Re: WGT

[Guest guest]

Hi, WGT.

" Confusion can be a sign of depression. Here's a few more that I see in what

you have written (in no particular order):

-- difficulty making decisions ( " no direction " , " don't know what to do " )

-- constant feeling of tiredness

-- apathy, anomie ( " no invigorating goals " )

-- non-specific anxiety ( " scared " , " restlessness " )

-- guilt, self-blame ( " I have made too many mistakes " , " screwed MYSELF up " )

-- thoughts about suicide

-- negative filtering ( " long series of failures and disappointments " )

-- increased isolation ( " few friends... ones I used to have " ) "

I'd say you're not far off the mark!

" Hope you don't take this as criticism! I've been there, and I know how hard

it is to recognize this stuff when you're in it. You sound a lot like me in

my late twenties/early thirties. "

Yes, it can be a bit of a grope in the dark.

" The solutions are:

(1) Sometimes it goes away on its own, especially if you don't use drugs or

drink. "

I don't seem to drink much, I will typically have zero to four beers in an

evening. Occasionally it will be six or seven, never more than nine. About

once every three months or so I get stoned. I guess what I'm afraid of more

than anything is the notion that I will never get my shit together, and am

doomed to confusion and fear for the rest of my life. It seems like I've been

trying to get my act together for years, with botch to show for it.

" (2) Cognitive therapy (perhaps just through self-help.) "

Any pointers on how to do this with oneself, or how to get started at least?

" (3) Those prescription drugs that almost everybody but me takes these days. "

I've been on numerous, they don't seem to change much; the last one was

Effexor, prescribed by doctors at the community health center who would talk

to be for all of about five minutes every three or four months.

" (4) And I know you said don't recommend a therapist, but the fact is that

depression CAN BE a serious thing and hard to shake on your own, and you

might need to find one at some point. (It is possible that your impression

that they are full of shit stems from your being in AA and their focusing on

whatever substance abuse problem put you there.) "

I think I might just stick with this e-list and the cog therapy. I have

several excellent self-help books, but find I have trouble following through

on their suggestions. Maybe I could report my progress to this list, and that

would give me a sense of continuity I tend to miss when I try to do it on my

own. I think it might be fun and stimulating to hear others observations

about my reports, and their commentary about their own similar endeavors.

" Being in your twenties, having a good job that you're good at, being smart,

and having good self-discipline are tremendous advantages that make your

problem highly solvable. You can have a great life! "

My god, you don't know how relieving it is to hear someone say that! Or maybe

you do...

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

....

>

> " (2) Cognitive therapy (perhaps just through self-help.) "

>

>Any pointers on how to do this with oneself, or how to get started at

least?

>

The book that clicked for me was Burns' 'Feeling Good'. A couple of the

folks on the list have dumped on it, so perhaps there is something better.

But I'll never know, since I don't intend to read any more books about

recovery, psychology, or self-help during this particular lifetime. Enough

is enough!

At any rate, Burns has some very concrete exercises that aren't hard to

actually do. Pick one close to the beginning of the book, and try it out for

a day or two. Read enough to make sure you know what you're s'posed to be

doing. Then if it seems to make sense, or at least isn't too much trouble,

continue. Or maybe pick one of the others, or take a couple of the

evaluation-type tests, or just read a couple of the chapters that seem

relevant.

Try to avoid mastering the whole thing in three days and then, when you're

not plunged instantly into a state of cosmic bliss, saying " What's the use,

I knew it wouldn't work anyhow, because I'm just totally hopeless and no

good and all this damned book did was prove it once again... " which would be

a typical depressive approach.

I think I've read all your 12sf posts, and I haven't spotted any problems

that you have that I didn't (including people-fear after the break-up of a

relationship). Eventually I either outgrew or solved everything. I like to

think that I might have done it quicker if, 20 years ago, somebody had

convinced me to avoid the AA trap and mainly focus on the depression.

Keep the faith(*),

wally

(*) in yourself!

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

....

>

> " (2) Cognitive therapy (perhaps just through self-help.) "

>

>Any pointers on how to do this with oneself, or how to get started at

least?

>

The book that clicked for me was Burns' 'Feeling Good'. A couple of the

folks on the list have dumped on it, so perhaps there is something better.

But I'll never know, since I don't intend to read any more books about

recovery, psychology, or self-help during this particular lifetime. Enough

is enough!

At any rate, Burns has some very concrete exercises that aren't hard to

actually do. Pick one close to the beginning of the book, and try it out for

a day or two. Read enough to make sure you know what you're s'posed to be

doing. Then if it seems to make sense, or at least isn't too much trouble,

continue. Or maybe pick one of the others, or take a couple of the

evaluation-type tests, or just read a couple of the chapters that seem

relevant.

Try to avoid mastering the whole thing in three days and then, when you're

not plunged instantly into a state of cosmic bliss, saying " What's the use,

I knew it wouldn't work anyhow, because I'm just totally hopeless and no

good and all this damned book did was prove it once again... " which would be

a typical depressive approach.

I think I've read all your 12sf posts, and I haven't spotted any problems

that you have that I didn't (including people-fear after the break-up of a

relationship). Eventually I either outgrew or solved everything. I like to

think that I might have done it quicker if, 20 years ago, somebody had

convinced me to avoid the AA trap and mainly focus on the depression.

Keep the faith(*),

wally

(*) in yourself!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/99 11:24:18 PM Central Standard Time,

wgt@... writes:

<<

I think I've read all your 12sf posts, and I haven't spotted any problems

that you have that I didn't (including people-fear after the break-up of a

relationship). Eventually I either outgrew or solved everything. I like to

think that I might have done it quicker if, 20 years ago, somebody had

convinced me to avoid the AA trap and mainly focus on the depression.

>>

I appreciate your replies. I get pretty scared sometimes that I am doomed to

a life of confusion, loneliness and botched attempts to organize myself, like

today, like right now. I keep planning to sit down and make some kind of plan

for myself, or read one of several excellent self help books and follow the

suggestions, but every time I attempt to do that I wind up right back at

square one, all but forgetting the attempt. How do you keep yourself on track

in the preliminary period? I have tried keeping notes on myself, journalling,

making " progress charts " for myself, etc. all apparently to no avail. This

pattern has been going on for years, and I'm pretty fed up and disgusted with

it and often with myself for screwing it up.

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

>I appreciate your replies. I get pretty scared sometimes that I am doomed

to

>a life of confusion, loneliness and botched attempts to organize myself,

like

>today, like right now. I keep planning to sit down and make some kind of

plan

>for myself, or read one of several excellent self help books and follow the

>suggestions, but every time I attempt to do that I wind up right back at

>square one, all but forgetting the attempt.

Dang, Eudie, your posts almost make me nostalgic :-)

I used to beat myself up for my failure to " organize myself. " What if I had

succeeded? Then (given the way I conceived of it) my life would have been

overly controlled and inflexible. In reality, EVERYBODY organizes some

things and leaves others to chance or the inspiration of the moment. The

dividing line varies, depending on individual personality style and

preference. Change is incremental and not linear.

It might help to take all but one of those self-help books and put them in a

back corner of some dark closet. Think about how much easier it would be to

not read just one of them, as opposed to not reading 10 or 20 all at the

same time ;-).

>How do you keep yourself on track

>in the preliminary period? I have tried keeping notes on myself,

journalling,

>making " progress charts " for myself, etc. all apparently to no avail. This

>pattern has been going on for years, and I'm pretty fed up and disgusted

with

>it and often with myself for screwing it up.

Sometimes the best thing to do at the moment is to just forget it, go for a

walk in the park or go to a movie theater. Focusing too much on oneself is

part of the problem.

ly, at the very beginning I needed a therapist, if only to take some of

the burden off myself. I got lucky and blundered my way to one who was

competent. I still doubt very much that I could have dug out all on my own.

Constructive self-help came later.

--wally