Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Nicely explained Jim! Care to introduce yourself to the list? Who are you and how did you find us! Apple > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > questioning are disallowed. > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > banana. > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water. > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all > the > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > horror, > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > new > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > it > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > him > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > they > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > social/corporate > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Nicely explained Jim! Care to introduce yourself to the list? Who are you and how did you find us! Apple > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > questioning are disallowed. > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > banana. > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water. > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all > the > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > horror, > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > new > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > it > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > him > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > they > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > social/corporate > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Hi Jim Good to see you back on 12sf. I was teasing someone abt gun control recently! Best, Pete jim yelverton wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8801 > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > questioning are disallowed. > > > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > Before > long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > banana. > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water. > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all > the > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > horror, > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > new > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > it > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > him > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > they > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > social/corporate > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 I'm not really new. I've been set to " no mail " for about 6 to 8 months. I'm just another of the many people for whom AA wasn't right. I went to AA off and on for 5 years until I gave up and just decided to be a drunk. I was a drunk for about 5 more years until I ran a business I had into the ground and was stuck in a remote little town with no prospects. At that point I decided to quite drinking and to spend every last dime to get out of that town. I moved, returned to school, and returned to AA. Unfortunately, I ended up in what may be considered a bit of a bible belt and the strong religious attitudes were very much present in the AA meetings. It worked for a while, but eventually I dreaded going to meetings with people I didn't relate to and didn't respect. I can't say that AA harmed me, but I know now that I'm definitely an atheist and want no part of that spirituality bullshit. Anyway, just thought I'd forward the indoctrination story, which I received from another list. Anybody know what has happened to Ken? appledtp@... wrote: > > Nicely explained Jim! Care to introduce yourself to the list? Who are > you and how did you find us! > Apple > > > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > > questioning are disallowed. > > > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > > Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards > the > > banana. > > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold > water. > > > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - > all > > the > > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > > horror, > > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, > he > > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > > new > > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > > it > > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > > him > > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > > they > > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes > which > > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, > no > > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > > social/corporate > > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Ugh, I've seen lots of this--no wonder I don't go home for Xmas anymore :-) Hi, Jim--good to hear from you again! Cheers, . > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > questioning are disallowed. > > > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > Before > long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > banana. > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water. > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all > the > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > horror, > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > new > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > it > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > him > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > they > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > social/corporate > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Thanks, Pete. I'm mostly lurking on lists lately. This is a tough year at school and I'm trying to use the lists as a diversion without overdoing it. ) awatt04@... wrote: > > Hi Jim > > Good to see you back on 12sf. > > I was teasing someone abt gun control recently! > > Best, > Pete > > jim yelverton wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8801 > > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > > questioning are disallowed. > > > > > > > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > > Before > > long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > > banana. > > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold > water. > > > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - > all > > the > > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > > horror, > > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, > he > > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > > new > > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > > it > > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > > him > > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > > they > > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes > which > > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, > no > > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > > social/corporate > > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere./click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications -- A. Yelverton Graduate Director of Environmentalism, Gender Socialization, & Social Responsibility Research Team Department of Psychology California State University, Fresno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Thanks, Pete. I'm mostly lurking on lists lately. This is a tough year at school and I'm trying to use the lists as a diversion without overdoing it. ) awatt04@... wrote: > > Hi Jim > > Good to see you back on 12sf. > > I was teasing someone abt gun control recently! > > Best, > Pete > > jim yelverton wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8801 > > Indoctrination -- works everywhere where independent thinking and > > questioning are disallowed. > > > > > > > > Start with a cage containing five apes. > > > > In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. > > Before > > long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the > > banana. > > As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold > water. > > > > After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - > all > > the > > apes are sprayed with cold water. Turn off the cold water. If, later, > > another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try > > to prevent it even though no water sprays them. > > > > Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace him with a new one. > > The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his > > horror, > > all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, > he > > knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. > > > > Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a > > new > > one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous > > Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. > > > > Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes > > it > > to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat > > him > > have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why > > they > > are participating in the beating of the newest ape. > > > > After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes > which > > have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, > no > > ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? > > " Because that's the way it's always been around here. " > > That is how organizational behavior is indoctrinated into > > social/corporate > > policy and a culture becomes entrenched. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere./click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications -- A. Yelverton Graduate Director of Environmentalism, Gender Socialization, & Social Responsibility Research Team Department of Psychology California State University, Fresno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 At 06:21 PM 10/24/99 -0700, Jim Yelverton wrote: >I'm not really new. I've been set to " no mail " for about 6 to 8 >months. I'm just another of the many people for whom AA wasn't right. >I went to AA off and on for 5 years until I gave up and just decided to >be a drunk. I was a drunk for about 5 more years until I ran a business >I had into the ground and was stuck in a remote little town with no >prospects. At that point I decided to quite drinking and to spend every >last dime to get out of that town. I moved, returned to school, and >returned to AA. Unfortunately, I ended up in what may be considered a >bit of a bible belt and the strong religious attitudes were very much >present in the AA meetings. It worked for a while, but eventually I >dreaded going to meetings with people I didn't relate to and didn't >respect. I can't say that AA harmed me, but I know now that I'm >definitely an atheist and want no part of that spirituality bullshit. I remember when you showed up on the SOS list - you made a big huff about leaving in response to a post about an SOS meeting at a Unitarian Universalist church. I don't know if you read my response to the SOS list then, but I mentined being an atheist and have been attenting a UU congregation for the past four years. For those who don't know about UU's, our minister has said (only half jokokingly) that there are often complaints when a service has more than a passing reference to god. :-) After three to five years in AA (the first two totally buying into the AA dogma) i went back to my pre-AA atheistic beliefs, and I now 'believe in atheism' more strongly than ever. And I've also found it to be ironic that AA is 'spiritual but not religious', yet it had me convince that I should pray to a God, and in leaving AA I found the religion of UU-ism, where I can be theistic, deistic, paganistic, atheistic, or whatever I choose, to my heart's content, and no one tries to tell anyone else what to believe. >Anyway, just thought I'd forward the indoctrination story, which I >received from another list. I'd heard that on a talk radio show before - pretty much the same story, with no attribution. It was from Neal Boortz, <http://www.boortz.com >, who gets a lot of his info off the Internet (much of what he has said, I'd earlier read on the net - and there are also a few links to such things from his site), and so I'd guess he found the indoctrination story on the net too. Is there any verification of the story, or is it yet another urban legend? Maybe I should look for myself - there are several good 'is-this-urban-legend-for-real' site links on my own 'gullibility virus' web page. >Anybody know what has happened to Ken? His last post was several months back, and a recent email inquiry got no response (but at least it didn't bounce). IIRC, it seems that he and Bufe were working on a new book (or perhaps several), but don't know of anything more. ----- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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