Re: Todays Headline Aug. 31st.

August 31, 1999

giggle

Judith

> **********************

> AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

> **********************

> Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the general

public. However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be found.

Alcoholics Anonymous has suspended the reading of Chapter 5 in meetings

until further notice, but would not offer any further comment.>

________________________________________________________________

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August 31, 1999

giggle

Judith

> **********************

> AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

> **********************

> Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the general

public. However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be found.

Alcoholics Anonymous has suspended the reading of Chapter 5 in meetings

until further notice, but would not offer any further comment.>

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

August 31, 1999

giggle

Judith

> **********************

> AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

> **********************

> Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the general

public. However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be found.

Alcoholics Anonymous has suspended the reading of Chapter 5 in meetings

until further notice, but would not offer any further comment.>

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

August 31, 1999

At 03:39 PM 31/08/99 -0700, you wrote:

>**********************

>AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

>**********************

>

>Alcoholics Anonymous long known for saving the lives of hopeless

>alcoholics has claimed yet another life in a trend that has stunned the

>twelve step community. In the past most of the fatalities that occurred

>in the meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous were due to the effects of

>alcohol and drug use. Now it seems that the meetings themsevles are

>contributing to the loss of life.

Now you've gone and done it- I'm gettimg flashbacks of meetings.

If I die of boredom mysteriously in the next few hours- sorry- yawn- oh

never mind...

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

August 31, 1999

At 03:39 PM 31/08/99 -0700, you wrote:

>**********************

>AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

>**********************

>

>Alcoholics Anonymous long known for saving the lives of hopeless

>alcoholics has claimed yet another life in a trend that has stunned the

>twelve step community. In the past most of the fatalities that occurred

>in the meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous were due to the effects of

>alcohol and drug use. Now it seems that the meetings themsevles are

>contributing to the loss of life.

Now you've gone and done it- I'm gettimg flashbacks of meetings.

If I die of boredom mysteriously in the next few hours- sorry- yawn- oh

never mind...

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

August 31, 1999

At 03:39 PM 31/08/99 -0700, you wrote:

>**********************

>AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

>**********************

>

>Alcoholics Anonymous long known for saving the lives of hopeless

>alcoholics has claimed yet another life in a trend that has stunned the

>twelve step community. In the past most of the fatalities that occurred

>in the meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous were due to the effects of

>alcohol and drug use. Now it seems that the meetings themsevles are

>contributing to the loss of life.

Now you've gone and done it- I'm gettimg flashbacks of meetings.

If I die of boredom mysteriously in the next few hours- sorry- yawn- oh

never mind...

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

August 31, 1999

At 03:39 PM 8/31/99 -0700, Hollister wrote:

>**********************

>AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

>**********************

>Yet another case of SADS(sudden alcoholic death syndrome) has been

>reported in Los Angeles area. It is the third such occurence in as many

>Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the general

>public.

I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone. CoDA,

just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

(perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans are

codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the hundreds

of other 12-step programs.

Even just the alcohol-related groups can easily cover a large segment of

the poppulation. I saw where things were out of hand nine or ten years ago

when I saw a book titled " Grandchildren of Alcoholics " which described

a 12-step group of the same name.

>However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

>strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be found.

But currently there is no cure, only daily remission contingient on

abstinence from all 12-step programs. This can ONLY be achieved through

self-direction and self-determination.

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

August 31, 1999

At 03:39 PM 8/31/99 -0700, Hollister wrote:

>**********************

>AA MEMBER BORED TO DEATH!

>**********************

>Yet another case of SADS(sudden alcoholic death syndrome) has been

>reported in Los Angeles area. It is the third such occurence in as many

>Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the general

>public.

I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone. CoDA,

just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

(perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans are

codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the hundreds

of other 12-step programs.

Even just the alcohol-related groups can easily cover a large segment of

the poppulation. I saw where things were out of hand nine or ten years ago

when I saw a book titled " Grandchildren of Alcoholics " which described

a 12-step group of the same name.

>However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

>strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be found.

But currently there is no cure, only daily remission contingient on

abstinence from all 12-step programs. This can ONLY be achieved through

self-direction and self-determination.

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

August 31, 1999

> I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone. CoDA,

just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

(perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans are

codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the hundreds

of other 12-step programs.>

If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

change?

Judith

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

September 1, 1999

j_stillwater@... writes:

> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

> change?

The figure is completely arbitrary and as far as I've ever been able to

discover, just made up out of whole cloth. Amazing how these fantasy figures

continue to stick in people's minds, isn't it? This is one con that really

does deserve Mark Twain's sarcastic remark about " lies, damned lies, and

statistics. "

When anyone quotes this to me (and have done in the past) I ask: who did the

research? What population was being studied? What was the size of the

sample, and how can we be assured that this is indeed representative of the

population? What was the methodology? (and so forth) Since none of these

questions can be answered because the figure is nothing but an number pulled

out of thin air, depending on how insistent you are, the person making this

claim can be made to look quite the fool for believing it.

Regards,

September 1, 1999

j_stillwater@... writes:

> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

> change?

The figure is completely arbitrary and as far as I've ever been able to

discover, just made up out of whole cloth. Amazing how these fantasy figures

continue to stick in people's minds, isn't it? This is one con that really

does deserve Mark Twain's sarcastic remark about " lies, damned lies, and

statistics. "

When anyone quotes this to me (and have done in the past) I ask: who did the

research? What population was being studied? What was the size of the

sample, and how can we be assured that this is indeed representative of the

population? What was the methodology? (and so forth) Since none of these

questions can be answered because the figure is nothing but an number pulled

out of thin air, depending on how insistent you are, the person making this

claim can be made to look quite the fool for believing it.

Regards,

September 1, 1999

Yeah Apple,

Isn't it a shame that humankind couldn't find some positive milieu in

which to congregate en masse instead of this hideous 12 step quagmire

that plagues our culture. I think the many people mystified by the magic

of AA would be readily surprised at the fact that there really is no

magic, other than the resumption of connectedness and socialization that

comes with group participation.

AppleDTP@... wrote:

>

> 95% of the population in CoDA eh? Grrrreeaat! I've just ordered a

> book on 12 step use and CoDA. The title is " The Twelve Steps of

> Destruction " . Don't know anything about it, just found it accidentally

> on the web, but with a title like that I had to have it.

>

> I really think that these meetings which are taking over the world, are

> a response to the utter loneliness so many of us feel in our high-tech

> world, where human interaction has been minimized thanks to the great

> inventions of man. And the price for the human interaction is

> self-labelling with the disease duJour. The history books will have

> fun with this someday I am sure. I'm just surprised that more people

> don't see the phenomenon for what it is.

> Apple

>

> > >Yet another case of SADS(sudden alcoholic death syndrome) has been

> > >reported in Los Angeles area. It is the third such occurence in as

> many

> >

> > >Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the

> general

> > >public.

> >

> > I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

> > aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone.

> CoDA,

> > just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

> > (perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans

> are

> > codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the

> hundreds

> > of other 12-step programs.

> > Even just the alcohol-related groups can easily cover a large

> segment of

> > the poppulation. I saw where things were out of hand nine or ten

> years ago

> > when I saw a book titled " Grandchildren of Alcoholics " which described

> > a 12-step group of the same name.

> >

> > >However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

> > >strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be

> found.

> >

> > But currently there is no cure, only daily remission contingient on

> > abstinence from all 12-step programs. This can ONLY be achieved

> through

> > self-direction and self-determination.

> >

> > -----

> > http://listen.to/benbradley

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

> http://clickhere./click/805

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

September 1, 1999

Yeah Apple,

Isn't it a shame that humankind couldn't find some positive milieu in

which to congregate en masse instead of this hideous 12 step quagmire

that plagues our culture. I think the many people mystified by the magic

of AA would be readily surprised at the fact that there really is no

magic, other than the resumption of connectedness and socialization that

comes with group participation.

AppleDTP@... wrote:

>

> 95% of the population in CoDA eh? Grrrreeaat! I've just ordered a

> book on 12 step use and CoDA. The title is " The Twelve Steps of

> Destruction " . Don't know anything about it, just found it accidentally

> on the web, but with a title like that I had to have it.

>

> I really think that these meetings which are taking over the world, are

> a response to the utter loneliness so many of us feel in our high-tech

> world, where human interaction has been minimized thanks to the great

> inventions of man. And the price for the human interaction is

> self-labelling with the disease duJour. The history books will have

> fun with this someday I am sure. I'm just surprised that more people

> don't see the phenomenon for what it is.

> Apple

>

> > >Yet another case of SADS(sudden alcoholic death syndrome) has been

> > >reported in Los Angeles area. It is the third such occurence in as

> many

> >

> > >Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the

> general

> > >public.

> >

> > I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

> > aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone.

> CoDA,

> > just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

> > (perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans

> are

> > codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the

> hundreds

> > of other 12-step programs.

> > Even just the alcohol-related groups can easily cover a large

> segment of

> > the poppulation. I saw where things were out of hand nine or ten

> years ago

> > when I saw a book titled " Grandchildren of Alcoholics " which described

> > a 12-step group of the same name.

> >

> > >However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

> > >strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be

> found.

> >

> > But currently there is no cure, only daily remission contingient on

> > abstinence from all 12-step programs. This can ONLY be achieved

> through

> > self-direction and self-determination.

> >

> > -----

> > http://listen.to/benbradley

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

> http://clickhere./click/805

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

September 1, 1999

Yeah Apple,

Isn't it a shame that humankind couldn't find some positive milieu in

which to congregate en masse instead of this hideous 12 step quagmire

that plagues our culture. I think the many people mystified by the magic

of AA would be readily surprised at the fact that there really is no

magic, other than the resumption of connectedness and socialization that

comes with group participation.

AppleDTP@... wrote:

>

> 95% of the population in CoDA eh? Grrrreeaat! I've just ordered a

> book on 12 step use and CoDA. The title is " The Twelve Steps of

> Destruction " . Don't know anything about it, just found it accidentally

> on the web, but with a title like that I had to have it.

>

> I really think that these meetings which are taking over the world, are

> a response to the utter loneliness so many of us feel in our high-tech

> world, where human interaction has been minimized thanks to the great

> inventions of man. And the price for the human interaction is

> self-labelling with the disease duJour. The history books will have

> fun with this someday I am sure. I'm just surprised that more people

> don't see the phenomenon for what it is.

> Apple

>

> > >Yet another case of SADS(sudden alcoholic death syndrome) has been

> > >reported in Los Angeles area. It is the third such occurence in as

> many

> >

> > >Thankfully SADS is not viral and does not pose a threat to the

> general

> > >public.

> >

> > I must strongly disagree here - with so many 12-step programs, most

> > aimed at the 'general public', there is a great danger to everyone.

> CoDA,

> > just by itself, qualifies almost everyone - someone declared years ago

> > (perhaps recuvery luminary Bradshaw) that 95% of all Americans

> are

> > codependent. For the other 5%, surely they can fit into one of the

> hundreds

> > of other 12-step programs.

> > Even just the alcohol-related groups can easily cover a large

> segment of

> > the poppulation. I saw where things were out of hand nine or ten

> years ago

> > when I saw a book titled " Grandchildren of Alcoholics " which described

> > a 12-step group of the same name.

> >

> > >However prolonged exposure to 12 Step meetings and literature is

> > >strongly discouraged by the Medical Community until a cure can be

> found.

> >

> > But currently there is no cure, only daily remission contingient on

> > abstinence from all 12-step programs. This can ONLY be achieved

> through

> > self-direction and self-determination.

> >

> > -----

> > http://listen.to/benbradley

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

> http://clickhere./click/805

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

September 1, 1999

> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

> change?

>

> Judith

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That 12th. Step sucks, doesn't it.

September 1, 1999

> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

> change?

>

> Judith

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That 12th. Step sucks, doesn't it.

September 1, 1999

> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a population

> change?

>

> Judith

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That 12th. Step sucks, doesn't it.

September 1, 1999

At 06:08 PM 01/09/99 EDT, you wrote:

>j_stillwater@... writes:

>

>> If a condition exists in 95% of a population, then isn't it really

>> codependent for a person or group of people to obsess about defining that

>> condition as an " illness " and " helping " that large majority of a

population

>> change?

>

>The figure is completely arbitrary and as far as I've ever been able to

>discover, just made up out of whole cloth. Amazing how these fantasy

figures

>continue to stick in people's minds, isn't it? This is one con that really

>does deserve Mark Twain's sarcastic remark about " lies, damned lies, and

>statistics. "

>

>When anyone quotes this to me (and have done in the past) I ask: who did the

>research? What population was being studied? What was the size of the

>sample, and how can we be assured that this is indeed representative of the

>population? What was the methodology? (and so forth) Since none of these

>questions can be answered because the figure is nothing but an number pulled

>out of thin air, depending on how insistent you are, the person making this

>claim can be made to look quite the fool for believing it.

>

>Regards,

>

Not only that, but this 95% figure supposedly refers to the percentage of

the population (er, what population?) suffering from " codependency " . And

there are a number of definitions of codependency. Not only that, there is

some basis for thinking it is a non-existant condition anyway. If

codependency means people who are involved in a self-defeating way with

someone who has an addiction problem (original meaning of the term I

believe), why would that be a condition and not just a poor choice? If

codependency means a set of characteristics including poor boundaries,

innappropriately low levels of self-esteem, etc, why is that a condition

and not just a set of characteristics? It is all nonsense, isn't it...

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

September 1, 1999