Re: discouraged and whining

[Guest guest]

> My body does not convert at all which is why I am now on Armour

and the free t3 stays at the bottom. My free t3 then was flagged as

low. I no longer have the severe fatigue when I increase slowly even

with the low results. I have lots of room to increase, but for once

in over a year, I can think and function.

Is it possible that when a person is a poor converter, her problem

can be remedied for good at some point?? about 11 years ago I was

on .2 SYNTHROID....FT4 always tested WAY HIGH over the range, while

FT3 way below range. This is when he put me on 50mcg, cytomel as

well...and my FT3 came up, but not very much..about 6 months later he

put me on Armour. He mentioned that once I was getting my FT3 in a

decent range, the problem would be " solved " and it now seems to

be. I'm going to a different doctor now, but is this true? does a

poor converter " solve " the problem by taking Armour, and therefore

now more RT3's a produced?? Is it because I am not only a poor

converter, but also hypothyroid??

[Guest guest]

> My body does not convert at all which is why I am now on Armour

and the free t3 stays at the bottom. My free t3 then was flagged as

low. I no longer have the severe fatigue when I increase slowly even

with the low results. I have lots of room to increase, but for once

in over a year, I can think and function.

Is it possible that when a person is a poor converter, her problem

can be remedied for good at some point?? about 11 years ago I was

on .2 SYNTHROID....FT4 always tested WAY HIGH over the range, while

FT3 way below range. This is when he put me on 50mcg, cytomel as

well...and my FT3 came up, but not very much..about 6 months later he

put me on Armour. He mentioned that once I was getting my FT3 in a

decent range, the problem would be " solved " and it now seems to

be. I'm going to a different doctor now, but is this true? does a

poor converter " solve " the problem by taking Armour, and therefore

now more RT3's a produced?? Is it because I am not only a poor

converter, but also hypothyroid??

[Guest guest]

> Is it possible that when a person is a poor converter, her problem

> can be remedied for good at some point?? about 11 years ago I was

> on .2 SYNTHROID....FT4 always tested WAY HIGH over the range, while

> FT3 way below range. This is when he put me on 50mcg, cytomel as

> well...and my FT3 came up, but not very much..about 6 months later

he

> put me on Armour. He mentioned that once I was getting my FT3 in a

> decent range, the problem would be " solved " and it now seems to

> be. I'm going to a different doctor now, but is this true? does a

> poor converter " solve " the problem by taking Armour, and therefore

> now more RT3's a produced?? Is it because I am not only a poor

> converter, but also hypothyroid??

I meant *NO more Rt3's are produced* if one is getting alll the T3

she needs by supplementation/ DianA

[Guest guest]

> Is it possible that when a person is a poor converter, her problem

> can be remedied for good at some point?? about 11 years ago I was

> on .2 SYNTHROID....FT4 always tested WAY HIGH over the range, while

> FT3 way below range. This is when he put me on 50mcg, cytomel as

> well...and my FT3 came up, but not very much..about 6 months later

he

> put me on Armour. He mentioned that once I was getting my FT3 in a

> decent range, the problem would be " solved " and it now seems to

> be. I'm going to a different doctor now, but is this true? does a

> poor converter " solve " the problem by taking Armour, and therefore

> now more RT3's a produced?? Is it because I am not only a poor

> converter, but also hypothyroid??

I meant *NO more Rt3's are produced* if one is getting alll the T3

she needs by supplementation/ DianA

[Guest guest]

> Is it possible that when a person is a poor converter, her problem

> can be remedied for good at some point?? about 11 years ago I was

> on .2 SYNTHROID....FT4 always tested WAY HIGH over the range, while

> FT3 way below range. This is when he put me on 50mcg, cytomel as

> well...and my FT3 came up, but not very much..about 6 months later

he

> put me on Armour. He mentioned that once I was getting my FT3 in a

> decent range, the problem would be " solved " and it now seems to

> be. I'm going to a different doctor now, but is this true? does a

> poor converter " solve " the problem by taking Armour, and therefore

> now more RT3's a produced?? Is it because I am not only a poor

> converter, but also hypothyroid??

I meant *NO more Rt3's are produced* if one is getting alll the T3

she needs by supplementation/ DianA

[Guest guest]

> Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do

you

> have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the

hormones? It

> would be interesting to hear.

You know what? I have NO IDEA why. Looking back, I think I was

probably somewhat hypothyroid even in my childhood...When I became

prgenant at 17, I could not stay awake...got on my first thyroid

hormones at age 17 after childbirth, when every thing went from bad

to worse with me....(then testng came into being and my meds were

taken away from me for almost 20 years..but that is another volume in

my life story) I do not eat goiterogenic foods - except brocolli

maybe once a week, which I adore. At one time a few years back, I

realized I felt sluggish with the morning soy protein and soy milk

shakes I drank and so stopped those -only to find out later that they

do interfere with the thyroid function. I don't take calcium for the

most part - I have very dense bones - but when I do on occasion, I

take a chewable 500 mg. calcium at bedtime. I take my minerals and

the bulk of my vitamins at dinner. except for the tyrosine in the AM

with the Armour and a few thousand mg. C throughout the day. I don't

think anything I do interferes with the meds. But I have just in

Dec. completed a 5 year chronic fatigue protocol and so am just now

getting to tweaking my meds so that I am on an optimum dose and feel

the best I can. I use progesterone cream which I do feel optimizes my

thyroid function and meds.

[Guest guest]

> Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do

you

> have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the

hormones? It

> would be interesting to hear.

You know what? I have NO IDEA why. Looking back, I think I was

probably somewhat hypothyroid even in my childhood...When I became

prgenant at 17, I could not stay awake...got on my first thyroid

hormones at age 17 after childbirth, when every thing went from bad

to worse with me....(then testng came into being and my meds were

taken away from me for almost 20 years..but that is another volume in

my life story) I do not eat goiterogenic foods - except brocolli

maybe once a week, which I adore. At one time a few years back, I

realized I felt sluggish with the morning soy protein and soy milk

shakes I drank and so stopped those -only to find out later that they

do interfere with the thyroid function. I don't take calcium for the

most part - I have very dense bones - but when I do on occasion, I

take a chewable 500 mg. calcium at bedtime. I take my minerals and

the bulk of my vitamins at dinner. except for the tyrosine in the AM

with the Armour and a few thousand mg. C throughout the day. I don't

think anything I do interferes with the meds. But I have just in

Dec. completed a 5 year chronic fatigue protocol and so am just now

getting to tweaking my meds so that I am on an optimum dose and feel

the best I can. I use progesterone cream which I do feel optimizes my

thyroid function and meds.

[Guest guest]

> Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do

you

> have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the

hormones? It

> would be interesting to hear.

You know what? I have NO IDEA why. Looking back, I think I was

probably somewhat hypothyroid even in my childhood...When I became

prgenant at 17, I could not stay awake...got on my first thyroid

hormones at age 17 after childbirth, when every thing went from bad

to worse with me....(then testng came into being and my meds were

taken away from me for almost 20 years..but that is another volume in

my life story) I do not eat goiterogenic foods - except brocolli

maybe once a week, which I adore. At one time a few years back, I

realized I felt sluggish with the morning soy protein and soy milk

shakes I drank and so stopped those -only to find out later that they

do interfere with the thyroid function. I don't take calcium for the

most part - I have very dense bones - but when I do on occasion, I

take a chewable 500 mg. calcium at bedtime. I take my minerals and

the bulk of my vitamins at dinner. except for the tyrosine in the AM

with the Armour and a few thousand mg. C throughout the day. I don't

think anything I do interferes with the meds. But I have just in

Dec. completed a 5 year chronic fatigue protocol and so am just now

getting to tweaking my meds so that I am on an optimum dose and feel

the best I can. I use progesterone cream which I do feel optimizes my

thyroid function and meds.

[Guest guest]

I take 200 mg. selenium every dinner time.

> Are you taking Selenium? How much?

>

> Selenium is a mineral. It used to be something we got a lot of in

the

> foods we eat but with all the commercial farming and chemical

fertilizers

> our natural food sources are severely deficient.... So natural

selenium

> sources aren't even a matter of what foods we eat, it's where they

are

> produced, what parts of the country and how intensely that farm

land is

> cultivated and how it is fertilized. That is why brazil nuts are

> considered an excellent source of selenium.. the trees are very old

and

> the method used to grow them and the part of the world that they

grow

> causes them to be rich in selenium, making the nuts an excellent

source.

> The numbers given are the 3 to 5 nuts per day provide the RDA of

Selenium

> all on their own.

>

> The body uses Selenium to pull an Iodine molecule off of a T4

molecule,

> turning it into a T3..... From what I've been reading - poor

conversion

> can be just a trait of the individual or, most often, a lack of

> sufficient selenium in the system to allow for that chemical

conversion.

> I have read that many of the thyroid issues people face today

result

> from the thyroid burning itself out trying to provide sufficient

amounts

> of T4 in the body to allow for conversion of T3 to allow normal

> function.... as time goes on and poor conversion continues or

> increases... the thyroid simply burns itself out....

>

> You can safely increase Selenium intake to 400 mcg per day. For

myself...

> I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

breakfast, one

> with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

rest of

> my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to allow

me to

> take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased the

> levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter.... I

don't

> have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

times per

> day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the next

dose I

> don't feel down inbetween.

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

I take 200 mg. selenium every dinner time.

> Are you taking Selenium? How much?

>

> Selenium is a mineral. It used to be something we got a lot of in

the

> foods we eat but with all the commercial farming and chemical

fertilizers

> our natural food sources are severely deficient.... So natural

selenium

> sources aren't even a matter of what foods we eat, it's where they

are

> produced, what parts of the country and how intensely that farm

land is

> cultivated and how it is fertilized. That is why brazil nuts are

> considered an excellent source of selenium.. the trees are very old

and

> the method used to grow them and the part of the world that they

grow

> causes them to be rich in selenium, making the nuts an excellent

source.

> The numbers given are the 3 to 5 nuts per day provide the RDA of

Selenium

> all on their own.

>

> The body uses Selenium to pull an Iodine molecule off of a T4

molecule,

> turning it into a T3..... From what I've been reading - poor

conversion

> can be just a trait of the individual or, most often, a lack of

> sufficient selenium in the system to allow for that chemical

conversion.

> I have read that many of the thyroid issues people face today

result

> from the thyroid burning itself out trying to provide sufficient

amounts

> of T4 in the body to allow for conversion of T3 to allow normal

> function.... as time goes on and poor conversion continues or

> increases... the thyroid simply burns itself out....

>

> You can safely increase Selenium intake to 400 mcg per day. For

myself...

> I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

breakfast, one

> with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

rest of

> my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to allow

me to

> take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased the

> levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter.... I

don't

> have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

times per

> day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the next

dose I

> don't feel down inbetween.

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

I take 200 mg. selenium every dinner time.

> Are you taking Selenium? How much?

>

> Selenium is a mineral. It used to be something we got a lot of in

the

> foods we eat but with all the commercial farming and chemical

fertilizers

> our natural food sources are severely deficient.... So natural

selenium

> sources aren't even a matter of what foods we eat, it's where they

are

> produced, what parts of the country and how intensely that farm

land is

> cultivated and how it is fertilized. That is why brazil nuts are

> considered an excellent source of selenium.. the trees are very old

and

> the method used to grow them and the part of the world that they

grow

> causes them to be rich in selenium, making the nuts an excellent

source.

> The numbers given are the 3 to 5 nuts per day provide the RDA of

Selenium

> all on their own.

>

> The body uses Selenium to pull an Iodine molecule off of a T4

molecule,

> turning it into a T3..... From what I've been reading - poor

conversion

> can be just a trait of the individual or, most often, a lack of

> sufficient selenium in the system to allow for that chemical

conversion.

> I have read that many of the thyroid issues people face today

result

> from the thyroid burning itself out trying to provide sufficient

amounts

> of T4 in the body to allow for conversion of T3 to allow normal

> function.... as time goes on and poor conversion continues or

> increases... the thyroid simply burns itself out....

>

> You can safely increase Selenium intake to 400 mcg per day. For

myself...

> I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

breakfast, one

> with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

rest of

> my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to allow

me to

> take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased the

> levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter.... I

don't

> have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

times per

> day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the next

dose I

> don't feel down inbetween.

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

My goodness! You must spend your entire day splitting this and

splitting that! Very painstaking...and I am glad you have found a

way to make yourself feel well and for it all to work for you.

That's takes real stick-to-it-tiveness!!

> > I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

> breakfast, one

> > with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

> rest of

> > my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> > Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to

allow

> me to

> > take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased

the

> > levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter....

I

> don't

> > have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

> times per

> > day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the

next

> dose I

> > don't feel down inbetween.

> >

> > Topper ()

[Guest guest]

My goodness! You must spend your entire day splitting this and

splitting that! Very painstaking...and I am glad you have found a

way to make yourself feel well and for it all to work for you.

That's takes real stick-to-it-tiveness!!

> > I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

> breakfast, one

> > with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

> rest of

> > my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> > Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to

allow

> me to

> > take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased

the

> > levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter....

I

> don't

> > have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

> times per

> > day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the

next

> dose I

> > don't feel down inbetween.

> >

> > Topper ()

[Guest guest]

My goodness! You must spend your entire day splitting this and

splitting that! Very painstaking...and I am glad you have found a

way to make yourself feel well and for it all to work for you.

That's takes real stick-to-it-tiveness!!

> > I split my intake to 100 mcg three times per day, one with

> breakfast, one

> > with dinner, and one about an hour before bedtime when I take the

> rest of

> > my supplements.... I also have about 100 mcg of Selenium in my

> > Multi-vitamin that I take with each meal (I split the tabs to

allow

> me to

> > take one with each mini-meal) To me this seems to have increased

the

> > levels enough in my system to make me a pretty good converter....

I

> don't

> > have any roller coaster symptoms all day... I dose my thyroid 5

> times per

> > day.... but even though the T3 in that is worn off before the

next

> dose I

> > don't feel down inbetween.

> >

> > Topper ()

[Guest guest]

> I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid

involvement. Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels.

No results yet. How do they test or pituitry or parathyroid

involvement?

> Deborah

A clue to whether you have parathyroid involvement is high calcium

levels...not sure about the pituitary testing or what symptoms make

doctors look at that....but these are both things doctors who are not

paying attention tend to overlook...I seem to forget things I have no

reason to remeber...LOL

[Guest guest]

> I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid

involvement. Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels.

No results yet. How do they test or pituitry or parathyroid

involvement?

> Deborah

A clue to whether you have parathyroid involvement is high calcium

levels...not sure about the pituitary testing or what symptoms make

doctors look at that....but these are both things doctors who are not

paying attention tend to overlook...I seem to forget things I have no

reason to remeber...LOL

[Guest guest]

> I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid

involvement. Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels.

No results yet. How do they test or pituitry or parathyroid

involvement?

> Deborah

A clue to whether you have parathyroid involvement is high calcium

levels...not sure about the pituitary testing or what symptoms make

doctors look at that....but these are both things doctors who are not

paying attention tend to overlook...I seem to forget things I have no

reason to remeber...LOL

[Guest guest]

> , actually.... But if you're not getting it at 250 per day..

maybe

> you should up it.... 400 is the suggested top end.

>

> I'm at about 400 now...

>

> Topper ()

I can tell you what will happen with me...I will FORGET to take it

more than once a day - but I could up my evening dose. .

[Guest guest]

> , actually.... But if you're not getting it at 250 per day..

maybe

> you should up it.... 400 is the suggested top end.

>

> I'm at about 400 now...

>

> Topper ()

I can tell you what will happen with me...I will FORGET to take it

more than once a day - but I could up my evening dose. .

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> It's not a bad idea to get into the habit of popping vitamins, and

> selenium, with your meals. Vitamins work MUCH MUCH better when

taken with

> a meal.

>

> Topper ()

I do take them with my evening meal...but during the day, well, you

know how it is...everyone including my pups get what they need when

they need it,as many times a day as they need it.... but I can

scarcely take an extra moment in the course of the day thinking of

myself. diana

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> It's not a bad idea to get into the habit of popping vitamins, and

> selenium, with your meals. Vitamins work MUCH MUCH better when

taken with

> a meal.

>

> Topper ()

I do take them with my evening meal...but during the day, well, you

know how it is...everyone including my pups get what they need when

they need it,as many times a day as they need it.... but I can

scarcely take an extra moment in the course of the day thinking of

myself. diana

[Guest guest]

> I know one thing, that I have cracked a smile several times since

reading this list. , I love your wit and attitude. Keep it

coming. You are healing folks, when you make them laugh. I just know

it.

> Frannie

Yep - I second that... is a gem. And a smart cookie as well.

[Guest guest]

> Must be the other , can't be me.....

>

> Topper ()

The one who just ordered a curling iron for her leg hair.

[Guest guest]

> Must be the other , can't be me.....

>

> Topper ()

The one who just ordered a curling iron for her leg hair.

[Guest guest]

Actually just T4 can make you hyper as well. On .100 Levoxyl I felt

fine. On .112 I felt hyper and my TSH was .12. That was just on

Levoxyl, no cytomel.

Louise

> THere is a lot of confusion here, and I would like to clarify

something. It isn't the T4 that sends you into hyper. IT is the

T3. The shakey hands, heart palps, nervousness..that is all caused

by the T3. Those are the symptoms that a patient watches for when

increasing the T3/T4 meds. A T3 rush is common and if only lasting a

few minutes is ok, when lasting longer it isn't good and the patient

should lower the dose the next dosing, if take any at all for that

period. Yes the T4 takes longer to get into the system, yet doesn't

have the same effect as T3. Thats why a person will know almost

immediately if they have too much Armour for that dose because it is

the T3 that causes the hyper symptoms.

> Patti

> PS..Also some are sensitive more than others...and each person is

an individual...and you don't know until you try for yourself. So

being on the safe side go slowly..

> Re: Re: discouraged and whining

>

>

> That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd

been on

> the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter

tablet

> (1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on

hoping

> that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much

for me..

> but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the

beast was

> back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the

beast and

> I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days..

but then

> started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay

now..

> but it's been a pretty crappy month.

>

> I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I

consider

> that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose

for weeks

> and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level

of excess

> in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot

longer to

> purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then

getting

> back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and

your

> body...

>

> Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to

90 to

> 60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69

right now,

> I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back

up... it's

> should settle around 72 again.

>

> Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but

I'm

> feeling great again.

>

> I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then

I will

> trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of

every

> day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering

if I

> might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight

loss and

> being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might

have been

> too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

> quarters).

>

> You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind

that

> what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8

weeks... so

> take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and

don't push

> it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down

and try

> again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT

wise....

>

> On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

> symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and

then

> wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know

enough to

> push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to

what

> your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are

only a

> guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

>

> Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have

to go

> through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be

feeling that

> lousy just because I was a smart a***.

>

> .... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me

a smart

> a**??

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 " <LestatL382@y...>

> writes:

> > The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you

take

> > today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build

up in

> > your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of

the 2

> > medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> > medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> > effects of the dose you were on.

> > I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> > story

> > of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication

and he

> > got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all

his

> > medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> > increasing his medication slowly.

> > Louise

>

>