Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 I went to see the therapist today who first told me to go to AA several years ago. I went through about 4 different emotional states during our one hour visit. I got angry, I cried, I laughed and I withdrew. And what was his answer to me? Take a wild guess where he told me to go. I told him about my problems with AA. He told me, 'well, just dont go then. " I asked him what the other options are. He didn't give one. He said I could take antibuse! I told him I wanted an abstinene based, non-religious support group. I told him if he knew of one I'd go tonight. Dead silence. But it was cool, I got to discuss with an AA advocate my problems with the program. He agreed with me that AA is not perfect and that addicts can get sober and happy without it. But he did criticize me for reading the " Cult or Cure " book. He said I was using it as ammunition against AA. He said he thought I had a chip on my shoulder and was acting hostile at AA meetings. I agree I have anger towards AA. Towards the advice I was given from my sponsor, towards the promises that never came true. He told me I was acting self focused. Among other things. I dont see, in the past I would of said he's right, I'm wrong. But I think there's a grey area to be found. I mean I've seen angry, hostile, bitter people. It just isn't me. I don't go to meetings and glare at people or speak up about how it doens't work. If anything I'm desperately withdrawn from AA people. I just don't say much but I am polite to the members. I think the therapist just wants be to be passive and smile. He told me I needed to be content. In my mind, that means don't get angry, don't question, don't be sad, etc... I've seen so-called content people in AA. And I really don't want to become that. I've become pretty frustrated towards society lately. But its ok. I've just got to try a different path. Instead of trying to change AA or my therapist or my family. I've got to seek out people who think like me. That's a headache sometime. If I hear anything more about god or religion or " let go, let god " I'm gonna vomit. Its just so hard for me when I feel like I'm being rational and making progress on my own, and to have people say, " nope, you still need to go to AA. " 11 years I've had people telling me to attend the program. In the past I've just gone so they'll quit bothering me. " OK, uncle. I give. Youre' right. I'll go. " Matt ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 Good for you Trixxi. I felt so lousy about myself after that therapy session today I didn't know what to do. I got admit I'm intimidated by the guy. He just seems so certain of himself. And yet I'm drawn back to him like a moth to a flame. I think there's a part of me that want's some father figure to tell me what to do. And another part of me that rebels like hell from that. But I was grilling myself all afternoon, the little voice in my head saying, " he's right. Your'e wrong. You've got to go to AA. Give yourself to the program. " Its funny before I had a really nice therapist. I actually thought she was being too nice to me. But she kept telling me I was normal and that AA just wasn't a good fit for me. That I needed to forget about it and move on. Live and learn. Today was another life lesson. A really bad one. Matt >From: butterbeana@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: Don't Get Angry, Smile >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:44:06 -0600 > >If I had a therapist talk like that to me, I'd get up and walk out the damn >door! I swear to " secular humanism " I will NEVER go to an AA meeting AGAIN >in my life...not EVEN at gunpoint! >~Trixxi > Don't Get Angry, Smile > > > > I went to see the therapist today who first told me to go to AA several > > years ago. I went through about 4 different emotional states during our >one > > hour visit. I got angry, I cried, I laughed and I withdrew. And what >was > > his answer to me? Take a wild guess where he told me to go. I told him > > about my problems with AA. He told me, 'well, just dont go then. " I >asked > > him what the other options are. He didn't give one. He said I could >take > > antibuse! > > I told him I wanted an abstinene based, non-religious support >group. > > I told him if he knew of one I'd go tonight. Dead silence. > > But it was cool, I got to discuss with an AA advocate my problems with >the > > program. He agreed with me that AA is not perfect and that addicts can >get > > sober and happy without it. > > But he did criticize me for reading the " Cult or Cure " book. He >said > > I was using it as ammunition against AA. He said he thought I had a >chip >on > > my shoulder and was acting hostile at AA meetings. > > I agree I have anger towards AA. Towards the advice I was given from my > > sponsor, towards the promises that never came true. > > He told me I was acting self focused. Among other things. I dont > > see, in the past I would of said he's right, I'm wrong. But I think >there's > > a grey area to be found. I mean I've seen angry, hostile, bitter >people. > > It just isn't me. I don't go to meetings and glare at people or speak >up > > about how it doens't work. If anything I'm desperately withdrawn from >AA > > people. I just don't say much but I am polite to the members. > > I think the therapist just wants be to be passive and smile. He >told > > me I needed to be content. In my mind, that means don't get angry, >don't > > question, don't be sad, etc... I've seen so-called content people in >AA. > > And I really don't want to become that. > > I've become pretty frustrated towards society lately. But its ok. > > I've just got to try a different path. Instead of trying to change AA >or >my > > therapist or my family. I've got to seek out people who think like me. > > That's a headache sometime. If I hear anything more about god or >religion > > or " let go, let god " I'm gonna vomit. > > Its just so hard for me when I feel like I'm being rational and >making > > progress on my own, and to have people say, " nope, you still need to go >to > > AA. " 11 years I've had people telling me to attend the program. In >the > > past I've just gone so they'll quit bothering me. " OK, uncle. I give. >Youre' > > right. I'll go. " > > Matt > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Mental Health Practitioner's Instant > > Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set > > of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a > > $139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at > > http://clickhere./click/1364 > > > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Mental Health Practitioner’s Instant >Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set >of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a >$139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at >http://clickhere./click/1364 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your eGroup! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 1999 Report Share Posted November 4, 1999 Hey . Yes, my therapist is a 10+ year member of AA. Like I said, he was the one who originally told me I was a addicted to alcohol and needed to go to meetings. Back then, I was very scared and agreed with him. I just desperately wanted an answer from someone and he gave me one: he said, " your an alcoholic. You need to go to AA. All you need to worry about is not drinking. " The simplicity appealed to me. Now, several years later I want a better answer. He did remark that I was being self focused. And I admit I am. I've been very worried about myself lately. And if I'm not gonna worry about myself, who is? You think he is? You think my family's losing sleep over my well being? No, I'm worried and I've refused to ask a lot of people because I know what the answer is going to be. If I go to AA and start to talk about my problems I'll get a bunch of " pray about it, " " let go, let god " " turn it over " and do a 4th step, " find your part in it. " As if I don't know my part in all this is. I think I do a daily 4th step without even being asked. I look at myself everyday in excrutiating detail. I think the last thing I need to do is keep doing that. My therapist said I had a chip on my shoulder, that I was self focused, etc... Its true. I hate the fact that AA is the only option. I hate AA. I hate the idea that I'm supposed to go to a program, pretend I like it and start talking about stuff I don't believe in (god and the big book.) I hate how AA members are so nice to each other during meetings but are impossible to get close to afterwards. I've had problems and concerns my whole life. Not huge, crazy problems. Stuff like bad days at work or disagreements with other people. Unfortunately, when ever I've talked to anyone about this I get some crazy reaction. From my family and from AA. Its either, " its all my fault (family) " or " you are powerless (AA). " I'd like to find better. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Don't Get Angry, Smile >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:10:36 -0600 > >Hi Matt; > >Let me get this straight Matt, a shrink told you that being " Self >Focused " was a BAD IDEA? > >My shrink was ready to jump for joy when getting self focused or >internal locus of control was established. > >Of course AA does tout external locus of control in the form of >asking a sponsor or higher power to make all the important >decisions. It's hard to imagine a qualified shring recomending >external locus of control, but in the age of AA anything is possible. > >I even heard a preacher say in a sermon " If you don't control your >circumstances, your circumstances will control you. " > >If he/she would have told me I was self focused, I'd of said " Thank >You. " > >Seriously Matt, if I don't focus on me, who will? > >Is it possible this shrink is also an AA/NA /Alanon member? > >Even AA says " It's a selfish program " Of course that's horse >hockey if you look at the program overall, but still they say it. > >Anyone who is not self focused, must be content with whatever >wind blows them and wherever it takes them, rather than taking the >responsibility for plotting their own course. > >Actually, I believe one problem all of us addicts have is being >externally focused. We react rather than act. > >Right now I'm going to REact, to an order for eight video players for >tomorrow, fortunately I have two of them done. > >Till Later, > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Mental Health Practitioner’s Instant >Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set >of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a >$139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at >http://clickhere./click/1364 > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 1999 Report Share Posted November 4, 1999 Hey . Yes, my therapist is a 10+ year member of AA. Like I said, he was the one who originally told me I was a addicted to alcohol and needed to go to meetings. Back then, I was very scared and agreed with him. I just desperately wanted an answer from someone and he gave me one: he said, " your an alcoholic. You need to go to AA. All you need to worry about is not drinking. " The simplicity appealed to me. Now, several years later I want a better answer. He did remark that I was being self focused. And I admit I am. I've been very worried about myself lately. And if I'm not gonna worry about myself, who is? You think he is? You think my family's losing sleep over my well being? No, I'm worried and I've refused to ask a lot of people because I know what the answer is going to be. If I go to AA and start to talk about my problems I'll get a bunch of " pray about it, " " let go, let god " " turn it over " and do a 4th step, " find your part in it. " As if I don't know my part in all this is. I think I do a daily 4th step without even being asked. I look at myself everyday in excrutiating detail. I think the last thing I need to do is keep doing that. My therapist said I had a chip on my shoulder, that I was self focused, etc... Its true. I hate the fact that AA is the only option. I hate AA. I hate the idea that I'm supposed to go to a program, pretend I like it and start talking about stuff I don't believe in (god and the big book.) I hate how AA members are so nice to each other during meetings but are impossible to get close to afterwards. I've had problems and concerns my whole life. Not huge, crazy problems. Stuff like bad days at work or disagreements with other people. Unfortunately, when ever I've talked to anyone about this I get some crazy reaction. From my family and from AA. Its either, " its all my fault (family) " or " you are powerless (AA). " I'd like to find better. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Don't Get Angry, Smile >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:10:36 -0600 > >Hi Matt; > >Let me get this straight Matt, a shrink told you that being " Self >Focused " was a BAD IDEA? > >My shrink was ready to jump for joy when getting self focused or >internal locus of control was established. > >Of course AA does tout external locus of control in the form of >asking a sponsor or higher power to make all the important >decisions. It's hard to imagine a qualified shring recomending >external locus of control, but in the age of AA anything is possible. > >I even heard a preacher say in a sermon " If you don't control your >circumstances, your circumstances will control you. " > >If he/she would have told me I was self focused, I'd of said " Thank >You. " > >Seriously Matt, if I don't focus on me, who will? > >Is it possible this shrink is also an AA/NA /Alanon member? > >Even AA says " It's a selfish program " Of course that's horse >hockey if you look at the program overall, but still they say it. > >Anyone who is not self focused, must be content with whatever >wind blows them and wherever it takes them, rather than taking the >responsibility for plotting their own course. > >Actually, I believe one problem all of us addicts have is being >externally focused. We react rather than act. > >Right now I'm going to REact, to an order for eight video players for >tomorrow, fortunately I have two of them done. > >Till Later, > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Mental Health Practitioner’s Instant >Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set >of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a >$139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at >http://clickhere./click/1364 > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 1999 Report Share Posted November 4, 1999 Hi Matt; I haven't followed the general discussion so I don't know if you've been alcohol free are moderating etc. However, alcohol was my symptom of another problem, PTSD. The shrink told me that treatment for stress and panic management would not work if I was drinking. Why work on a long time cure, when the quick cure works almost instantly? My shrink got me shot of AA and put my responsibilities on me where they belonged. As far as the stress you are putting on yourself, a decent real world shrink would probably help. The guy you have mentioned wants AA to do his work and AA isn't capable, so IMO, neither is he. What if he'd gotten " Healed " in The Baptist Church or at a Graham Revival Meeting? Would he have you trying to find Revival Meetings authorized by Graham? I believe that since we created the problems, we have the solutions within us. It just takes some professional assistance at times to get at them and recognize them. Were it me, I would seriously consider getting a new shrink. Preferably one that does not depend on God to their job for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 1999 Report Share Posted November 4, 1999 Hey . I drank 6 beers last Saturday night. The first time I drank in 9 months. I've probably used alcohol 3 times in the past 2 years. I think about drinking. But its really a dead issue for me. Even when I do use I just want to stop immediately. The fact is it doesn't help me escape my problems anymore. Its one big headache for me to ingest alcohol anymore. So I don't bother. I hate the physical pains, the hangovers and mainly, I hate the fact that it gives others something to hold against me (AA, family). I'd rather not hear them all tell me, " your'e just a drunk. " So alcohol is one big pain in the ass in my opinion. These people that go out to clubs every weekend baffle me. It just seems like such a hard life. Financially, physically and mentally. Its a pain trying to find a designated driver, trying to avoid any type of trouble at the club. for ex: " you looking at my girl punk? " Clubs are very unpredictable. I don't know how people go all the time without having problematic lives. For me, I'd rather watch tv or check out a good documentary. Its fun watching about other people's lives, I don't have to worry about my own for a while. That's my escape. If you'd asked me 4 years ago what my favorite thing to do was, drinking would be high on the list. Now, it wouldn't even make the list. I'd put it up there with doing the laundry and cleaning the bathroom! No. I know some people can drink responsibly and get enjoyment out of it. I just don't know of many. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Don't Get Angry, Smile >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:14:57 -0600 > >Hi Matt; > >I haven't followed the general discussion so I don't know if you've >been alcohol free are moderating etc. > >However, alcohol was my symptom of another problem, PTSD. >The shrink told me that treatment for stress and panic >management would not work if I was drinking. Why work on a long >time cure, when the quick cure works almost instantly? My shrink >got me shot of AA and put my responsibilities on me where they >belonged. > >As far as the stress you are putting on yourself, a decent real world >shrink would probably help. The guy you have mentioned wants >AA to do his work and AA isn't capable, so IMO, neither is he. >What if he'd gotten " Healed " in The Baptist Church or at a >Graham Revival Meeting? Would he have you trying to find Revival >Meetings authorized by Graham? > >I believe that since we created the problems, we have the solutions >within us. It just takes some professional assistance at times to >get at them and recognize them. > >Were it me, I would seriously consider getting a new shrink. >Preferably one that does not depend on God to their job for them. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Mental Health Practitioner’s Instant >Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set >of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a >$139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at >http://clickhere./click/1364 > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 1999 Report Share Posted November 4, 1999 Hey . I drank 6 beers last Saturday night. The first time I drank in 9 months. I've probably used alcohol 3 times in the past 2 years. I think about drinking. But its really a dead issue for me. Even when I do use I just want to stop immediately. The fact is it doesn't help me escape my problems anymore. Its one big headache for me to ingest alcohol anymore. So I don't bother. I hate the physical pains, the hangovers and mainly, I hate the fact that it gives others something to hold against me (AA, family). I'd rather not hear them all tell me, " your'e just a drunk. " So alcohol is one big pain in the ass in my opinion. These people that go out to clubs every weekend baffle me. It just seems like such a hard life. Financially, physically and mentally. Its a pain trying to find a designated driver, trying to avoid any type of trouble at the club. for ex: " you looking at my girl punk? " Clubs are very unpredictable. I don't know how people go all the time without having problematic lives. For me, I'd rather watch tv or check out a good documentary. Its fun watching about other people's lives, I don't have to worry about my own for a while. That's my escape. If you'd asked me 4 years ago what my favorite thing to do was, drinking would be high on the list. Now, it wouldn't even make the list. I'd put it up there with doing the laundry and cleaning the bathroom! No. I know some people can drink responsibly and get enjoyment out of it. I just don't know of many. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Don't Get Angry, Smile >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:14:57 -0600 > >Hi Matt; > >I haven't followed the general discussion so I don't know if you've >been alcohol free are moderating etc. > >However, alcohol was my symptom of another problem, PTSD. >The shrink told me that treatment for stress and panic >management would not work if I was drinking. Why work on a long >time cure, when the quick cure works almost instantly? My shrink >got me shot of AA and put my responsibilities on me where they >belonged. > >As far as the stress you are putting on yourself, a decent real world >shrink would probably help. The guy you have mentioned wants >AA to do his work and AA isn't capable, so IMO, neither is he. >What if he'd gotten " Healed " in The Baptist Church or at a >Graham Revival Meeting? Would he have you trying to find Revival >Meetings authorized by Graham? > >I believe that since we created the problems, we have the solutions >within us. It just takes some professional assistance at times to >get at them and recognize them. > >Were it me, I would seriously consider getting a new shrink. >Preferably one that does not depend on God to their job for them. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Mental Health Practitioner’s Instant >Resource Library for $5.99! A 4-book set >of time-saving aids for clinical tasks - a >$139.35 value. Join the book club NOW at >http://clickhere./click/1364 > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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