Guest guest Posted November 21, 1999 Report Share Posted November 21, 1999 You certainly have a way with words! I can't wait for the movie-I am sure it will make millions!! Yeh-the way 12-steppers think is so friggen' distorted. I also was leery of their tactics because I had read Orwell and Huxley in high school-there just seemed to be too many similarities. I think some 12-steppers are honestly concerned about others but they buy into the crapola ala Big (bullshit) Book. I am an avid reader of many books, but even though I went through treatment 4 or 5 times I could NEVER get through the damn book because it bored me so much. If I ever have a bout of insomnia, I think I will grab one of my numerous copies of the Big Book (of crap) and it will lull me better into dreamland than 50 mgs. of Valium!! ~Trixxi Allergy theory > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 months > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a long > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. It > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to tears > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector in > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of the > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as myself. > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really on > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > called eyewash. > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have become > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, anti-drinking > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based on > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most of > the others in the group knew this as well. > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an AA > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I thought > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy Grail, " > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got to > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism aren't > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to ask > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this mess > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to realize > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I was > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never got > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting me > share. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://clickhere./click/1701 > > > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 1999 Report Share Posted November 21, 1999 You certainly have a way with words! I can't wait for the movie-I am sure it will make millions!! Yeh-the way 12-steppers think is so friggen' distorted. I also was leery of their tactics because I had read Orwell and Huxley in high school-there just seemed to be too many similarities. I think some 12-steppers are honestly concerned about others but they buy into the crapola ala Big (bullshit) Book. I am an avid reader of many books, but even though I went through treatment 4 or 5 times I could NEVER get through the damn book because it bored me so much. If I ever have a bout of insomnia, I think I will grab one of my numerous copies of the Big Book (of crap) and it will lull me better into dreamland than 50 mgs. of Valium!! ~Trixxi Allergy theory > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 months > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a long > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. It > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to tears > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector in > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of the > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as myself. > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really on > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > called eyewash. > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have become > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, anti-drinking > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based on > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most of > the others in the group knew this as well. > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an AA > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I thought > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy Grail, " > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got to > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism aren't > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to ask > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this mess > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to realize > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I was > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never got > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting me > share. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://clickhere./click/1701 > > > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 1999 Report Share Posted November 21, 1999 jim, i can related to your frustration. i have a failry inquistive mind, and when i got sober i naturally wanted to understand what it was that made me special to have this " disease " . i asked around my meeting and was told the allergy bit, etc. when that wasnt enough and i wanted specfic anwsers not analogies, i was told that " knowledge never kept anyone sober " . and that only by doing what they did, could anyone be sober. still didnt anwser my question but it shut my new comer mouth up. what it really was doin was teaching a lesson that ignorance is bliss, faith is equated with recovery, and dont rock the boat. dave " jim hankins " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9674 > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 months > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a long > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. It > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to tears > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector in > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of the > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as myself. > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really on > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > called eyewash. > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have become > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, anti-drinking > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based on > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most of > the others in the group knew this as well. > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an AA > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I thought > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy Grail, " > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got to > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism aren't > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to ask > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this mess > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to realize > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I was > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never got > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting me > share. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 1999 Report Share Posted November 21, 1999 jim, i can related to your frustration. i have a failry inquistive mind, and when i got sober i naturally wanted to understand what it was that made me special to have this " disease " . i asked around my meeting and was told the allergy bit, etc. when that wasnt enough and i wanted specfic anwsers not analogies, i was told that " knowledge never kept anyone sober " . and that only by doing what they did, could anyone be sober. still didnt anwser my question but it shut my new comer mouth up. what it really was doin was teaching a lesson that ignorance is bliss, faith is equated with recovery, and dont rock the boat. dave " jim hankins " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9674 > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 months > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a long > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. It > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to tears > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector in > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of the > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as myself. > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really on > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > called eyewash. > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have become > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, anti-drinking > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based on > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most of > the others in the group knew this as well. > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an AA > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I thought > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy Grail, " > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got to > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism aren't > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to ask > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this mess > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to realize > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I was > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never got > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting me > share. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 1999 Report Share Posted November 21, 1999 I spent a few eons in AA and I never could get thru the big book either. Not only is it boring but it is hokey and sooooo outdated. Big Book discussion groups, never understood it, there wasn't a whole lot of substance to discuss. You couldn't pay me to read the big book, it wouldn't be a valium to me more like one of those drugs to induce vomitting. Couldn't read it anyway that thing was thrown in the trash about eight years ago. Suzy > You certainly have a way with words! I can't wait for the movie-I am sure it > will make millions!! > Yeh-the way 12-steppers think is so friggen' distorted. I also was leery of > their tactics because I had read Orwell and Huxley in high school-there just > seemed to be too many similarities. I think some 12-steppers are honestly > concerned about others but they buy into the crapola ala Big (bullshit) > Book. I am an avid reader of many books, but even though I went through > treatment 4 or 5 times I could NEVER get through the damn book because it > bored me so much. If I ever have a bout of insomnia, I think I will grab > one of my numerous copies of the Big Book (of crap) and it will lull me > better into dreamland than 50 mgs. of Valium!! > ~Trixxi > Allergy theory > > > > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 months > > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a long > > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. It > > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to tears > > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector in > > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of the > > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as myself. > > > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really on > > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > > called eyewash. > > > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have become > > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, anti-drinking > > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based on > > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most of > > the others in the group knew this as well. > > > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an AA > > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I thought > > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy Grail, " > > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got to > > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism aren't > > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to ask > > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this mess > > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to realize > > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I was > > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never got > > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting me > > share. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 i recycled mine in a compost heap. seemed a waste to throw away all that paper. dave " suzy " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9679 > I spent a few eons in AA and I never could get thru the big book > either. Not only is it boring but it is hokey and sooooo outdated. > Big Book discussion groups, never understood it, there wasn't a whole > lot of substance to discuss. You couldn't pay me to read the big book, > it wouldn't be a valium to me more like one of those drugs to induce > vomitting. Couldn't read it anyway that thing was thrown in the trash > about eight years ago. > Suzy > > You certainly have a way with words! I can't wait for the movie-I am > sure it > > will make millions!! > > Yeh-the way 12-steppers think is so friggen' distorted. I also was > leery of > > their tactics because I had read Orwell and Huxley in high > school-there just > > seemed to be too many similarities. I think some 12-steppers are > honestly > > concerned about others but they buy into the crapola ala Big > (bullshit) > > Book. I am an avid reader of many books, but even though I went > through > > treatment 4 or 5 times I could NEVER get through the damn book > because it > > bored me so much. If I ever have a bout of insomnia, I think I will > grab > > one of my numerous copies of the Big Book (of crap) and it will lull > me > > better into dreamland than 50 mgs. of Valium!! > > ~Trixxi > > Allergy theory > > > > > > > Fellow stinkin' thinkers (phew! you guys ever wash those brains?): > > > > > > I've been going to AA or NA practically every day for the last 8 > months > > > or so, intermittently for a year before that. How I got there is a > long > > > story that I plan to exploit as a big-buck screenplay starring > > > Jean-Claude Van Damme as myself and Fiona Apple as the waifish > > > temptress who got me started down the black tar road to perdition. > It > > > would be too long to post here and would probably move you all to > tears > > > of sympathy that might short out your keyboards. > > > > > > Suffice it to say I should have listened when the bullshit detector > in > > > my brain started blaring the moment a 12-step counselor told me I > > > absolutely had to get some kind of God to replace heroin (opiate of > the > > > people indeed!), but I naively agreed to keep an open mind when told > > > that 12-steps was the best (and only) hope for junkies such as > myself. > > > > > > Anyway, the last few months I've finally dared to say what's really > on > > > my mind in meetings, lulled by assurances that you can express any > > > opinion in AA/NA. As you know, that's a bunch of what Orwell once > > > called eyewash. > > > > > > I was not particularly surprised that Steppers hate it when someone > > > points out that the program doesn't have a particularly successful > > > recovery rate, but I was shocked to see how attached they have > become > > > to the allergy theory proposed by Dr. Silkworth in the first part of > > > the Big Book. I mean, I sat through a lot of anti-drug, > anti-drinking > > > lectures in public school, but this allergy angle was totally new to > > > me. I just assumed that it was an educated guess by Silkworth based > on > > > what was known pre-1939, that it had been discredited and that most > of > > > the others in the group knew this as well. > > > > > > Then a very sweet guy in one of my AA meetings gave me a copy of an > AA > > > book, " Living Sober, " published in the '70s. It says that even AA > > > eventually recognized that alcoholism is not an allergy. So I > thought > > > it would be safe to bring this up at a meeting. Boy was I wrong! > > > > > > The hardcore AA people don't like anyone to " fuck with the Holy > Grail, " > > > as one guy put it. If it's in the first 164 pages, by God it's got > to > > > be true! Even if the national GSC officially disowns it. > > > > > > I can't believe how rabidly the Stepnazis cling to this nonsense. It > > > doesn't do any good to point out that allergies and alcoholism > aren't > > > even in the same chapter of the medical textbooks. Doesn't help to > ask > > > why antihistamines and steroids don't cure alcoholism or to ask them > > > why allergists don't double as addictionologists. > > > > > > So anyway, I think I've finally had enough of meetings. These people > > > have made ignorance their Higher Power. I don't want what they have. > > > I've been sticking around hoping I could make lemonade out of this > mess > > > by perhaps helping a like-minded person, but I'm beginning to > realize > > > the situation is probably hopeless. I will certainly miss the nice, > > > reasonable people in the meetings, but unfortunately they don't do > > > enough to keep the assholes in check. Also, I deeply regret that I > was > > > never 13th-stepped. Probably the only guy in AA history who never > got > > > lucky at a meeting. Well, time to face reality. Thanks for letting > me > > > share. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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