Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 In a message dated 11/9/99 3:19:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdprat@... writes: << I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt >> Matt: " your ok. Just keep trying to do good things for yourself " !!!!!!!!! You said it, kiddo!!! And you are from what I've read!!!!! Hang in there.Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 In a message dated 11/9/99 3:19:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdprat@... writes: << I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt >> Matt: " your ok. Just keep trying to do good things for yourself " !!!!!!!!! You said it, kiddo!!! And you are from what I've read!!!!! Hang in there.Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Hi everyone! I just wanted to thank everybody for there nice responses to my decision to stop antidepressants. I got different opinions on how to handle it, and a lot of good ideas. The thing I probably need to explain is that no medical professional has ever told me " go on antidepressants. " What has happened is my father and stepmom have told me my whole life that I need medication. At one time or another, they have diagnosed me as ADD, chemically dependent, or bipolar. Anyway I went in several months back and told an MD " I need antidepressants " because my father said he wouldn't help me out financially if I didn't do so. So, I've been volunteering to take these pills. Its not like I keep having mental breakdowns and are prescibed meds. I'm not saying I'm normal and don't suffer from depression. But I lot of this stuff I bring on myself. Three months ago, I'd just recieved a promotion at work, had my bills paid up, and this is after a year of no meds whatsoever. All the sudden I decided I needed meds because my Dad said so. I think all this makes sense in the context of the family I grew up in. I am very, very, very hard on myself, to the point its almost laughable. And my family helps me out a whole lot in hating myself. My father especially can never say, " your doing some things right. " Whenever I come to him with a problem, his response is always, " go on medication. " I take this to mean I do nothing right. And add on to that my brother who thinks that I'm a dry drunk who is " in denial " 24/7 and maybe my situation makes more sense. I haven't ruled out anything as far as medications. I am seeing a doctor as far as the withdrawal. But my predicament is now: if I tell my Dad I've stopped the pills, no more relationship with Dad. My Dad and my brother are from the same tree aren't they. Either I go to AA and take prozac or I don't see them. Conditional love. Its great aint it!!!! I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Where did your dad and stepmom get their medical degrees? I assume they're not qualified to say you have ADD, are chemically dependent or bipolar. I bet no doctor worth his salt would prescribe meds for you because your dad and stepmom thought you needed them without exploring the situation a whole lot further. I said some stuff about my mother in some of the last few posts in response to yours, and when I did go to a shrink and got anti-depressants I told him that my mother had told me since age 15 that I was sick and needed therapy. After I'd seen him about six times he told he thought my mother was sick and needed therapy. It sounds as though our families are not that different in some respects. But are you being honest with the doctor you are seeing? Have you said that you are being threatened if you do not take anti-depressants? Don't go to your father with problems. He is making them worse, not better. Never mind whether you are doing anything right. Is your dad? Is your brother? Don't listen to them, they are not capable of judging. You are 28 years old, Matt, if I remember correctly. Your dad doesn't have any right to know what medication you're on. If he were my dad, and he's as nasty as you say, I wouldn't have any compunction about lying to him. But I also have to ask, what would be so awful about not getting money from him? It can seem awful not to have your parents' support, but you are old enough to be supporting yourself. According to what you say, you are quite capable of doing it, until your family steps in and undermines you. It is hard to turn your back on family. If you do it, there is no guarantee that they will become motivated to change and win you back, as my mother apparently was. But when I turned my back on my mother, I did not expect her to change. I had no reason to expect her to, and I was willing to live with the consequences if she didn't. Do you need your father's financial help so badly that you are willing to become crazy to get it? If what you say is true, you could get more acceptance from someone at a bus stop or in a grocery line than you are getting from your family. Perhaps you feel that you have never done anything right, as your father says. That's what my mother said to me. And yet, I had always done what she wanted. Good grades -- I had a 4.0 in H.S., didn't do very well in college, yet went to an Ivy League school (which she wanted), got a 4.0 in graduate school, in the top 10% in law school. This wasn't good enough. I am well-dressed, a very important thing to my mother, can sew like a Paris couturiere, as she taught me to. I'm politically active. Very important to her. I share her values, the ones she brought me up with, and I share them after examination, not because I have to believe what my mom believes because she's my mom. There is nothing about me that my mother should not like. And yet she very clearly didn't like me until I stopped caring what she thought and stopped trying to please her. I can't imagine how awful it would have been if I had failed in any of those endeavors. I can't think of a single thing I failed in that was important to her. But she didn't care. Perhaps you haven't lived up to the standards that your father set. What I'm trying to say, however, is that it probably would not have mattered if you had. And you have to ask yourself, did he live up to those expectations? Chances are he didn't. How can he ask it of you? " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9259 <snip> > The thing I probably need to explain is that no medical > professional has ever told me " go on antidepressants. " What has happened is > my father and stepmom have told me my whole life that I need medication. At > one time or another, they have diagnosed me as ADD, chemically dependent, or > bipolar. > Anyway I went in several months back and told an MD " I need > antidepressants " because my father said he wouldn't help me out financially > if I didn't do so. So, I've been volunteering to take these pills. Its not > like I keep having mental breakdowns and are prescibed meds. > I'm not saying I'm normal and don't suffer from depression. But I > lot of this stuff I bring on myself. Three months ago, I'd just recieved a > promotion at work, had my bills paid up, and this is after a year of no > meds whatsoever. All the sudden I decided I needed meds because my Dad said > so. > I think all this makes sense in the context of the family I grew up > in. I am very, very, very hard on myself, to the point its almost > laughable. And my family helps me out a whole lot in hating myself. My > father especially can never say, " your doing some things right. " Whenever > I come to him with a problem, his response is always, " go on medication. " > I take this to mean I do nothing right. And add on to that my > brother who thinks that I'm a dry drunk who is " in denial " 24/7 and maybe my > situation makes more sense. > I haven't ruled out anything as far as medications. I am seeing a > doctor as far as the withdrawal. But my predicament is now: if I tell my > Dad I've stopped the pills, no more relationship with Dad. My Dad and my > brother are from the same tree aren't they. Either I go to AA and take > prozac or I don't see them. Conditional love. Its great aint it!!!! > I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do > good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " > Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Where did your dad and stepmom get their medical degrees? I assume they're not qualified to say you have ADD, are chemically dependent or bipolar. I bet no doctor worth his salt would prescribe meds for you because your dad and stepmom thought you needed them without exploring the situation a whole lot further. I said some stuff about my mother in some of the last few posts in response to yours, and when I did go to a shrink and got anti-depressants I told him that my mother had told me since age 15 that I was sick and needed therapy. After I'd seen him about six times he told he thought my mother was sick and needed therapy. It sounds as though our families are not that different in some respects. But are you being honest with the doctor you are seeing? Have you said that you are being threatened if you do not take anti-depressants? Don't go to your father with problems. He is making them worse, not better. Never mind whether you are doing anything right. Is your dad? Is your brother? Don't listen to them, they are not capable of judging. You are 28 years old, Matt, if I remember correctly. Your dad doesn't have any right to know what medication you're on. If he were my dad, and he's as nasty as you say, I wouldn't have any compunction about lying to him. But I also have to ask, what would be so awful about not getting money from him? It can seem awful not to have your parents' support, but you are old enough to be supporting yourself. According to what you say, you are quite capable of doing it, until your family steps in and undermines you. It is hard to turn your back on family. If you do it, there is no guarantee that they will become motivated to change and win you back, as my mother apparently was. But when I turned my back on my mother, I did not expect her to change. I had no reason to expect her to, and I was willing to live with the consequences if she didn't. Do you need your father's financial help so badly that you are willing to become crazy to get it? If what you say is true, you could get more acceptance from someone at a bus stop or in a grocery line than you are getting from your family. Perhaps you feel that you have never done anything right, as your father says. That's what my mother said to me. And yet, I had always done what she wanted. Good grades -- I had a 4.0 in H.S., didn't do very well in college, yet went to an Ivy League school (which she wanted), got a 4.0 in graduate school, in the top 10% in law school. This wasn't good enough. I am well-dressed, a very important thing to my mother, can sew like a Paris couturiere, as she taught me to. I'm politically active. Very important to her. I share her values, the ones she brought me up with, and I share them after examination, not because I have to believe what my mom believes because she's my mom. There is nothing about me that my mother should not like. And yet she very clearly didn't like me until I stopped caring what she thought and stopped trying to please her. I can't imagine how awful it would have been if I had failed in any of those endeavors. I can't think of a single thing I failed in that was important to her. But she didn't care. Perhaps you haven't lived up to the standards that your father set. What I'm trying to say, however, is that it probably would not have mattered if you had. And you have to ask yourself, did he live up to those expectations? Chances are he didn't. How can he ask it of you? " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9259 <snip> > The thing I probably need to explain is that no medical > professional has ever told me " go on antidepressants. " What has happened is > my father and stepmom have told me my whole life that I need medication. At > one time or another, they have diagnosed me as ADD, chemically dependent, or > bipolar. > Anyway I went in several months back and told an MD " I need > antidepressants " because my father said he wouldn't help me out financially > if I didn't do so. So, I've been volunteering to take these pills. Its not > like I keep having mental breakdowns and are prescibed meds. > I'm not saying I'm normal and don't suffer from depression. But I > lot of this stuff I bring on myself. Three months ago, I'd just recieved a > promotion at work, had my bills paid up, and this is after a year of no > meds whatsoever. All the sudden I decided I needed meds because my Dad said > so. > I think all this makes sense in the context of the family I grew up > in. I am very, very, very hard on myself, to the point its almost > laughable. And my family helps me out a whole lot in hating myself. My > father especially can never say, " your doing some things right. " Whenever > I come to him with a problem, his response is always, " go on medication. " > I take this to mean I do nothing right. And add on to that my > brother who thinks that I'm a dry drunk who is " in denial " 24/7 and maybe my > situation makes more sense. > I haven't ruled out anything as far as medications. I am seeing a > doctor as far as the withdrawal. But my predicament is now: if I tell my > Dad I've stopped the pills, no more relationship with Dad. My Dad and my > brother are from the same tree aren't they. Either I go to AA and take > prozac or I don't see them. Conditional love. Its great aint it!!!! > I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do > good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " > Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 Hi Matt: Ever hear the expression " self-talk " . It's the messages we send to ourselves in our head, which determine the course of our actions. My self talk used to be " I'm fat " , " no one will ever love me " , " I suck " . Come to think of it, I know where these messages came from. Since I was little, women are innundated with such messages so we can buy lipsticks we don't need and silicone boobs. The way I got rid of the self talk is by deciding that the media can go f*ck itself. Your self talk seems to come from your family. If you're living with them, it will be hard to change your internal self talk to more positive messages, but you can probably be pretty safe in betting that the messages you're getting from dad & bro are reflections of their own toxic self-talk. How sad for them. YOu don't have to buy it! When I found out there was nothing wrong with me, guess what " poof " there was nothing wrong with me. But the world sure started looking really screwed up. It's much easier to deal with life from this perspective. Of course this is 180 degrees the opposite of what step groups teach. They say the world is fine (NOT) and the alkie just needs an attitude adjustment. Yeah, let's go to vietnam to blow open the heads of some locals and cope with it with an attitude adjustment. Nice. YOu want to read more about self-talk, check out this site, which I really dig, except for the 12 steps page (ick). www.allaboutcounseling ..com It covers issues typically dealt with in therapy. Good stuff. Apple " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9259 > Hi everyone! I just wanted to thank everybody for there nice responses to > my decision to stop antidepressants. I got different opinions on how to > handle it, and a lot of good ideas. > The thing I probably need to explain is that no medical > professional has ever told me " go on antidepressants. " What has happened is > my father and stepmom have told me my whole life that I need medication. At > one time or another, they have diagnosed me as ADD, chemically dependent, or > bipolar. > Anyway I went in several months back and told an MD " I need > antidepressants " because my father said he wouldn't help me out financially > if I didn't do so. So, I've been volunteering to take these pills. Its not > like I keep having mental breakdowns and are prescibed meds. > I'm not saying I'm normal and don't suffer from depression. But I > lot of this stuff I bring on myself. Three months ago, I'd just recieved a > promotion at work, had my bills paid up, and this is after a year of no > meds whatsoever. All the sudden I decided I needed meds because my Dad said > so. > I think all this makes sense in the context of the family I grew up > in. I am very, very, very hard on myself, to the point its almost > laughable. And my family helps me out a whole lot in hating myself. My > father especially can never say, " your doing some things right. " Whenever > I come to him with a problem, his response is always, " go on medication. " > I take this to mean I do nothing right. And add on to that my > brother who thinks that I'm a dry drunk who is " in denial " 24/7 and maybe my > situation makes more sense. > I haven't ruled out anything as far as medications. I am seeing a > doctor as far as the withdrawal. But my predicament is now: if I tell my > Dad I've stopped the pills, no more relationship with Dad. My Dad and my > brother are from the same tree aren't they. Either I go to AA and take > prozac or I don't see them. Conditional love. Its great aint it!!!! > I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying to do > good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start over. " > Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 Thank you for your thoughtful post. I printed it off it was so helpful to me. I too agree that its crazy for me to continue to ask my father or brother for help. What happened was for about a year I stopped talking to my Dad. Then I got this job that's been going badly. So I got scared I was going to end up without income. So I went to my Dad for help. In the past several months, he's become more and more controlling about my life: telling me what doctors to go to, what meds to take, etc. In the past few weeks I've tried to stop calling him. I have noticed a change since stopping the meds. I able to enjoy watching dumb movies on tv again. I'm liking the music and documentarie I used to. And my sense of humor is returning. And I'm starting to feel things again, as opposed to feeling numb all the time. The thing I've had to realize is I was doing alright before the meds: work was going well, I was keeping up with my bills, I wasn't drinking. There was no dire need for me to go on prozac. I wasn't sitting at home, too depressed to work. I just am starting to appreciate feeling like my old self again. Sure life is stll scary and I have episodes of depression and anxiety. But I think I have tools to combat that now. A year ago a co-worker told me she felt bad for me because I was having such bad luck; at the time my Mom had just died, creditors were all over me, and I'd just lost my car. I told her as long as I could laugh at all of it I'd be ok. If I ever lost my sense of humor that would be the end.. I noticed on prozac I lost my sense of humor. Reality became unbearable. Matt >From: kayleighs@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: Life Without 12 Steps >Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:28:19 -0800 > >Where did your dad and stepmom get their medical degrees? I assume >they're not qualified to say you have ADD, are chemically dependent or >bipolar. I bet no doctor worth his salt would prescribe meds for you >because your dad and stepmom thought you needed them without exploring >the situation a whole lot further. > >I said some stuff about my mother in some of the last few posts in >response to yours, and when I did go to a shrink and got >anti-depressants I told him that my mother had told me since age 15 >that I was sick and needed therapy. After I'd seen him about six times >he told he thought my mother was sick and needed therapy. It sounds as >though our families are not that different in some respects. But are >you being honest with the doctor you are seeing? Have you said that >you are being threatened if you do not take anti-depressants? > >Don't go to your father with problems. He is making them worse, not >better. > >Never mind whether you are doing anything right. Is your dad? Is your >brother? Don't listen to them, they are not capable of judging. > >You are 28 years old, Matt, if I remember correctly. Your dad doesn't >have any right to know what medication you're on. If he were my dad, >and he's as nasty as you say, I wouldn't have any compunction about >lying to him. But I also have to ask, what would be so awful about not >getting money from him? It can seem awful not to have your parents' >support, but you are old enough to be supporting yourself. According >to what you say, you are quite capable of doing it, until your family >steps in and undermines you. > >It is hard to turn your back on family. If you do it, there is no >guarantee that they will become motivated to change and win you back, >as my mother apparently was. But when I turned my back on my mother, I >did not expect her to change. I had no reason to expect her to, and I >was willing to live with the consequences if she didn't. > >Do you need your father's financial help so badly that you are willing >to become crazy to get it? If what you say is true, you could get more >acceptance from someone at a bus stop or in a grocery line than you are >getting from your family. > >Perhaps you feel that you have never done anything right, as your >father says. That's what my mother said to me. And yet, I had always >done what she wanted. Good grades -- I had a 4.0 in H.S., didn't do >very well in college, yet went to an Ivy League school (which she >wanted), got a 4.0 in graduate school, in the top 10% in law school. >This wasn't good enough. I am well-dressed, a very important thing to >my mother, can sew like a Paris couturiere, as she taught me to. I'm >politically active. Very important to her. I share her values, the >ones she brought me up with, and I share them after examination, not >because I have to believe what my mom believes because she's my mom. >There is nothing about me that my mother should not like. And yet she >very clearly didn't like me until I stopped caring what she thought and >stopped trying to please her. I can't imagine how awful it would have >been if I had failed in any of those endeavors. I can't think of a >single thing I failed in that was important to her. But she didn't >care. > >Perhaps you haven't lived up to the standards that your father set. >What I'm trying to say, however, is that it probably would not have >mattered if you had. And you have to ask yourself, did he live up to >those expectations? Chances are he didn't. How can he ask it of you? > > " md matt " wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9259 > ><snip> > > > The thing I probably need to explain is that no medical > > professional has ever told me " go on antidepressants. " What has >happened is > > my father and stepmom have told me my whole life that I need >medication. At > > one time or another, they have diagnosed me as ADD, chemically >dependent, or > > bipolar. > > Anyway I went in several months back and told an MD " I need > > antidepressants " because my father said he wouldn't help me out >financially > > if I didn't do so. So, I've been volunteering to take these pills. >Its not > > like I keep having mental breakdowns and are prescibed meds. > > I'm not saying I'm normal and don't suffer from depression. > But I > > lot of this stuff I bring on myself. Three months ago, I'd just >recieved a > > promotion at work, had my bills paid up, and this is after a year of >no > > meds whatsoever. All the sudden I decided I needed meds because my >Dad said > > so. > > I think all this makes sense in the context of the family I >grew up > > in. I am very, very, very hard on myself, to the point its almost > > laughable. And my family helps me out a whole lot in hating myself. > My > > father especially can never say, " your doing some things right. " >Whenever > > I come to him with a problem, his response is always, " go on >medication. " > > I take this to mean I do nothing right. And add on to that >my > > brother who thinks that I'm a dry drunk who is " in denial " 24/7 and >maybe my > > situation makes more sense. > > I haven't ruled out anything as far as medications. I am >seeing a > > doctor as far as the withdrawal. But my predicament is now: if I >tell my > > Dad I've stopped the pills, no more relationship with Dad. My Dad >and my > > brother are from the same tree aren't they. Either I go to AA and >take > > prozac or I don't see them. Conditional love. Its great aint it!!!! > > I'd just love to hear someone say, " your ok. Just keep trying >to do > > good things for yourself. " Instead of all this, " you need to start >over. " > > Again, thanks for the feedback. Matt > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… >It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card >Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at >http://clickhere./click/1269 > > >-- 20 megs of disk space in your eGroup's Document Vault >-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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