. doing that

brings

> up the cause and justification to tighten things, increasing

regulation

> and changing stuff.. making it a possibility that they will no

longer

> allow importation... that is not something that I'd want to be

cause of

> .......

>

> Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday.. you

can't

> imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been able

to see

> a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had

for ten

> years underdosed me....

>

> Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with

the help

> of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer

simply

> exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of

saying

> thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a wondrous

thing

> to have back!

>

> ... and I have these really pretty shinny leg hairs... the prettiest

> ever!!! heheheheehehh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:43:51 -0000 " astrodiana " <Astrodiana@c...>

> writes:

> > I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get pulled....at

> > least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be

and

> > we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as you

> > know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything

else

> > illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people.

But

> > there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to mexico

to

> > come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

> > OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

> > prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing this

> > stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the

cops

> > would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

> > home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being ill

> > too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he

felt

> > worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no

longer

> > have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

[Guest guest]

The question that comes to mind from your post is not whether or not there are

people out there who are self-medicating and are still alive, but is there

anyone out there who can attest to self-medicating and dying? Just a thought.

Joy

Isn't it wonderful? I know that self-medicating is a touchy

thing...and that it makes many uncomfortable...but if the choice is

between self-medicating and staying sick, I choose self-medicating.

You only get one life...

Gentle

> It is a struggle. I don't want to do anything illegal.. doing that

brings

> up the cause and justification to tighten things, increasing

regulation

> and changing stuff.. making it a possibility that they will no

longer

> allow importation... that is not something that I'd want to be

cause of

> .......

>

> Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday.. you

can't

> imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been able

to see

> a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had

for ten

> years underdosed me....

>

> Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with

the help

> of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer

simply

> exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of

saying

> thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a wondrous

thing

> to have back!

>

> ... and I have these really pretty shinny leg hairs... the prettiest

> ever!!! heheheheehehh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:43:51 -0000 " astrodiana " <Astrodiana@c...>

> writes:

> > I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get pulled....at

> > least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be

and

> > we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as you

> > know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything

else

> > illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people.

But

> > there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to mexico

to

> > come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

> > OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

> > prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing this

> > stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the

cops

> > would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

> > home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being ill

> > too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he

felt

> > worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no

longer

> > have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Joy did you mean to be funny? I'm LOL! They died and now they can

attest to it! That's like a local lawyer commercial..... " Have you been

injured or killed in an automobile accident? Call ___ & ____ for a free

consultation " I'd never hire a lawyer with grammar like that! But I

would hire one who'd ask the opposition to show me an expample of

someone dying and testifying to it.

DK

Re: Topper Nutri-med natural thyroid

versus Armour

The question that comes to mind from your post is not whether or not

there are people out there who are self-medicating and are still alive,

but is there anyone out there who can attest to self-medicating and

dying? Just a thought.

Joy

[Guest guest]

> The question that comes to mind from your post is not whether or

not there are people out there who are self-medicating and are still

alive, but is there anyone out there who can attest to self-

medicating and dying? Just a thought.

>

> Joy

I'll ask around...LOL

[Guest guest]

That's true! I would love to know in general what the dangers

are...what I mean is, why on earth are so many doctors

undermedicating their patients (like 40% I read). Is the danger of

transient slight hyperthyroidism so terrible, that it must be

avoided at all costs even if that means undermedicating most patients?

I read a recent snippet from an article in a medical journal that

said basically, no need to start out with teeny doses unless your

patient has signs of current heart disease (angina, etc.) because for

patients with relatively healthy hearts, no damage is done by

starting out at an effective dose instead of an ineffective one and

building slowly.

I have heard that you can have an increased heart rate and palps, but

that those generally discontinue once you discontinue (or reduce) the

med. I HAVE had those symptoms, NOT from my thyroid supplements, but

rather from " approved " medicines given to me from doctors -

Amitryptaline (Elavil), medicine given to me for bouts of asthma

(bronchitis-induced asthma, generally I don't have it), and

decongestant medicine given to me by doctors when I had bronchitis

and such.

I understand, any time you have increased heartrate or such you can

die of a heart attack. I could have died of a heart attack when the

docs gave me asthma medicine, cold pills and Elavil. But I didn't.

And it seems to me, that maybe those patients who experience a short

bit of hyperthyroidism on the way to the " perfect dose " so to speak,

might survive it too. But I don't know for sure. I do know that I

read somewhere that even subclinical hyperthyroidism can lead

to...what's that word where the heart loses its rhythm? I can't

remember. But it's serious. Can lead to death. But I don't know

how often that happens, as compared to the non-hyperthyroid

population. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the biggest danger of

self-medicating seems to be that I might get the dose wrong and make

myself temporarily, slightly hyperthyroid. And to be honest I am not

able to figure out exactly WHAT risk is associated with that. I do

not know how many people die from that sort of thing. I don't have a

study that says, " out of 100 people who are subclinically or overtly

hyperthyroid, 25 will die within the first month of being

hyperthyroid... " or something like that.

I read stuff by doctors like Dr. Lowe and others, who seem to say

that the dangers of being temporarily hyperthyroid are no worse than

the dangers presented by cold pills and other drugs that can make

your heart go nuts for awhile, and that the answer in both cases is

stop taking it or reduce the dose. That made sense to me when I read

it.

So I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am

monitoring myself daily to make sure I do not develop signs of

hyperthyroidism. Checking my hands for tremors (which I had,

terribly, back when I was on wellbutrin but the docs didn't think it

mattered), making sure I don't have loose stools, checking basal temp

and resting pulse rate once per day. Looking for signs of headache

or sweating that is inappropriate for the situation, or feeling warm

when I should not be feeling warm. I don't THINK that I will become

hyperthyroid, but I don't know for certain.

On the other hand, I don't dare just not treat my hypothyroidism. I

have elevated cholesterol levels, my Mom had a heart attack in her

early 40's (the same age I am now) (probably due to her untreated

hypothyroidism) and I don't want to go the same route she did. She

had a series of THREE heart attacks within a few days and was lucky

she lived. She was NOT overweight, did NOT have high blood pressure,

etc. Her worst " sin " was that she was very sedentary - because she

was hypo, probably. My biggest fear with NOT treating my hypo is

that I will die of a heart attack, and my biggest fear of TREATING my

hypo is that I will die of a heart attack. I feel I am taking

somewhat of a risk, but felt very reassured on the advice of my

retired gynecologist friend, who said that anyone taking low doses

(less than 3 grains) was unlikely to cause great problems in the body

because of the body's ability to change it's own thyroid production

to reflect the total amount in the system. You take some thyroid you

don't need (small amount) the body slows down it's own production a

bit. The problem comes when you take more than the body can

compensate for, and it seems to me maybe different bodies are

different in what they can compensate for.

Anyway, after literally years of thinking this over and fighting with

the Army doctors, I finally decided the best course of action (for

me) was to try a low dose of thyroid and monitor myself religiously

for any symptoms of hyperthyroidism. I felt by doing that, I would

hopefully avoid the risks associated with hypo or hyper.

Although I still hope that maybe my plan will work, to go to the Army

docs with an empty bottle of Armour and say, " doing great on this,

refill please? "

Gentle

Does anyone have any statistics?

> > It is a struggle. I don't want to do anything illegal.. doing

that

> brings

> > up the cause and justification to tighten things, increasing

> regulation

> > and changing stuff.. making it a possibility that they will no

> longer

> > allow importation... that is not something that I'd want to be

> cause of

> > .......

> >

> > Being back on meds.. becoming stronger and healthier everyday..

you

> can't

> > imagine... I was without any meds for 3 years!! I've not been

able

> to see

> > a doc since May of '97.. and he underdosed me.... Every doc I had

> for ten

> > years underdosed me....

> >

> > Now I self-medicate.. and learned how to care for my self.. with

> the help

> > of some VERY VERY special people.. I now have LIFE and no longer

> simply

> > exist... Now.. I hope that I am of help to others... my way of

> saying

> > thanks to all those that have helped me... Life.. it is a

wondrous

> thing

> > to have back!

> >

> > ... and I have these really pretty shinny leg hairs... the

prettiest

> > ever!!! heheheheehehh

> >

> > Topper ()

> >

> > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:43:51 -0000 " astrodiana " <Astrodiana@c...>

> > writes:

> > > I am confident nothing (glandulars) is going to get

pulled....at

> > > least not all of it, even if some from certain sources would be

> and

> > > we need to keep the offshores purchases close to the vest (as

you

> > > know) and not come up with ideas to buy in bulk or do anything

> else

> > > illegal because that's when it could all fall apart for people.

> But

> > > there will always be ways...even whenever someone goes to

mexico

> to

> > > come back with as much as they can..you can walk in and buy

> > > OTC...then we just have to unite...although I get

> > > prescriptions...but - I have gotten pretty good at mailing

this

> > > stuff to people who need it..LOL at first, I was paranoid the

> cops

> > > would show up at my house...LOL My son is 37 and living at

> > > home...things are tough enough in this economy wihtout being

ill

> > > too. I know it wasn't a picnic for him being here either..he

> felt

> > > worthless, but at least now he's got a good doctor (who I no

> longer

> > > have to pay, because he has insurance) and a good job.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying of a heart

attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

Lynda (in the UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: gentleone772002

I understand, any time you have increased heartrate or such you can

die of a heart attack. I could have died of a heart attack when the

docs gave me asthma medicine, cold pills and Elavil. But I didn't.

[Guest guest]

personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying of a heart

attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

Lynda (in the UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: gentleone772002

I understand, any time you have increased heartrate or such you can

die of a heart attack. I could have died of a heart attack when the

docs gave me asthma medicine, cold pills and Elavil. But I didn't.

[Guest guest]

> personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying

of a heart attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

> Lynda (in the UK)

In addition have read many times that untreated hypothyroidism leads

to heart disease..don't forget - proper levels of thyroid hormone -

whether natural or supplemented - lowers cholesterol levels...

[Guest guest]

> personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying

of a heart attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

> Lynda (in the UK)

In addition have read many times that untreated hypothyroidism leads

to heart disease..don't forget - proper levels of thyroid hormone -

whether natural or supplemented - lowers cholesterol levels...

[Guest guest]

Personal opinion here... that happens to be shared by a few folks....

Synthroid Nazi's is a term used by some to describe docs that go ONLY by

'in range' TSH and prescribe minimalistic doses of Synthroid (synthetic

T4 only meds)

Hypo Thyroidism is referred to by some as a 'Bread and Butter disease'

Why?

It's gonna make you puke....

Because it can take a hypothyroid person YEARS to die a slow and

agonizing death and when then do die it's from heart failure or other

complications of the hypothyroidism that are not linked to lack of

medication or improper treatment, but labeled as:

Old Age

Natural Causes

Malnutrition/malabsorbtion bowel syndromes

Obesity

Heart Conditions

Mental deterioration linked to old age....

everything but what it really is.... the longer a patient can be kept

borderline on an inadequate dose of thyroid the more the will come back

for office visits ($$$$) labs ($$$$$) and prescriptions ($$$$) BUT

because of the myriad of symptoms the patient is just left hanging with

diagnoses of

'it's all in your head'

Get off your lazy butt and exercise

improve your diet

you're just getting old

it's natural

Be an adult and quit making excuses.

And we, feeling like crap, not thinking clearly (either from the pain,

the brain fog or having been called a blithering idiot or whiner for so

many years) just don't fight.. we take our token dose and let the years

go by and get sicker and sicker and sicker... We change docs that call us

trouble makers, smart asses, stupid, FAT, lazy and irresponsible... AND

STILL WILL NOT ADDRESS our symptoms or the underlying cause for those

symptoms or why the become more and more as time goes on.

I was low grade hyper, for as near as my endo and I could figure.. from

puberty on... I was in my thirties when I went into thyroid storm and was

there for more then a year.... and was still in hyperactive state after

the RAI until the excess hormone was used up in my system. I was hypo,

totally bottomed out before they started me on meds.. My body was so

messed up at that point that I got physically ill, nauseous, headaches,

shakes all kinds of fun stuff from taking just a small dose of thyroid.

It took two years to move me up from nothing to 200 mcg a day.... and no

one every took me higher than that.. but as years went by I went down

hill....

I could no longer do the jobs that I'd been doing all my life.. too

physical. So as each company down sized or laid off or whatever fancy

word they used... the job I sought would be less physical than the last..

until I was all the way to a total sit down job... From a swamp stomper

to a desk jockey that needed crutches to walk in just ten years.

Three years later.... I self medicating. Haven't see a doc since May of

'97. Started using OTC natural thyroid, now a generic. I'm still

struggling. I'm not 'normal' yet... but I've seen wondrous improvements

in my body, my health and my mind/attitude/self in just these last 18

months.

In 18 months. Handling my own dosing, based on symptom observation. I now

feel better than I have since BEFORE my RAI.

I am in a growth mode. I improve daily. From week to week, month to month

I can list improvements. During the 10 years I was under a doctors care I

lost something.. from month to month I got worse. As the years passed I

gave up all of my hobbies, my choice of career and lost my home. I lost

most of my friends.......

Choices: Doctors care, regular labs, prescriptions (money not an issue in

this example) for Synthroid OR self medicate, based on symptom

observation and having to find sources of Natural thyroid on my own.

Ummmmmmmmmm do I have to think about it? Nope... not for the time is

takes to type a key on this keyboard... I have done better on my own..

from as sick as I was, in just 18 months then all those docs did with

their labs and their education in 10 years.

Do I fear the dangers of hyper? Nope. I know what to watch for... I can

back off on the meds and come back into a safe range in just a week or

two (I just did it when I got over confident and increased my dose higher

than I KNEW I should). How many of you, that are seeing good docs, we'll

ignore those that are bad) can get in to the doc to get labs to verify a

mild hyper state, get the results back and decrease a dosage in just a

day or two?

I made the judgement call that I was hyper based on basals and symptom

observation and simply reduced the dosage immediately. I didn't even have

to call up on the phone and try to book an appointment....

After reducing the dosage I watched my basals and observed symptoms and

when my body told me it was time. I started to increase my dosage back up

to by pre [increase that cause the hyper] state... Didn't have to make an

appointment to wait for labs or anything... my body said it was time and

I did it...

So this whole hullabaloo that I just went through...... was about a

month.. from recognizing the hyper state... to slowing the meds... to

going mildly hyper to bring meds back up to my sweet spot....

A doc... maybe a week to get in... a week to get the labs... adjust the

dose... two weeks to reduce to hypo... then a week to get in, another

week for the labs... get the results.. then the doc is gun shy and won't

up enough tells you take less to avoid the situation ever happening

again... get stuck with not enough meds and stay low grade hyper....

So... 6 to 8 weeks just to be shorted on meds.. and now feeling

miserable....

I'm a serious fan of an educated person with a good support group and

practical common sense taking charge of their own health.. We can do a

better job than the doc who is rubbing his hands together as you are

walking out the door with your new prescriptions for 50 mcg of Synthroid,

an antidepressant, a pain reliever, a diet pill and a list of NO NO

foods... See, you don't hear him singing to him self " I just earned

enough more perk points on this one to do the Hawaii trip for a full

month this year! " You're too busy.. limping on your bad foot hoping that

you can make it out to the car before back gives out... then you start

wondering what in the world there is left to eat in the world but shrug

that off because no matter how little you eat your just gonna get fatter

anyway. AND now you have to tell everyone that the doc said your were

just fine but gave you a bunch of pills to make you feel a little bit

better anyway....

When you wake up three days later you still feel exhausted from the trip

to the doctor but crawl out of bed anyway. You have to get more of the

pills that doc said that would help you to feel better, even though he

said that everything was normal and it's all in your head.

I did it again... my soap box... sorry.. it just got to me again....

One trailing thought.. My greatest fear of heart failure was not during

hyper storm (160 beats per minute at rest). Was not the time after RAI

while waiting for my body to slow down.. It wasn't even during this

recent hyper phase when I went a bit too high on my meds, it was after

being so hypo that I got winded and my heart raced when I got up to walk

fifteen feet, on crutches, to go take a pee. I afraid that I would die

from getting up to go pee.

Topper () *14 years post RAI, now happily self medicating and

feeling better than 15 years ago!*

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:41:21 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> That's true! I would love to know in general what the dangers

> are...what I mean is, why on earth are so many doctors

> undermedicating their patients (like 40% I read). Is the danger of

> transient slight hyperthyroidism so terrible, that it must be

> avoided at all costs even if that means undermedicating most

> patients?

> I read a recent snippet from an article in a medical journal that

> said basically, no need to start out with teeny doses unless your

> patient has signs of current heart disease (angina, etc.) because

> for

> patients with relatively healthy hearts, no damage is done by

> starting out at an effective dose instead of an ineffective one and

> building slowly.

> I have heard that you can have an increased heart rate and palps,

> but

> that those generally discontinue once you discontinue (or reduce)

> the

> med. I HAVE had those symptoms, NOT from my thyroid supplements,

> but

> rather from " approved " medicines given to me from doctors -

> Amitryptaline (Elavil), medicine given to me for bouts of asthma

> (bronchitis-induced asthma, generally I don't have it), and

> decongestant medicine given to me by doctors when I had bronchitis

> and such.

> I understand, any time you have increased heartrate or such you can

> die of a heart attack. I could have died of a heart attack when the

> docs gave me asthma medicine, cold pills and Elavil. But I didn't.

> And it seems to me, that maybe those patients who experience a short

> bit of hyperthyroidism on the way to the " perfect dose " so to speak,

> might survive it too. But I don't know for sure. I do know that I

> read somewhere that even subclinical hyperthyroidism can lead

> to...what's that word where the heart loses its rhythm? I can't

> remember. But it's serious. Can lead to death. But I don't know

> how often that happens, as compared to the non-hyperthyroid

> population. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the biggest danger

> of

> self-medicating seems to be that I might get the dose wrong and make

> myself temporarily, slightly hyperthyroid. And to be honest I am not

> able to figure out exactly WHAT risk is associated with that. I do

> not know how many people die from that sort of thing. I don't have

> a

> study that says, " out of 100 people who are subclinically or overtly

> hyperthyroid, 25 will die within the first month of being

> hyperthyroid... " or something like that.

> I read stuff by doctors like Dr. Lowe and others, who seem to say

> that the dangers of being temporarily hyperthyroid are no worse than

> the dangers presented by cold pills and other drugs that can make

> your heart go nuts for awhile, and that the answer in both cases is

> stop taking it or reduce the dose. That made sense to me when I

> read it.

>

> So I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am

> monitoring myself daily to make sure I do not develop signs of

> hyperthyroidism. Checking my hands for tremors (which I had,

> terribly, back when I was on wellbutrin but the docs didn't think it

>

> mattered), making sure I don't have loose stools, checking basal

> temp

> and resting pulse rate once per day. Looking for signs of headache

> or sweating that is inappropriate for the situation, or feeling warm

> when I should not be feeling warm. I don't THINK that I will become

> hyperthyroid, but I don't know for certain.

> On the other hand, I don't dare just not treat my hypothyroidism. I

> have elevated cholesterol levels, my Mom had a heart attack in her

> early 40's (the same age I am now) (probably due to her untreated

> hypothyroidism) and I don't want to go the same route she did. She

> had a series of THREE heart attacks within a few days and was lucky

> she lived. She was NOT overweight, did NOT have high blood

> pressure,

> etc. Her worst " sin " was that she was very sedentary - because she

> was hypo, probably. My biggest fear with NOT treating my hypo is

> that I will die of a heart attack, and my biggest fear of TREATING

> my hypo is that I will die of a heart attack. I feel I am taking

> somewhat of a risk, but felt very reassured on the advice of my

> retired gynecologist friend, who said that anyone taking low doses

> (less than 3 grains) was unlikely to cause great problems in the

> body

> because of the body's ability to change it's own thyroid production

> to reflect the total amount in the system. You take some thyroid you

> don't need (small amount) the body slows down it's own production a

> bit. The problem comes when you take more than the body can

> compensate for, and it seems to me maybe different bodies are

> different in what they can compensate for.

> Anyway, after literally years of thinking this over and fighting with

> the Army doctors, I finally decided the best course of action (for

> me) was to try a low dose of thyroid and monitor myself religiously

> for any symptoms of hyperthyroidism. I felt by doing that, I would

> hopefully avoid the risks associated with hypo or hyper.

> Although I still hope that maybe my plan will work, to go to the Army

> docs with an empty bottle of Armour and say, " doing great on this,

> refill please? "

>

> Gentle

[Guest guest]

yep, well said... being a lump in the corner is NO way to live.. I was

there for a long time.. don't ever want to go back!

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:48:19 -0000 " Lynda "

writes:

> personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying

> of a heart attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

> Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

yep, well said... being a lump in the corner is NO way to live.. I was

there for a long time.. don't ever want to go back!

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:48:19 -0000 " Lynda "

writes:

> personally, I would rather self-medicate and take the risk of dying

> of a heart attack than live with the zombie-like symptoms of hypo.

> Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

Topper, what a great eye-opener! I am starting to REALLY hate the

majority of doctors out there. Really, really, really.

Gentle

[Guest guest]

P.S. Did I mention that I watched my mother die that slow, agonizing

death from undertreated hypo (actually untreated for decades)? Heart

attack was on the death certificate. But there is no doubt in my

mind what caused her to die 30 years younger than her own mother and

her own grandmother had. Hypothyroidism.