Re: cats and my big problem

[Guest guest]

I think they have such places in Nevada or Reno. I don't know, but

most women I know don't like to be used for meaningless sex. It could

be a gender thing, but I for one, can't separate my emotions from the

act without a large dose of Tegretol.

Apple

" jim hankins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9922

> Apple: you're right, of course. The stupid double standard causes

> untold grief and virtually assures that huge chunks of the population,

> male and female, will probably never link up with a soulmate.

Sometimes

> I wish the government would get involved an set up an agency for

lonely

> single people to get together for safe physical contact or

> companionship without having to play all the silly social games. But

> that would be rather " Brave New World " -ish I fear. Well, I tried Great

> Expectations and that was a ripoff. Personal ads seem to be a bust as

> well.

>

[Guest guest]

I think they have such places in Nevada or Reno. I don't know, but

most women I know don't like to be used for meaningless sex. It could

be a gender thing, but I for one, can't separate my emotions from the

act without a large dose of Tegretol.

Apple

" jim hankins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9922

> Apple: you're right, of course. The stupid double standard causes

> untold grief and virtually assures that huge chunks of the population,

> male and female, will probably never link up with a soulmate.

Sometimes

> I wish the government would get involved an set up an agency for

lonely

> single people to get together for safe physical contact or

> companionship without having to play all the silly social games. But

> that would be rather " Brave New World " -ish I fear. Well, I tried Great

> Expectations and that was a ripoff. Personal ads seem to be a bust as

> well.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, but didn't you and say women like meaningless sex as much

as men? I don't mean to be argumentative, but it just seems like we get

mixed signals about this. As far as getting attached to the other

person, I hear what you say. I can't have sex with a woman without

bonding on some level or other. I don't understand guys who seem to be

able to walk away from one-night stands so easily. And I'm sure as hell

not a saint myself.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, but didn't you and say women like meaningless sex as much

as men? I don't mean to be argumentative, but it just seems like we get

mixed signals about this. As far as getting attached to the other

person, I hear what you say. I can't have sex with a woman without

bonding on some level or other. I don't understand guys who seem to be

able to walk away from one-night stands so easily. And I'm sure as hell

not a saint myself.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, but didn't you and say women like meaningless sex as much

as men? I don't mean to be argumentative, but it just seems like we get

mixed signals about this. As far as getting attached to the other

person, I hear what you say. I can't have sex with a woman without

bonding on some level or other. I don't understand guys who seem to be

able to walk away from one-night stands so easily. And I'm sure as hell

not a saint myself.

[Guest guest]

That's what I thought. I just turned 28 myself, isolate quite a bit and

haven't even finished college yet; imagine my chagrin to learn my life's

already almost half spent.

In a message dated 11/28/99 3:36:38 PM Central Standard Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< You are planning to die awful young, Matt.

---

Kayleigh >>

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for , but that's not what I said. I was just

curious about the gender specific suggestion to have meaningless sex.

I think a lot of men think that deep down women like working at strip

clubs and posing for porn. I think it's just a form of oppression. I

find it more sad than anything else.

Apple

" jim hankins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9925

> Yeah, but didn't you and say women like meaningless sex as much

> as men? I don't mean to be argumentative, but it just seems like we

get

> mixed signals about this. As far as getting attached to the other

> person, I hear what you say. I can't have sex with a woman without

> bonding on some level or other. I don't understand guys who seem to be

> able to walk away from one-night stands so easily. And I'm sure as

hell

> not a saint myself.

>

[Guest guest]

You are planning to die awful young, Matt.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>Hey Kim. You sound exactly like me. I am the isolation junkie. One of the

>things that stuns me about my life right now, is that as I approach 28, I

>have no friends. Not a one. The only people I talk to are my co-workers

>and my family members. It terrifies me that my life is almost half over and

>I'm all alone.

> What do I want for Christmas? To have friends. Not 15 or 20 friends.

>Not like the beer commercials where the guys are sitting around the camp

>fire. I just want a few friends. People to do things with: go to movies,

>eat dinner, whatever. There are 6 billion people on this planet. And I

>have zero friends. I haven't had a date with a girl in two years.

> The isolationist. I know there's some part of me that likes it this

>way. Its comfortable for me, I don't have to worry about being hurt by

>people. The downside is I have to do everything by myself. And like you

>said Kim, work is very very hard for me. And my depressive urges seem to

>get a lot worse when I'm on the clock.

> I know I make my life sound pretty low and awful. Its really not. In

>fact I'd have a great life if I only could connect to people. The problem

>is I try to make sense of relationships like I would addictions or

>medications. I try to study and find logic in love. The thing is, there

>isn't any logic to love. Emotions don't make sense. As long as I try to

>find a magic equation to bonding with people I'm probably going to be

>hopelessly disconnected.

>This is one area I can't give advice in Kim. I just hope you know your not

>alone. Matt

>

>

>>

>>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>Subject: cats and my big problem

>>Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:27:39 -0800 (PST)

>>

>>

>> I have a cat buddy who lives a few blocks away. When

>>our schedules permit, I go over and call him and he

>>comes for a massage. (Wouldn't you?!!) But what I

>>really need is to be able to be around people.

>>

>> I'm serious. It has been 1 1/2 years and I am still

>>pretty much totally isolated. I have no contact with

>>my family(they are not supportive, to say the least)

>>and no old friends. My trouble is I cannot go to work

>>or at least not full time or I get suicidal thoughts

>>quite intensely and have to quit. I've been too

>>chicken after that to try part-time. I took a couple

>>fun courses but dropped out I got too anxious and

>>upset.

>>

>>

>> So as much as I appreciate the value of humour, and

>>of cats, I'm serious here!

>>

>> I am very frustrated that I can't seem to crack this

>>puzzle and no one else seems to be able to either. By

>>all means, give it a shot if you like. I WILL NOT GIVE

>>UP! I WILL NEVER GIVE UP! But it pisses me off!

>>

>> That's another thing. I don't seem to be able or

>>willing to get angy at the a-holes who treated me like

>>I was a piece of shit. It seems I need some people to

>>treat me nice first so I can see the contrast. But I

>>can't get around people if I'm going to get suicidal

>>thoughts, can I ?

>>

>>

>> I am going to try to get into a residential ex-cult

>>treatment thing.

>>

>>

>> Kim

>>__________________________________________________

>>

[Guest guest]

Without anti-depressants I score as very introverted on the Meyers-Briggs test.

With them, I score as mildly extroverted. Without, I am pretty withdrawn, and

don't mix with people much, which is fine with me. With, I am fairly outgoing,

engaging easily in dialogues with strangers. So it's easy for me to imagine

that Paxil may affect some people in a way approaching the depiction in the ad.

(Don't we all assume ads are exaggerated anyway?)

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>I have that article from US News and World Report on social anxiety. The

>article criticizes ads that portray Paxil as a " cure " for social phobia.

>I'm glad they did because no pill can turn a shy person into a social

>butterfly. But the paxil commercials promise just that. They show a shy

>man watching tv alone in his apartment. Then, later on they show him

>playing football in the park with a bunch of friends seemingly pulled out of

>a Gap commercial.

> I took paxi and while it did make me more socially comfortable, by no

>means did I turn into a man about town. A pill can't make a non-athletic

>person turn into Jordan. What paxil helped me to do was relax

>enough to finish a book (I could never concentrate before) and complete

>projects like cleaning my apartment!

> I didn't start throwing parties or having barbecues. And I couldn't

>remember playing football in the park(joke).

>

>

>>

>>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>>Subject: Re: cats and my big problem

>>Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 04:57:30 -0800

>>

>>They're advertising a new drug for a diagnosable disorder called

>> " social anxiety " . It is for people who fear rejection or ridicule in

>>social situations. The commercials are very frequent, and the first

>>time I heard it, I was thinking.. " new cure for social anxiety? they

>>must be advertising cocaine... " , but no, it is a new pill by the

>>manufacturers of Paxil.

>>Apple

>>

>> " wally t. " wrote:

>>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9888

>> > Hi Kim,

>> >

>> > It sounds like the kind of thing where a qualified psychologist or

>> > psychiatrist could help, but " advice " from the rest of us clowns

>>would be

>> > kind of pointless.

>> >

>> > I remember reading a magazine article a few months back about various

>>kinds

>> > of social anxiety and social phobias. It was in US News and World

>>Report &

>> > it was the cover story -- the headline was (I think) " How Shy is Too

>>Shy. "

>> > It said that in recent years the therapy profession was starting to

>>take

>> > these things more seriously and was developing ways of treating them,

>> > whereas in the past they had been dismissed as mere " shyness. " It

>>mentioned

>> > that sometimes the problem was acquired after some kind of trauma or a

>> > series of social disasters.

>> >

>> > Maybe I haven't thrown the mag out yet -- I'll look around. In any

>>case, a

>> > library would have back issues and I'm sure it was sometime this year.

>> >

>> > I'm amazed that you've kept your objectivity and sense of humour.

>> >

>> > Best Wishes,

>> > wally

>> >

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>>http://clickhere./click/1701

>>

>>

>>

>>eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

>> - Simplifying group communications

>>

>>

>>

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

>ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

>over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

>http://clickhere./click/1790

>

>-- Talk to your group with your own voice!

>-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

Kayleigh, I thought about that after I posted it. That " my life is half

over " line was pretty melodramatic and pessimistic. I think its my Mom

dying when she was 45, its kind of made me think of life as being very, very

short. Who knows, I'll probably live till I'm 90.

I'm one of those people who felt old at 13. Its just from growing up in an

ultra-serious family.

Seriously, I've been complaining about how old I am since I turned 19. I

mean, I'll turn 28 at the end of this month. In my mind, I'm over the hill.

I've just always felt overwhelmed and under pressure. Some of it real and

some of it imagined. Did my upbringing rob me of my youthful enthusiasm?

Probably. I have too many grey hairs and too many worry lines on my face to

be 27. You just have to put it into the context of my family. My family is

f'd up and thrives on one crisis after another. As a result, I don't see

life as an inexhaustible well. I don't plan 10 or 20 years ahead. When I

was 19 I swore I wouldn't make it to 25. And at 25 I swore I wouldn't make

it to 30.

Not because I'm trying to act like a bad ass who " lives fast and dies

young. " Its because in my erratic family we have a tendency to self

destruct of do ourselves in. I don't want to die young. I want to live a

long and happy life. But I know there are no guarantees that's going to

happen.

Thanks. Matt.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: cats and my big problem

>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:34:08 -0800

>

>You are planning to die awful young, Matt.

>---

>Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

> >Hey Kim. You sound exactly like me. I am the isolation junkie. One of

>the

> >things that stuns me about my life right now, is that as I approach 28, I

> >have no friends. Not a one. The only people I talk to are my co-workers

> >and my family members. It terrifies me that my life is almost half over

>and

> >I'm all alone.

> > What do I want for Christmas? To have friends. Not 15 or 20

>friends.

> >Not like the beer commercials where the guys are sitting around the camp

> >fire. I just want a few friends. People to do things with: go to

>movies,

> >eat dinner, whatever. There are 6 billion people on this planet. And I

> >have zero friends. I haven't had a date with a girl in two years.

> > The isolationist. I know there's some part of me that likes it this

> >way. Its comfortable for me, I don't have to worry about being hurt by

> >people. The downside is I have to do everything by myself. And like you

> >said Kim, work is very very hard for me. And my depressive urges seem to

> >get a lot worse when I'm on the clock.

> > I know I make my life sound pretty low and awful. Its really not.

>In

> >fact I'd have a great life if I only could connect to people. The

>problem

> >is I try to make sense of relationships like I would addictions or

> >medications. I try to study and find logic in love. The thing is, there

> >isn't any logic to love. Emotions don't make sense. As long as I try to

> >find a magic equation to bonding with people I'm probably going to be

> >hopelessly disconnected.

> >This is one area I can't give advice in Kim. I just hope you know your

>not

> >alone. Matt

> >

> >

> >>

> >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

> >>To: 12-step-freeegroups

> >>Subject: cats and my big problem

> >>Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:27:39 -0800 (PST)

> >>

> >>

> >> I have a cat buddy who lives a few blocks away. When

> >>our schedules permit, I go over and call him and he

> >>comes for a massage. (Wouldn't you?!!) But what I

> >>really need is to be able to be around people.

> >>

> >> I'm serious. It has been 1 1/2 years and I am still

> >>pretty much totally isolated. I have no contact with

> >>my family(they are not supportive, to say the least)

> >>and no old friends. My trouble is I cannot go to work

> >>or at least not full time or I get suicidal thoughts

> >>quite intensely and have to quit. I've been too

> >>chicken after that to try part-time. I took a couple

> >>fun courses but dropped out I got too anxious and

> >>upset.

> >>

> >>

> >> So as much as I appreciate the value of humour, and

> >>of cats, I'm serious here!

> >>

> >> I am very frustrated that I can't seem to crack this

> >>puzzle and no one else seems to be able to either. By

> >>all means, give it a shot if you like. I WILL NOT GIVE

> >>UP! I WILL NEVER GIVE UP! But it pisses me off!

> >>

> >> That's another thing. I don't seem to be able or

> >>willing to get angy at the a-holes who treated me like

> >>I was a piece of shit. It seems I need some people to

> >>treat me nice first so I can see the contrast. But I

> >>can't get around people if I'm going to get suicidal

> >>thoughts, can I ?

> >>

> >>

> >> I am going to try to get into a residential ex-cult

> >>treatment thing.

> >>

> >>

> >> Kim

> >>__________________________________________________

> >>

[Guest guest]

I'm afraid those ads for paxil simply promise too much. Its not as cut and

dry as, " take a pill, become sociable. " There are so many other factors

involved, like what made the person withdrawn in the first place. Could be

he or she was abused as a child. If this is the case, therapy is then

needed.

I agree paxil is a wonderful drug and can take the pressure off socializing.

But its not the whole ball game. And by the drug companies saying its a

cure for social phobia, a lot of shy people are in for a big let down.

Matt

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: cats and my big problem

>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:39:05 -0800

>

>Without anti-depressants I score as very introverted on the Meyers-Briggs

>test. With them, I score as mildly extroverted. Without, I am pretty

>withdrawn, and don't mix with people much, which is fine with me. With, I

>am fairly outgoing, engaging easily in dialogues with strangers. So it's

>easy for me to imagine that Paxil may affect some people in a way

>approaching the depiction in the ad. (Don't we all assume ads are

>exaggerated anyway?)

>---

>Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

> >I have that article from US News and World Report on social anxiety. The

> >article criticizes ads that portray Paxil as a " cure " for social phobia.

> >I'm glad they did because no pill can turn a shy person into a social

> >butterfly. But the paxil commercials promise just that. They show a shy

> >man watching tv alone in his apartment. Then, later on they show him

> >playing football in the park with a bunch of friends seemingly pulled out

>of

> >a Gap commercial.

> > I took paxi and while it did make me more socially comfortable, by

>no

> >means did I turn into a man about town. A pill can't make a non-athletic

> >person turn into Jordan. What paxil helped me to do was relax

> >enough to finish a book (I could never concentrate before) and complete

> >projects like cleaning my apartment!

> > I didn't start throwing parties or having barbecues. And I couldn't

> >remember playing football in the park(joke).

> >

> >

> >>

> >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

> >>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> >>Subject: Re: cats and my big problem

> >>Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 04:57:30 -0800

> >>

> >>They're advertising a new drug for a diagnosable disorder called

> >> " social anxiety " . It is for people who fear rejection or ridicule in

> >>social situations. The commercials are very frequent, and the first

> >>time I heard it, I was thinking.. " new cure for social anxiety? they

> >>must be advertising cocaine... " , but no, it is a new pill by the

> >>manufacturers of Paxil.

> >>Apple

> >>

> >> " wally t. " wrote:

> >>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9888

> >> > Hi Kim,

> >> >

> >> > It sounds like the kind of thing where a qualified psychologist or

> >> > psychiatrist could help, but " advice " from the rest of us clowns

> >>would be

> >> > kind of pointless.

> >> >

> >> > I remember reading a magazine article a few months back about various

> >>kinds

> >> > of social anxiety and social phobias. It was in US News and World

> >>Report &

> >> > it was the cover story -- the headline was (I think) " How Shy is Too

> >>Shy. "

> >> > It said that in recent years the therapy profession was starting to

> >>take

> >> > these things more seriously and was developing ways of treating them,

> >> > whereas in the past they had been dismissed as mere " shyness. " It

> >>mentioned

> >> > that sometimes the problem was acquired after some kind of trauma or

>a

> >> > series of social disasters.

> >> >

> >> > Maybe I haven't thrown the mag out yet -- I'll look around. In any

> >>case, a

> >> > library would have back issues and I'm sure it was sometime this

>year.

> >> >

> >> > I'm amazed that you've kept your objectivity and sense of humour.

> >> >

> >> > Best Wishes,

> >> > wally

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

> >>http://clickhere./click/1701

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> >> - Simplifying group communications

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >______________________________________________________

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

> >ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

> >over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

> >http://clickhere./click/1790

> >

> >-- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

>ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

>over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

>http://clickhere./click/1790

>

>-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

>-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Once again, I apologize about my " life is half over " line. Its the holidays

what can I say! I think most people live longer than 56.

I was reflecting my personal situation: my Mom dying at 45, my Grandfather

at 59. That's not the norm. And I have to realize there deaths doesn't

mean I'm gonna kick it early too.

Thanks. Matt

>From: Eudaimon84133110@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: cats and my big problem

>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:31:25 EST

>

>That's what I thought. I just turned 28 myself, isolate quite a bit and

>haven't even finished college yet; imagine my chagrin to learn my life's

>already almost half spent.

>

>

>In a message dated 11/28/99 3:36:38 PM Central Standard Time,

>kayleighs@... writes:

>

><< You are planning to die awful young, Matt.

> ---

> Kayleigh >>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

>ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

>over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

>http://clickhere./click/1790

>

>-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

>-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

" Meaningless " is a pretty big word. Somebody ought to say what they mean by it,

and make sure you all are talking about the same thing.

It seems to me that no one would engage in completely meaningless sex, because

what would motivate them to do it? Most people seem to say " meaningless " sex

when they want to convey that they are not committed to their partner, but are

terribly horny. Am I wrong about that?

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>Yeah, but didn't you and say women like meaningless sex as much

>as men? I don't mean to be argumentative, but it just seems like we get

>mixed signals about this. As far as getting attached to the other

>person, I hear what you say. I can't have sex with a woman without

>bonding on some level or other. I don't understand guys who seem to be

>able to walk away from one-night stands so easily. And I'm sure as hell

>not a saint myself.

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

>ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

>over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

>http://clickhere./click/1790

>

>-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

You're right Kayleigh, there's always some meaning. Saying it's

" meaningless " is either being in denial, or in my case,

self-deprecating humor. Thanks.