Re: Another insensitive doctor

[Guest guest]

Hello Darlene,

Have you looked at Carla's website www.uterinefibroids.com ? ,

in the section on myomectomy, she suggests that if you are having a

myomectomy and do NOT want to end up with a hystectomy that you can

have it put in writing and signed by the doctor that you do not want

a hysterectomy unless it is necessary to save your life. Perhaps that

would give you some peice of mind about the procedure. I'm sorry to

hear that you are having to deal with this at a time when you've had

a death in the family-my sympathy goes out to you.

> I sent a message to the group yesterday, and it seems to have

disappeared

> into never-neverland. I am trying it again, so if the first

message comes

> through and is repetitive, I apologize.

>

> I had a 8 cm fibroid diagnosed in March. I am now having

considerable pain

> and other symptoms so that something needs to be done soon. I

currently

> have a myomectomy scheduled for June 25th. The doctor is going to

try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against. I have had an ultrasound and a

vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and

that it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens

when they

> " get in there " . The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms -

other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months. I don't the option of

changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

allow

> (pay for) another. I also informed her that I had been having

difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was

watching my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned

about this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

about it

> would make it that much worse. Although I initially liked the

doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

later.

> Thanks,

> Darlene

[Guest guest]

Hello Darlene,

Have you looked at Carla's website www.uterinefibroids.com ? ,

in the section on myomectomy, she suggests that if you are having a

myomectomy and do NOT want to end up with a hystectomy that you can

have it put in writing and signed by the doctor that you do not want

a hysterectomy unless it is necessary to save your life. Perhaps that

would give you some peice of mind about the procedure. I'm sorry to

hear that you are having to deal with this at a time when you've had

a death in the family-my sympathy goes out to you.

> I sent a message to the group yesterday, and it seems to have

disappeared

> into never-neverland. I am trying it again, so if the first

message comes

> through and is repetitive, I apologize.

>

> I had a 8 cm fibroid diagnosed in March. I am now having

considerable pain

> and other symptoms so that something needs to be done soon. I

currently

> have a myomectomy scheduled for June 25th. The doctor is going to

try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against. I have had an ultrasound and a

vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and

that it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens

when they

> " get in there " . The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms -

other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months. I don't the option of

changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

allow

> (pay for) another. I also informed her that I had been having

difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was

watching my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned

about this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

about it

> would make it that much worse. Although I initially liked the

doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

later.

> Thanks,

> Darlene

[Guest guest]

Hello Darlene,

Have you looked at Carla's website www.uterinefibroids.com ? ,

in the section on myomectomy, she suggests that if you are having a

myomectomy and do NOT want to end up with a hystectomy that you can

have it put in writing and signed by the doctor that you do not want

a hysterectomy unless it is necessary to save your life. Perhaps that

would give you some peice of mind about the procedure. I'm sorry to

hear that you are having to deal with this at a time when you've had

a death in the family-my sympathy goes out to you.

> I sent a message to the group yesterday, and it seems to have

disappeared

> into never-neverland. I am trying it again, so if the first

message comes

> through and is repetitive, I apologize.

>

> I had a 8 cm fibroid diagnosed in March. I am now having

considerable pain

> and other symptoms so that something needs to be done soon. I

currently

> have a myomectomy scheduled for June 25th. The doctor is going to

try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against. I have had an ultrasound and a

vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and

that it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens

when they

> " get in there " . The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms -

other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months. I don't the option of

changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

allow

> (pay for) another. I also informed her that I had been having

difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was

watching my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned

about this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

about it

> would make it that much worse. Although I initially liked the

doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

later.

> Thanks,

> Darlene

[Guest guest]

dphickey wrote:

> The doctor is going to try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

> hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against.

Try? In my experience, any doctor that makes this kind of statement is

truly not intent on a myomectomy at all. On the other hand, if the

doctor had said to you that 100% of her intent would be to perform

myomectomy but that there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, well,

that's a slightly different story. Of course, I would then want to know

how many myomectomies she has performed and how many have indeed turned

into hysterectomy. The word " try " is a HUGE red flag to me.

While there are no guarantees in life, the word " try " coming out of a

gynecologist's mouth has become the biggest fib I've heard in the past 3

years that I've been doing advocacy on this subject. I can't begin to

tell you how many women have written to me who went in for a myomectomy

and came out with a hysterectomy.

A doctor should be able to say that he/she has every intention of

performing a myomectomy and would only steer from that course under

emergency circumstances -- and then identify what constitutes an

emergency and also tell you precisely how many times this has happened

in his/her practice. This doesn't present you with a guarantee but it

does present you with reality and the honest intent of the physician.

> I have had an ultrasound and a vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

> determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and that

> it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

> could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

> suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens when

> they

> " get in there " .

Horse pucky. Sounds like exploratory surgery to me. Another reason to

do the hyst once she " gets in there " .

> The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms - other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

> last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

> pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months.

Okay, another red flag. A myomectomy every few months might equal

what? 4 myos a year? How many hysterectomies does she perform? This

makes me nervous.

> I don't the option of changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

> allow

> (pay for) another.

Are you absolutely certain you have no other avenues towards changing

doctors again? Also, since this is an elective procedure, most

insurance plans do allow for second opinions. Any chance you could

research doctors a bit more thoroughly and find one to get a second

opinion with who has more experience with myomectomies?

> I also informed her that I had been having difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was watching

> my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned about

> this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

> about it

> would make it that much worse.

Clearly this doctor is unaware of the relationship of depression

pre-hysterectomy to depression and poor recovery outcome

post-hysterectomy. Silly? Depression is not simply a person being

" silly " . Depression both pre-and post hysterectomy is a very serious

issue and should not have been taken this lightly by your physician.

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and even more upset with

this physician for not recognizing and validating your concerns and your

depression.

Because of all of your pressing symptoms right now I feel so very bad

for you. But, any doctor who would want a patient to enter into surgery

without thinking about it quite seriously, is simply not a doctor I

would trust my body to. Any doctor who refuses to validate

pre-procedure depression will also ignore any problems you might have

after the procedure. This is kind of scary to me as well.

> Although I initially liked the doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

This happens to the best of us. Besides, she may be a fine ob/gyn and

hysterectomy surgeon. She clearly does not understand fibroids or a

woman's desire to keep her utuerus, however. Not a good fibroid doctor

at all. Also, you didn't indicate whether or not she talked about any

other treatment options. Did she mention embolization to you?

> You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

> due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

> later.

If you think you might regret it later, then you probably WILL regret it

later. Gut instincts are worth a million bucks in a case like this.

You need to listen to your own inner voice and find a way to seek other

care OR reconcile yourself to the potential for hysterectomy should you

follow through with your current surgery scheduled.

Also, as suggested, you can put it in writing that you are

undergoing surgery for a myomectomy and that you do not want a

hysterectomy except under lifesaving conditions. I would discuss this

with the gynecologist prior to the surgery though. She may not agree to

sign such a document. If that's the case and you feel like you still

need to keep this surgery date, put it in writing anyway and have two

witnesses sign it. Then, present it upon admission so that it becomes

part of your hospital record. Be sure and keep a copy for your own

records. Unfortunately, taking this step can sometimes cause the

surgeon to refuse to do the surgery. I would still attempt it though.

Even if the surgeon doesn't like it and asks it be removed from the

formal record, she certainly then knows that a hysterectomy is simply

unacceptable to you and that there are witnesses to this fact. If she

were to do a hysterectomy under those circumstances and without the

presence of " life saving conditions, " her liability to you would be well

substantiated.

Also, read the tiny print on the informed consent document that's

presented the day of the surgery and question any and everything that

gives the doctor an opening to do whatever she sees fit. UCLA's form is

horrendous and allows for just about anyone working in the hospital to

do just about whatever they see fit. Unbelievable. If you can get

copies of any forms you will be required to sign in advance from either

the doctor or the hospital, then you should do so so that you are not

caught off guard the day of the procedure. If you see anything that you

would like to cross out, be sure and consult with hospital admissions

first. They may have legal protocol regarding their forms and need to

instruct you specifically on how to ensure your wishes are logged " for

the record " .

Honestly though, when medicine gets down to this level of distrust there

is something seriously wrong and this physician may well not be the

right one for you. Even so, I do know that many women simply don't have

much choice in who they go to for their gynecological care. Truly

saddens me to find the lack of skilled and caring gynecologists in this

nation forcing women into the position of " settling " for second best and

possibly compromising the future of their long-term quality of life.

One last note about the potential for hysterectomy, even for " life

saving measures " you should have the option of keeping your cervix

and/or ovaries. If you proceed with this doctor and this surgery, you

should address this issue with your doctor or a " total pelvic clean out "

is what is most likely to occur. In your letter indicating you expect a

myomectomy and only anticipate a hysterectomy under emergency

conditions, you should also indicate whether or not an emergency means

the doctor has the right to remove your ovaries and cervix.

Hang in there. Maybe the group can come up with additional ideas that

will help you through all of this.

carla

[Guest guest]

dphickey wrote:

> The doctor is going to try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

> hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against.

Try? In my experience, any doctor that makes this kind of statement is

truly not intent on a myomectomy at all. On the other hand, if the

doctor had said to you that 100% of her intent would be to perform

myomectomy but that there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, well,

that's a slightly different story. Of course, I would then want to know

how many myomectomies she has performed and how many have indeed turned

into hysterectomy. The word " try " is a HUGE red flag to me.

While there are no guarantees in life, the word " try " coming out of a

gynecologist's mouth has become the biggest fib I've heard in the past 3

years that I've been doing advocacy on this subject. I can't begin to

tell you how many women have written to me who went in for a myomectomy

and came out with a hysterectomy.

A doctor should be able to say that he/she has every intention of

performing a myomectomy and would only steer from that course under

emergency circumstances -- and then identify what constitutes an

emergency and also tell you precisely how many times this has happened

in his/her practice. This doesn't present you with a guarantee but it

does present you with reality and the honest intent of the physician.

> I have had an ultrasound and a vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

> determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and that

> it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

> could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

> suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens when

> they

> " get in there " .

Horse pucky. Sounds like exploratory surgery to me. Another reason to

do the hyst once she " gets in there " .

> The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms - other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

> last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

> pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months.

Okay, another red flag. A myomectomy every few months might equal

what? 4 myos a year? How many hysterectomies does she perform? This

makes me nervous.

> I don't the option of changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

> allow

> (pay for) another.

Are you absolutely certain you have no other avenues towards changing

doctors again? Also, since this is an elective procedure, most

insurance plans do allow for second opinions. Any chance you could

research doctors a bit more thoroughly and find one to get a second

opinion with who has more experience with myomectomies?

> I also informed her that I had been having difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was watching

> my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned about

> this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

> about it

> would make it that much worse.

Clearly this doctor is unaware of the relationship of depression

pre-hysterectomy to depression and poor recovery outcome

post-hysterectomy. Silly? Depression is not simply a person being

" silly " . Depression both pre-and post hysterectomy is a very serious

issue and should not have been taken this lightly by your physician.

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and even more upset with

this physician for not recognizing and validating your concerns and your

depression.

Because of all of your pressing symptoms right now I feel so very bad

for you. But, any doctor who would want a patient to enter into surgery

without thinking about it quite seriously, is simply not a doctor I

would trust my body to. Any doctor who refuses to validate

pre-procedure depression will also ignore any problems you might have

after the procedure. This is kind of scary to me as well.

> Although I initially liked the doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

This happens to the best of us. Besides, she may be a fine ob/gyn and

hysterectomy surgeon. She clearly does not understand fibroids or a

woman's desire to keep her utuerus, however. Not a good fibroid doctor

at all. Also, you didn't indicate whether or not she talked about any

other treatment options. Did she mention embolization to you?

> You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

> due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

> later.

If you think you might regret it later, then you probably WILL regret it

later. Gut instincts are worth a million bucks in a case like this.

You need to listen to your own inner voice and find a way to seek other

care OR reconcile yourself to the potential for hysterectomy should you

follow through with your current surgery scheduled.

Also, as suggested, you can put it in writing that you are

undergoing surgery for a myomectomy and that you do not want a

hysterectomy except under lifesaving conditions. I would discuss this

with the gynecologist prior to the surgery though. She may not agree to

sign such a document. If that's the case and you feel like you still

need to keep this surgery date, put it in writing anyway and have two

witnesses sign it. Then, present it upon admission so that it becomes

part of your hospital record. Be sure and keep a copy for your own

records. Unfortunately, taking this step can sometimes cause the

surgeon to refuse to do the surgery. I would still attempt it though.

Even if the surgeon doesn't like it and asks it be removed from the

formal record, she certainly then knows that a hysterectomy is simply

unacceptable to you and that there are witnesses to this fact. If she

were to do a hysterectomy under those circumstances and without the

presence of " life saving conditions, " her liability to you would be well

substantiated.

Also, read the tiny print on the informed consent document that's

presented the day of the surgery and question any and everything that

gives the doctor an opening to do whatever she sees fit. UCLA's form is

horrendous and allows for just about anyone working in the hospital to

do just about whatever they see fit. Unbelievable. If you can get

copies of any forms you will be required to sign in advance from either

the doctor or the hospital, then you should do so so that you are not

caught off guard the day of the procedure. If you see anything that you

would like to cross out, be sure and consult with hospital admissions

first. They may have legal protocol regarding their forms and need to

instruct you specifically on how to ensure your wishes are logged " for

the record " .

Honestly though, when medicine gets down to this level of distrust there

is something seriously wrong and this physician may well not be the

right one for you. Even so, I do know that many women simply don't have

much choice in who they go to for their gynecological care. Truly

saddens me to find the lack of skilled and caring gynecologists in this

nation forcing women into the position of " settling " for second best and

possibly compromising the future of their long-term quality of life.

One last note about the potential for hysterectomy, even for " life

saving measures " you should have the option of keeping your cervix

and/or ovaries. If you proceed with this doctor and this surgery, you

should address this issue with your doctor or a " total pelvic clean out "

is what is most likely to occur. In your letter indicating you expect a

myomectomy and only anticipate a hysterectomy under emergency

conditions, you should also indicate whether or not an emergency means

the doctor has the right to remove your ovaries and cervix.

Hang in there. Maybe the group can come up with additional ideas that

will help you through all of this.

carla

[Guest guest]

dphickey wrote:

> The doctor is going to try to do

> the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

> hysterectomy -

> which I am very much against.

Try? In my experience, any doctor that makes this kind of statement is

truly not intent on a myomectomy at all. On the other hand, if the

doctor had said to you that 100% of her intent would be to perform

myomectomy but that there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, well,

that's a slightly different story. Of course, I would then want to know

how many myomectomies she has performed and how many have indeed turned

into hysterectomy. The word " try " is a HUGE red flag to me.

While there are no guarantees in life, the word " try " coming out of a

gynecologist's mouth has become the biggest fib I've heard in the past 3

years that I've been doing advocacy on this subject. I can't begin to

tell you how many women have written to me who went in for a myomectomy

and came out with a hysterectomy.

A doctor should be able to say that he/she has every intention of

performing a myomectomy and would only steer from that course under

emergency circumstances -- and then identify what constitutes an

emergency and also tell you precisely how many times this has happened

in his/her practice. This doesn't present you with a guarantee but it

does present you with reality and the honest intent of the physician.

> I have had an ultrasound and a vaginal

> ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

> determine what

> type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and that

> it in

> on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

> could be

> done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

> suspects

> cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens when

> they

> " get in there " .

Horse pucky. Sounds like exploratory surgery to me. Another reason to

do the hyst once she " gets in there " .

> The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms - other than

> the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

> last few

> weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

> pain,

> etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> successful, and she said every few months.

Okay, another red flag. A myomectomy every few months might equal

what? 4 myos a year? How many hysterectomies does she perform? This

makes me nervous.

> I don't the option of changing

> doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

> allow

> (pay for) another.

Are you absolutely certain you have no other avenues towards changing

doctors again? Also, since this is an elective procedure, most

insurance plans do allow for second opinions. Any chance you could

research doctors a bit more thoroughly and find one to get a second

opinion with who has more experience with myomectomies?

> I also informed her that I had been having difficulty

> with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was watching

> my

> mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned about

> this

> getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

> about it

> would make it that much worse.

Clearly this doctor is unaware of the relationship of depression

pre-hysterectomy to depression and poor recovery outcome

post-hysterectomy. Silly? Depression is not simply a person being

" silly " . Depression both pre-and post hysterectomy is a very serious

issue and should not have been taken this lightly by your physician.

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and even more upset with

this physician for not recognizing and validating your concerns and your

depression.

Because of all of your pressing symptoms right now I feel so very bad

for you. But, any doctor who would want a patient to enter into surgery

without thinking about it quite seriously, is simply not a doctor I

would trust my body to. Any doctor who refuses to validate

pre-procedure depression will also ignore any problems you might have

after the procedure. This is kind of scary to me as well.

> Although I initially liked the doctor very

> well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

This happens to the best of us. Besides, she may be a fine ob/gyn and

hysterectomy surgeon. She clearly does not understand fibroids or a

woman's desire to keep her utuerus, however. Not a good fibroid doctor

at all. Also, you didn't indicate whether or not she talked about any

other treatment options. Did she mention embolization to you?

> You all

> have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

> due to

> insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

> later.

If you think you might regret it later, then you probably WILL regret it

later. Gut instincts are worth a million bucks in a case like this.

You need to listen to your own inner voice and find a way to seek other

care OR reconcile yourself to the potential for hysterectomy should you

follow through with your current surgery scheduled.

Also, as suggested, you can put it in writing that you are

undergoing surgery for a myomectomy and that you do not want a

hysterectomy except under lifesaving conditions. I would discuss this

with the gynecologist prior to the surgery though. She may not agree to

sign such a document. If that's the case and you feel like you still

need to keep this surgery date, put it in writing anyway and have two

witnesses sign it. Then, present it upon admission so that it becomes

part of your hospital record. Be sure and keep a copy for your own

records. Unfortunately, taking this step can sometimes cause the

surgeon to refuse to do the surgery. I would still attempt it though.

Even if the surgeon doesn't like it and asks it be removed from the

formal record, she certainly then knows that a hysterectomy is simply

unacceptable to you and that there are witnesses to this fact. If she

were to do a hysterectomy under those circumstances and without the

presence of " life saving conditions, " her liability to you would be well

substantiated.

Also, read the tiny print on the informed consent document that's

presented the day of the surgery and question any and everything that

gives the doctor an opening to do whatever she sees fit. UCLA's form is

horrendous and allows for just about anyone working in the hospital to

do just about whatever they see fit. Unbelievable. If you can get

copies of any forms you will be required to sign in advance from either

the doctor or the hospital, then you should do so so that you are not

caught off guard the day of the procedure. If you see anything that you

would like to cross out, be sure and consult with hospital admissions

first. They may have legal protocol regarding their forms and need to

instruct you specifically on how to ensure your wishes are logged " for

the record " .

Honestly though, when medicine gets down to this level of distrust there

is something seriously wrong and this physician may well not be the

right one for you. Even so, I do know that many women simply don't have

much choice in who they go to for their gynecological care. Truly

saddens me to find the lack of skilled and caring gynecologists in this

nation forcing women into the position of " settling " for second best and

possibly compromising the future of their long-term quality of life.

One last note about the potential for hysterectomy, even for " life

saving measures " you should have the option of keeping your cervix

and/or ovaries. If you proceed with this doctor and this surgery, you

should address this issue with your doctor or a " total pelvic clean out "

is what is most likely to occur. In your letter indicating you expect a

myomectomy and only anticipate a hysterectomy under emergency

conditions, you should also indicate whether or not an emergency means

the doctor has the right to remove your ovaries and cervix.

Hang in there. Maybe the group can come up with additional ideas that

will help you through all of this.

carla

[Guest guest]

dphickey@... writes: Sorry if I appear to

be whining, I just needed someone who would understand how difficult this

is.

Dear Darlene:

Whine away! We understand! I did for months! Look me up in the archives! I

whined and moaned with the best of them! That is part of why we are here! To

share the confusion of this fibroid mess!

Now my pain is over and it makes me feel good to think I could help

someone have a moments less pain themselves.

OK. So this was your second opinion, but maybe just maybe, if you went to a

different KIND of doctor it would be a first opinion. Maybe if you saw a

fertility specialist to get an opinion as to whether or not you could handle

a pregnancy now it would be a new start.

If you are anywhere near NYC I am close to positive at least three doctors

here could remove your visitor while keep all your organs intact. I found the

doctor I used through a friend of a friend who flew here from California

because she couldn't find anyone there to remove her four large fibroids

without removing everything else.

He is a fertility specialist.

Please let me know if you want any information about the kind of surgery

I had or the doctor I used. Today was my first day without any pain killers

and I forget what I sent to whom when I was still in a fog. Did I send you

web sites? I'll send a few now even if I already sent them.

Audrey

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/ " >Advanced Laparoscopic Surgeons - www.adlap.com

</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.americanfertility.com/people_vidali.shtml " > Vidali,

M.D.</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.lupronvictims.com/top50f.html " >THE NATIONAL LUPRON

VICTIMS NETWORK - Top 50 Ad…</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.repmed.com/ " >Welcome to RepMed</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/gerhart.htm " >Gerhart</A>

A final note before I let you be for the night.....it is easier for everyone

else NOW if you " just go have it all out " but I doubt very much if it will be

easier for you, now or later.

If I had not read as much as I now have about this problem, I would most

likely be saying what the people around you are saying. Hand them a book or

two, a few pages of print out from sites about fibroids, and I'll bet they

change their minds.

One more final note. I was very shy about asking for pain killers while I was

doing all my research. I finally asked a few days before the surgery. It was

a cinch.

[Guest guest]

dphickey@... writes: Sorry if I appear to

be whining, I just needed someone who would understand how difficult this

is.

Dear Darlene:

Whine away! We understand! I did for months! Look me up in the archives! I

whined and moaned with the best of them! That is part of why we are here! To

share the confusion of this fibroid mess!

Now my pain is over and it makes me feel good to think I could help

someone have a moments less pain themselves.

OK. So this was your second opinion, but maybe just maybe, if you went to a

different KIND of doctor it would be a first opinion. Maybe if you saw a

fertility specialist to get an opinion as to whether or not you could handle

a pregnancy now it would be a new start.

If you are anywhere near NYC I am close to positive at least three doctors

here could remove your visitor while keep all your organs intact. I found the

doctor I used through a friend of a friend who flew here from California

because she couldn't find anyone there to remove her four large fibroids

without removing everything else.

He is a fertility specialist.

Please let me know if you want any information about the kind of surgery

I had or the doctor I used. Today was my first day without any pain killers

and I forget what I sent to whom when I was still in a fog. Did I send you

web sites? I'll send a few now even if I already sent them.

Audrey

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/ " >Advanced Laparoscopic Surgeons - www.adlap.com

</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.americanfertility.com/people_vidali.shtml " > Vidali,

M.D.</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.lupronvictims.com/top50f.html " >THE NATIONAL LUPRON

VICTIMS NETWORK - Top 50 Ad…</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.repmed.com/ " >Welcome to RepMed</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/gerhart.htm " >Gerhart</A>

A final note before I let you be for the night.....it is easier for everyone

else NOW if you " just go have it all out " but I doubt very much if it will be

easier for you, now or later.

If I had not read as much as I now have about this problem, I would most

likely be saying what the people around you are saying. Hand them a book or

two, a few pages of print out from sites about fibroids, and I'll bet they

change their minds.

One more final note. I was very shy about asking for pain killers while I was

doing all my research. I finally asked a few days before the surgery. It was

a cinch.

[Guest guest]

dphickey@... writes: Sorry if I appear to

be whining, I just needed someone who would understand how difficult this

is.

Dear Darlene:

Whine away! We understand! I did for months! Look me up in the archives! I

whined and moaned with the best of them! That is part of why we are here! To

share the confusion of this fibroid mess!

Now my pain is over and it makes me feel good to think I could help

someone have a moments less pain themselves.

OK. So this was your second opinion, but maybe just maybe, if you went to a

different KIND of doctor it would be a first opinion. Maybe if you saw a

fertility specialist to get an opinion as to whether or not you could handle

a pregnancy now it would be a new start.

If you are anywhere near NYC I am close to positive at least three doctors

here could remove your visitor while keep all your organs intact. I found the

doctor I used through a friend of a friend who flew here from California

because she couldn't find anyone there to remove her four large fibroids

without removing everything else.

He is a fertility specialist.

Please let me know if you want any information about the kind of surgery

I had or the doctor I used. Today was my first day without any pain killers

and I forget what I sent to whom when I was still in a fog. Did I send you

web sites? I'll send a few now even if I already sent them.

Audrey

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/ " >Advanced Laparoscopic Surgeons - www.adlap.com

</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.americanfertility.com/people_vidali.shtml " > Vidali,

M.D.</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.lupronvictims.com/top50f.html " >THE NATIONAL LUPRON

VICTIMS NETWORK - Top 50 Ad…</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.repmed.com/ " >Welcome to RepMed</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.adlap.com/gerhart.htm " >Gerhart</A>

A final note before I let you be for the night.....it is easier for everyone

else NOW if you " just go have it all out " but I doubt very much if it will be

easier for you, now or later.

If I had not read as much as I now have about this problem, I would most

likely be saying what the people around you are saying. Hand them a book or

two, a few pages of print out from sites about fibroids, and I'll bet they

change their minds.

One more final note. I was very shy about asking for pain killers while I was

doing all my research. I finally asked a few days before the surgery. It was

a cinch.

[Guest guest]

--- Carla Dionne wrote:

> dphickey wrote:

>

> > The doctor is going to try to do

> > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do

> a complete

> > hysterectomy -

> > which I am very much against.

>

> Try? The word " try " is a HUGE red

> flag to me.

>

I'd agree! I asked my doc about the possibility of a

hysterectomy being necessary during surgery if the myo

didn't go right...she said she's never had to perform

such a thing. Of course, 'never say never' but her

confidence won me over.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Carla Dionne wrote:

> dphickey wrote:

>

> > The doctor is going to try to do

> > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do

> a complete

> > hysterectomy -

> > which I am very much against.

>

> Try? The word " try " is a HUGE red

> flag to me.

>

I'd agree! I asked my doc about the possibility of a

hysterectomy being necessary during surgery if the myo

didn't go right...she said she's never had to perform

such a thing. Of course, 'never say never' but her

confidence won me over.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I

> don't the option of

> changing

> > doctors again as I have already done so and the

> insurance will not

> allow

> > (pay for) another

I've never heard of an insurance company not allowing

you second opinions. Maybe if it was explained that a

more expensive surgery is being suggested and perhaps

even pushed on you, they would agree...When it comes

to your health, 2nd 3rd and even 4th opinions are

always a good idea.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I

> don't the option of

> changing

> > doctors again as I have already done so and the

> insurance will not

> allow

> > (pay for) another

I've never heard of an insurance company not allowing

you second opinions. Maybe if it was explained that a

more expensive surgery is being suggested and perhaps

even pushed on you, they would agree...When it comes

to your health, 2nd 3rd and even 4th opinions are

always a good idea.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I

> don't the option of

> changing

> > doctors again as I have already done so and the

> insurance will not

> allow

> > (pay for) another

I've never heard of an insurance company not allowing

you second opinions. Maybe if it was explained that a

more expensive surgery is being suggested and perhaps

even pushed on you, they would agree...When it comes

to your health, 2nd 3rd and even 4th opinions are

always a good idea.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Carla and everyone else for your responses.

Unfortunately, this WAS my second opinion. My GP told me I needed a

hysterectomy nine months ago, before the fibroid was even diagnosed, and

before I insisted on seeing a specialist (and after 9 months I final got to

see one. Prior to that they kept changing my BCP's to correct the problem,

and making the bleeding worse, and I kept asking if there might not be

something else wrong! Ha! Just a fibroid the size of an orange. T'wernt

nothing). The first OB/GYN said hysterectomy hands down after seeing the

ultrasound. The current doctor talked a good story giving me four options

(do nothing, UAE, Myomectomy, hysterectomy). I was encouraged that she gave

me options.

At least all the things that I thought were red flags appear to be so to

others - although not to the family and friends that are supposed to be

supporting me - they all say just get the hysterectomy over with, you don't

need the uterus anyway, and will you feel so much better. ( I am 37, single,

and would like to have a child; however, unlikely that might be).

I actually signed the consent yesterday. It says, " exploratory laparotomy -

opening of the abdomen by surgical incision. Myomectomy- removal of

fibroids. Possible hysterectomy - removal of uterus through abdominal

incision " . And of course gives the doctor the right to address 'unforeseen

conditions may necessitate additional or different procedures than those set

forth above " ...and gives her the right to exercise her professional

judgement.

The insurance definitely will not cover another opinion (they wouldn't cover

this one unless it resulted in some sort of procedure), and because of pain

and work concerns, I can't afford to delay any longer. Sorry if I appear to

be whining, I just needed someone who would understand how difficult this

is.

Keep up the good work ladies - if I had found this site sooner, I wouldn't

be in this mess. And I did order Carla's book - and would recommend it -

unfortunately, due to a shipping problem it didn't get here until after I

had the preop appointment (darn Amazon.com).

Darlene

Re: Another insensitive doctor

> dphickey wrote:

>

> > The doctor is going to try to do

> > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

> > hysterectomy -

> > which I am very much against.

>

> Try? In my experience, any doctor that makes this kind of statement is

> truly not intent on a myomectomy at all. On the other hand, if the

> doctor had said to you that 100% of her intent would be to perform

> myomectomy but that there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, well,

> that's a slightly different story. Of course, I would then want to know

> how many myomectomies she has performed and how many have indeed turned

> into hysterectomy. The word " try " is a HUGE red flag to me.

>

> While there are no guarantees in life, the word " try " coming out of a

> gynecologist's mouth has become the biggest fib I've heard in the past 3

> years that I've been doing advocacy on this subject. I can't begin to

> tell you how many women have written to me who went in for a myomectomy

> and came out with a hysterectomy.

>

> A doctor should be able to say that he/she has every intention of

> performing a myomectomy and would only steer from that course under

> emergency circumstances -- and then identify what constitutes an

> emergency and also tell you precisely how many times this has happened

> in his/her practice. This doesn't present you with a guarantee but it

> does present you with reality and the honest intent of the physician.

>

> > I have had an ultrasound and a vaginal

> > ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

> > determine what

> > type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and that

> > it in

> > on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

> > could be

> > done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

> > suspects

> > cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens when

> > they

> > " get in there " .

>

> Horse pucky. Sounds like exploratory surgery to me. Another reason to

> do the hyst once she " gets in there " .

>

> > The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms - other than

> > the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

> > last few

> > weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

> > pain,

> > etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> > successful, and she said every few months.

>

> Okay, another red flag. A myomectomy every few months might equal

> what? 4 myos a year? How many hysterectomies does she perform? This

> makes me nervous.

>

> > I don't the option of changing

> > doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

> > allow

> > (pay for) another.

>

> Are you absolutely certain you have no other avenues towards changing

> doctors again? Also, since this is an elective procedure, most

> insurance plans do allow for second opinions. Any chance you could

> research doctors a bit more thoroughly and find one to get a second

> opinion with who has more experience with myomectomies?

>

> > I also informed her that I had been having difficulty

> > with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was watching

> > my

> > mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned about

> > this

> > getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> > hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

> > about it

> > would make it that much worse.

>

> Clearly this doctor is unaware of the relationship of depression

> pre-hysterectomy to depression and poor recovery outcome

> post-hysterectomy. Silly? Depression is not simply a person being

> " silly " . Depression both pre-and post hysterectomy is a very serious

> issue and should not have been taken this lightly by your physician.

> I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and even more upset with

> this physician for not recognizing and validating your concerns and your

> depression.

>

> Because of all of your pressing symptoms right now I feel so very bad

> for you. But, any doctor who would want a patient to enter into surgery

> without thinking about it quite seriously, is simply not a doctor I

> would trust my body to. Any doctor who refuses to validate

> pre-procedure depression will also ignore any problems you might have

> after the procedure. This is kind of scary to me as well.

>

> > Although I initially liked the doctor very

> > well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

>

> This happens to the best of us. Besides, she may be a fine ob/gyn and

> hysterectomy surgeon. She clearly does not understand fibroids or a

> woman's desire to keep her utuerus, however. Not a good fibroid doctor

> at all. Also, you didn't indicate whether or not she talked about any

> other treatment options. Did she mention embolization to you?

>

> > You all

> > have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> > suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

> > due to

> > insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

> > later.

>

> If you think you might regret it later, then you probably WILL regret it

> later. Gut instincts are worth a million bucks in a case like this.

> You need to listen to your own inner voice and find a way to seek other

> care OR reconcile yourself to the potential for hysterectomy should you

> follow through with your current surgery scheduled.

>

> Also, as suggested, you can put it in writing that you are

> undergoing surgery for a myomectomy and that you do not want a

> hysterectomy except under lifesaving conditions. I would discuss this

> with the gynecologist prior to the surgery though. She may not agree to

> sign such a document. If that's the case and you feel like you still

> need to keep this surgery date, put it in writing anyway and have two

> witnesses sign it. Then, present it upon admission so that it becomes

> part of your hospital record. Be sure and keep a copy for your own

> records. Unfortunately, taking this step can sometimes cause the

> surgeon to refuse to do the surgery. I would still attempt it though.

> Even if the surgeon doesn't like it and asks it be removed from the

> formal record, she certainly then knows that a hysterectomy is simply

> unacceptable to you and that there are witnesses to this fact. If she

> were to do a hysterectomy under those circumstances and without the

> presence of " life saving conditions, " her liability to you would be well

> substantiated.

>

> Also, read the tiny print on the informed consent document that's

> presented the day of the surgery and question any and everything that

> gives the doctor an opening to do whatever she sees fit. UCLA's form is

> horrendous and allows for just about anyone working in the hospital to

> do just about whatever they see fit. Unbelievable. If you can get

> copies of any forms you will be required to sign in advance from either

> the doctor or the hospital, then you should do so so that you are not

> caught off guard the day of the procedure. If you see anything that you

> would like to cross out, be sure and consult with hospital admissions

> first. They may have legal protocol regarding their forms and need to

> instruct you specifically on how to ensure your wishes are logged " for

> the record " .

>

> Honestly though, when medicine gets down to this level of distrust there

> is something seriously wrong and this physician may well not be the

> right one for you. Even so, I do know that many women simply don't have

> much choice in who they go to for their gynecological care. Truly

> saddens me to find the lack of skilled and caring gynecologists in this

> nation forcing women into the position of " settling " for second best and

> possibly compromising the future of their long-term quality of life.

>

> One last note about the potential for hysterectomy, even for " life

> saving measures " you should have the option of keeping your cervix

> and/or ovaries. If you proceed with this doctor and this surgery, you

> should address this issue with your doctor or a " total pelvic clean out "

> is what is most likely to occur. In your letter indicating you expect a

> myomectomy and only anticipate a hysterectomy under emergency

> conditions, you should also indicate whether or not an emergency means

> the doctor has the right to remove your ovaries and cervix.

>

> Hang in there. Maybe the group can come up with additional ideas that

> will help you through all of this.

>

> carla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Carla and everyone else for your responses.

Unfortunately, this WAS my second opinion. My GP told me I needed a

hysterectomy nine months ago, before the fibroid was even diagnosed, and

before I insisted on seeing a specialist (and after 9 months I final got to

see one. Prior to that they kept changing my BCP's to correct the problem,

and making the bleeding worse, and I kept asking if there might not be

something else wrong! Ha! Just a fibroid the size of an orange. T'wernt

nothing). The first OB/GYN said hysterectomy hands down after seeing the

ultrasound. The current doctor talked a good story giving me four options

(do nothing, UAE, Myomectomy, hysterectomy). I was encouraged that she gave

me options.

At least all the things that I thought were red flags appear to be so to

others - although not to the family and friends that are supposed to be

supporting me - they all say just get the hysterectomy over with, you don't

need the uterus anyway, and will you feel so much better. ( I am 37, single,

and would like to have a child; however, unlikely that might be).

I actually signed the consent yesterday. It says, " exploratory laparotomy -

opening of the abdomen by surgical incision. Myomectomy- removal of

fibroids. Possible hysterectomy - removal of uterus through abdominal

incision " . And of course gives the doctor the right to address 'unforeseen

conditions may necessitate additional or different procedures than those set

forth above " ...and gives her the right to exercise her professional

judgement.

The insurance definitely will not cover another opinion (they wouldn't cover

this one unless it resulted in some sort of procedure), and because of pain

and work concerns, I can't afford to delay any longer. Sorry if I appear to

be whining, I just needed someone who would understand how difficult this

is.

Keep up the good work ladies - if I had found this site sooner, I wouldn't

be in this mess. And I did order Carla's book - and would recommend it -

unfortunately, due to a shipping problem it didn't get here until after I

had the preop appointment (darn Amazon.com).

Darlene

Re: Another insensitive doctor

> dphickey wrote:

>

> > The doctor is going to try to do

> > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do a complete

> > hysterectomy -

> > which I am very much against.

>

> Try? In my experience, any doctor that makes this kind of statement is

> truly not intent on a myomectomy at all. On the other hand, if the

> doctor had said to you that 100% of her intent would be to perform

> myomectomy but that there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, well,

> that's a slightly different story. Of course, I would then want to know

> how many myomectomies she has performed and how many have indeed turned

> into hysterectomy. The word " try " is a HUGE red flag to me.

>

> While there are no guarantees in life, the word " try " coming out of a

> gynecologist's mouth has become the biggest fib I've heard in the past 3

> years that I've been doing advocacy on this subject. I can't begin to

> tell you how many women have written to me who went in for a myomectomy

> and came out with a hysterectomy.

>

> A doctor should be able to say that he/she has every intention of

> performing a myomectomy and would only steer from that course under

> emergency circumstances -- and then identify what constitutes an

> emergency and also tell you precisely how many times this has happened

> in his/her practice. This doesn't present you with a guarantee but it

> does present you with reality and the honest intent of the physician.

>

> > I have had an ultrasound and a vaginal

> > ultrasound (back in March). But this has not enabled them to

> > determine what

> > type of fibroid is involved other than the approximate size and that

> > it in

> > on the anterior wall of the uterus. I asked the doctor if an MRI

> > could be

> > done, and she has refused since she only does such tests if she

> > suspects

> > cancer. She says we will just have to wait to see what happens when

> > they

> > " get in there " .

>

> Horse pucky. Sounds like exploratory surgery to me. Another reason to

> do the hyst once she " gets in there " .

>

> > The tumor is obviously growing as the symptoms - other than

> > the heavy bleeding - have all started and progressed rapidly in the

> > last few

> > weeks (pain, bladder pressure and difficulty urinating, lower back

> > pain,

> > etc). I asked the doctor how often she performs myomectomies and is

> > successful, and she said every few months.

>

> Okay, another red flag. A myomectomy every few months might equal

> what? 4 myos a year? How many hysterectomies does she perform? This

> makes me nervous.

>

> > I don't the option of changing

> > doctors again as I have already done so and the insurance will not

> > allow

> > (pay for) another.

>

> Are you absolutely certain you have no other avenues towards changing

> doctors again? Also, since this is an elective procedure, most

> insurance plans do allow for second opinions. Any chance you could

> research doctors a bit more thoroughly and find one to get a second

> opinion with who has more experience with myomectomies?

>

> > I also informed her that I had been having difficulty

> > with depression (the tumor was diagnosed the same week I was watching

> > my

> > mother die after a protracted illness) and that I was concerned about

> > this

> > getting worse after the surgery - particularly if she has to do the

> > hysterectomy. She basically told me I was silly and that thinking

> > about it

> > would make it that much worse.

>

> Clearly this doctor is unaware of the relationship of depression

> pre-hysterectomy to depression and poor recovery outcome

> post-hysterectomy. Silly? Depression is not simply a person being

> " silly " . Depression both pre-and post hysterectomy is a very serious

> issue and should not have been taken this lightly by your physician.

> I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and even more upset with

> this physician for not recognizing and validating your concerns and your

> depression.

>

> Because of all of your pressing symptoms right now I feel so very bad

> for you. But, any doctor who would want a patient to enter into surgery

> without thinking about it quite seriously, is simply not a doctor I

> would trust my body to. Any doctor who refuses to validate

> pre-procedure depression will also ignore any problems you might have

> after the procedure. This is kind of scary to me as well.

>

> > Although I initially liked the doctor very

> > well, I suddenly get the impression I should have gone else where.

>

> This happens to the best of us. Besides, she may be a fine ob/gyn and

> hysterectomy surgeon. She clearly does not understand fibroids or a

> woman's desire to keep her utuerus, however. Not a good fibroid doctor

> at all. Also, you didn't indicate whether or not she talked about any

> other treatment options. Did she mention embolization to you?

>

> > You all

> > have been so good about feedback, I would appreciate any insight or

> > suggestions you could give me. I feel I am locked into this course

> > due to

> > insurance and the amount of pain I am in, but think I may regret it

> > later.

>

> If you think you might regret it later, then you probably WILL regret it

> later. Gut instincts are worth a million bucks in a case like this.

> You need to listen to your own inner voice and find a way to seek other

> care OR reconcile yourself to the potential for hysterectomy should you

> follow through with your current surgery scheduled.

>

> Also, as suggested, you can put it in writing that you are

> undergoing surgery for a myomectomy and that you do not want a

> hysterectomy except under lifesaving conditions. I would discuss this

> with the gynecologist prior to the surgery though. She may not agree to

> sign such a document. If that's the case and you feel like you still

> need to keep this surgery date, put it in writing anyway and have two

> witnesses sign it. Then, present it upon admission so that it becomes

> part of your hospital record. Be sure and keep a copy for your own

> records. Unfortunately, taking this step can sometimes cause the

> surgeon to refuse to do the surgery. I would still attempt it though.

> Even if the surgeon doesn't like it and asks it be removed from the

> formal record, she certainly then knows that a hysterectomy is simply

> unacceptable to you and that there are witnesses to this fact. If she

> were to do a hysterectomy under those circumstances and without the

> presence of " life saving conditions, " her liability to you would be well

> substantiated.

>

> Also, read the tiny print on the informed consent document that's

> presented the day of the surgery and question any and everything that

> gives the doctor an opening to do whatever she sees fit. UCLA's form is

> horrendous and allows for just about anyone working in the hospital to

> do just about whatever they see fit. Unbelievable. If you can get

> copies of any forms you will be required to sign in advance from either

> the doctor or the hospital, then you should do so so that you are not

> caught off guard the day of the procedure. If you see anything that you

> would like to cross out, be sure and consult with hospital admissions

> first. They may have legal protocol regarding their forms and need to

> instruct you specifically on how to ensure your wishes are logged " for

> the record " .

>

> Honestly though, when medicine gets down to this level of distrust there

> is something seriously wrong and this physician may well not be the

> right one for you. Even so, I do know that many women simply don't have

> much choice in who they go to for their gynecological care. Truly

> saddens me to find the lack of skilled and caring gynecologists in this

> nation forcing women into the position of " settling " for second best and

> possibly compromising the future of their long-term quality of life.

>

> One last note about the potential for hysterectomy, even for " life

> saving measures " you should have the option of keeping your cervix

> and/or ovaries. If you proceed with this doctor and this surgery, you

> should address this issue with your doctor or a " total pelvic clean out "

> is what is most likely to occur. In your letter indicating you expect a

> myomectomy and only anticipate a hysterectomy under emergency

> conditions, you should also indicate whether or not an emergency means

> the doctor has the right to remove your ovaries and cervix.

>

> Hang in there. Maybe the group can come up with additional ideas that

> will help you through all of this.

>

> carla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I strongly agree!TRY is often a way to cover lack of technique.If it doesn't

work out all the doctor

has to say is:Well,I DID TRY "

TRy to go for something better,and of course the devil is in the details-the

consent form

Bonnie

Presha Mustakas wrote:

> --- Carla Dionne wrote:

> > dphickey wrote:

> >

> > > The doctor is going to try to do

> > > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do

> > a complete

> > > hysterectomy -

> > > which I am very much against.

> >

> > Try? The word " try " is a HUGE red

> > flag to me.

> >

>

> I'd agree! I asked my doc about the possibility of a

> hysterectomy being necessary during surgery if the myo

> didn't go right...she said she's never had to perform

> such a thing. Of course, 'never say never' but her

> confidence won me over.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I strongly agree!TRY is often a way to cover lack of technique.If it doesn't

work out all the doctor

has to say is:Well,I DID TRY "

TRy to go for something better,and of course the devil is in the details-the

consent form

Bonnie

Presha Mustakas wrote:

> --- Carla Dionne wrote:

> > dphickey wrote:

> >

> > > The doctor is going to try to do

> > > the myomectomy, but has stated she may have to do

> > a complete

> > > hysterectomy -

> > > which I am very much against.

> >

> > Try? The word " try " is a HUGE red

> > flag to me.

> >

>

> I'd agree! I asked my doc about the possibility of a

> hysterectomy being necessary during surgery if the myo

> didn't go right...she said she's never had to perform

> such a thing. Of course, 'never say never' but her

> confidence won me over.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I have been reading alot of the post here and I noticed that many

women have been told by their doctors that hysterectomy will be

required when you only want myomectomy. Is seemed that there

are too many doctors around that are too insensitive about

this issue.

This is one thing I have noticed about all the doctors

I have spoken with in Toronto and none of them has mentioned or even

recommended hysterectomy to me. In fact, all of them

said that the chances of the myo turning into a hys is very

very low. So they don't told me not to worry. I am more

paranoid than they are. Again, if the surgeon is very experienced he

or she should be able to maintain the blood loss to avoid

hysterectomy. I am scheduled for a myo for my 11cm submucousal

fibroid on June 27th at 10:00 a.m. They should also be able

to remove some endometriosis at the same time.

After reading many concerns posted by some women about

their doctors, I feel very very lucky that my doctor(s) are

fairly competent, caring and most of all they all have bedside

manner. If any of you are in the Toronto area, I could recommend

these doctors to you. Feel free to contact me.

[Guest guest]

I have been reading alot of the post here and I noticed that many

women have been told by their doctors that hysterectomy will be

required when you only want myomectomy. Is seemed that there

are too many doctors around that are too insensitive about

this issue.

This is one thing I have noticed about all the doctors

I have spoken with in Toronto and none of them has mentioned or even

recommended hysterectomy to me. In fact, all of them

said that the chances of the myo turning into a hys is very

very low. So they don't told me not to worry. I am more

paranoid than they are. Again, if the surgeon is very experienced he

or she should be able to maintain the blood loss to avoid

hysterectomy. I am scheduled for a myo for my 11cm submucousal

fibroid on June 27th at 10:00 a.m. They should also be able

to remove some endometriosis at the same time.

After reading many concerns posted by some women about

their doctors, I feel very very lucky that my doctor(s) are

fairly competent, caring and most of all they all have bedside

manner. If any of you are in the Toronto area, I could recommend

these doctors to you. Feel free to contact me.

[Guest guest]

I have been reading alot of the post here and I noticed that many

women have been told by their doctors that hysterectomy will be

required when you only want myomectomy. Is seemed that there

are too many doctors around that are too insensitive about

this issue.

This is one thing I have noticed about all the doctors

I have spoken with in Toronto and none of them has mentioned or even

recommended hysterectomy to me. In fact, all of them

said that the chances of the myo turning into a hys is very

very low. So they don't told me not to worry. I am more

paranoid than they are. Again, if the surgeon is very experienced he

or she should be able to maintain the blood loss to avoid

hysterectomy. I am scheduled for a myo for my 11cm submucousal

fibroid on June 27th at 10:00 a.m. They should also be able

to remove some endometriosis at the same time.

After reading many concerns posted by some women about

their doctors, I feel very very lucky that my doctor(s) are

fairly competent, caring and most of all they all have bedside

manner. If any of you are in the Toronto area, I could recommend

these doctors to you. Feel free to contact me.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm not in the Toronto area,but in Montreal.I think that the experience of the

surgeon and the size

of the fibroids is the important thing.I would be interested to know how your

consent form will read?

We just taled about this a day or so ago and what came out of that discussion is

that many doctors

will reassure a patient,by being kind and sensitive and maybe they are just that

but at the bottom

line if the wording is more or less that the doctor will TRY a myomectomy -then

you do not have too

much of a guarantee that it will not turn into a hysterectomy,even if the

surgeon's intentions were

the very best.

Bonnie

erowntree@... wrote:

> I have been reading alot of the post here and I noticed that many

> women have been told by their doctors that hysterectomy will be

> required when you only want myomectomy. Is seemed that there

> are too many doctors around that are too insensitive about

> this issue.

>

> This is one thing I have noticed about all the doctors

> I have spoken with in Toronto and none of them has mentioned or even

> recommended hysterectomy to me. In fact, all of them

> said that the chances of the myo turning into a hys is very

> very low. So they don't told me not to worry. I am more

> paranoid than they are. Again, if the surgeon is very experienced he

> or she should be able to maintain the blood loss to avoid

> hysterectomy. I am scheduled for a myo for my 11cm submucousal

> fibroid on June 27th at 10:00 a.m. They should also be able

> to remove some endometriosis at the same time.

>

> After reading many concerns posted by some women about

> their doctors, I feel very very lucky that my doctor(s) are

> fairly competent, caring and most of all they all have bedside

> manner. If any of you are in the Toronto area, I could recommend

> these doctors to you. Feel free to contact me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm not in the Toronto area,but in Montreal.I think that the experience of the

surgeon and the size

of the fibroids is the important thing.I would be interested to know how your

consent form will read?

We just taled about this a day or so ago and what came out of that discussion is

that many doctors

will reassure a patient,by being kind and sensitive and maybe they are just that

but at the bottom

line if the wording is more or less that the doctor will TRY a myomectomy -then

you do not have too

much of a guarantee that it will not turn into a hysterectomy,even if the

surgeon's intentions were

the very best.

Bonnie

erowntree@... wrote:

> I have been reading alot of the post here and I noticed that many

> women have been told by their doctors that hysterectomy will be

> required when you only want myomectomy. Is seemed that there

> are too many doctors around that are too insensitive about

> this issue.

>

> This is one thing I have noticed about all the doctors

> I have spoken with in Toronto and none of them has mentioned or even

> recommended hysterectomy to me. In fact, all of them

> said that the chances of the myo turning into a hys is very

> very low. So they don't told me not to worry. I am more

> paranoid than they are. Again, if the surgeon is very experienced he

> or she should be able to maintain the blood loss to avoid

> hysterectomy. I am scheduled for a myo for my 11cm submucousal

> fibroid on June 27th at 10:00 a.m. They should also be able

> to remove some endometriosis at the same time.

>

> After reading many concerns posted by some women about

> their doctors, I feel very very lucky that my doctor(s) are

> fairly competent, caring and most of all they all have bedside

> manner. If any of you are in the Toronto area, I could recommend

> these doctors to you. Feel free to contact me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had my first--and only--child at 37 ( I didn't get married 'til I was

nearly 36!). A woman I know through work just had her first, and I believe

she is 41 or 42. You are not too old. Dorie

Another insensitive doctor

> Darlene,

>

> I may have missed it, but did you tell us where you live? Perhaps

> someone in the group can be of help in recommending a doctor in your

> area.

>

> I know that you have a serious financial consideration, but can you

> get a cash advance on a credit card, borrow from friends or

> relatives, or do something else to pay for another opinion? I don't

> fully understand your insurance problem, but would they pay if you

> didn't go through with the myomectomy you scheduled?

>

> If you have lost confidence in this doctor, go with your instincts

> and cancel the procedure. By the way, 37 is not too old to think

> about having kids someday. I know women who had their first child in

> their early 40s.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had my first--and only--child at 37 ( I didn't get married 'til I was

nearly 36!). A woman I know through work just had her first, and I believe

she is 41 or 42. You are not too old. Dorie

Another insensitive doctor

> Darlene,

>

> I may have missed it, but did you tell us where you live? Perhaps

> someone in the group can be of help in recommending a doctor in your

> area.

>

> I know that you have a serious financial consideration, but can you

> get a cash advance on a credit card, borrow from friends or

> relatives, or do something else to pay for another opinion? I don't

> fully understand your insurance problem, but would they pay if you

> didn't go through with the myomectomy you scheduled?

>

> If you have lost confidence in this doctor, go with your instincts

> and cancel the procedure. By the way, 37 is not too old to think

> about having kids someday. I know women who had their first child in

> their early 40s.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

>

>

>

>