Re: progesterone therapy and dietary changes/new member

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

Bonnie - i'm much more of a " listener " on this as well as embo group but i

feel like i know you as well as some of our other fibroid friends who post

frequently...just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also with gg and

Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

Bonnie - i'm much more of a " listener " on this as well as embo group but i

feel like i know you as well as some of our other fibroid friends who post

frequently...just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also with gg and

Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

I have found control with prosgetin therapy.

Bonnie

ceeejaaa@... wrote:

> Hi ladies

> New to the group. Just diagnosed last week. Reading all the info and

> posts I can (thanks for all the info and opinions that have been

> shared) I have 2 questions 1.Has anyone found sucess with

> progesterone therapy alone in controlling the bleeding.

> 2. What dietary changes are recommended to help control bleeding and/

> or reduce or stop the growth of fibroids.

>

> I have had severe bleeding for a year and Drs. Have found several

> small fibroids. Not sure of their location.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

I have found control with prosgetin therapy.

Bonnie

ceeejaaa@... wrote:

> Hi ladies

> New to the group. Just diagnosed last week. Reading all the info and

> posts I can (thanks for all the info and opinions that have been

> shared) I have 2 questions 1.Has anyone found sucess with

> progesterone therapy alone in controlling the bleeding.

> 2. What dietary changes are recommended to help control bleeding and/

> or reduce or stop the growth of fibroids.

>

> I have had severe bleeding for a year and Drs. Have found several

> small fibroids. Not sure of their location.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

I'd like to add that I am near menopause and this factor may make a

diifference,in terms of control.

Bonnie

ceeejaaa@... wrote:

> Hi ladies

> New to the group. Just diagnosed last week. Reading all the info and

> posts I can (thanks for all the info and opinions that have been

> shared) I have 2 questions 1.Has anyone found sucess with

> progesterone therapy alone in controlling the bleeding.

> 2. What dietary changes are recommended to help control bleeding and/

> or reduce or stop the growth of fibroids.

>

> I have had severe bleeding for a year and Drs. Have found several

> small fibroids. Not sure of their location.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

I'd like to add that I am near menopause and this factor may make a

diifference,in terms of control.

Bonnie

ceeejaaa@... wrote:

> Hi ladies

> New to the group. Just diagnosed last week. Reading all the info and

> posts I can (thanks for all the info and opinions that have been

> shared) I have 2 questions 1.Has anyone found sucess with

> progesterone therapy alone in controlling the bleeding.

> 2. What dietary changes are recommended to help control bleeding and/

> or reduce or stop the growth of fibroids.

>

> I have had severe bleeding for a year and Drs. Have found several

> small fibroids. Not sure of their location.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

JoansieP wrote:

> just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

> maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

> unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also

with gg and

> Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

Go to http://www.google.com and in the search box, type in

ma po tofu

You will find many different recipes for it.

The sauce might be difficult to find if you don't live near Asian

populations. You might find the sauce in health food stores that

carry oriental food or in supermarkets that carry ethnic food. The

sauce can come in a box, in a packet, or in a jar. The Japanese call

it Mabo-dofu. Buy some tofu and follow the recipe on the package. It

is spicy.

Here is a link to the sauce that I bought, Lee Kum Kee Sauce for Ma

Po Tofu:

http://home.lkk.com/product_details.asp?categoryid=7 & sauceid=71

I'm not crazy about the sauce though. I might have to add different

things to the dish till I like the taste.

Chinese restaurants that serve Szechuan food might have it on the

menu. Sometimes it might be called Tofu with Szechuan sauce. There

might be other names for it too. Not all restaurants can make a good

Ma Po Tofu though.

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

JoansieP wrote:

> just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

> maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

> unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also

with gg and

> Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

Go to http://www.google.com and in the search box, type in

ma po tofu

You will find many different recipes for it.

The sauce might be difficult to find if you don't live near Asian

populations. You might find the sauce in health food stores that

carry oriental food or in supermarkets that carry ethnic food. The

sauce can come in a box, in a packet, or in a jar. The Japanese call

it Mabo-dofu. Buy some tofu and follow the recipe on the package. It

is spicy.

Here is a link to the sauce that I bought, Lee Kum Kee Sauce for Ma

Po Tofu:

http://home.lkk.com/product_details.asp?categoryid=7 & sauceid=71

I'm not crazy about the sauce though. I might have to add different

things to the dish till I like the taste.

Chinese restaurants that serve Szechuan food might have it on the

menu. Sometimes it might be called Tofu with Szechuan sauce. There

might be other names for it too. Not all restaurants can make a good

Ma Po Tofu though.

Posted February 16, 2001 · February 16, 2001

Bonnie - i can only speak for myself but i think a bit of humor and personal

tidbits add and enlighten and brighten my day especially when reading tons of

sometimes boring medical material...i was directed to " egroups " a while back

by Pam who i met thru the fibroidzone on line and we have since become great

long distance frineds who even share the same birthday coming up on tuesday!!

(i'm in new york, she's in CA) i still consider myself a computer dummy but

somehow with Pam's help navigated thru egroups to regiester for this group as

well as the " embo " egroup and get many posts every day from both...i had UAE

10 months ago with limited success...one of two large fibroids had 20%

shrinkage at a 3month post sonogram but other significant fibroid had no

shrinkage at all...that's when i learned about secondary blood vessels

feeding into the uterus (i was at 4-5mo fetus size)...it did push me over

that edge into menopause so i'm still hoping for additional shrinkage but

continue to suffer from bladder pressure and bulk symptoms and am afraid of

taking ERT for fear of fueling fibroids further...interesting at 10 months

post i'm having some dark staining (not a period for sure) which i love to

believe can still be fibroids draining! anyone experience this so long after

UAE? thanks for all your input...Joan

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Bonnie - i've been to a ugogynecologist to make sure i didn't have any

bladder problems aside from fibroids...he tried a few treatments to no avail

re my bladder problems and is basically recommending a hyst as is my gyn but

i have chosen to " wait & see " since i am in full menopause now...Pam is the

gal with lots of bleeding who recently had an emergency bleeding episode and

was rushed to the hospital ...she's having hysteroscopic resection feb 23

....may i email you privately re the embo group? Joan

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Bonnie - i've been to a ugogynecologist to make sure i didn't have any

bladder problems aside from fibroids...he tried a few treatments to no avail

re my bladder problems and is basically recommending a hyst as is my gyn but

i have chosen to " wait & see " since i am in full menopause now...Pam is the

gal with lots of bleeding who recently had an emergency bleeding episode and

was rushed to the hospital ...she's having hysteroscopic resection feb 23

....may i email you privately re the embo group? Joan

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Joansie,

I never can tell if my horsing around is putting people off or not.I don't think

Mapo can be found in

the grocery store,but then it might be.Its just a Chinese way to prepare

tofu,which I find delicious

and therefore one way of keeping on a mostly vegetarian diet.

What is the website for the embo group?

I'm still having weird stuff happening 17mos. post UAE and maybe someone on that

group could relate.

Best Bonnie

t

JoansieP@... wrote:

> Bonnie - i'm much more of a " listener " on this as well as embo group but i

> feel like i know you as well as some of our other fibroid friends who post

> frequently...just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

> maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

> unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also with gg and

> Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

>

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Joansie,

That's great abt you and Pam.Since my disastreous UAE Oct./99 I have found that

even maintaining

friendships I had, difficult.

Anyway,I wonder if there is any usefulness in having a sample of this discharge?

Also,maybe you could

have an ultra sound or other test to be sure the kidneys are okay.

By the way,is Pam the one with " weird symtoms " so long after UAE?

Also,how can I get into the embo group?

Nice to hear from you Joansie

Best,

Bonnie

JoansieP@... wrote:

> Bonnie - i can only speak for myself but i think a bit of humor and personal

> tidbits add and enlighten and brighten my day especially when reading tons of

> sometimes boring medical material...i was directed to " egroups " a while back

> by Pam who i met thru the fibroidzone on line and we have since become great

> long distance frineds who even share the same birthday coming up on tuesday!!

> (i'm in new york, she's in CA) i still consider myself a computer dummy but

> somehow with Pam's help navigated thru egroups to regiester for this group as

> well as the " embo " egroup and get many posts every day from both...i had UAE

> 10 months ago with limited success...one of two large fibroids had 20%

> shrinkage at a 3month post sonogram but other significant fibroid had no

> shrinkage at all...that's when i learned about secondary blood vessels

> feeding into the uterus (i was at 4-5mo fetus size)...it did push me over

> that edge into menopause so i'm still hoping for additional shrinkage but

> continue to suffer from bladder pressure and bulk symptoms and am afraid of

> taking ERT for fear of fueling fibroids further...interesting at 10 months

> post i'm having some dark staining (not a period for sure) which i love to

> believe can still be fibroids draining! anyone experience this so long after

> UAE? thanks for all your input...Joan

>

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Bonnie Andrukaitis wrote:

> Also,how can I get into the embo group?

Click on this link and register:

http://groups.yahoo.com/

For embo group, enter the group name embo

For this group, enter the group name uterinefibroids

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Bonnie Andrukaitis wrote:

> Also,how can I get into the embo group?

Click on this link and register:

http://groups.yahoo.com/

For embo group, enter the group name embo

For this group, enter the group name uterinefibroids

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Humor dosen't put me off. I like the lightness for balance. These are very

serious health concerns being

discussed and I honor that, but I believe laughter, as much as food, heals. I

shouldn't say this but it

just popped in my head. My father, who had a tremendous sense of humor, died

with laughter on his lips

and a squeeze of appreciation that he got the punch line of the last joke I told

him. I guess I come

from that orientation. Anyway, great comedy comes sometimes, from great issues.

It helps to lessen the

load. just an opinion. I appreciate it. gg

Bonnie Andrukaitis wrote:

> Joansie,

> I never can tell if my horsing around is putting people off or not.I don't

think Mapo can be found in

> the grocery store,but then it might be.Its just a Chinese way to prepare

tofu,which I find delicious

> and therefore one way of keeping on a mostly vegetarian diet.

> What is the website for the embo group?

> I'm still having weird stuff happening 17mos. post UAE and maybe someone on

that group could relate.

> Best Bonnie

> t

>

> JoansieP@... wrote:

>

> > Bonnie - i'm much more of a " listener " on this as well as embo group but i

> > feel like i know you as well as some of our other fibroid friends who post

> > frequently...just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or is it

> > maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

> > unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also with gg and

> > Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

> >

Posted February 17, 2001 · February 17, 2001

Thank you for the information you have been sending. Can someone tell me

the benefits of taking soy for

fibroids.

Anita

Re: progesterone therapy and dietary changes/new

member

> Humor dosen't put me off. I like the lightness for balance. These are very

serious health concerns being

> discussed and I honor that, but I believe laughter, as much as food,

heals. I shouldn't say this but it

> just popped in my head. My father, who had a tremendous sense of humor,

died with laughter on his lips

> and a squeeze of appreciation that he got the punch line of the last joke

I told him. I guess I come

> from that orientation. Anyway, great comedy comes sometimes, from great

issues. It helps to lessen the

> load. just an opinion. I appreciate it. gg

>

> Bonnie Andrukaitis wrote:

>

> > Joansie,

> > I never can tell if my horsing around is putting people off or not.I

don't think Mapo can be found in

> > the grocery store,but then it might be.Its just a Chinese way to prepare

tofu,which I find delicious

> > and therefore one way of keeping on a mostly vegetarian diet.

> > What is the website for the embo group?

> > I'm still having weird stuff happening 17mos. post UAE and maybe someone

on that group could relate.

> > Best Bonnie

> > t

> >

> > JoansieP@... wrote:

> >

> > > Bonnie - i'm much more of a " listener " on this as well as embo group

but i

> > > feel like i know you as well as some of our other fibroid friends who

post

> > > frequently...just wondering if you were kidding about eating mapo or

is it

> > > maypo?? i actually looked for it today in the supermarket but was

> > > unsuccessful...it's fun to hear the sharing of your recipes also with

gg and

> > > Donna!! thanks for adding some humor to our groups! Joan

> > >

Posted February 18, 2001 · February 18, 2001

" Ken Liggett " wrote:

> Can someone tell me the benefits of taking soy for fibroids.

> Anita

Dr. Weil can explain it better than me.

Click here:

http://www.drweil.com/archiveqa/0,2283,1060,00.html

If you enter soy in the search box on Dr. Weil's page, you will find

more articles on the benefits of soy.

Or you can enter fibroids in the search box on Dr. Weil's page, you

will find more articles on fibroids.

Posted February 18, 2001 · February 18, 2001

>Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21

Subject: Re: progesterone therapy and dietary changes/new member

>Thank you for the information you have been sending. Can someone tell me

>the benefits of taking soy for fibroids.

>Anita

No one really knows, Anita. Lack of research. Search the group message archives

for soy and soya and you will find previous discussions. Soya products are

healthy foods if eaten in moderation, but there isn't a case for consuming large

amounts.

Soya is thought to help with menopausal symptoms and preventing breast cancer.

For menopausal women the phytoestrogens in soya are thought to help when the

body is low in human oestrogens. The argument for fibroid management is that

plant oestrogens, which are weaker than some of our own oestrogens might be

taken up by our body's oestrogen receptors in preference to human oestrogens.

But I have also read a couple of doctor's statements that soya might actually

encourage fibroid growth! They didn't give much detail. Perhaps fibroids just

keep growing and growing more receptor sites and taking as much oestrogen and

phytooestrogen as they can get??

I was a long-term vegetarian when I discovered I had large and numerous

fibroids. The fibroids weren't very symptomatic so I didn't realise I had them

until uterus was very enlarged. I ate a bit of tofu fairly often. My diet is

generally high in isoflavones and phytoestrogens. After diagnosis I cut down

very much on tea and on dairy products. I became a little bit slimmer. My

fibroids continued to grow.

Dietary changes and complementary medicine are reputed to help with symptoms of

fibroids, esp. bleeding and pain. The case for these methods reducing fibroid

size seems weak. IF your fibroids grow very large, you can expect pressure

symptoms (commonly on bladder and bowels).

Carla Dionne wrote something in her diary at her website www.uterinefibroids.com

about a difference between the effect of vegetarianism on submucosal and

subserosal fibroids.

Posted February 18, 2001 · February 18, 2001

I want to clarify a couple of points from my previous message in this thread.

1) I personally am in favour of women trying dietary improvements and

complementary/alternative therapies if/when

- stronger immediate intervention isn't needed

- there is no reason to believe that the treatment might have adverse

effects

It is important to bear in mind that UAE and surgical treatments are less

effective or more difficult with fibroids over ~ 10 cm. If fibroids are on the

large side it might be wise to go ahead with this sort of conventional

intervention before they grow any larger.

2) Re my doubts about diets and complementary and alternative therapies

shrinking fibroids; perhaps sometimes expulsion of a submucosal fibroid might be

encouraged??? Any reports of this happening apparently due to non-orthodox

treatment?

Posted February 18, 2001 · February 18, 2001

I want to clarify a couple of points from my previous message in this thread.

1) I personally am in favour of women trying dietary improvements and

complementary/alternative therapies if/when

- stronger immediate intervention isn't needed

- there is no reason to believe that the treatment might have adverse

effects

It is important to bear in mind that UAE and surgical treatments are less

effective or more difficult with fibroids over ~ 10 cm. If fibroids are on the

large side it might be wise to go ahead with this sort of conventional

intervention before they grow any larger.

2) Re my doubts about diets and complementary and alternative therapies

shrinking fibroids; perhaps sometimes expulsion of a submucosal fibroid might be

encouraged??? Any reports of this happening apparently due to non-orthodox

treatment?

Posted February 19, 2001 · February 19, 2001

I never had much problem with excessive bleeding. My periods were

irregular and I had mid cycle bleeding. However, when I reached 46,

my periods went from 3-4 days to about 9. I had my fibroids out, but

my periods have stayed around 9 days. So, I think that it is a

menopause thing.

While I had fibroids, the one thing that seemed to regulate my

periods and ended the mid-cycle bleeding was chastetree berry or

vitex. It is slow acting (3 months) a hormone regulator that can be

safely taken for up to 2 years. My fibroids also did not grow during

the time that I used it. Occasionaly women on websites I visit have

reported slight shrinking with it's regular use. I have also used

progesterone cream for about one and a half years now. I had my

fibroids out shortly after beginning it. Progesterone cream has a

jeckle and hyde side to it. It sensitizes cells to estrogen. Studies

with synthetic progesterones have found that they stimulate fibroid

growth. But, synthetics are not chemically the same as natural so who

knows if these results apply to natural progesterone. I tested my

hormone levels and my progesterone levels were low. I do benifit in

several ways from it, so I don't want to stop.

Some things you can do that have estrogen inhibiting effects are: (1)

Get lots of flavanoids found in fruits and green vegetables.

Flavanoids that can be purchased that inhibit excessive cell growth

are: Quercitin, found in onions and all kinds of other veggies,

curcumen, an estract of the spice tumeric, and chyrsin and extract

from the passion flower that is a favorite of bodybuilders for

estrogen inhibition. (2)Get plenty of the vitimins folic acid and

B12. These two vitimins are essential for the healthy breakdown of

estrone into non-cell proliferating non-carcinogenic metabolites. A

couple of studies have found that fibroids convert estradiol to

estrone at high rates. (Estrone is weaker than estradiol but still

cell growth stimulating. My estrone levels were found to be very high

and my estradiol was low.) As women reach their 40's, studies are

showing that they take up less and less of these two vitimins and

often are deficient. People over 60 have high deficiency rates. Red

meat is a good source, however, studies have shown that women who eat

lots of red meat have higher rates of fibroids. (3) Eat lots of

brocolli, cauliflower, cabbage and other brascicas. They contain

potent anti-cancer substances that cause the breakdown of estrone

into inactive metabolites. They also minimize the damage from

environmental carcinogens to the body. Or, look into Indole-3-

carbinol, an estract of these that is showing great promise in

treating estrogen related cancers. (4) Eat lots of brans and beans.

They contain lignins and fiber that can lower blood estrogen levels

up to 25%. (5) Take flax seed oil (min. of 2 tbls/day) or eat fish 3

times a week. They contain essential fatty acids neccessary for

healthy hormone metabolism and have been shown to sygnificantly

reduce breast cancer risk. Studies have shown that most Americans are

deficient in these substances. Essential fatty acids are also anti-

inflamatory which may halp with bleeding. (6) Get plenty of excercise

and loose weight. This has been shown to sygnificantly alter hormone

metabolism away from excessive estrogen production. (7)Avoid

alergins. They cause inflamatory reactions in the body that alter

many hormones in a negative way. (8) Try a vegatarian diet, avoiding

dairy products. Vegetarians have been found to have higher levels of

esriol, the weakest cell growth inhibiting, cancer inhibiting

estrogen. (9) Investigate other anti-inflamatory herbs, such as

nettle.

Hope this helps.

Tish

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001

Tish wrote:

" Progesterone cream has a jeckle and hyde side to it. It sensitizes cells to

estrogen. Studies with synthetic progesterones have found that they stimulate

fibroid

growth. But, synthetics are not chemically the same as natural so who

knows if these results apply to natural progesterone. "

I know that there is both clinical and associative evidence that progesterone

can stimulate fibroid growth. By associative I mean such information as the

commonplace growth of fibroids during pregnancy and the evidence that the

anti-progesterone U-486 shrinks fibroids. Yet progesterone treatments can be

effective in reducing bleeding and some people claim other benefits.

I don't know specifically which studies Tish refers to or what types of

progesterone replacement was administered. The distinction between natural and

synthetic may not be applicable in this case. We are talking about a

progesterone derived from plants, not human progesterone. The usual advantages

of herbal medicine, as I understand them, are that the doses are milder and

that chemicals in the plant other than the active ingredient bestow synergistic

benefits. But progesterone creams are manufactured; our bodies can't convert

plant diosgenins to progesterone so this must be done in the lab. Most of the

" synthetic " progesterones prescribed by doctors are also derived from plant

diosgenins.

I would accept the case for administering progesterone transdermally (cream or

patches) or by suppository rather than orally. Larger, more toxic doses are

required orally and this puts a strain on the liver.

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001