Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 appledtp@... writes: > A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what > emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich > and worthwhile. I think the key phrase here is " appropriately used. " I've seen far too many people excuse hateful, hurtful behavior because " it's how I feel. " I think a balance needs to be struck between the needs of the individual and the expectations of society at large. A certain degree of etiquette is necessary to the functioning of any group of human beings, at any place, at any time. It may be defined differently according to time, place, or circumstance, but it's always there. I would suggest that an alternative hypothesis for outbreaks of public violence is that more and more people feel that only their own needs are important, and that everyone else in the world is obliged to put up with them regardless of what they say or do. Or even applaud them for it, because to express disapproval might damage their " self-esteem. " When reality does not conform to the unrealistic expectations of such people, they feel no remorse for destroying what makes them unhappy, even if it is other individuals' lives they are violently ending. Complete and utter selfishness, behaving any way one likes because one " feels " like it is no more healthy than continually repressing one's emotions. Once any nominal strictures are removed, it is far too easy for people who see in black and white to use this freedom as carte blanche to be offensive. Again, I think that it's worth repeating that a balance needs to be struck. Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to the other might be temporarily satisfying, but in the end accomplishes just as little. > If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are > fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she > can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and > full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event > is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the > child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The > incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that behaving in a quite literally infantile fashion is any kind of solution for a supposedly mature adult. One hopes people grow out of the need for instant self-gratification and throwing temper tantrums, rather than seeing it as something worthy of emulation. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 appledtp@... writes: > A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what > emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich > and worthwhile. I think the key phrase here is " appropriately used. " I've seen far too many people excuse hateful, hurtful behavior because " it's how I feel. " I think a balance needs to be struck between the needs of the individual and the expectations of society at large. A certain degree of etiquette is necessary to the functioning of any group of human beings, at any place, at any time. It may be defined differently according to time, place, or circumstance, but it's always there. I would suggest that an alternative hypothesis for outbreaks of public violence is that more and more people feel that only their own needs are important, and that everyone else in the world is obliged to put up with them regardless of what they say or do. Or even applaud them for it, because to express disapproval might damage their " self-esteem. " When reality does not conform to the unrealistic expectations of such people, they feel no remorse for destroying what makes them unhappy, even if it is other individuals' lives they are violently ending. Complete and utter selfishness, behaving any way one likes because one " feels " like it is no more healthy than continually repressing one's emotions. Once any nominal strictures are removed, it is far too easy for people who see in black and white to use this freedom as carte blanche to be offensive. Again, I think that it's worth repeating that a balance needs to be struck. Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to the other might be temporarily satisfying, but in the end accomplishes just as little. > If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are > fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she > can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and > full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event > is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the > child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The > incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that behaving in a quite literally infantile fashion is any kind of solution for a supposedly mature adult. One hopes people grow out of the need for instant self-gratification and throwing temper tantrums, rather than seeing it as something worthy of emulation. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 appledtp@... writes: > A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what > emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich > and worthwhile. I think the key phrase here is " appropriately used. " I've seen far too many people excuse hateful, hurtful behavior because " it's how I feel. " I think a balance needs to be struck between the needs of the individual and the expectations of society at large. A certain degree of etiquette is necessary to the functioning of any group of human beings, at any place, at any time. It may be defined differently according to time, place, or circumstance, but it's always there. I would suggest that an alternative hypothesis for outbreaks of public violence is that more and more people feel that only their own needs are important, and that everyone else in the world is obliged to put up with them regardless of what they say or do. Or even applaud them for it, because to express disapproval might damage their " self-esteem. " When reality does not conform to the unrealistic expectations of such people, they feel no remorse for destroying what makes them unhappy, even if it is other individuals' lives they are violently ending. Complete and utter selfishness, behaving any way one likes because one " feels " like it is no more healthy than continually repressing one's emotions. Once any nominal strictures are removed, it is far too easy for people who see in black and white to use this freedom as carte blanche to be offensive. Again, I think that it's worth repeating that a balance needs to be struck. Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to the other might be temporarily satisfying, but in the end accomplishes just as little. > If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are > fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she > can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and > full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event > is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the > child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The > incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that behaving in a quite literally infantile fashion is any kind of solution for a supposedly mature adult. One hopes people grow out of the need for instant self-gratification and throwing temper tantrums, rather than seeing it as something worthy of emulation. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Looks fine to me, and as you say, it does need an ending. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hi gang! >I'm trying to rewrite the emotions piece for the site. Any comments. If >anyone wants to touch up the grammar for sentence flow that would be >appreciated. It feels a little chunky as is. Also, it needs a catchy >ending. >Apple > >What happens when feelings such as anger, grief or dissatisfaction are >ignored, denied or covered up for long periods of time? Just turn on >the evening news to find out! High school shootings, child abuse, >pilots navigating a planeful of passengers into the sea, workplace >massacres... Ever hear of the expression " going postal " ? > >Or, the opposite may happen. If strong feelings are not released >outward in acts of violence, they may be released inward as >self-destructive behavior, sometimes resulting in suicide. > >The good news is that violence, suicide or drinking oneself silly do >not have to be the only options! Competent therapists exist . There is >help available, and there are constructive ways of dealing with strong >emotions. Emotions do not kill. Emotions denied may. Writing, >talking, screaming (in a non-destructive way), crying, art and music >are all ways of expressing strong emotions constructively. > >Why do people stuff their emotions? Because everything in our society >encourages and rewards emotional control. Men are socialized to stuff >their tender feelings (otherwise they are seen as weak sissies), women >are socialized to temper their anger (otherwise they are seen as >bitches). What a disservice this is to our natural human development! >It does not matter which end of the continuum emotions are clipped, >there is a price paid to be paid in either case. When anger is denied, >rage starts to build up inside. The Avon lady who is " always " nice is >actually seething with rage on the inside. The truck driver who is as >tough as nails is actually a frightened little boy on the inside. Why? >Because by nature, humans are whole. Extreme outer projections or >toughness, " niceness " , purity, etc. frequently mask the opposite >internal condition. We've all heard of those righteous and pure >ministers who are closet child molesters... > >If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are >fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she >can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and >full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event >is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the >child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The >incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. > >Babies don't need drugs or drink to feel alive. They feel alive because >they fully experience and express their emotions. While I am not >suggesting that people wail like infants over food arriving late at a >restaurant, I am suggesting that a full emotional life where feelings >are honored and expressed constructively is the goal to work toward. > >But AA does not set out to awaken people's emotional worlds. Far from >it! " Serenity " is set forth as the emotional goal... serenity being an >emotional state <B>devoid</B> of notable highs or lows! Members are >taught to avoid strong emotions! If they do experience strong emotions >they may be shamed for having an emotional relapse, or labeled dry >drunks. Emotional flatness, by standards of modern psychology, is >unhealthy. A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what >emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich >and worthwhile. > >Because members try to maintain the precarious state of Serenity, but >at the same time, are often hiding deep emotional pain, they are >frequently living life as emotional time bombs. This is why expression >of deep emotions is often discouraged in meetings. Members are to > " work the program " on their strong feelings, so they don't feel them >with intensity, and most importantly, so they don't express them. . >The fear is that one person's " time-bomb " (the expression of strong >emotion)... will detonate the entire mine field. > >Instead of building up the strength to finally open the Pandora's box >of repressed emotions which has been neglected by years of drinking, >then fully experiencing and attaching the proper feelings to past life >events, many people fail to address these issues at all. Why? For >several reasons. Firstly, AA suggests that people " let go " of the past >in a wave-of-the-hand type of gesture -- to get off the pity pot and >focus on the " important " things, like spreading the 12 step virus to >others. Also, for many it seems too terrifying to go inside and face >the truth of the past! Thus by failing to go back and grieve their own >pains and losses, they never develop the emotional sensitivity which >is needed to make life pleasurable and which will allow them to be able >to empathize with the pain of others. This is why so many sponsors are >insensitive louts. Instead of dealing with the scary past, members >learn to exist in the spiritual fishbowl of AA, riding on the intense >social high meanwhile mistakenly attributing their deadened spirit to >the " disease " of alcoholism. The intense social high and the rituals >of AA keeps the flame from the fuse. Emotions stay hidden and under >wraps behind a facade of gratitude for the program and the emotional >pretense of serenity. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 butterbeana@... writes: > I went to a nudist resort in Florida once. LOTS of the guests were from > Europe. Where in Florida? It sounds like a nice, relaxed sort of place to go and hang out. (Mainly bcause most of the guests are European and won't have typical American hang-ups, of course.) Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 Hi Apple. I agreed with every word! Very good piece. I especially liked the paragraph about how babies are emotionally honest and healthy. It breaks my heart to be around children. How they are so free with their emotions and feelings. They just appear so untarnished, so unaffected by the world. Its a shame most kids lose that around puberty. Some retain that youthful glow, but most become hardened adults. I've often wondered if the US backward view of sexuality hurts a lot of teens experiencing puberty. Violence is so accepted here on tv. But nudity is forbidden. Maybe the Europeans have one up on us. They always look so uninhibited on tv. So free and self accepting. Were as Americans are uptight by comparison. I do believe the US has got to be what the most emotionally screwed up countries (among the democratic ones). Because of our reliance on religion to set the rules. And because we still see sex as dirty and sinful and something that should be suppressed. I think AA reflects society in this sense. Anything drowning in religion will naturally screw up its members emotional stability. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Emotions piece >Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:39:26 -0800 > >Hi gang! >I'm trying to rewrite the emotions piece for the site. Any comments. If >anyone wants to touch up the grammar for sentence flow that would be >appreciated. It feels a little chunky as is. Also, it needs a catchy >ending. >Apple > >What happens when feelings such as anger, grief or dissatisfaction are >ignored, denied or covered up for long periods of time? Just turn on >the evening news to find out! High school shootings, child abuse, >pilots navigating a planeful of passengers into the sea, workplace >massacres... Ever hear of the expression " going postal " ? > >Or, the opposite may happen. If strong feelings are not released >outward in acts of violence, they may be released inward as >self-destructive behavior, sometimes resulting in suicide. > >The good news is that violence, suicide or drinking oneself silly do >not have to be the only options! Competent therapists exist . There is >help available, and there are constructive ways of dealing with strong >emotions. Emotions do not kill. Emotions denied may. Writing, >talking, screaming (in a non-destructive way), crying, art and music >are all ways of expressing strong emotions constructively. > >Why do people stuff their emotions? Because everything in our society >encourages and rewards emotional control. Men are socialized to stuff >their tender feelings (otherwise they are seen as weak sissies), women >are socialized to temper their anger (otherwise they are seen as >bitches). What a disservice this is to our natural human development! >It does not matter which end of the continuum emotions are clipped, >there is a price paid to be paid in either case. When anger is denied, >rage starts to build up inside. The Avon lady who is " always " nice is >actually seething with rage on the inside. The truck driver who is as >tough as nails is actually a frightened little boy on the inside. Why? >Because by nature, humans are whole. Extreme outer projections or >toughness, " niceness " , purity, etc. frequently mask the opposite >internal condition. We've all heard of those righteous and pure >ministers who are closet child molesters... > >If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are >fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she >can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and >full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event >is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the >child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The >incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. > >Babies don't need drugs or drink to feel alive. They feel alive because >they fully experience and express their emotions. While I am not >suggesting that people wail like infants over food arriving late at a >restaurant, I am suggesting that a full emotional life where feelings >are honored and expressed constructively is the goal to work toward. > >But AA does not set out to awaken people's emotional worlds. Far from >it! " Serenity " is set forth as the emotional goal... serenity being an >emotional state <B>devoid</B> of notable highs or lows! Members are >taught to avoid strong emotions! If they do experience strong emotions >they may be shamed for having an emotional relapse, or labeled dry >drunks. Emotional flatness, by standards of modern psychology, is >unhealthy. A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what >emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich >and worthwhile. > >Because members try to maintain the precarious state of Serenity, but >at the same time, are often hiding deep emotional pain, they are >frequently living life as emotional time bombs. This is why expression >of deep emotions is often discouraged in meetings. Members are to > " work the program " on their strong feelings, so they don't feel them >with intensity, and most importantly, so they don't express them. . >The fear is that one person's " time-bomb " (the expression of strong >emotion)... will detonate the entire mine field. > >Instead of building up the strength to finally open the Pandora's box >of repressed emotions which has been neglected by years of drinking, >then fully experiencing and attaching the proper feelings to past life >events, many people fail to address these issues at all. Why? For >several reasons. Firstly, AA suggests that people " let go " of the past >in a wave-of-the-hand type of gesture -- to get off the pity pot and >focus on the " important " things, like spreading the 12 step virus to >others. Also, for many it seems too terrifying to go inside and face >the truth of the past! Thus by failing to go back and grieve their own >pains and losses, they never develop the emotional sensitivity which >is needed to make life pleasurable and which will allow them to be able >to empathize with the pain of others. This is why so many sponsors are >insensitive louts. Instead of dealing with the scary past, members >learn to exist in the spiritual fishbowl of AA, riding on the intense >social high meanwhile mistakenly attributing their deadened spirit to >the " disease " of alcoholism. The intense social high and the rituals >of AA keeps the flame from the fuse. Emotions stay hidden and under >wraps behind a facade of gratitude for the program and the emotional >pretense of serenity. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 Yeah-seperation of church and state. WHAT A CROCK! Everytime some 'disaster' occurs in the USA, all the politicrits say " We have them in our prayers " . Or " (whoever) was an upright and god fearing man/women. BLEH! If some disaster strikes me I don't want any damn prayers...just rescue me if possible or let me die without ANY religious overtones. I went to a nudist resort in Florida once. LOTS of the guests were from Europe. I also have internet friends in Europe. They are very nice, openminded people. Makes me feel like moving to Amsterdam or some such non anal city in Europe. ~Trixxi Emotions piece > >Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:39:26 -0800 > > > >Hi gang! > >I'm trying to rewrite the emotions piece for the site. Any comments. If > >anyone wants to touch up the grammar for sentence flow that would be > >appreciated. It feels a little chunky as is. Also, it needs a catchy > >ending. > >Apple > > > >What happens when feelings such as anger, grief or dissatisfaction are > >ignored, denied or covered up for long periods of time? Just turn on > >the evening news to find out! High school shootings, child abuse, > >pilots navigating a planeful of passengers into the sea, workplace > >massacres... Ever hear of the expression " going postal " ? > > > >Or, the opposite may happen. If strong feelings are not released > >outward in acts of violence, they may be released inward as > >self-destructive behavior, sometimes resulting in suicide. > > > >The good news is that violence, suicide or drinking oneself silly do > >not have to be the only options! Competent therapists exist . There is > >help available, and there are constructive ways of dealing with strong > >emotions. Emotions do not kill. Emotions denied may. Writing, > >talking, screaming (in a non-destructive way), crying, art and music > >are all ways of expressing strong emotions constructively. > > > >Why do people stuff their emotions? Because everything in our society > >encourages and rewards emotional control. Men are socialized to stuff > >their tender feelings (otherwise they are seen as weak sissies), women > >are socialized to temper their anger (otherwise they are seen as > >bitches). What a disservice this is to our natural human development! > >It does not matter which end of the continuum emotions are clipped, > >there is a price paid to be paid in either case. When anger is denied, > >rage starts to build up inside. The Avon lady who is " always " nice is > >actually seething with rage on the inside. The truck driver who is as > >tough as nails is actually a frightened little boy on the inside. Why? > >Because by nature, humans are whole. Extreme outer projections or > >toughness, " niceness " , purity, etc. frequently mask the opposite > >internal condition. We've all heard of those righteous and pure > >ministers who are closet child molesters... > > > >If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are > >fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she > >can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and > >full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event > >is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the > >child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The > >incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state. > > > >Babies don't need drugs or drink to feel alive. They feel alive because > >they fully experience and express their emotions. While I am not > >suggesting that people wail like infants over food arriving late at a > >restaurant, I am suggesting that a full emotional life where feelings > >are honored and expressed constructively is the goal to work toward. > > > >But AA does not set out to awaken people's emotional worlds. Far from > >it! " Serenity " is set forth as the emotional goal... serenity being an > >emotional state <B>devoid</B> of notable highs or lows! Members are > >taught to avoid strong emotions! If they do experience strong emotions > >they may be shamed for having an emotional relapse, or labeled dry > >drunks. Emotional flatness, by standards of modern psychology, is > >unhealthy. A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what > >emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich > >and worthwhile. > > > >Because members try to maintain the precarious state of Serenity, but > >at the same time, are often hiding deep emotional pain, they are > >frequently living life as emotional time bombs. This is why expression > >of deep emotions is often discouraged in meetings. Members are to > > " work the program " on their strong feelings, so they don't feel them > >with intensity, and most importantly, so they don't express them. . > >The fear is that one person's " time-bomb " (the expression of strong > >emotion)... will detonate the entire mine field. > > > >Instead of building up the strength to finally open the Pandora's box > >of repressed emotions which has been neglected by years of drinking, > >then fully experiencing and attaching the proper feelings to past life > >events, many people fail to address these issues at all. Why? For > >several reasons. Firstly, AA suggests that people " let go " of the past > >in a wave-of-the-hand type of gesture -- to get off the pity pot and > >focus on the " important " things, like spreading the 12 step virus to > >others. Also, for many it seems too terrifying to go inside and face > >the truth of the past! Thus by failing to go back and grieve their own > >pains and losses, they never develop the emotional sensitivity which > >is needed to make life pleasurable and which will allow them to be able > >to empathize with the pain of others. This is why so many sponsors are > >insensitive louts. Instead of dealing with the scary past, members > >learn to exist in the spiritual fishbowl of AA, riding on the intense > >social high meanwhile mistakenly attributing their deadened spirit to > >the " disease " of alcoholism. The intense social high and the rituals > >of AA keeps the flame from the fuse. Emotions stay hidden and under > >wraps behind a facade of gratitude for the program and the emotional > >pretense of serenity. > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer > >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer > >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! > >http://clickhere./click/1142 > > > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! > >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/1702 > > > > eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/ > - Simplifying group communications > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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