Us Vs. Them

[Guest guest]

Several months ago at my former job, I met a new co-worker who told me he

knew me from AA. I didn't remember the guy. Evidently he heard me speak at

a discussion meeting a year ago. Anyway, we ended up working pretty close

together. I noticed something about this guy. He hated everyone. He was

taking everyone else's inventories. 'she smokes too much, she doesn't come

in on time.' He couldn't get along with anyone. Always arguing and having

disagreements.

But he treated me well. He never argued with me. It was like, I was

ok because I was a " friend of Bill W. " He was pissed at all other 50

co-workers, but not me. And what's funny is, I've been out of the 12 step

program for 15 months.

Unfortunately, I began to buy into his paranoid delusions. His anger

began to wear off on me. I started to think just like him, " yeah, these

people are all screwed up. I'm better than them. They're all clueless and

insane. " Funny thing happened though, once he left (he was let go), my

anger quickly faded. I began to get along with my co-workers better and

stopped feeling so paranoid. I felt like a dark cloud had been lifted. Of

course, he would stop by occasionally and all hell would break loose.

I think the guy's problem was he didn't want to have to get close to

other people. To truly cope well with people's different opinions and

personalities. He couldn't handle not being in control, not being around a

bunch of people who talk the same way and preach the same message (12 step.)

And that's what exposure to the XA mentality does to a person. You

take someone who already has a faulty understanding about connecting with

other people and make them even more paranoid and disconnected. And it just

doesn't apply to the real world. If you look at this acceptance deal from a

different angle it makes more sense.

#1) I have to unconditionally accept myself for who I am. The things

I'm proud of, the things I'm ashamed of.

#2) I have to apply that same rule to others. Accepting that others

are not always going to agree with me. That people have different

interests, ideas and talents. And instead of trying to " convert " these

people to my way of thinking, I should enjoy there uniqueness and respect

there right to be different.

Somehow that message gets mixed up in AA. Most its members get the

idea that 'they know about something the rest of the world doesn't know

about.' That something meaning the 12 steps. And this makes the dedicated

member cynical and judgemental towards non-XA members.

I can't tell you how many times I heard in meetings that, 'we know what

is right. Everyone in the world should practice the 12 steps.' And the one

that get's me is there idea that 'all the world's problems are caused by

ignorance of the 12 step program.' Meaning, that things like cancer, crime

and tragic accidents could all be avoided if everyone simply " turned it over

to god. "

How pretentious and egotistical can you get? And a lot of serious

minded XA members preach that. They believe deep down, that everyone is bad

or manipulative except people in 12 step programs. And they wonder why they

are so miserable all the time. The bad thing is the thing that is

manipulating them is the big book, the meetings and the members.

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt:

I know how you feel about the “secret society.” I am now an ex member,

but share a job with an active member with whom I used to have a

friendly rapport. We’ve had some great conversations and I really like

her, but...... Seems that our political/religious differences just

can’t be overcome. What used to be wonderful conversation, has been

replaced by an unpleasant coldness, and I know why... because I haven’t

yet given up my silly activities and gone back to meetings. That makes

me out of the loop. No more special priviledge into privy

conversations. I’m a normie now instead of one of “them”. It makes

me sad, because I really like her, I wish that we could get beyond it,

but the situation seems to be infected with the 12 step virus, the one

that ruins relationships, and so many marriages too when one spouse

joins Generation Step.

Apple

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt:

I know how you feel about the “secret society.” I am now an ex member,

but share a job with an active member with whom I used to have a

friendly rapport. We’ve had some great conversations and I really like

her, but...... Seems that our political/religious differences just

can’t be overcome. What used to be wonderful conversation, has been

replaced by an unpleasant coldness, and I know why... because I haven’t

yet given up my silly activities and gone back to meetings. That makes

me out of the loop. No more special priviledge into privy

conversations. I’m a normie now instead of one of “them”. It makes

me sad, because I really like her, I wish that we could get beyond it,

but the situation seems to be infected with the 12 step virus, the one

that ruins relationships, and so many marriages too when one spouse

joins Generation Step.

Apple

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt,

Everything in your post sounds familiar to me.

When I was going to meetings all the time, I used to hear this sick

phrase: " I feel sorry for those people on the outside. They don't have

a program to work like we do. "

Ironically, they constantly imply that one of the alcoholic's problems

is feeling " unique " . Funny how we are doomed if we are unique as

INDIVIDUALS, but expected to be unique AS A GROUP.

I guess it all goes back to that fascist first tradition: group before

the individual.

Everytime I heard the term " earth people " in meetings, I would always

feel uncomfortable. I felt like I could relate more to the normies

than the AA's.

I may have a problem with abusing alcohol, but it sure feels nice to be

an EARTH PERSON.

" md matt " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8366

> Several months ago at my former job, I met a new co-worker who told

me he

> knew me from AA. I didn't remember the guy. Evidently he heard me

speak at

> a discussion meeting a year ago. Anyway, we ended up working pretty

close

> together. I noticed something about this guy. He hated everyone.

He was

> taking everyone else's inventories. 'she smokes too much, she

doesn't come

> in on time.' He couldn't get along with anyone. Always arguing and

having

> disagreements.

> But he treated me well. He never argued with me. It was

like, I was

> ok because I was a " friend of Bill W. " He was pissed at all other 50

> co-workers, but not me. And what's funny is, I've been out of the 12

step

> program for 15 months.

> Unfortunately, I began to buy into his paranoid delusions. His

anger

> began to wear off on me. I started to think just like him, " yeah,

these

> people are all screwed up. I'm better than them. They're all

clueless and

> insane. " Funny thing happened though, once he left (he was let go),

my

> anger quickly faded. I began to get along with my co-workers better

and

> stopped feeling so paranoid. I felt like a dark cloud had been

lifted. Of

> course, he would stop by occasionally and all hell would break loose.

> I think the guy's problem was he didn't want to have to get

close to

> other people. To truly cope well with people's different opinions

and

> personalities. He couldn't handle not being in control, not being

around a

> bunch of people who talk the same way and preach the same message (12

step.)

> And that's what exposure to the XA mentality does to a person.

You

> take someone who already has a faulty understanding about connecting

with

> other people and make them even more paranoid and disconnected. And

it just

> doesn't apply to the real world. If you look at this acceptance deal

from a

> different angle it makes more sense.

> #1) I have to unconditionally accept myself for who I am. The

things

> I'm proud of, the things I'm ashamed of.

> #2) I have to apply that same rule to others. Accepting that

others

> are not always going to agree with me. That people have different

> interests, ideas and talents. And instead of trying to " convert "

these

> people to my way of thinking, I should enjoy there uniqueness and

respect

> there right to be different.

> Somehow that message gets mixed up in AA. Most its members get

the

> idea that 'they know about something the rest of the world doesn't

know

> about.' That something meaning the 12 steps. And this makes the

dedicated

> member cynical and judgemental towards non-XA members.

> I can't tell you how many times I heard in meetings that, 'we

know what

> is right. Everyone in the world should practice the 12 steps.' And

the one

> that get's me is there idea that 'all the world's problems are caused

by

> ignorance of the 12 step program.' Meaning, that things like cancer,

crime

> and tragic accidents could all be avoided if everyone simply " turned

it over

> to god. "

> How pretentious and egotistical can you get? And a lot of

serious

> minded XA members preach that. They believe deep down, that everyone

is bad

> or manipulative except people in 12 step programs. And they wonder

why they

> are so miserable all the time. The bad thing is the thing that is

> manipulating them is the big book, the meetings and the members.

>

>

> ______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It's so sad! My brother became a " Jews for Jesus " messianic jew, and I

have the same problem with him. He won't discuss anything without

filtering it thru the " gospel " of his religion. He has become the most

depressed, distrustful sad person I know. But he swears that Jesus

saved his life and his family. Even this long after I've left 12 step,

he is still praying for me to return and name his god as my HP while

I'm at it.

This is a cult thing. What's particularly dangerous to the rest of the

world is that they don't lock themselves away in their little compounds

in the mountains ala branch dividians etc. They are sent forth to

spread the word!

Ironically, (though I have to take my brother's inventory to tell you

this), he still comes to Vegas regularly to drink, cheat on his wife

and gamble, justifying it with " I'm on vacation, at least I'm not doing

it at home anymore and screwing up my life. Now when he's home, he

ignores his family by hiding behind a screen name in numerous chat

rooms. Anonymity is expanding! Were he 12-stepping, he would add " but

relapse is normal "

He has labeled me a " them " and won't be happy till I relent. I of

course would like to respect his religious beliefs, but he makes it

very difficult when he sends me nightly " jesus loves you " emails. He

has no respect for my lack of religious beliefs. Maybe I should just

let it go.

>

> ______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It's so sad! My brother became a " Jews for Jesus " messianic jew, and I

have the same problem with him. He won't discuss anything without

filtering it thru the " gospel " of his religion. He has become the most

depressed, distrustful sad person I know. But he swears that Jesus

saved his life and his family. Even this long after I've left 12 step,

he is still praying for me to return and name his god as my HP while

I'm at it.

This is a cult thing. What's particularly dangerous to the rest of the

world is that they don't lock themselves away in their little compounds

in the mountains ala branch dividians etc. They are sent forth to

spread the word!

Ironically, (though I have to take my brother's inventory to tell you

this), he still comes to Vegas regularly to drink, cheat on his wife

and gamble, justifying it with " I'm on vacation, at least I'm not doing

it at home anymore and screwing up my life. Now when he's home, he

ignores his family by hiding behind a screen name in numerous chat

rooms. Anonymity is expanding! Were he 12-stepping, he would add " but

relapse is normal "

He has labeled me a " them " and won't be happy till I relent. I of

course would like to respect his religious beliefs, but he makes it

very difficult when he sends me nightly " jesus loves you " emails. He

has no respect for my lack of religious beliefs. Maybe I should just

let it go.

>

> ______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

that must be hard having a brother like that. i had an aunt who was a

nut, sadly no one knows what became of her. when i was a kid she took

me aside and in a hsuh tone (as if she had a secret she wanted to tell

me) she told me of the apolcolapse as told in the bible and how when it

arrives, only the belivers like her and I (her assumption/projection)

would be saved. she was a fantaical nut, but she also was a ill and

desperate woman. a few years later her husband divoirced her and she

went her own way. no one in family has heard a peep from her in over a

decade. i fear she succumbed to mental illness.

i ahve never felt an attraction to the spirtualy righteous folks who

seek to pass teh Word onto those they see as spirtual slackers, even as

a child i knew they were self serving hipocrates, more interested in

thier own appearances.

jackandj-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8372

> It's so sad! My brother became a " Jews for Jesus " messianic jew, and I

> have the same problem with him. He won't discuss anything without

> filtering it thru the " gospel " of his religion. He has become the most

> depressed, distrustful sad person I know. But he swears that Jesus

> saved his life and his family. Even this long after I've left 12

step,

> he is still praying for me to return and name his god as my HP while

> I'm at it.

>

> This is a cult thing. What's particularly dangerous to the rest of

the

> world is that they don't lock themselves away in their little

compounds

> in the mountains ala branch dividians etc. They are sent forth to

> spread the word!

>

> Ironically, (though I have to take my brother's inventory to tell you

> this), he still comes to Vegas regularly to drink, cheat on his wife

> and gamble, justifying it with " I'm on vacation, at least I'm not

doing

> it at home anymore and screwing up my life. Now when he's home, he

> ignores his family by hiding behind a screen name in numerous chat

> rooms. Anonymity is expanding! Were he 12-stepping, he would add " but

> relapse is normal "

>

> He has labeled me a " them " and won't be happy till I relent. I of

> course would like to respect his religious beliefs, but he makes it

> very difficult when he sends me nightly " jesus loves you " emails. He

> has no respect for my lack of religious beliefs. Maybe I should just

> let it go.

> >

> > ______________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

that must be hard having a brother like that. i had an aunt who was a

nut, sadly no one knows what became of her. when i was a kid she took

me aside and in a hsuh tone (as if she had a secret she wanted to tell

me) she told me of the apolcolapse as told in the bible and how when it

arrives, only the belivers like her and I (her assumption/projection)

would be saved. she was a fantaical nut, but she also was a ill and

desperate woman. a few years later her husband divoirced her and she

went her own way. no one in family has heard a peep from her in over a

decade. i fear she succumbed to mental illness.

i ahve never felt an attraction to the spirtualy righteous folks who

seek to pass teh Word onto those they see as spirtual slackers, even as

a child i knew they were self serving hipocrates, more interested in

thier own appearances.

jackandj-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8372

> It's so sad! My brother became a " Jews for Jesus " messianic jew, and I

> have the same problem with him. He won't discuss anything without

> filtering it thru the " gospel " of his religion. He has become the most

> depressed, distrustful sad person I know. But he swears that Jesus

> saved his life and his family. Even this long after I've left 12

step,

> he is still praying for me to return and name his god as my HP while

> I'm at it.

>

> This is a cult thing. What's particularly dangerous to the rest of

the

> world is that they don't lock themselves away in their little

compounds

> in the mountains ala branch dividians etc. They are sent forth to

> spread the word!

>

> Ironically, (though I have to take my brother's inventory to tell you

> this), he still comes to Vegas regularly to drink, cheat on his wife

> and gamble, justifying it with " I'm on vacation, at least I'm not

doing

> it at home anymore and screwing up my life. Now when he's home, he

> ignores his family by hiding behind a screen name in numerous chat

> rooms. Anonymity is expanding! Were he 12-stepping, he would add " but

> relapse is normal "

>

> He has labeled me a " them " and won't be happy till I relent. I of

> course would like to respect his religious beliefs, but he makes it

> very difficult when he sends me nightly " jesus loves you " emails. He

> has no respect for my lack of religious beliefs. Maybe I should just

> let it go.

> >

> > ______________________________________________________

>