Guest guest Posted November 18, 1999 Report Share Posted November 18, 1999 > Could you let me know how to be in discussions with you, Im in New Zealand. > Regards > Ann Hi Ann, For starters, as an American who has traveled extensively in New Zealand, let me apologize for my country's littering your fair land with the AA program. I'm sure your flavor of AA is a good deal more palatable than the fundamentalist, new age stuff we have to swallow here in Southern California, but then again rubbish is rubbish. At any rate, I love your country and the hospitality I experienced there. So much so that in the month I spent there I managed to avoid setting foot in one AA meeting. As far as being a part of the discussion, it looks as if you are already. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 1999 Report Share Posted November 18, 1999 At 09:53 19/11/99 +1300, you wrote: >just came across the 12 step page. Interresting to note, it seems as though >people are wary about theprogramme is this correct. Ive been trying not >todrink for nine months now and succesfully too, but Im finding the 12 >step is getting rammed through my head and its makin me feel quite down at >times. I dont agree on all the 12 step crap in fact I feel as though Id >be best of without the meetings, and wish there was an alternitive >programme for recovery, without this convential way. I agree however, >that it does help millions of people or so they say. >Could you let me know how to be in discussions with you, Im in New Zealand. >Regards >Ann Hi Ann- some people are VERY wary of the 12 step program- as you can see not everybody agrees that it only helps. Some would say by persuading them they have an incurable disease (that medical science has not actually found) rather than a problem behaviour and telling them that they are powerless to stop drinking and without God they will drink and die (or whatever) that AA has done considerable harm. Vulnerable people may well believe this stuff and be undermined and become fatalistic and stop trying to help themselves. Or people can become part of AA and get sucked in to what works more like a religious cult than anything else and not do what they actually need to do, but just perform pointless religious rituals ( " Steps " ) instead, which can undermine their mental health. The principles of the program do not support mental health and are not validated by psychology- if anything they can be held responsible for causing avoidable depression and undermining peoples' motivation for self-help, which is what someone trying to stop an addiction needs. There are alternative methods of recovery- SMART Recovery for example has meetings- although I think only one so far in Australia (although of course you could start one yourself); it is a modern (non-religious, non-meetings-for-life program) and then there is Rational Recovery which doesn't even have meetings at all, says they aren't necessary and says you can do it out of a book or straight off their web site- and there is SOS which is a bit like a non-religious AA, and it also has meetings. I'll paste in the web urls for these things here so you can have a look for yourself. http://www.smartrecovery.org/ http://rational.org/recovery/ http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/ and more- http://www.bcrecovernet.org/ And you might also be interested in- Psychology of Mind (not a recovery program per se at all but it has a philosophy of recovery and a book that is very empowering about addiction and recovery called The Serenity Principle- this was what helped me get out of the 12 step mind set- I recommend that book!). POM is fairly well established In Australia. http:///pomhr.com/ JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 1999 Report Share Posted November 18, 1999 At 01:22 19/11/99 +0000, I wrote: >...Australia Hi Ann- sorry about that- I'm tired and I seem to have thought you said Autralia! Oh well- just to let you know, now that I think about it, I do realise it is a long way away from you... JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 1999 Report Share Posted November 18, 1999 Hi Anne: Welcome to 12 step free. You are in discussion with us. There is a chat feature on e-groups, but hardly anyone uses it. Just read the list, respond as you see fit. There are different ways to access the list. Some like it e-mailed in individual mails, some prefer a daily digest sent via e-mail and others like me, like to read it on the web. /group/12-step-free Just go to the site & choose your favorite settings. There are also pictures of many of us in the vault. Apple " anne pointon " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9522 > just came across the 12 step page. Interresting to note, it seems as though > people are wary about theprogramme is this correct. Ive been trying not > todrink for nine months now and succesfully too, but Im finding the 12 > step is getting rammed through my head and its makin me feel quite down at > times. I dont agree on all the 12 step crap in fact I feel as though Id > be best of without the meetings, and wish there was an alternitive > programme for recovery, without this convential way. I agree however, > that it does help millions of people or so they say. > Could you let me know how to be in discussions with you, Im in New Zealand. > Regards > Ann > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 1999 Report Share Posted November 20, 1999 In a message dated 11/18/99 6:25:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, annie@... writes: << annie@... >> Ann, there are a number of alternatives. In NZ, there may still be temperance organizations like the International Organization of Good Templars (IOGT). There are also " dry " churches, and the health-food scene will accept the idea that you don't want to drink. Dito for yoga, etc. Actually, most people in this country drink way less than an ex-drunk can imagine (I think NZ is the same). One drink a week may be about average. I don't think the medical model approaches, where you have to take on the " sick " role, are for everyone or even most everyone, but there's a number of orgs trying to compete with AA on that front. Actually, they don't think in terms of anything but the medical " treatment " model because, well, because that's all they can think of, I guess. Rational Recovery (RR) has some ideas about a " beast " and an " addictive voice. " I think there are dangers in that model, but they are aggressive critics of AA. Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) is like AA without God. It may be active in NZ. You'll be most comfortable there if you're an atheist or something. Women for Sobriety (WFS) has an interesting program of affirmations. The founder is sort of a man-hater, though, I think, and I believe most WFSer's also go to AA. S.M.A.R.T. Recovery is another " treatment " thing based on " Rational Emotive Therapy " It's good for a " treatment, " but doesn't seem to offer much, if any, lifestyle support. In this country, we have a front-running presidential candidate who completely quit drinking ten years ago. People are accepting that. He didn't take on the " sick " role and that's that. There are other public figures like that if you look for them. Keep focused on the future. Once you get the alcohol and/or drugs out, there isn't necessarily anything inside you that needs to be " treated " and that will make everything OK if it just gets " well. " You may coincidentally need therapy or medications, but don't let anyone ASSUME that you do because you had a drinking or drug problem. Booze and drugs will screw up anybody. You need to find a sober lifestyle, which is not as hard as you think. Start planning NOW for what you want to be and do as a non-drinking, drug free person. Your past is darkness, your future is light. You don't have to shovel out the darkness, just turn on the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 1999 Report Share Posted November 20, 1999 In a message dated 11/18/99 6:25:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, annie@... writes: << annie@... >> Ann, there are a number of alternatives. In NZ, there may still be temperance organizations like the International Organization of Good Templars (IOGT). There are also " dry " churches, and the health-food scene will accept the idea that you don't want to drink. Dito for yoga, etc. Actually, most people in this country drink way less than an ex-drunk can imagine (I think NZ is the same). One drink a week may be about average. I don't think the medical model approaches, where you have to take on the " sick " role, are for everyone or even most everyone, but there's a number of orgs trying to compete with AA on that front. Actually, they don't think in terms of anything but the medical " treatment " model because, well, because that's all they can think of, I guess. Rational Recovery (RR) has some ideas about a " beast " and an " addictive voice. " I think there are dangers in that model, but they are aggressive critics of AA. Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) is like AA without God. It may be active in NZ. You'll be most comfortable there if you're an atheist or something. Women for Sobriety (WFS) has an interesting program of affirmations. The founder is sort of a man-hater, though, I think, and I believe most WFSer's also go to AA. S.M.A.R.T. Recovery is another " treatment " thing based on " Rational Emotive Therapy " It's good for a " treatment, " but doesn't seem to offer much, if any, lifestyle support. In this country, we have a front-running presidential candidate who completely quit drinking ten years ago. People are accepting that. He didn't take on the " sick " role and that's that. There are other public figures like that if you look for them. Keep focused on the future. Once you get the alcohol and/or drugs out, there isn't necessarily anything inside you that needs to be " treated " and that will make everything OK if it just gets " well. " You may coincidentally need therapy or medications, but don't let anyone ASSUME that you do because you had a drinking or drug problem. Booze and drugs will screw up anybody. You need to find a sober lifestyle, which is not as hard as you think. Start planning NOW for what you want to be and do as a non-drinking, drug free person. Your past is darkness, your future is light. You don't have to shovel out the darkness, just turn on the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 1999 Report Share Posted November 20, 1999 In a message dated 11/18/99 6:25:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, annie@... writes: << annie@... >> Ann, there are a number of alternatives. In NZ, there may still be temperance organizations like the International Organization of Good Templars (IOGT). There are also " dry " churches, and the health-food scene will accept the idea that you don't want to drink. Dito for yoga, etc. Actually, most people in this country drink way less than an ex-drunk can imagine (I think NZ is the same). One drink a week may be about average. I don't think the medical model approaches, where you have to take on the " sick " role, are for everyone or even most everyone, but there's a number of orgs trying to compete with AA on that front. Actually, they don't think in terms of anything but the medical " treatment " model because, well, because that's all they can think of, I guess. Rational Recovery (RR) has some ideas about a " beast " and an " addictive voice. " I think there are dangers in that model, but they are aggressive critics of AA. Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) is like AA without God. It may be active in NZ. You'll be most comfortable there if you're an atheist or something. Women for Sobriety (WFS) has an interesting program of affirmations. The founder is sort of a man-hater, though, I think, and I believe most WFSer's also go to AA. S.M.A.R.T. Recovery is another " treatment " thing based on " Rational Emotive Therapy " It's good for a " treatment, " but doesn't seem to offer much, if any, lifestyle support. In this country, we have a front-running presidential candidate who completely quit drinking ten years ago. People are accepting that. He didn't take on the " sick " role and that's that. There are other public figures like that if you look for them. Keep focused on the future. Once you get the alcohol and/or drugs out, there isn't necessarily anything inside you that needs to be " treated " and that will make everything OK if it just gets " well. " You may coincidentally need therapy or medications, but don't let anyone ASSUME that you do because you had a drinking or drug problem. Booze and drugs will screw up anybody. You need to find a sober lifestyle, which is not as hard as you think. Start planning NOW for what you want to be and do as a non-drinking, drug free person. Your past is darkness, your future is light. You don't have to shovel out the darkness, just turn on the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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