Re: Birth control/ V V/ & Breast cancer too.

[Guest guest]

the androgenic content comes from the progestins, actually. they can

have an androgenic effect in the body, partially because many of them

are derived from testosterone. this page

http://www.uptodate.com/html/tes/apr_02/topics/15188P2.htm discusses

some of the chemical activity and the progression of the first,

second, and third generation progestins.

as far as the hrt, however, there is evidence that estrogen alone

isn't always a good thing, as it can increase ovarian cancer risks as

well (one would presume for women who have had partial hysterectomies,

since they're not supposed to prescribe estrogen only for women

with a uterus)... here's one article that mentions it:

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1825.51120 That being said, I

know that there are a number of potential issues about progestins.

That brings me to my current dilema of whether or not I want to keep

taking the pill. We already use condoms, but on their own (without a

spermicide, because I'm very sensitive to nonoxyl-9) but their

efficacy rate isn't enough to ease my mind. An IUD is not an option,

because I already have bad enough cramps. A diaphragm is a pain and

uses spermicide to make it as " effective " (80%, ha!) as it is. And

most of the rest of the forms of contraception are hormonal.

Abstinence isn't the preferred option in a marriage, and we do

eventually want kids. I'm curious about the NuvaRing, though. It's

still a hormonal option, but it's not thought to be absorbed

systemically. It is already in the area however, so I don't know. If

this turns out to be true for a number of people (specifically,

myself), then that leaves us back without a number of options. If

anyone has any suggestions feel free to share, but honestly, I don't

look forward to going back to making sure there's no genital contact

without a condom at all, having even worse cramps (UGH!), having a

longer and heavier period, and not knowing _exactly_ when it's going

to start.... the only thing that eases my mind a bit is knowing that

I'm already on a pill that has low androgenic, progestestational, and

estrogenic properties. Damn it being triphasic so I can't skip my

period entirely! :-)

Sorry to ramble so much... :-)

> Hi and all, ; )

>

> Thanks so much for sending on that article with the possible link

between Birth control pills and Vulvodynia, or vestibulitis.

>

>

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2 & cid=571 & ncid=751 & e=1 & u=/nm/2002

0807/hl_nm/sex_women_dc_1

>

> I've been saying that for years on this list as a possible cause.

<smile> and from what I've come up over and over in a lot of the

research is that it's no doubt the Progesterone content (progestin)

and most Birth Control (BC ) pills are made up of P.

>

> As you mentioned, this was a direct quote.

>

> " More specifically, pills that contained higher amounts of the sex

hormones androgen and progestin and a low amount of estrogen were more

likely than other pills to be linked to vulvar vestibulitis. " (I'm

not even aware of 'any' with an androgen content?)

>

> Once again there's that lack of Estrogen and too much Progesterone.

It's also why the Estrace applied directly on top can help some as it

did me. Although I do know more and more BC's are finally adding the

E just for that reason. Basically what happens is that the P

'blocks' the E. ''receptors,''. So technically the body is

constantly in a pregnancy state, for many women on them long term;

it's the majority of their lives when you think of it.

>

> They're producing Estrogen but the E ''receptors'' are 'blocked' by

the P.

> But other things can block those receptors as well, such as Soy and

this might surprise some but Yeast does as well, and guess what? Yeast

loves Progesterone.

>

> Another connection with Birth control pills is a newer study out

showing a rise in Breast cancer on Birth control pills as well. Check

out this link from the Fed. of European Cancer Soc.

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020326073536.htm

>

> I remember thinking a long time ago, that there would be an eventual

big rise in Breast cancer because of them. And to me the bottom

line is for the same reason... It's the Progesterone/progestins

content of the Birth control pills (or in HRT) again blocking the

Estrogen.

>

> Which also agrees with this latest study of HRT (a few weeks ago)

and the withdrawal end of the ''combined'' portion that proved it was

the Progestins in PREMPRO... (Premarin & Provera <-- is the progestin

part)..... that caused the big increase in Breast cancer, as did a

huge study (47,000 women) in early 2000 by the Nat'l Cancer Inst.

proving it was the Progestin (Provera) back then, that caused the

increase up to 35-40% with Breast cancer.

>

> The Estrogen alone arm of this latest study IS still continuing as

it showed NO increase at all so far. Of course the media sure didn't

print much about that part of it continuing but it's true. And

subtlely or blatently, poor ol' Estrogen got the blame once again in

almost all the media. Although I definitely don't like the fact

that it's Premarin and only wish it were the natural bio-identical

Estradiol as in Estrace. *sigh*

>

> But they absolutely KNOW it was the progestin content in both of

these large studies and knew it with many other smaller studies as

well and why they even continued it as long as they did is a probable

cause for a law suit to me!!! Just totally unjustified and

unforgiveable to even start that latest study to me! . I must have 8

or 9 previous studies that stated the same results from a few years

ago with P. being the cause for an increase in Breast Cancer.

*huge sigh*

>

> I'll tell you if it were me and I had Breast cancer and was on

Prempro or the BC's? I'd be raising holy hell you can bet me! I'm

definitely not blaming the doctors in this, but the Drug companies!!

Whether Prempro or the Birthcontrol pills, both have the Progestins...

and 'that' is the culprit in all of this, whether it's Vulvodynia, or

Breast cancer, and not the estrogen. By the way I don't mean 'all'

Vulvodynia, is caused by that, of course not, but I can see it as one

of the major contributing factors.

>

> I just don't like Progesterone at all and scares me personally. And

yes, I do know there is the more natural Progesterone as well as the

progestins, but from what " I've' read with scientific studies they

still react identically the same within the body . Sorry for the

ramble once again and I'm off the soap box 'for now'. LOL Just my

two cents worth, and 'my' thoughts on it.

>

> Dee~ ; )

[Guest guest]

I missed that article on the bc pills...so you are saying that the pill having extra estrogen is causing the pain? So I could stop the pill and may haev less chronic pain? I want to make sure I understand. Thanks!

M Fields wrote:

Just to add my recent experience to the birth control discussion. I recently decided to try the bc pill again. Well it was a big failure. (but in some ways very informative). I tried Ovcon 35 which has the highest estrogen / progestin ratio. When I started taking it I immediately started having a terrible IBS flare. I slept poorly and generally felt terrible. My vulvar area also started to feel irritated. After about 6 days I gave up and stopped the pills. It has taken me over a week for my intestines to recover. I am pretty much back to normal now and sex is enjoyable again and I can go out and eat without having to run for the nearest bathroom.

We're sticking with the non latext condoms without spermicide. But of course I am 43 and my fertility is down already. Not sure what I would have done if I had realized the possible problems bc pills were causing me for the last 20 years.

Marilyn A.

Birth control/ V V/ & Breast cancer too.

Hi and all, ; )

Thanks so much for sending on that article with the possible link between Birth control pills and Vulvodynia, or vestibulitis.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2 & cid=571 & ncid=751 & e=1 & u=/nm/20020807/hl_nm/sex_women_dc_1

I've been saying that for years on this list as a possible cause. <smile> and from what I've come up over and over in a lot of the research is that it's no doubt the Progesterone content (progestin) and most Birth Control (BC ) pills are made up of P.

As you mentioned, this was a direct quote.

" More specifically, pills that contained higher amounts of the sex hormones androgen and progestin and a low amount of estrogen were more likely than other pills to be linked to vulvar vestibulitis. " (I'm not even aware of 'any' with an androgen content?)

Once again there's that lack of Estrogen and too much Progesterone. It's also why the Estrace applied directly on top can help some as it did me. Although I do know more and more BC's are finally adding the E just for that reason. Basically what happens is that the P 'blocks' the E. ''receptors,''. So technically the body is constantly in a pregnancy state, for many women on them long term; it's the majority of their lives when you think of it.

They're producing Estrogen but the E ''receptors'' are 'blocked' by the P.

But other things can block those receptors as well, such as Soy and this might surprise some but Yeast does as well, and guess what? Yeast loves Progesterone.

Another connection with Birth control pills is a newer study out showing a rise in Breast cancer on Birth control pills as well. Check out this link from the Fed. of European Cancer Soc.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020326073536.htm

I remember thinking a long time ago, that there would be an eventual big rise in Breast cancer because of them. And to me the bottom line is for the same reason... It's the Progesterone/progestins content of the Birth control pills (or in HRT) again blocking the Estrogen.

Which also agrees with this latest study of HRT (a few weeks ago) and the withdrawal end of the ''combined'' portion that proved it was the Progestins in PREMPRO... (Premarin & Provera <-- is the progestin part)..... that caused the big increase in Breast cancer, as did a huge study (47,000 women) in early 2000 by the Nat'l Cancer Inst. proving it was the Progestin (Provera) back then, that caused the increase up to 35-40% with Breast cancer.

The Estrogen alone arm of this latest study IS still continuing as it showed NO increase at all so far. Of course the media sure didn't print much about that part of it continuing but it's true. And subtlely or blatently, poor ol' Estrogen got the blame once again in almost all the media. Although I definitely don't like the fact that it's Premarin and only wish it were the natural bio-identical Estradiol as in Estrace. *sigh*

But they absolutely KNOW it was the progestin content in both of these large studies and knew it with many other smaller studies as well and why they even continued it as long as they did is a probable cause for a law suit to me!!! Just totally unjustified and unforgiveable to even start that latest study to me! . I must have 8 or 9 previous studies that stated the same results from a few years ago with P. being the cause for an increase in Breast Cancer. *huge sigh*

I'll tell you if it were me and I had Breast cancer and was on Prempro or the BC's? I'd be raising holy hell you can bet me! I'm definitely not blaming the doctors in this, but the Drug companies!! Whether Prempro or the Birthcontrol pills, both have the Progestins... and 'that' is the culprit in all of this, whether it's Vulvodynia, or Breast cancer, and not the estrogen. By the way I don't mean 'all' Vulvodynia, is caused by that, of course not, but I can see it as one of the major contributing factors.

I just don't like Progesterone at all and scares me personally. And yes, I do know there is the more natural Progesterone as well as the progestins, but from what "I've' read with scientific studies they still react identically the same within the body . Sorry for the ramble once again and I'm off the soap box 'for now'. LOL Just my two cents worth, and 'my' thoughts on it.

Dee~ ; )

*****END OF MESSAGE*****-------------------------------------------------Yahoo members can click on:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisordersOn the left side is a listing including bookmarks andFiles . If you click on those you will find much additional information posted by our members.To post message: VulvarDisorders To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner *****

[Guest guest]

I missed that article on the bc pills...so you are saying that the pill having extra estrogen is causing the pain? So I could stop the pill and may haev less chronic pain? I want to make sure I understand. Thanks!

M Fields wrote:

Just to add my recent experience to the birth control discussion. I recently decided to try the bc pill again. Well it was a big failure. (but in some ways very informative). I tried Ovcon 35 which has the highest estrogen / progestin ratio. When I started taking it I immediately started having a terrible IBS flare. I slept poorly and generally felt terrible. My vulvar area also started to feel irritated. After about 6 days I gave up and stopped the pills. It has taken me over a week for my intestines to recover. I am pretty much back to normal now and sex is enjoyable again and I can go out and eat without having to run for the nearest bathroom.

We're sticking with the non latext condoms without spermicide. But of course I am 43 and my fertility is down already. Not sure what I would have done if I had realized the possible problems bc pills were causing me for the last 20 years.

Marilyn A.

Birth control/ V V/ & Breast cancer too.

Hi and all, ; )

Thanks so much for sending on that article with the possible link between Birth control pills and Vulvodynia, or vestibulitis.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2 & cid=571 & ncid=751 & e=1 & u=/nm/20020807/hl_nm/sex_women_dc_1

I've been saying that for years on this list as a possible cause. <smile> and from what I've come up over and over in a lot of the research is that it's no doubt the Progesterone content (progestin) and most Birth Control (BC ) pills are made up of P.

As you mentioned, this was a direct quote.

" More specifically, pills that contained higher amounts of the sex hormones androgen and progestin and a low amount of estrogen were more likely than other pills to be linked to vulvar vestibulitis. " (I'm not even aware of 'any' with an androgen content?)

Once again there's that lack of Estrogen and too much Progesterone. It's also why the Estrace applied directly on top can help some as it did me. Although I do know more and more BC's are finally adding the E just for that reason. Basically what happens is that the P 'blocks' the E. ''receptors,''. So technically the body is constantly in a pregnancy state, for many women on them long term; it's the majority of their lives when you think of it.

They're producing Estrogen but the E ''receptors'' are 'blocked' by the P.

But other things can block those receptors as well, such as Soy and this might surprise some but Yeast does as well, and guess what? Yeast loves Progesterone.

Another connection with Birth control pills is a newer study out showing a rise in Breast cancer on Birth control pills as well. Check out this link from the Fed. of European Cancer Soc.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020326073536.htm

I remember thinking a long time ago, that there would be an eventual big rise in Breast cancer because of them. And to me the bottom line is for the same reason... It's the Progesterone/progestins content of the Birth control pills (or in HRT) again blocking the Estrogen.

Which also agrees with this latest study of HRT (a few weeks ago) and the withdrawal end of the ''combined'' portion that proved it was the Progestins in PREMPRO... (Premarin & Provera <-- is the progestin part)..... that caused the big increase in Breast cancer, as did a huge study (47,000 women) in early 2000 by the Nat'l Cancer Inst. proving it was the Progestin (Provera) back then, that caused the increase up to 35-40% with Breast cancer.

The Estrogen alone arm of this latest study IS still continuing as it showed NO increase at all so far. Of course the media sure didn't print much about that part of it continuing but it's true. And subtlely or blatently, poor ol' Estrogen got the blame once again in almost all the media. Although I definitely don't like the fact that it's Premarin and only wish it were the natural bio-identical Estradiol as in Estrace. *sigh*

But they absolutely KNOW it was the progestin content in both of these large studies and knew it with many other smaller studies as well and why they even continued it as long as they did is a probable cause for a law suit to me!!! Just totally unjustified and unforgiveable to even start that latest study to me! . I must have 8 or 9 previous studies that stated the same results from a few years ago with P. being the cause for an increase in Breast Cancer. *huge sigh*

I'll tell you if it were me and I had Breast cancer and was on Prempro or the BC's? I'd be raising holy hell you can bet me! I'm definitely not blaming the doctors in this, but the Drug companies!! Whether Prempro or the Birthcontrol pills, both have the Progestins... and 'that' is the culprit in all of this, whether it's Vulvodynia, or Breast cancer, and not the estrogen. By the way I don't mean 'all' Vulvodynia, is caused by that, of course not, but I can see it as one of the major contributing factors.

I just don't like Progesterone at all and scares me personally. And yes, I do know there is the more natural Progesterone as well as the progestins, but from what "I've' read with scientific studies they still react identically the same within the body . Sorry for the ramble once again and I'm off the soap box 'for now'. LOL Just my two cents worth, and 'my' thoughts on it.

Dee~ ; )

*****END OF MESSAGE*****-------------------------------------------------Yahoo members can click on:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisordersOn the left side is a listing including bookmarks andFiles . If you click on those you will find much additional information posted by our members.To post message: VulvarDisorders To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner *****

[Guest guest]

No, the article does not say that. (Actually, the connection was

strongest between _low_ estrogen, high progestin pills.) But this

study does NOT prove causality. It strongly suggests a link.

Read the article for yourself:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2 & cid=571 & ncid=751 & e=1 & u=/nm/2002

0807/hl_nm/sex_women_dc_1

to understand what it's saying better as it would be long to explain

here, and re-read dee's reply to my original posting of it.

It does NOT say that stopping the pills would stop the pain. It

doesn't even address that issue. As the other person noted, it helped

them. There are other reasons to think it could help, but there is NO

GUARANTEE. I'm probably going to give it a try next month (though

I'll bet my doc doesn't agree with my decision). :-) It sucks that

leaves out so many types of birth control and we'd have to rely on a

condom, but sometimes, you gotta give things a try.

Just to add my recent experience to the birth

control discussion. I recently decided to try the bc pill again.

Well it was a big failure. (but in some ways very informative). I

tried Ovcon 35 which has the highest estrogen / progestin ratio. When

I started taking it I immediately started having a terrible IBS flare.

I slept poorly and generally felt terrible. My vulvar area also

started to feel irritated. After about 6 days I gave up and stopped

the pills. It has taken me over a week for my intestines to recover.

I am pretty much back to normal now and sex is enjoyable again and I

can go out and eat without having to run for the nearest bathroom.

We're sticking with the non latext condoms without spermicide. But of

course I am 43 and my fertility is down already. Not sure what I

would have done if I had realized the possible problems bc pills were

causing me for the last 20 years.Marilyn A. Birth control/ V V/ & Breast cancer

too.

> Hi and all, ; ) Thanks so much for sending on that article

with the possible link between Birth control pills and Vulvodynia, or

vestibulitis.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2 & cid=571 & ncid=751 & e=1 & u=/nm/2002

0807/hl_nm/sex_women_dc_1 I've been saying that for years on this list

as a possible cause. <smile> and from what I've come up over and over

in a lot of the research is that it's no doubt the Progesterone

content (progestin) and most Birth Control (BC ) pills are made up of

P. As you mentioned, this was a direct quote. " More specifically,

pills that contained higher amounts of the sex hormones androgen and

progestin and a low amount of estrogen were more likely than other

pills to be linked to vulvar vestibulitis. " (I'm not even aware of

'any' with an androgen content?) Once again there's that lack of

Estrogen and too much Progesterone. It's also why the Estrace applied

directly on top can help some as it did me. Although I do know more

and more BC's are finally adding the E just for that reason.

Basically what happens is that the P 'blocks' the E. ''receptors,''.

So technically the body is constantly in a pregnancy state, for many

women on them long term; it's the majority of their lives when you

think of it. They're producing Estrogen but the E ''receptors'' are

'blocked' by the P. But other things can block those receptors as

well, such as Soy and this might surprise some but Yeast does as well,

and guess what? Yeast loves Progesterone. Another connection with

Birth control pills is a newer study out showing a rise in Breast

cancer on Birth control pills as well. Check out this link from the

Fed. of European Cancer Soc.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020326073536.htm I

remember thinking a long time ago, that there would be an eventual big

rise in Breast cancer because of them. And to me the bottom line is

for the same reason... It's the Progesterone/progestins content of the

Birth control pills (or in HRT) again blocking the Estrogen. Which

also agrees with this latest study of HRT (a few weeks ago) and the

withdrawal end of the ''combined'' portion that proved it was the

Progestins in PREMPRO... (Premarin & Provera <-- is the progestin

part)..... that caused the big increase in Breast cancer, as did a

huge study (47,000 women) in early 2000 by the Nat'l Cancer Inst.

proving it was the Progestin (Provera) back then, that caused the

increase up to 35-40% with Breast cancer. The Estrogen alone arm of

this latest study IS still continuing as it showed NO increase at all

so far. Of course the media sure didn't print much about that part of

it continuing but it's true. And subtlely or blatently, poor ol'

Estrogen got the blame once again in almost all the media. Although

I definitely don't like the fact that it's Premarin and only wish it

were the natural bio-identical Estradiol as in Estrace. *sigh* But

they absolutely KNOW it was the progestin content in both of these

large studies and knew it with many other smaller studies as well and

why they even continued it as long as they did is a probable cause for

a law suit to me!!! Just totally unjustified and unforgiveable to

even start that latest study to me! . I must have 8 or 9 previous

studies that stated the same results from a few years ago with P.

being the cause for an increase in Breast Cancer. *huge sigh*

I'll tell you if it were me and I had Breast cancer and was on Prempro

or the BC's? I'd be raising holy hell you can bet me! I'm definitely

not blaming the doctors in this, but the Drug companies!! Whether

Prempro or the Birthcontrol pills, both have the Progestins... and

'that' is the culprit in all of this, whether it's Vulvodynia, or

Breast cancer, and not the estrogen. By the way I don't mean 'all'

Vulvodynia, is caused by that, of course not, but I can see it as one

of the major contributing factors. I just don't like Progesterone at

all and scares me personally. And yes, I do know there is the more

natural Progesterone as well as the progestins, but from what " I've'

read with scientific studies they still react identically the same

within the body . Sorry for the ramble once again and I'm off the

soap box 'for now'. LOL Just my two cents worth, and 'my' thoughts

on it. Dee~ ; )

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

> Yahoo members can click on:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

>

> On the left side is a listing including bookmarks and

> Files . If you click on those you will find much additional

> information posted by our members.

>

> To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

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