Re: NDF as a Chelator and the problem with chelation and yeast

[Guest guest]

Hi. I will do my best to amswer your question. Andy

Cutler is (as far as I am concerned) the guru on

chelation. He had commented on other chelators and to

date he has not found anything more effective than

DMSA, ALA, and DMPS when used appropiately. ALA is

given every three hours and every four hours at night.

DMPS is given every eight hours and DMSA is given

every four hours. I have seen posts by other parent

who had bad and good things to say about NDF. Andy

says it wouldn't work. I don't think he believes that

it will remove the mercury from the brain or body(?).

There were a few posts about a parent who was using it

and her son lost eye contact for awhile (maybe a

week). She posted some warnings about it. I have been

chelating my son for a year (DMSA, ALA, DMPS using

Andy's protocol) with some good progress. We have had

a rough road with the nighttime dosing and yeasts and

bacteria. All this was addressable and he is doing

well. I don't know if NDF works but I know chelation

is working. Hope this helps. Vicky

--- smiles296@... wrote:

> Hi Listers,

> I am going to repost this with a subject heading

> because no one has responded and I am not sure if it

> is because nobody knows of this or because I didn't

> have a catchy subject! Ha ha! Anyway, I am new to

> the list and am working with a mom who tried to

> chelate her autistic son a year ago and the bacteria

> and yeast which had been controlled by the GFCF diet

> went off the charts. Her doctor advised her to stop

> chelating although we just learned through these

> lists that we weren't dosing frequent enough. Her

> doctor told her to give him DMSA at breakfast,

> lunch, and dinner. He told her to stop because he

> said with the yeast and bacteria problem the

> chelation would not work because it affected the

> yeast too much. I have heard of a chelating agent by

> bioray called NDF which guarantees not to affect the

> yeast or bacteria. Has anyone heard of this or knows

> of a way to chelate without having this problem?

>

> Sincerely,

> M. Duncan, M.S. CABA

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am currently chelating myself and twelve year old twin boys (ADD, CAPD) with

NDF with our doctor's supervision. We just started so I can't tell you how well

it's working, but we have not had any significant rise in yeast problems or bad

side effects. You can view my post on the enzymesandaustism board (post #19296)

for more information about how we are dosing and how its going.

We began the candida diet and herbal anti-fungals (olive leaf extract, GSE,

and/or oil of oregano) about a month or so before chelating and are continuing

to do so while chelating. We also just started taking Houston enzymes as tests

indicate we may have trouble digesting/utilizing proteins (many low amino acid

values in the Amino Acid Urine test from Great Plains). And I've read that the

enzymes can help destroy the yeast cells and as well as help heal the gut. We

have a few food sensitivities (milk, wheat, peanuts) so the enzymes should help

with that. We are not GFCF but have seriously reduced milk and wheat

consumption (to once or twice a week) on the candida diet.

Our doctor (she's a DO who specializes in nutritional medicine) advised other

supplements to support the liver and kidney, and lymph drainage while detoxing.

These include milk thistle, a product called Yin Essence from Metagenics, and a

homeopathic lymph remedy. We are also taking selenium, manganese, and

molybdenum trace minerals and well as your usual multi vitamin, b-complex, and

antioxidants.

So far it has been going well. We really just started but my mind feels sharper

already. My boys seem to be fighting less and smiling more. I homeschool them

and have seen small improvements in their attitude about work that requires real

focus (their main problem area). I can't attribute it directly to the yeast

eradication, enzymes, or NDF though and I don't know if it will be sustained for

a long period of time.

I opted for NDF for the reason that it doesn't extract mercury through the gut,

exacerbating the yeast problem and slowing down the healing of the gut. The gut

problem seems to be a key factor in all of this and I feel the sooner it is

addressed the sooner we will heal. I read the book " Guide To Intestinal Health

in Autism Spectrum Disorder " on the Kirkman Labs site and it pulled it all

together for me - the connection between mercury, yeast, intestinal and

metabolism problems.

Our doctor also uses another gentle chelation product called Porphyra Zyme from

Biotics Research that you may want to consider. I believe it comes in tablet

form. I don't know whether it removes mercury through the bowel or urine

though.

'Hope this helps you with your decisions.

[ ] NDF as a Chelator and the problem with chelation and

yeast

Hi Listers,

I am going to repost this with a subject heading because no one has responded

and I am not sure if it is because nobody knows of this or because I didn't have

a catchy subject! Ha ha! Anyway, I am new to the list and am working with a mom

who tried to chelate her autistic son a year ago and the bacteria and yeast

which had been controlled by the GFCF diet went off the charts. Her doctor

advised her to stop chelating although we just learned through these lists that

we weren't dosing frequent enough. Her doctor told her to give him DMSA at

breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He told her to stop because he said with the yeast

and bacteria problem the chelation would not work because it affected the yeast

too much. I have heard of a chelating agent by bioray called NDF which

guarantees not to affect the yeast or bacteria. Has anyone heard of this or

knows of a way to chelate without having this problem?

Sincerely,

M. Duncan, M.S. CABA

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for the responses so far. Does anyone know how to chelate

using the DMSA without the bad yeast and bacteria growth. Is there a

way to counteract that growth while chelating. Also since it wasn't

dosed right do you think she should try it again even if his yeast

is high?

Sincerely,

M. Duncan, M.S., CABA

[Guest guest]

At 03:26 PM 5/11/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi,

>Thanks for the responses so far. Does anyone know how to chelate

>using the DMSA without the bad yeast and bacteria growth. Is there a

>way to counteract that growth while chelating. Also since it wasn't

>dosed right do you think she should try it again even if his yeast

>is high?

>

>Sincerely,

> M. Duncan, M.S., CABA

I would suggest you go to

/messages

and search for yeast. This will give you a list of recent posts with

the word " yeast " in them. Read some. Then you can click on NEXT

link and search farther back in time.

There has been lots of informative discussion recently on this.

It seems like it is a struggle in many cases. The ideal is to

find something that WILL control the yeast while chelating, IMO.

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

>Hi Listers,

>I am going to repost this with a subject heading because no one has

responded and I am not sure if it is because nobody knows of this or

because I didn't have a catchy subject! Ha ha! Anyway, I am new to the list

and am working with a mom who tried to chelate her autistic son a year ago

and the bacteria and yeast which had been controlled by the GFCF diet went

off the charts. Her doctor advised her to stop chelating although we just

learned through these lists that we weren't dosing frequent enough. Her

doctor told her to give him DMSA at breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He told

her to stop because he said with the yeast and bacteria problem the

chelation would not work because it affected the yeast too much. I have

heard of a chelating agent by bioray called NDF which guarantees not to

affect the yeast or bacteria. Has anyone heard of this or knows of a way to

chelate without having this problem?

>

>Sincerely,

> M. Duncan, M.S. CABA

I would suggest you go to

/messages

and search for yeast. This will give you a list of recent posts with

the word " yeast " in them. Read some. Then you can click on NEXT

link and search farther back in time. Repeat for " NDF " .

By the way, I like your " catchy subject " theory, but in my case

that is not why! LOL. I have not answered mail since your first

post (I think!) Watch out though, if you post something too

cathcy in the title but it doesn't match the content then people

will be disappointed LOL.

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

NDF isn't a chelating agent which is why it doesn't affect yeast and

bacteria.

To miminize these problems you need to chelate properly on an every

3-4 hour schedule with a reasonable dose. Also you can simply assume

yeast will try to take off and also give anti-yeast stuff during

chelation.

A proper chelation protocol is given in the files section of this

listserver's website. Taking DMSA with meals is NOT a proper protocol

and is essentially guaranteed to cause severe problems even in people

who do quite well on proper chelation.

Andy . .. . . . . . .. . . . . .

> Hi Listers,

> I am going to repost this with a subject heading because no one has

responded and I am not sure if it is because nobody knows of this or

because I didn't have a catchy subject! Ha ha! Anyway, I am new to the

list and am working with a mom who tried to chelate her autistic son a

year ago and the bacteria and yeast which had been controlled by the

GFCF diet went off the charts. Her doctor advised her to stop

chelating although we just learned through these lists that we weren't

dosing frequent enough. Her doctor told her to give him DMSA at

breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He told her to stop because he said with

the yeast and bacteria problem the chelation would not work because it

affected the yeast too much. I have heard of a chelating agent by

bioray called NDF which guarantees not to affect the yeast or

bacteria. Has anyone heard of this or knows of a way to chelate

without having this problem?

>

> Sincerely,

>

[Guest guest]

For the protocol, go to

/files/Andy_protocol

for two particularly good messages on yeast, see

/message/46857 andn

/message/44424

Andy . . . . .. . . . . .. .

> Hi,

> Thanks for the responses so far. Does anyone know how to chelate

> using the DMSA without the bad yeast and bacteria growth. Is there a

> way to counteract that growth while chelating. Also since it wasn't

> dosed right do you think she should try it again even if his yeast

> is high?

>

> Sincerely,

> M. Duncan, M.S., CABA

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thanks so much for the info. I am forwarding it to the mom. She is

having problems getting on here, seems as if her family connect

doesn't recognize as being safe.... I also forwarded

her the websites about the protocol. Has this protocol been out a

while? She goes to a supposed DAN! doctor but he seems to know

nothing of this. I think the first chelation really set him back. If

the chelation didn't go right when she did it almost a year ago, how

long would it affect him? He is still losing language and certainly

not learning any new language.

I read the sites about yeast that you sent me.....his doctor also

put him on diflucan but he is up all night when he is on it and it

doesn't seem to help. Thanks again for all the wonderful information!

[Guest guest]

I thought I had read the entire Andy Index and this is news to me. I

haven't started chelating yet so this is good to know!! How far away

from a meal should we be? Meaning, how long after eating or how long

before eating should the DMSA be given? (So much for an unscheduled

summer, ha!)

Suzanne

On Saturday, May 11, 2002, at 02:29 PM, andrewhallcutler wrote:

> A proper chelation protocol is given in the files section of this

> listserver's website.  Taking DMSA with meals is NOT a proper protocol

> and is essentially guaranteed to cause severe problems even in people

> who do quite well on proper chelation.

[Guest guest]

>

> > A proper chelation protocol is given in the files section of this

> > listserver's website.  Taking DMSA with meals is NOT a proper

protocol

> > and is essentially guaranteed to cause severe problems even in

people

> > who do quite well on proper chelation.

>

>

>