Forgiveness, Acceptance and the Issue of Social Responsibility

September 30, 1999

Rough draft... comments?

Apple

forgive, Forgive.... FORGIVE everyone..... and be free, Free, FREE of

resentment. God, not we, is in charge. Does this popular AA chant

sound familiar?

I will start out with a case scenario:

Kanka, a six year old girl from New Jersey was brutally raped and

murdered by ??, a convicted child molester who was released from prison

after serving ?? years for a prior case of child molestation. Mrs.

Kanka, little 's mother, outraged and rightfully so, not only

pursued the conviction of .... but has become active in getting 's

Law passed, a controversial, yet needed law which would make the names

and addresses of child molesters public, so that parents could learn if

such " former " criminals reside in their neighborhoods, since the

relapse rate for child molesters is so high.

Luckily for us, Mrs. Kanka was an " earth person " or " normie " , because

if she were not, we may not have 's Law today. Let me explain:

Mrs. Kanka's little girl, died a horrible death. A grizzly rape and

murder which was completely undeserved. Her young life was stolen from

her, through a brutal crime. Mrs. Kanka's grief is understandable, her

anger justifiable.

Her strong feelings motivated her to notify the police and subsequently

to effect the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator, sending him to

prison so the safety of the public could be assured, and justice could

be served.

Furthermore, Mrs. Kanka channeled her justifiable anger to effect

positive social change by working for the passing of 's Law, to

help protect other children and parents from such horrors.

But what would have happened if Mrs. Kanka had been an AA member?

1. Would Mrs. Kanka have been labeled as sick for holding a resentment

too long?

2. Would she have been told to " look at her part " ?

Why wasn't she with her daughter? Why was her daughter playing

alone? Did she dress her six year old daughter too sexy? Did little

ask for it? Was little a tease who got what was coming to

her?

3. The question of her " irresponsible mothering " would have come up in

the quest for " her part " .

4. Would Mrs. Kanka have been instructed by her fellow AAs to prepare

caffeinated beverages for her peers in order to get out of herself?

5. Would she have been told to pray for the murderer until her

resentment goes away?

6. Would she have been pressured to forgive?

7. Would her AA peers gently remind her that she's " powerless " over

the situation, that she should " practice acceptance " , and that God will

take care of it all if she hits her knees every night and prays.

8. Would she have been told that the murderer is just a sick child of

God who needs to be treated with the same gentleness and care as an ill

person who has pneumonia? (see page 898 of the Big Book)

9. Would she have tossed and turned for months and years afterwards,

wondering, how she had disobeyed " God's Will " and invited this tragedy

upon herself?

10. Would she have had to wrestle with the idea that God would protect

other children if she only prayed rightly, rather than pursuing the

passing of a law?

11. Would her pursuit of the passing of 's Law be seen by her

peers as meddling with the affairs of God?

12. Would Mrs. Kanka have been shamed by her AA group, because her

visible display of emotions reminded the child molesters in her AA

home group of their own past crimes, and made them feel guilty for it.

(shame Mrs. Kanka!)

13. Would Mrs. Kanka's sponsor have told her to read page 449 of the

Big Book? The bit about " acceptance is the answer to all my problems

today. "

14. Would Mrs. Kanka's strong emotions have been labeled dangerous --

a sign of potential relapse, possibly causing her fellow AAs to pull

away from her because it's disruptive to their serenity to be in the

company of a highly emotionally charged person?

15. Would Mrs. Kanka's grieving process be curtailed with group

pressure to " get out of herself " and help newcomers... the ones who are

REALLY suffering?

My answer, is I hope like hell not! I hope that we could answer NO to

all of the above questions! But sadly, I'm not sure that we could. I

have heard too many cases where the victim was made to suffer further

in the rooms of AA, and this disgusts me to no end.

I have heard too many stories of malicious individuals who are let off

the hook, so to speak, for their actions, however heinous, provided

that they admit to themselves, God and to another person the exact

nature of their wrongs. Reparations to the victim or justice served?

None!

Sometimes victims project feelings of guilt and shame onto criminals to

comfort themselves and to try to cope psychologically.

" I know what guilt feels like. I'm sure God's punishing him with

guilt! " they may say.

Let's test the accuracy of that assumption:

The typical psychological profile of sociopaths and psychopaths show

1) little affect (shallowness of feeling)

2) a lack of compassion/guilt

Here are some excellent links for learning more about these antisocial

personality disorders which characterize many (but not all) criminals:

So premature forgiveness, can and does, in many cases, leave the crime

unaddressed, and the criminal walking around, without the internal

reminder of guilt or the external reminder of justice. Something is

missing here.

Furthermore,what are the chances that the sociopath will reviolate

under these conditions? High.

What are the chances that he will reviolate if we pray rightly? (drum

roll...............) High.

In such cases, taking action by " Turning it over " is taking no action.

It is teaching criminals that they can get away with what they've done

without consequences, that their victims are the sick ones for having

anger or resentment.

This attitude does not make me feel safe in this world. I do not want

to see our criminal justice system replaced with a judge who simply

says " The people of this state find you guilty as charged, but we

forgive you, so go on your merry way and we'll try not to be angry " .

" Duh.... okay judge.... " [slash slash] [murder murder] [rape rape]

" Duh... what was YOUR part little miss victim? You owe me an amends....

ha ha ha ha ha ha " [slash slash] [murder murder] [rape rape]

Nobody is helped by blind forgiveness and blanket acceptance of evil!

Not the victim, not the perpetrator and not the community!

And as for acceptance being the answer to all our problems today?

Baloney! We could thank the fathers of our country who fought the

British for our independence that they did not possess such a world

view. We can thank Abraham Lincoln and Luther King for being

proactive rather than passively accepting of world conditions.

Here's a little quote on acceptance from " Your Erroneous Zones " by Dr.

Wayne Dyer:

Progress, yours personally and the world's depends on unreasonable men,

rather than people who adapt to their society and accept whatever comes

along. Progress depends on individuals who are innovators, who reject

convention and fashion their own worlds. In order to shift from coping

to doing, you'll have to learn to resist enculturation and the many

pressures to conform. To function fully, a resistance to enculturation

is almost a given. You may be viewed by some as insubordinate, which

is the price you'll have to pay for thinking for yourself. You may be

seen as different, be labeled selfish or rebellious, incur disapproval

from many " normal " people, and at times be ostracized. Some people will

not take kindly to your resistance to norms they've adopted for

themselves. You'll hear the old argument of, " What if everybody decided

to obey only the rules they wanted to? What kind of society would we

have then? " The simple answer to this, of course is that everybody

won't! Most people's addiction to external supports and shoulds

prohibits such a stand.

What we're talking about here has nothing to do with anarchy. No one

wants to destroy society, but many of us would like to give the

individual more freedom within it, freedom from meaningless musts and

silly shoulds.

Even sensible laws and rules will not apply under every set of

circumstances. What we are striving for is choice, that is, the ability

to be free from the servant mentality of constant adherence to the

shoulds.

September 30, 1999

Another great essay Apple. Thanks again for your site.

This is a very articulate piece of writing. Rebekah

September 30, 1999

Another great essay Apple. Thanks again for your site.

This is a very articulate piece of writing. Rebekah

September 30, 1999

Apple -

" Relapse " should be " recidivism, " " grizzly " should be " grisly. "

I think this is a good essay, but could you choose a less heinous

crime? AA members will respond that they would never say such things

under these circumstances, and perhaps rightly so. The only time I

have ever seen a group struck speechless was when a man spoke of his

grief over the recent death from meningitis of his 18-month-old child.

It seemed as though everyone present realized that this was a situation

page 449 could not address, nor could any other of the slogans that

usually sprang to their lips.

It's no good attacking AA for hypothetical actions that they really

would not engage in. Would groups in your community have responded in

this manner?

appledt-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8362

> Rough draft... comments?

> Apple

>

> Forgiveness, Acceptance and the Issue of Social Responsibility

>

> forgive, Forgive.... FORGIVE everyone..... and be free, Free, FREE of

> resentment. God, not we, is in charge. Does this popular AA chant

> sound familiar?

>

> I will start out with a case scenario:

>

> Kanka, a six year old girl from New Jersey was brutally raped

and

> murdered by ??, a convicted child molester who was released from

prison

> after serving ?? years for a prior case of child molestation. Mrs.

> Kanka, little 's mother, outraged and rightfully so, not only

> pursued the conviction of .... but has become active in getting

's

> Law passed, a controversial, yet needed law which would make the names

> and addresses of child molesters public, so that parents could learn

if

> such " former " criminals reside in their neighborhoods, since the

> relapse rate for child molesters is so high.

>

> Luckily for us, Mrs. Kanka was an " earth person " or " normie " , because

> if she were not, we may not have 's Law today. Let me explain:

>

> Mrs. Kanka's little girl, died a horrible death. A grizzly rape and

> murder which was completely undeserved. Her young life was stolen

from

> her, through a brutal crime. Mrs. Kanka's grief is understandable,

her

> anger justifiable.

>

> Her strong feelings motivated her to notify the police and

subsequently

> to effect the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator, sending him to

> prison so the safety of the public could be assured, and justice could

> be served.

>

> Furthermore, Mrs. Kanka channeled her justifiable anger to effect

> positive social change by working for the passing of 's Law, to

> help protect other children and parents from such horrors.

>

> But what would have happened if Mrs. Kanka had been an AA member?

>

> 1. Would Mrs. Kanka have been labeled as sick for holding a

resentment

> too long?

> 2. Would she have been told to " look at her part " ?

> Why wasn't she with her daughter? Why was her daughter playing

> alone? Did she dress her six year old daughter too sexy? Did little

> ask for it? Was little a tease who got what was coming to

> her?

> 3. The question of her " irresponsible mothering " would have come up

in

> the quest for " her part " .

> 4. Would Mrs. Kanka have been instructed by her fellow AAs to prepare

> caffeinated beverages for her peers in order to get out of herself?

> 5. Would she have been told to pray for the murderer until her

> resentment goes away?

> 6. Would she have been pressured to forgive?

> 7. Would her AA peers gently remind her that she's " powerless " over

> the situation, that she should " practice acceptance " , and that God

will

> take care of it all if she hits her knees every night and prays.

> 8. Would she have been told that the murderer is just a sick child of

> God who needs to be treated with the same gentleness and care as an

ill

> person who has pneumonia? (see page 898 of the Big Book)

> 9. Would she have tossed and turned for months and years afterwards,

> wondering, how she had disobeyed " God's Will " and invited this tragedy

> upon herself?

> 10. Would she have had to wrestle with the idea that God would

protect

> other children if she only prayed rightly, rather than pursuing the

> passing of a law?

> 11. Would her pursuit of the passing of 's Law be seen by her

> peers as meddling with the affairs of God?

> 12. Would Mrs. Kanka have been shamed by her AA group, because her

> visible display of emotions reminded the child molesters in her AA

> home group of their own past crimes, and made them feel guilty for it.

> (shame Mrs. Kanka!)

> 13. Would Mrs. Kanka's sponsor have told her to read page 449 of the

> Big Book? The bit about " acceptance is the answer to all my problems

> today. "

> 14. Would Mrs. Kanka's strong emotions have been labeled dangerous --

> a sign of potential relapse, possibly causing her fellow AAs to pull

> away from her because it's disruptive to their serenity to be in the

> company of a highly emotionally charged person?

> 15. Would Mrs. Kanka's grieving process be curtailed with group

> pressure to " get out of herself " and help newcomers... the ones who

are

> REALLY suffering?

>

> My answer, is I hope like hell not! I hope that we could answer NO to

> all of the above questions! But sadly, I'm not sure that we could. I

> have heard too many cases where the victim was made to suffer further

> in the rooms of AA, and this disgusts me to no end.

>

> I have heard too many stories of malicious individuals who are let off

> the hook, so to speak, for their actions, however heinous, provided

> that they admit to themselves, God and to another person the exact

> nature of their wrongs. Reparations to the victim or justice served?

> None!

>

> Sometimes victims project feelings of guilt and shame onto criminals

to

> comfort themselves and to try to cope psychologically.

>

> " I know what guilt feels like. I'm sure God's punishing him with

> guilt! " they may say.

> Let's test the accuracy of that assumption:

>

> The typical psychological profile of sociopaths and psychopaths show

> 1) little affect (shallowness of feeling)

> 2) a lack of compassion/guilt

>

> Here are some excellent links for learning more about these antisocial

> personality disorders which characterize many (but not all) criminals:

>

> So premature forgiveness, can and does, in many cases, leave the crime

> unaddressed, and the criminal walking around, without the internal

> reminder of guilt or the external reminder of justice. Something is

> missing here.

>

> Furthermore,what are the chances that the sociopath will reviolate

> under these conditions? High.

> What are the chances that he will reviolate if we pray rightly? (drum

> roll...............) High.

>

> In such cases, taking action by " Turning it over " is taking no

action.

> It is teaching criminals that they can get away with what they've done

> without consequences, that their victims are the sick ones for having

> anger or resentment.

>

> This attitude does not make me feel safe in this world. I do not want

> to see our criminal justice system replaced with a judge who simply

> says " The people of this state find you guilty as charged, but we

> forgive you, so go on your merry way and we'll try not to be angry " .

>

> " Duh.... okay judge.... " [slash slash] [murder murder] [rape rape]

> " Duh... what was YOUR part little miss victim? You owe me an

amends....

> ha ha ha ha ha ha " [slash slash] [murder murder] [rape rape]

>

> Nobody is helped by blind forgiveness and blanket acceptance of evil!

> Not the victim, not the perpetrator and not the community!

>

> And as for acceptance being the answer to all our problems today?

> Baloney! We could thank the fathers of our country who fought the

> British for our independence that they did not possess such a world

> view. We can thank Abraham Lincoln and Luther King for being

> proactive rather than passively accepting of world conditions.

>

> Here's a little quote on acceptance from " Your Erroneous Zones " by Dr.

> Wayne Dyer:

>

> Progress, yours personally and the world's depends on unreasonable

men,

> rather than people who adapt to their society and accept whatever

comes

> along. Progress depends on individuals who are innovators, who reject

> convention and fashion their own worlds. In order to shift from

coping

> to doing, you'll have to learn to resist enculturation and the many

> pressures to conform. To function fully, a resistance to

enculturation

> is almost a given. You may be viewed by some as insubordinate, which

> is the price you'll have to pay for thinking for yourself. You may be

> seen as different, be labeled selfish or rebellious, incur disapproval

> from many " normal " people, and at times be ostracized. Some people

will

> not take kindly to your resistance to norms they've adopted for

> themselves. You'll hear the old argument of, " What if everybody

decided

> to obey only the rules they wanted to? What kind of society would we

> have then? " The simple answer to this, of course is that everybody

> won't! Most people's addiction to external supports and shoulds

> prohibits such a stand.

>

> What we're talking about here has nothing to do with anarchy. No one

> wants to destroy society, but many of us would like to give the

> individual more freedom within it, freedom from meaningless musts and

> silly shoulds.

>

> Even sensible laws and rules will not apply under every set of

> circumstances. What we are striving for is choice, that is, the

ability

> to be free from the servant mentality of constant adherence to the

> shoulds.

>

September 30, 1999