Re: Adrenals, Thyroid and Sleep

[Guest guest]

>Maybe I should take more Armour in the morning

> too and less at night? Is it important to take the Isocort each

time when taking the Armour to support the adrenals?

>

> Not sure what to try next, any suggestions welcome:-))

Bev, I had read that the adrenals put out most of their stuff in the

morning anyway. Thus, I take all six of my Isocort in the morning

with breakfast.

Additionally, I see it as positive when we can take some of the

Armour at night, though I lean towards doing a very small amount.

Right now, I am doing 2 1/2 grains by 2 pm, then adding 1/4 grain at

11 pm.

Janie

[Guest guest]

Bev, tell us your rationale on taking both Cortef and Isocort!

Sounds potentially interesting.

Janie

[Guest guest]

Hi Bev... I " m feeling a ton better today.

This is really long... the first part is about this hyper stage I'm

in..... if you want to by pass that and just go to where I ramble about

adrenal and what I've been noticing about it... just scoot down until you

see a line of stars - like this: ********

I didn't intend for this to get this long... but... darned it... I'm

observing things and I'm thinking if I share what I observe we might be

able to figure out how some of this stuff works.... we're all different,

gosh... how we've found that out.... but I'm having some obvious

reactions and observations to the hyper state that I'm going through now

and how it's started affecting my adrenals and body rhythm.... some of

this may click in someone's head... We might be able to spot some type

of a pattern or link that could be applicable to others in some way....

If not.... Well... at least we've tried... and that is why we're all

here... to learn more about all this messed up thyroid stuff and how to

feel alive again.

I'm up to 1 1/2 grain of Thyroid per day..... I'm holding at that... I

still have excess to purge but the three doses that I took today, noon, 3

pm and 6 pm... did not cause the shakes. It's a bit past my bed time,

10:16... but I'm not exercising for a few more days just to keep from

stressing my heart... just doing simple, mild and slow stretches to keep

everything limber and to prevent tendons and such from getting tight. I'm

a bit tired... but last night I barely got three hours of sleep. So I'm

waiting until 11 before I lay down tonight... am hoping that I'll be

sleepy enough and slowed down enough to sleep through the night.

My appetite is still strong. I'm eating a bit more than normal per meal,

7 meals a day... I'd guess about double my normal calories. I've decided

not to monitor food. So my graphs will be blank for a few days. I fear

that if I look at numbers it will throw off the way I FEEL and may cause

me to binge if I get over hungry. This eating plan that I've been

following the last couple of months has dropped some weight.. I don't

want to mess up the positives I've done by getting my body out of whack.

I'm eating by the feel/need to feed.... with an eye on keeping the meals

realistic and every 2 to 3 hours.

I went out today so it was the first day I've worn my jeans in a week...

Just bumming around the house by myself I've been wearing pj bottoms and

a T-shirt.. anyway... the jeans were looser today than they were when I

wore them Monday last week... so even though I'm gorging to feed the

hyper beast... I'm not gaining... and the loss is not so much to make me

nervous (weight loss is good, but rapid loss for something like hyper is

NOT good. It's a great stress on the heart and body organs - the reason

why things like lyposuction can only take so much at a time without risk

to health).

What I'm having now is not a storm.... I did storm in '89-'90, that was

much more severe than this...

For now.... my first 'watch it' signs was being more " up " .. then feeling

nervous, then rapid heart beat after just walking down the hall. This was

over about a week. It then moved toward higher body heat output.. not a

feeling of warm.. not even sweating... but pumping heat. The first signs

of that were coming out of the small bedroom in the morning and noticing

that the rest of the house felt colder than the bedroom - thermostat set

at 63 to 65 over night, about 68 during the day. Still feeling warm...

then being in the office during the day and seeing the windows in here

frosting over while the rest of the windows in the house were not

frosting..... I was losing moisture with the excess heat causing an

increase in humidity in this room..... Mind you... I'm in here for HOURS

at a time... it's not just sitting for fifteen minutes and the windows

are steamy....

Getting up in the morning and the mattress feeling hot to the

touch...like when you touch someone with a fever... yet I'm not running a

fever.... I'm just pumping heat from the muscles twitching. They twitch

as a reaction to the excess thyroid hormone it the tissues... Again, not

as extreme as 14 years ago.. but I can watch my quads move while sitting

perfectly still. Last night, in bed, it was my right shoulder that

decided it was going to dance... lasted for about an hour... just enough

of a twitch to barely move the arm... but after an hour of that.... my

shoulder is stiff and sore today...

Today the only noticeable twitches that I had were on the right side of

my neck... from the collar bone to just under my ear.... My fingers

aren't twitching at all.

********

Okay.. Adrenals... Keeping in mind that the normal body cycle is for the

adrenals to do a dump when we rise and maintain a level during the first

part of the day... then ease off production so that by nighttime there is

little output and melatonin is released into the system. If the adrenals

are fatigued they get the call in the morning to do the morning dump but

try as they might, they can't produce... the order has been given to

produce and they continue to struggle until there is enough to release.

When they reach that amount, they dump... if it's late in the day...

early evening, bedtime, in the wee hours.... it causes the body to 'wake

up' you are alert, antsy, wide awake, can't relax, can't sleep... because

of the adrenaline in your system......

Stay with me... this is a snow ball thing that builds over time.... for

some, it's years in the making.....

Now... you are short on sleep and have to get up the next day, work,

school, life, calls..... The body sends a signal to the adrenals to

produce, to get you going... you have caffeine or a sugary breakfast to

'get you going' increasing the call to the adrenals to produce... But

they're still tired from yesterday.. but you need the adrenaline so they

work their little hearts out to produce the adrenaline to get into the

blood stream but they are just so tired from working so hard the day

before, and not enough sleep to rest and heal and now they have to

produce even more because you are so tired and still need to get on with

your life.... FINALLY they produce enough to release.... bam.. in your

blood stream, late in the day... Your body is tired from not enough

sleep... it's late in the day and time to be settling down to sleep...

but all of a sudden you've got this dump of adrenaline in your system and

there you go.... to wide awake and antsy to sleep.. but soooo tired....

Now it's morning again.. You have to get up... you have things you have

to do... more caffeine... LOUDER call for adrenaline to get you going....

pooor, weak, tired little adrenals get right to work and just work

themselves silly to produce that adrenaline you need..... but by the time

they have enough to release... it's time to rest, not time to go buzzing

around the house....

Get the idea? So... to get this all straightened out..... Realize what

is happening in your body.. a basic rhythm is out of whack... and it can

take two years or more to get it back to where it should be... Set your

self up for the fact that this isn't going to work overnight, but if you

do it right... to let your adrenals rest and heal... you get to be a real

person again.

I read the stories about how adrenals work... did the 'yeah, sure, right'

thing... but figured it's worth a try.

I got the Bovine adrenal glandular. My thought was that if thyroid

glandular (like Armour) with all the extra little things in it does so

much for us.... I wanted adrenal glandular. Now... for the mistake I

made.... I quartered the tabs and took two quarters a day to start.

I felt WONDERFUL!

Within a week.. I was scooting around the house with all kinds of energy.

(I'd been on OTC Natural thyroid for about 5 months at that time - after

being with little or no meds for 3 years). By about the 4 week mark of

being on the adrenal... I CRASHED.

Major muscle group failure - falling down walking 15 feet to the

bathroom. Could peel two potatoes without my hands cramping into claws.

Stupid brain.. not brain fog... just stupid.. Couldn't think straight.

Didn't know what to do. Didn't know squat. Just scared silly... I sat

here on a Friday night and found The Immune support group, that is where

I met . I just told what was happening... what I was going through

and how scared I was.. it was the gang over there that was able to get me

to think straight and see what I'd done.... they saved my life.....

My body was very run down after being without thyroid for so long.... I

increased the thyroid slowly... and was doing well... but then, adding

the adrenal at too high a dose for what my body could handle... I over

worked my physical limitations. Hence the crash.... I had to stop the

adrenal for 2 months and then started again at just one quarter tab a

day....

I took that quarter tab in the morning. I took a thyroid, then breakfast,

then the adrenal.... then the other supps and thyroid during the day.....

after about 6 weeks or so, I added a second quarter of adrenal.... But I

did it just three hours after the first. WHY?

To follow the body's natural rhythm... Our bodies produce adrenaline in

the morning... tapering off as the day gets older...... it's not an even

production. My logic was to assist my adrenals by taking over their

regular daily chores. A quarter tab as soon as feasible in the morning,

then one three hours later.... after about six weeks... I added another

quarter tab..... One just after breakfast, one about 2 hours later, the

next about 2 hours after that.... So then I was doing all three of them

before noon..... spaced about three hours apart.... I kept doing this

until I was up to five quarter tabs a day... the last one taken about 3

pm.... (I wake about 6 or 7... go to bed at ten to exercise, go to sleep

about 11) Oh.... before the thyroid and adrenal... I was an insomniac...

often getting only 3 or 4 hours a night... for YEARS. Unable to fall

asleep at night... then finally falling into an exhausted sleep... then

waking in the week hours.. to awake to even try to go back to sleep.

This all worked wonderfully for many months.... a regular sleep schedule.

Waking without and alarm... a nice routine. Occasionally broken by life

events... noises in the house... staying up to late working.... waking

earlier to get a jump on the day... but not the insomnia that I'd

had.....

I was suddenly able to get angry... to laugh... to react to situations

again.. I was no longer a lump on the floor letting life walk over me....

My adrenals were finally rested up enough after months of this little

morning assist to be able to dump a load into my blood stream when I

needed it to react to life... just as it's supposed to be.... and because

they were no longer trying to answer the morning call and spending the

day to meet that demand... I was no longer getting that late day

dump...... Back to having a normal rhythm...

Okay.... I believe this with all of my heart... I've been living it....

but NOW I'm SURE... Why? because of the hyper state that I'm in... over

just about two weeks time... I'm back to being an insomniac..... Why? It

all makes perfect sense.... I have too much thyroid hormone built up in

my tissues from an increase that was too much for me. Because of the

hyper state my body is demanding more from my adrenals.... so... even

though I'm still taking my adrenal glandular.... My body needs more and

is hollering for more from the glands..... Well... guess what? Having

trouble going to sleep... waking during the night. Salt cravings.... (my

friend gave me grief today, I grabbed the salt shaker and started licking

salt off my hand.... and that ole familiar lower back pain.....

I'm trying to figure out how to guess the adjustment on my adrenal

glandular to match the hyper state that I " m in now.. to ease up on the

glands... so that I can get back to a normal sleep pattern.... Not

looking forward to this puzzle at all.

So, I guess.. In my usual long and wordy way... I'm trying to share what

I've noticed in me about this all..... if you help the adrenals early in

the day to reduce/eliminate the first morning call to the adrenals so

that they don't spend all day forcing to produce enough to release.....

they will not only have time to rest and heal..... they won't be dumping

adrenaline on your system late in the day.. when it messes up your body

rhythm/cycle. AND they will be able to take their time and leisurely

build up reserves so that when you do need extra.. they have some stashed

away to give when you need it.

Personally... as I read of those that have too big a rush from 'late in

the day' thyroid doses.... I wonder if it might not be possible that the

adrenals are showing signs of fatigue... but not yet to the extreme to be

noticeable.... it's only visible when the body is acknowledging that late

dose of thyroid.....

I dosed thyroid five times a day... first dose as soon as I wake in the

morning.... the last dose as I crawl into bed at night.... I was doing

great on that... and only messed up by forcing my body to accept a 6 th

dose.... going from 2 1/2 grain per day to 3....

Right now.... I'm not doing thyroid in the morning... I don't take a dose

of it until noon..... I am still taking my adrenal though, and all my

other supps right on schedule.... to allow my body to work 'normally' on

all the other levels... just allowing it to use up the excess thyroid

that I forced on it....

It's now about a quarter after 11... Yep... slow at writing this... and

watching a movie at the same time and doing some stretching as I think

about how to phrase what I'm trying to explain.... I'm feeling normally

tired.... Not exhausted... not 'it's time for bed, make yourself

tired'... I'm just simply 'I could lay down now' tired...

I'll know by how I sleep over the next couple of nights how my theory

holds water.... If my thinking is right.... thyroid dose in the middle of

the day as my body purges the excess... with normal adrenal and others

supports.... should allow me to go back to a normal rhythm again.

Topper ()

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:19:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) " *~ OM ~* "

writes:

> Hi and EveryOne,

>

> , Hope you are feeling better now. How long did it take to

> reach

> Thyroid storm after you first felt the beginning of hyper? What were

> the

> first hyper signs?

>

> About Adrenals- I can't figure out how to give my adrenals support

> in the

> late afternoon and evening when I take Armour without having the

> cortisol

> keep me awake at night. Right now I am taking 3 grains of Armour at

> 1gr.

> 10am, 1gr. 2pm 1/2gr/ at 7pm and1/2 gr. midnight. Isocort 2 am and 2

> around

> 3pm.

>

> I tried Cortef at 2pm yesterday and it kept me awake last night.

> Today I

> tried Cortef in the am but I think it made me nauseous. If I take

> Isocort

> past 3pm it keeps me awake too. Anything keeps me awake at night....

> I am a

> real night owl but it also takes me half the day to feel really

> awake.

> Adrenal symptom.

>

> Been thinking about taking Isocort 3 tabs or even four in the am to

> wake up

> and then 2 in the afternoon. Maybe I should take more Armour in the

> morning

> too and less at night? Is it important to take the Isocort each time

> when

> taking the Armour to support the adrenals?

>

> Not sure what to try next, any suggestions welcome:-))

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Topper,

have you had this muscle twitching only when increasing your dose of thyroid or

did you have it when untreated and/or undertreated?

I have had this for the past 5 years - ever since I became hypo. I was

untreated for 4 years. Even now, on armour, although I am not up to my optimum

dose yet, I still have this constant muscle firing. Mainly the legs and feet

are affected - last night I sat and watched as my big toe did a dance all on its

own! Also affected are shoulders, small of the back and even the rectum -

believe me you do not want to know what that feels like!!

I was really hoping that this would go away once I am on the right dose of

armour.

I am now on 2 and a quarter grains but my basal temp is still only 96 to 96.4

Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

HI , My muscle twitches/firings were in my thighs and my right eye. The

thigh was every once in a while...but lasted for a good long time. My eye

twitched constantly 24/7. It was miserable.

I was always taught by my doc that optimum dosage of Armour will show in your

body temp. Your basal temp at 98.0 shows optimum Armour intake. You have a

little ways to go.

I didn't reach optimum until I got to 360 mgs/6 grains a day. I now split them

in 4 doses through out the day. It has helped a lot. Do you take your meds

sublingually? Under the tongue/between gum and cheek?

Trust that your twitches will go away...mine went away right away...but every

once in a while I get them back to haunt me. Usually when I am having a down

moment. Hang in there you will lose them. Are you still having any hypo

symptoms at all other than the twitches? You may need to increase that dosage.

PattiSUe

Re: Adrenals, Thyroid and Sleep

Topper,

have you had this muscle twitching only when increasing your dose of thyroid

or did you have it when untreated and/or undertreated?

I have had this for the past 5 years - ever since I became hypo. I was

untreated for 4 years. Even now, on armour, although I am not up to my optimum

dose yet, I still have this constant muscle firing. Mainly the legs and feet

are affected - last night I sat and watched as my big toe did a dance all on its

own! Also affected are shoulders, small of the back and even the rectum -

believe me you do not want to know what that feels like!!

I was really hoping that this would go away once I am on the right dose of

armour.

I am now on 2 and a quarter grains but my basal temp is still only 96 to 96.4

Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " *~ OM ~* " <OM@b...>

Is it important to take the Isocort each time when

> taking the Armour to support the adrenals?

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

No - I don't think you need to take them at the same time each day at

all - just make sure that your adrenals are getting support every

day, and take your Armour when you have decided it works best for you

to take it.

[Guest guest]

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " *~ OM ~* " <OM@b...>

Is it important to take the Isocort each time when

> taking the Armour to support the adrenals?

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

No - I don't think you need to take them at the same time each day at

all - just make sure that your adrenals are getting support every

day, and take your Armour when you have decided it works best for you

to take it.

[Guest guest]

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " *~ OM ~* " <OM@b...>

Is it important to take the Isocort each time when

> taking the Armour to support the adrenals?

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

No - I don't think you need to take them at the same time each day at

all - just make sure that your adrenals are getting support every

day, and take your Armour when you have decided it works best for you

to take it.

[Guest guest]

Hi PattiSUe

yes, I take my armour sublingually split into 3 doses. My eye (left) also

twitches although not constantly, it will happen for a few days and then go away

again for maybe a few days or weeks before starting up again.

I am heaps better than I was before starting the armour but I am increasing my

dose gradually. I need to stay at this level for another 3 weeks before

increasing again.

I do still have other hypo symptoms, mainly very sore leg muscles and foot pain.

I am also taking cortef 5mg x 4 times a day and that is helping a lot.

The best thing that has happened so far is that I can now think clearly, no

brain fog.

Also the depression (which wasn't really depression but I was constantly crying)

has gone - that is the absolute best <g>

Lynda (in the UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: VITO LABELLARTE

Do you take your meds sublingually? Under the tongue/between gum and cheek?

Trust that your twitches will go away...mine went away right away...but every

once in a while I get them back to haunt me. Usually when I am having a down

moment. Hang in there you will lose them. Are you still having any hypo

symptoms at all other than the twitches? You may need to increase that dosage.

PattiSUe

[Guest guest]

I have constant firing when hyper.. but major muscle groups like legs,

feet shoulders and hands I've also had some trouble with even when

hypo... I have a theory.... sorry... I theorize everything if it seems to

have a reproducible pattern....

When I'm hypo and have a lot of exertion on muscle groups I have

firing/twitching that can start up after I stop and sometimes last a

couple minutes... to a couple hours....

For example... I peeled a bunch of apples for pies.... when I was all

done the thumb that I'd used to guide the knife as I peeled started it's

'dance'... you can hold it... make a fist, press the palm flat on the

desk... but as soon as it's relaxed again the twitching starts up....

With my feet... after a lot of walking the two biggest, most noticeable

things were the big toe dancing and a reflex jerk of the foot.. like when

they tap you by the Achilles tendon to check reaction....

So... some folks get that firing when hypo too.... some never have the

twitching.

When hypo I think it's a reaction to the adrenal push that we use to

force ourselves to be motivated even when we fell like crap and don't

want to move... since the motion is not one that we 'choose' to do, but

forced... the jerking/twitching afterwards, I think, is just the muscle

continuing to respond as it was doing just as a reaction/result of

fatigue.

I have no proof or research to back me up on that... just the experience

of being able to cause it to happen by doing a prolong procedure (peeling

a stack of apples, walking past the point of pain, making a fist,

relaxing, making a fist... until you feel too weak to do it anymore.....

all of those things, when I'm hypo, will cause a twitch after.... the

longer the activity the greater the likelihood that the twitching will

last for a longer period of time or come back several times.

When hyper, the twitching just happens...During my storm I actually woke

myself from muscle twitching.... and during the months between the first

doc telling me it was all in my head and the second doc sending me to the

hospital for RAI the same day she saw me.... my boyfriend complained that

I twitched so much in my sleep that I made the water bed move. He said

that he'd lay there and watch me sleep... He couldn't see me moving

anything... yet whatever was twitching was enough get the water bed

moving...... I never even felt it at that stage... to me it wasn't

noticeable until my quads and biceps would start dancing all by

themselves. I couldn't make them stop.....

Facial twitches were embarrassing.... folks tend to stare at you when

that happens.... hehehheheh

When it hits my lower back.. when hypo... it could drop me to the

floor... Ever had it start on your abs? It's like you did a gazillion sit

ups.... and you can't make it stop.... and when it's over.. you feel like

you did those gazillion situps and it hurts like a.... you know what....

.... does it make more sense now when I get so vocal about not being

willing to go off meds again if I lose the sources that I have? I go

through these cycles every time I increase or decrease doses.... when

running out of meds and going down to zero... that means major pain.. and

that pretty much tapers off at mild H**L until I can get some meds

again... then the pain series starts up again as I increase dose..... NOT

fun!

What made a big difference for me is multi-dosing.... to keep levels as

even as possible... taking a dose just once or twice a day... just

doesnt' work for me.... Three or four is better..... 5 (2 1/2 grain) was

my sweet spot... so far.... but adding that sixth dose, bringing it to 3

grain, was too much for me.... now, anyway....

My basals were good at 2 1/2 grain.... 98 and a bit upon waking.... pulse

was holding pretty good around 70.. respiration a happy 20... before I

started on thyroid again in July '02.. pulse was 50 and respiration was

10... I didn't have a mercury thermometer then so I don't know what my

temp was.

I may try to go to 3 grain again in a few months.... after my body has

had a chance to recover from this guffaw..... but if I start showing

symptoms I'm dropping back down right away!!!!

Topper ()

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:03:24 -0000 " Lynda "

writes:

> Topper,

> have you had this muscle twitching only when increasing your dose of

> thyroid or did you have it when untreated and/or undertreated?

> I have had this for the past 5 years - ever since I became hypo. I

> was untreated for 4 years. Even now, on armour, although I am not

> up to my optimum dose yet, I still have this constant muscle firing.

> Mainly the legs and feet are affected - last night I sat and

> watched as my big toe did a dance all on its own! Also affected

> are shoulders, small of the back and even the rectum - believe me

> you do not want to know what that feels like!!

> I was really hoping that this would go away once I am on the right

> dose of armour.

> I am now on 2 and a quarter grains but my basal temp is still only

> 96 to 96.4

> Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

> HI Bev, so when I start my Isocort...I will also need to take my

selenium and zinc also? Am I understanding correctly? How about L-

Tyrosine? I have been reading up on the too and it seems pretty

important. I am holding back on the DHEA until I see results from

the Isocort and I am totally confused by the 7-keto DHEA. Are you

versed in this?

> Any help is appreciated. Hugs...PattiSue

I personally take all of the mentioned supplements, and have for some

time now - 1000 tyrosine with morning Armour....the zinc and selenium

before dinner....and CoQ10 - my favorite - for 12 years now..I feel

that is SO important.

[Guest guest]

> Just wanted to say that I tried l-tyrosine last year. After only

a week my blood pressure was so high that I burst a blood vessel in

my eye. Have not taken it since then. Everyone is different I

know, this just did not suit me.

> Lynda (in the UK)

There are certainly some who cannot take tyrosine - and then, of

course, you shouldn't!! I've heard of someone esle who said she feel

her heart goes crazy on it...since it is an amino acid, it's also

important to take it on an empty stomach.

[Guest guest]

> so when I start my Isocort...I will also need to take my selenium

>and zinc also? Am I understanding correctly? How about L-

>Tyrosine?

Selenium and L-Tyrosine are important to take even if someone is not

on adrenal support. The two help with T4 to T3 conversion.

Janie

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: topper2@...

Facial twitches were embarrassing.... folks tend to stare at you when

that happens.... hehehheheh

ooh, I know that feeling. Sometimes my top lip does an Elvis type sneer when

I am talking and I have no control over it - goodness knows what people think

when I do that, hehehe

I have the constant twitches without any exertion, when I do something like

you described peeling veggies, my hand contorts and it takes awhile to release

it.

Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

When my hand does that it's like an eagle claw or something.... it's

rapid, intense and locks... and HURTTTTTSSSS you just try not to scream

through it until it releases..... after I got my thyroid level up over

the 1 1/2 mark and was taking the Adrenal glandular and the DHEA... I not

had a single claw hand... not even the day I peeled an diced 12 apples

for apple bars about 6 weeks ago.... and no problems when I'm kneading

dough or making pasta either. Not even when I'm working with a pastry

tube... all things that I, for all practical purposes, couldn't do last

year.

My face is mostly a lower lid twitch on my right eye... like an upside

down wink or something... I've not had that in 8 months or so....

Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts and

just lock? Can't swallow can't talk.. just grunt... those are horrid.. I

had those for years before my hyper storm... not had it once since the

RAI... Gosh.. I remember people looking at me as if I were throwing a

seizure or something.

Topper ()

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:45:41 -0000 " Lynda "

writes:

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: topper2@...

> Facial twitches were embarrassing.... folks tend to stare at you

> when

> that happens.... hehehheheh

>

> ooh, I know that feeling. Sometimes my top lip does an Elvis

> type sneer when I am talking and I have no control over it -

> goodness knows what people think when I do that, hehehe

> I have the constant twitches without any exertion, when I do

> something like you described peeling veggies, my hand contorts and

> it takes awhile to release it.

> Lynda (in the UK)

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: topper2@...

Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts and just

lock?

Goodness, you are stirring memories now! No, never had the tongue cramp but

I have had the stomach (diaphragm) cramp - could not breathe until it released.

Also, a couple of times when I have yawned, the muscle under my chin has locked

and I literally pushed my mouth closed again <g>

Lynda

[Guest guest]

So that is what I am experiencing with my stomach and diaphragm. Thought I had

cancer or something..honestly!!

It hurts.

Patti

Re: Adrenals, Thyroid and Sleep

----- Original Message -----

From: topper2@...

Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts and just

lock?

Goodness, you are stirring memories now! No, never had the tongue cramp

but I have had the stomach (diaphragm) cramp - could not breathe until it

released. Also, a couple of times when I have yawned, the muscle under my chin

has locked and I literally pushed my mouth closed again <g>

Lynda

[Guest guest]

> Why an empty stomach?

amino acids are better absorbed on an empty stomach...not sure why.

[Guest guest]

I can imagine you are fascinating to watch, Topper! LOL

> When my hand does that it's like an eagle claw or something.... it's

> rapid, intense and locks... and HURTTTTTSSSS you just try not to

scream

> through it until it releases..... after I got my thyroid level up

over

> the 1 1/2 mark and was taking the Adrenal glandular and the DHEA...

I not

> had a single claw hand... not even the day I peeled an diced 12

apples

> for apple bars about 6 weeks ago.... and no problems when I'm

kneading

> dough or making pasta either. Not even when I'm working with a

pastry

> tube... all things that I, for all practical purposes, couldn't do

last

> year.

>

> My face is mostly a lower lid twitch on my right eye... like an

upside

> down wink or something... I've not had that in 8 months or so....

>

> Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts

and

> just lock? Can't swallow can't talk.. just grunt... those are

horrid.. I

> had those for years before my hyper storm... not had it once since

the

> RAI... Gosh.. I remember people looking at me as if I were throwing

a

> seizure or something.

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

I never had a diaphragm cramp... but I've had abs lock up so long and

hard that I've had bruised ribs..... the 'lock jaw'... yep.... I still

have trouble with open mouth yawns because of that.... I do this weird

sideways thing with my mouth... I just can't open it to yawn after that

lock/cramp happening so many times... so may years...

What a relief to hear someone else had those episodes too!

How about a bladder cramp? For those that have no idea what I mean....

Maybe I'm not even using the correct term..... you know how your bladder

feels when it's really really full and you are desperate to maintain

control until you can get to a bathroom.... and then you've been waiting

to long and have the achy feeling inside. Then when you are finally able

to void your bladder there can sometimes be discomfort with the release

of the pressure.... now imagine that pain... Lingering... for days.... No

bladder infection, no fever, no cramps, normal urine output for volume,

color and (sorry, but this pertains) aroma. Just the strain, cramp, ache

of the muscles involved with bladder control.

Gosh... almost makes me want to make a list of all the cramps, locks,

spasms and cramps that I've had with hyper and hypo..... that's why it

was so frightening for me to get back into exercise and lifting. I'm

still lifting only light weights... for fear of triggering the cramps and

spasms and such again from over use.....

Topper ()

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:09:58 -0000 " Lynda "

writes:

> Goodness, you are stirring memories now! No, never had the

> tongue cramp but I have had the stomach (diaphragm) cramp - could

> not breathe until it released. Also, a couple of times when I have

> yawned, the muscle under my chin has locked and I literally pushed

> my mouth closed again <g>

> Lynda

[Guest guest]

Every time

someone makes a comment like the one that you just did Patti... I'm so

glad that I mentioned what ever it was that I thought was so off the wall

and of so little interest to others, or flat outembarrassingg.... You've

found a probable answer to one of your questions..... that's pretty cool.

Topper ()

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:28:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> So that is what I am experiencing with my stomach and diaphragm.

> Thought I had cancer or something..honestly!!

> It hurts.

> Patti

[Guest guest]

Every time

someone makes a comment like the one that you just did Patti... I'm so

glad that I mentioned what ever it was that I thought was so off the wall

and of so little interest to others, or flat outembarrassingg.... You've

found a probable answer to one of your questions..... that's pretty cool.

Topper ()

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:28:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> So that is what I am experiencing with my stomach and diaphragm.

> Thought I had cancer or something..honestly!!

> It hurts.

> Patti

[Guest guest]

This is what I thought also Patti when I'd wake up with severe rib pain.It's

very scary,then I joined this group and have learned an abundance of thing's I

never would have known otherwise,for darn sure a Dr won't tell you. Like a

lightbulb being turned on FULL time!

Shirley

Re: Adrenals, Thyroid and Sleep

----- Original Message -----

From: topper2@...

Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts and

just lock?

Goodness, you are stirring memories now! No, never had the tongue cramp

but I have had the stomach (diaphragm) cramp - could not breathe until it

released. Also, a couple of times when I have yawned, the muscle under my chin

has locked and I literally pushed my mouth closed again <g>

Lynda

[Guest guest]

This is what I thought also Patti when I'd wake up with severe rib pain.It's

very scary,then I joined this group and have learned an abundance of thing's I

never would have known otherwise,for darn sure a Dr won't tell you. Like a

lightbulb being turned on FULL time!

Shirley

Re: Adrenals, Thyroid and Sleep

----- Original Message -----

From: topper2@...

Hey... even had your tongue cramp? Swell up as the muscle contracts and

just lock?

Goodness, you are stirring memories now! No, never had the tongue cramp

but I have had the stomach (diaphragm) cramp - could not breathe until it

released. Also, a couple of times when I have yawned, the muscle under my chin

has locked and I literally pushed my mouth closed again <g>

Lynda