Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 Great post Bjorn, I left only the final 3 paragraphs for quoting. When Apple describes her role in her family it is so familiar to me; I go through the drama over and over of wrestling myself away from the role of scapegoat, only to find myself drawn again and again into that role. If I have an addiction I would say it is an addiction to being a scapegoat. A scape-goat of many colors, however. Because sometimes I am a helper, a positive role, but if I am praised for that help I feel guilty about it. And I am proud of that guilt. Self- abasement is a sign of moral strength, don't ya know. " It's a dirty job but someone has to do it...why not me? Oh no I was only going to take a vacation in Acapulco, it can wait. " Since a scapegoat is valuable to those around him or her (as you said, the scapegoat controls the well-being of those around him or her), it is a 2-way dynamic. I'm drawn to that old role, and others see that quality in me and are drawn to it. Unless they have become enlightened and want to avoid re-creating old roles. I long to be enlightened in such a way! and I am working toward it. But it IS work. Anyone ever heard of a sin-eater? I read about it in a book by O', he wrote a series of fictional (but historically pretty accurate) books about the British Navy in the 18th century. It's similar to a scapegoat, in fact I understand it better now because of what I've read here today. I think I'm actually doing some SMART work here. (SMART is an AA alternative that deals with underlying emotional issues in addiction/dependence.) I'll use this opportunity to make a blanket apology for what I perceive in myself as confrontational behavior on the list. I think I take it out on the mailing list at times. But I can't think of people on this list as just letters on the screen, and so I feel guilty. Judith, telling you more than you wanted to know On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:43:06 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Herring wrote: > In ancient times people believed that sins had separate lives, and therefore the only way to get rid of them was to attach them to others. Therefore the goat was touched, and all the peoples sins floated over to the goat. They had to drive the goat away into the wilderness, otherwise the sins would float back into the persons who got in contact with the goat. > > Does this mechanism work today? Yes it does! If someone is pointed out as the cause of all trouble, this person will be isolated from earlier friends and acquaintances. As if only touching him will contaminate you. > > Therefore we have developed certain professionals like psychologists and psychiatrists who get paid for getting in contact with the scapegoats of this world, like alcoholics and drug addicts. They are supposed, through a special insight or training, to manage this contact without getting contaminated. > > So, while we are laughing at the enormous naivety of people from ancient times, we should only look at ourselves, and then the grin will hopefully stiffen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 Hello Judith. Glad you could use it, but aren't you overdoing your role. You said: > I'll use this opportunity to make a blanket apology > for what I perceive in myself as confrontational behavior on the list. I > think I take it out on the mailing list at times. But I can't think of > people on this list as just letters on the screen, and so I feel guilty. > I'll have to disappoint you on this. I've always liked your postings on/to the list. You're making me chuckle, guilty on what? Being a sensible person?? Bjørn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:55:40 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Herring wrote: > Hello Judith. > Glad you could use it, but aren't you overdoing your role. hee hee, that's it in a nutshell Bjorn guess I shouldn't laugh about it, but it beats crying about it. > I'll have to disappoint you on this. I've always liked your postings on/to the list. You're making me chuckle, guilty on what? Being a sensible person??> Well thank you. I guess I worry about using this mailing list as a support group. But I worry, feel guilty, all the time--it's like a constant in my emotional makeup. In fact you could say I'm emotionally stable in that way. Judith on a Monday ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:55:40 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Herring wrote: > Hello Judith. > Glad you could use it, but aren't you overdoing your role. hee hee, that's it in a nutshell Bjorn guess I shouldn't laugh about it, but it beats crying about it. > I'll have to disappoint you on this. I've always liked your postings on/to the list. You're making me chuckle, guilty on what? Being a sensible person??> Well thank you. I guess I worry about using this mailing list as a support group. But I worry, feel guilty, all the time--it's like a constant in my emotional makeup. In fact you could say I'm emotionally stable in that way. Judith on a Monday ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 Sorry. If that was a provocation, how do I make a compliment? Bjørn Judith Stillwater wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:50:26 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Herring wrote: > I can do worse than before. Actually I think you are one of the most courageous persons on this list. At all!! Beat that!> well now you are just deliberately provoking me thanks for making me smile--Judith ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Onvia.com. Work. Wisely.] > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 1999 Report Share Posted September 22, 1999 In a message dated 9/22/99 12:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Herring@... writes: > This is getting more and more complicated as I was just teasing you too. > > A good example of a case where we are in agreement but communicating > beside. > Therefore I must apologize that I made you feel compelled to apologize. > This should straighten things out! Otherwise I apologize. > Have you folks ever heard of smileys? ( - : ( - : ( - : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 1999 Report Share Posted September 22, 1999 In a message dated 9/22/99 12:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Herring@... writes: > This is getting more and more complicated as I was just teasing you too. > > A good example of a case where we are in agreement but communicating > beside. > Therefore I must apologize that I made you feel compelled to apologize. > This should straighten things out! Otherwise I apologize. > Have you folks ever heard of smileys? ( - : ( - : ( - : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 1999 Report Share Posted September 22, 1999 Hello Judith. This is getting more and more complicated as I was just teasing you too. A good example of a case where we are in agreement but communicating beside. Therefore I must apologize that I made you feel compelled to apologize. This should straighten things out! Otherwise I apologize. Bjørn Judith Stillwater wrote: > > No Bjorn, I apologize--I was just teasing you. I meant it to be in fun but it doesn't work so well in print. My little emoticon was intended to be a wink and a smile. I'm sorry, I truly felt very complimented by what you said. Judith On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:45:16 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Herring wrote: > Sorry. > > If that was a provocation, how do I make a compliment? > > Bjørn ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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