Re: behaviors with seizure control

[Guest guest]

Wow, this is amazing stuff! Thanks so much for

sharing!--D

--- Tim wrote:

>

> >Weird, huh? I mean, to think anyone could " need " a

> seizure.... but I

> >guess it is a coping mechanism of sorts for the

> brain when it

> >doesn't otherwise know what to do with excess

> electrical energy and

> >can't channel it appropriately.

>

> PATTI, BRENDA, DE'ETTE & OTHERS ON THIS THREAD:

>

> The " weird " idea you have proposed has some support

> in the medical

> literature, and even in contemporary treatments.

> Glen Doman's IAHP,

> one of the most successful treatment venues for

> severely brain-

> damaged children, has an established unorthodox view

> of seizures in

> general, their origin in particular.

>

> On their website (http://www.iahp.org), you can read

> a very good

> article written by the late B. LeWinn, M.D. &

> former Medical

> Director of the IAHP, titled, " A Bill Of Particulars

> On Seizures And

> On Discontinuing Anti-convulsant Drugs " . Much of

> the " outside-the-

> box " thinking reflected in that article is based on

> an article

> appearing in the American Journal of Psychiatry,

> Volume 99, #2,

> September, 1942, by Temple Fay, M.D. & Neurosurgeon,

> who was the

> first Medical Director of the IAHP, and perhaps the

> strongest medical

> influence on young Glen Doman.

>

> The following quoted material includes most of the

> introductory

> commentary, plus other comments interspersed

> throughout, as composed

> by Mr. Doman, Dr. LeWinn, and Dr. Roselise

> Wilkinson, as well as

> passages from Dr. Fay's original 1942 article:

>

> INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY: " In the welter of

> technology which today is

> increasingly the basis for the study of human

> behavior and human

> ills, the process of simple observation has been all

> but lost. And

> yet, until recent decadesthe growth of our knowledge

> of ourselves and

> of the world around us has been almost entirely by

> means of what the

> late Odell Shepherd, Professor of English at Trinity

> College in

> Hartford, called, 'the harvest of a quiet eye'.

> Simple observation

> has been the basis for precepts and conclusions made

> by philosophers,

> mathematicians, astronomers, physicists, and

> physicians who have

> profoundly influenced our lives.

>

> This morning we shall present to you a superb

> example of the product

> of a keen eye, an attentive ear, and a sensitive

> hand, that led a

> remarkably receptive mind to exercise its

> curiousity, imagination,

> and understanding, and to express the meaning of

> such simple

> observation. We shall present, with comments, one

> of Temple Fay's

> classic papers, 'The Other Side Of A Fit'. We are

> certain that in

> the 35 years [...now 59 years...] since it was first

> published this

> will be the first time any group of people will have

> given this

> example of Dr. Fay's perception and wisdom the

> attention it deserves. "

>

> DR. FAY: " ...there are many who see no good in

> convulsive seizures,

> and view the entire episode as an unnecessary and

> horrible phenomenon.

>

> If one were to view a major convulsive seizure with

> the same

> dispassionate tolerance as one might a severe

> sneezing attack or

> period of vomiting, the ordeal, unpleasant as it

> might appear, would

> hardly be ascribed to 'evil spirits'. [...nor as an

> unnecessary and

> horrible phenomenon...] These reactions of defense

> are recognized as

> normal mechanisms of protection against irritants to

> the nose or to

> the stomach. "

>

> TRANSITIONAL COMMENTARY: " Proposing that same

> reason, tolerance, and

> understanding be similarly exercised in the matter

> of seizures... "

>

> DR. FAY: " If we are to look upon the other side of a

> fit to see its

> possible benefits, we must pose two fundmental

> questions:

>

> (1) Why has it been necessary for 'nature' to evolve

> such a violent

> mechanism?

>

> (2) What useful purpose could it have served? "

>

> TRANSITIONAL COMMENTARY: " For Fay the behavior of

> people in seizures

> has quite a different meaning from that derived by

> his

> colleagues. ...Fay appreciated the fact that the

> understanding of

> human behavior and human ills can be better

> accomplished by taking

> into account man's phylogenetic and developmental

> history. "

>

> DR. FAY: " ...Since the 'convulsive mechanism' may

> now be demonstrated

> to be present in man and throughout the animal world

> by means of

> electric shock and metrazol, it can no longer be

> considered as

> pathological. As a latent and retained 'reaction of

> defense', it may

> be potentially present throughout life without the

> need for

> expression.

>

> ...The seizure, per se, if a defense reflex, should

> be reviewed in

> the light of the early neurological history of the

> vertebrates. "

>

> ...The simple pattern of a convulsive seizure

> includes the turning of

> the head and eyes; the twisting of the trunk or

> extension of the

> back; and the repetitive flexor-extensor movements

> of the prime

> muscles of the extremities. These are all

> characteristic of the

> amphibian level of motor development.

>

> Perhaps the greatest event in the history of

> evolution was the

> emergence of the land forms from the saline

> surroundings of the

> oceans.

>

> ...Where tissues had freely obtained water, oxygen,

> salts, and

> electrolytes from the surrounding ocean, they were

> now required to

> seek oxygen from the air, salts from deposits on the

> land, and water

> from distant pools. ...When dangerous deficiencies

> arose on the

> land, protection and replenishment were assured by

> the prompt return

> to the ocean. Those forms of life that learned to

> emerge and

> then 'flip' back again evidently survived to try

> another time.

>

> ...The countless experiments over millions of years,

> as well as

> myriads of forms which failed to adjust themselves,

> are unknown to us

> today. Gradually, however, there seems to have

> evolved a 'defense'

> pattern in the nervous system which could be called

> into action when

> the vertebrate encountered improper tissue

> concentrations of water or

> oxygen, or alterations from the established

> physiochemistry of the

> oceans.

>

> ...The convulsive pattern of movements in man may

> signify an attempt

> at readjustment and 'defense' along the old and

> established rules

> when the organism is faced with profound

> physiological changes in

>

=== message truncated ===

=====

DeEtte -- Mom to (, 6, keto-kid since 1/01, med-free, seizures greatly

reduced) and (, 4), sdale, AZ

" I know God would never give me more than I can handle. . .I just wish he didn't

trust me so much. "

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Wow me too! Blair has had what I call a build up before a sz, I can

pretty much always tell when he is due to get hammered. He will

become agitated and restless. We are seeing some behaviors lately

that may be developmentally normal stuff, just delayed. We are going

to start with a behaviorist (sp?)next weeek, should be interesting if

she has anything to offer besides plain old commom sense.

Jill, Blair's mom

> Heard something interesting today from our neuro at our (almost)

annual Keto follow-up visit...... now, this is the " successful " Dr. S

from Portland, Oregon, with many, many happy Keto patients....... he

said that often, when they get seizures under control (I don't know

if he meant Keto kids or those on meds, too) , they'll see

irritability and various crabby, acting out type behaviors,

more " stimming " , etc. Almost as if the seizures had been a " release "

and now the brain doesn't know what to do with all of it's pent up

energy?? I had been telling him that although we are very pleased

with Katera's seizure control, she seems MUCH more irritable.....

lots of crabby, cranky days and lots of finger chewing and

other " irritablility " type things. (She is very delayed and not able

to tell us how she's feeling in any other way). I was surprized to

hear he thought this was common in kids with good seizure control.

Anyone else been told this by their doctors? She definitely has

sensory intregration issues but it's a lot worse in the past couple

of months.

>

> We are also being sent in to the hospital in the morning for a

renal ultrasound, urine and blood draws..... Katera has had two

episodes in the past two months of extreme crying/screaming (the

worst I've ever seen in a kid) that has had a very sudden onset and

lasted several hours without any reason that we can figure out. He

just wants to rule out stones. She is on such a low ratio (2.65:1)

that he thinks it's unlikely but you never know.

>

> We were pleased to find out that she had grown about 5 cms in

height in the past year and as an added bonus, she seems to have had

an increase of one cm in head circumference..... not bad for a kid

with microcephaly who hadn't had ANY head growth for a full year and

a half prior to starting the diet..... we had given up

measuring....too depressing!

>

> Patti, mom to Katera, age 5 (partial ACC, micro, global delays)

Keto since 10-10-2000...... med free.

[Guest guest]

Wow me too! Blair has had what I call a build up before a sz, I can

pretty much always tell when he is due to get hammered. He will

become agitated and restless. We are seeing some behaviors lately

that may be developmentally normal stuff, just delayed. We are going

to start with a behaviorist (sp?)next weeek, should be interesting if

she has anything to offer besides plain old commom sense.

Jill, Blair's mom

> Heard something interesting today from our neuro at our (almost)

annual Keto follow-up visit...... now, this is the " successful " Dr. S

from Portland, Oregon, with many, many happy Keto patients....... he

said that often, when they get seizures under control (I don't know

if he meant Keto kids or those on meds, too) , they'll see

irritability and various crabby, acting out type behaviors,

more " stimming " , etc. Almost as if the seizures had been a " release "

and now the brain doesn't know what to do with all of it's pent up

energy?? I had been telling him that although we are very pleased

with Katera's seizure control, she seems MUCH more irritable.....

lots of crabby, cranky days and lots of finger chewing and

other " irritablility " type things. (She is very delayed and not able

to tell us how she's feeling in any other way). I was surprized to

hear he thought this was common in kids with good seizure control.

Anyone else been told this by their doctors? She definitely has

sensory intregration issues but it's a lot worse in the past couple

of months.

>

> We are also being sent in to the hospital in the morning for a

renal ultrasound, urine and blood draws..... Katera has had two

episodes in the past two months of extreme crying/screaming (the

worst I've ever seen in a kid) that has had a very sudden onset and

lasted several hours without any reason that we can figure out. He

just wants to rule out stones. She is on such a low ratio (2.65:1)

that he thinks it's unlikely but you never know.

>

> We were pleased to find out that she had grown about 5 cms in

height in the past year and as an added bonus, she seems to have had

an increase of one cm in head circumference..... not bad for a kid

with microcephaly who hadn't had ANY head growth for a full year and

a half prior to starting the diet..... we had given up

measuring....too depressing!

>

> Patti, mom to Katera, age 5 (partial ACC, micro, global delays)

Keto since 10-10-2000...... med free.