Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 Hi ; I think staying sober is the flip side of excessive drinking and no amount of abstinence trains us for moderation. Abstinence is all or nothing thinking, just like whiskey till I puke is all or nothing. Changing habits takes a lot of work and an investment of time. I still on occasion mow the lawn or part of it and the doctor has repeatedly told me not to do that. It's an old habit, a man mows his lawn. I have not invested the time to totally break the habit. I don't have the time to invest to learn moderate drinking. My habit with alcohol is all or nothing. For now I'll just stick with that, maybe out of laziness and a substantial fear of old habits returning. Once I returned to drinking after 11 months of abstinence and got really buzzed on three vodka's and thought hey this is okay. About four months later, I had my usual three and woke up in a hotel a hundred miles from home and to this day don't have a clue how I got there. Both our cars were at home. A real no funner. However, I got there in the middle of a blizzard and it was two days before I could get hooked up to get home. It was really embarrassing because I came out of it in the middle of a conversation and had no idea what had been said. (Enter the Twilight Zone Theme Song) What a mess. Worse, I woke up with too much money. Fortunately I DID find out where that came from, but it had me pretty worried that I had done something less than kosher to get that money. As it turned out, four folks had paid me at the bar, which was only two blocks from home. That was the end of any desire to moderate on my part, though in those days it didn't stop me from drinking for long. Duty calls. I still haven't gotten my shop air conditioner fixed so am working nights. Matter of fact I haven't got a good enough path cleared to get it out of the wall. All I need do is take it to the car wash and blast the dirt out of the condenser radiator. Physically I don't know if I can lift it anymore. I did last year, but that was then and now is now. Take care of yourself ; Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups From: UUSEAN@... Date sent: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:27:59 EDT To: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: I DRANK! > Hi , > Interesting. I did find the dictionary entry, " not addicted to > intoxicated drink.' to be of interest. In my view, and I must admit I did > get the idea from RR's Jack Trimpey, if I drink ,and I didn't want to drink, > then I show signs of being addicted. If I don't want to drink, and I don't > drink, then by this this line of thinking , I am sober if I don't drink, in > that by abstaining, I am avoiding addiction. > > The other definitions are interesting, however. Ane the fact that abstaining > per se is not listed at all is very interesting. I hope that today I was > sober in the other sences of the word as well. > > SOBER SEAN > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! > http://clickhere./click/606 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 Hi ; I think staying sober is the flip side of excessive drinking and no amount of abstinence trains us for moderation. Abstinence is all or nothing thinking, just like whiskey till I puke is all or nothing. Changing habits takes a lot of work and an investment of time. I still on occasion mow the lawn or part of it and the doctor has repeatedly told me not to do that. It's an old habit, a man mows his lawn. I have not invested the time to totally break the habit. I don't have the time to invest to learn moderate drinking. My habit with alcohol is all or nothing. For now I'll just stick with that, maybe out of laziness and a substantial fear of old habits returning. Once I returned to drinking after 11 months of abstinence and got really buzzed on three vodka's and thought hey this is okay. About four months later, I had my usual three and woke up in a hotel a hundred miles from home and to this day don't have a clue how I got there. Both our cars were at home. A real no funner. However, I got there in the middle of a blizzard and it was two days before I could get hooked up to get home. It was really embarrassing because I came out of it in the middle of a conversation and had no idea what had been said. (Enter the Twilight Zone Theme Song) What a mess. Worse, I woke up with too much money. Fortunately I DID find out where that came from, but it had me pretty worried that I had done something less than kosher to get that money. As it turned out, four folks had paid me at the bar, which was only two blocks from home. That was the end of any desire to moderate on my part, though in those days it didn't stop me from drinking for long. Duty calls. I still haven't gotten my shop air conditioner fixed so am working nights. Matter of fact I haven't got a good enough path cleared to get it out of the wall. All I need do is take it to the car wash and blast the dirt out of the condenser radiator. Physically I don't know if I can lift it anymore. I did last year, but that was then and now is now. Take care of yourself ; Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups From: UUSEAN@... Date sent: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:27:59 EDT To: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: I DRANK! > Hi , > Interesting. I did find the dictionary entry, " not addicted to > intoxicated drink.' to be of interest. In my view, and I must admit I did > get the idea from RR's Jack Trimpey, if I drink ,and I didn't want to drink, > then I show signs of being addicted. If I don't want to drink, and I don't > drink, then by this this line of thinking , I am sober if I don't drink, in > that by abstaining, I am avoiding addiction. > > The other definitions are interesting, however. Ane the fact that abstaining > per se is not listed at all is very interesting. I hope that today I was > sober in the other sences of the word as well. > > SOBER SEAN > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! > http://clickhere./click/606 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 , I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be addicted. I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 , I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be addicted. I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 , I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be addicted. I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 Hi , Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying inspired by, though, I want to know). Jan Re: I DRANK! >, > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be >addicted. > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >eGroups Spotlight: > " Seeing with Sound: The vOICe " - This group is for dicussing the new and experimental seeing-with-sound technology for the totally blind as provided by the vOICe. >http://clickhere./click/666 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 Hi , Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying inspired by, though, I want to know). Jan Re: I DRANK! >, > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be >addicted. > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >eGroups Spotlight: > " Seeing with Sound: The vOICe " - This group is for dicussing the new and experimental seeing-with-sound technology for the totally blind as provided by the vOICe. >http://clickhere./click/666 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 1999 Report Share Posted August 5, 1999 Hi , Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying inspired by, though, I want to know). Jan Re: I DRANK! >, > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink moderately. > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink for >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, I >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to drink, >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be >addicted. > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink today, >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >eGroups Spotlight: > " Seeing with Sound: The vOICe " - This group is for dicussing the new and experimental seeing-with-sound technology for the totally blind as provided by the vOICe. >http://clickhere./click/666 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 1999 Report Share Posted August 6, 1999 I know what you mean. I used to sit there and wonder, " Are these people speaking English? " <00a701bedfc5$70b034e0$4714fed-@mrsy> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=7045 > Hi , > > Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended > up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, > listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one > word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down > with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly > sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and > trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a > little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever > grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). > > I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries > to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I > think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying > inspired by, though, I want to know). > > Jan > > > Re: I DRANK! > > > >, > > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink > moderately. > > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. > >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past > >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink > for > >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, > I > >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to > drink, > >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be > >addicted. > > > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a > >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink > today, > >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 1999 Report Share Posted August 6, 1999 I know what you mean. I used to sit there and wonder, " Are these people speaking English? " <00a701bedfc5$70b034e0$4714fed-@mrsy> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=7045 > Hi , > > Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended > up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, > listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one > word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down > with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly > sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and > trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a > little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever > grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). > > I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries > to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I > think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying > inspired by, though, I want to know). > > Jan > > > Re: I DRANK! > > > >, > > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink > moderately. > > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. > >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past > >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink > for > >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, > I > >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to > drink, > >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be > >addicted. > > > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a > >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink > today, > >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 1999 Report Share Posted August 6, 1999 I know what you mean. I used to sit there and wonder, " Are these people speaking English? " <00a701bedfc5$70b034e0$4714fed-@mrsy> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=7045 > Hi , > > Your comment about 'word game' made me think that that's what it all ended > up being in aa - one big word game. After all, we sat hour after hour, > listening and sometimes participating more or less with them in speaking one > word after another word after another in those rooms and we were beaten down > with their words. One day I went to a meeting and found myself suddenly > sick of hearing them all talking about themselves over and over and over and > trying to outdo each other with their drunkalogues. It was the start of a > little crack that eventually got me here (and for that I am forever > grateful - sorry, couldn't resist). > > I guess my image of a sober person is one who thinks things through, tries > to be fair, and refrains from making everything one big emotional deal. I > think of that saying, 'sober as a judge' (what judge was that saying > inspired by, though, I want to know). > > Jan > > > Re: I DRANK! > > > >, > > I argree 100% that I will most likely never be trained to drink > moderately. > > And as I said once before, it really doen't seem to be worth the effort. > >All I am saying is that if I don't want to drink today, because of past > >experience, and I don't I am not addicted today....I do not want to drink > for > >the rest of my life. Therefore if I do drink, in spite of not wanting to, > I > >was addicted to booze that day. Today for example, I had a desire to > drink, > >and did not...therefore I am not addicted today. If I had, I would be > >addicted. > > > >I know it is really a word game, but I was after all, responding to a > >dictionary definition. And it does help to know that if I don't drink > today, > >I am not an alcohol addict....rather, I am sober. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 I can appreciate the personal 'share' of the below message, which is cautionary against someone embarking on an experiment of alcohol moderation. At the same time, I see unwelcome similarities to Stppist tactics, wherein a person says, [par] " I tried moderation, sure, and it worked for X-times, but then I ended up ,2,3,4 at the door of ... jails, institutions and death. You are correct, Abstinence Is an all or nothing thing; however, Sobriety is NOT, check the dictionary. Sobriety is moderation. sobriety and absinnence are not at all the same. Abstinence, especially in this Western society, is an extreme. This partially explains why the Stppist environment attracts people who thrive on extreme and fanatical responses to life, and goes to explain how this extremism can be surrepticiously exntended to other areas of life. Your post, while it may be well-intentioned, is no different from the councel frequently given in the rooms. If you meant to say Sobriety is an all or nothing thing, then you are flat out wrong. If you ment to say no one returns to non-abusive use of alcohol from a history of abuse, you are also wrong: many many do. In fact, I contend that Taboo-ifying substances or othere elements of compulsive behaviors only serves to hide the motivating forces for the compulsion and repetitive self-destructive actions. If a peson has abused a substance and does not want that substance in their body anymore, fine. If a person can inhabit the chemical space of drinking without destructive drunkenness, that is also fine; and moderate use is an easily obtainable goal, provided the underlying forces which precipitated the compulsivity are resolved and redirected. It is my objective to support people in their choice of Sobriety (= temperence and moderation) and to continually point out the inaccuracies, extremism, repression and sadism lurking within Steppist ideology. -GP wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=7002 > Hi ; > > I think staying sober is the flip side of excessive drinking and no > amount of abstinence trains us for moderation. Abstinence is all or > nothing thinking, just like whiskey till I puke is all or nothing. > > Changing habits takes a lot of work and an investment of time. I > still on occasion mow the lawn or part of it and the doctor has > repeatedly told me not to do that. It's an old habit, a man mows > his lawn. I have not invested the time to totally break the habit. > > I don't have the time to invest to learn moderate drinking. My habit > with alcohol is all or nothing. For now I'll just stick with that, > maybe out of laziness and a substantial fear of old habits returning. > > Once I returned to drinking after 11 months of abstinence and got > really buzzed on three vodka's and thought hey this is okay. About > four months later, I had my usual three and woke up in a hotel a > hundred miles from home and to this day don't have a clue how I > got there. Both our cars were at home. A real no funner. > However, I got there in the middle of a blizzard and it was two days > before I could get hooked up to get home. It was really > embarrassing because I came out of it in the middle of a > conversation and had no idea what had been said. (Enter the > Twilight Zone Theme Song) What a mess. Worse, I woke up with > too much money. Fortunately I DID find out where that came from, > but it had me pretty worried that I had done something less than > kosher to get that money. As it turned out, four folks had paid me > at the bar, which was only two blocks from home. > > That was the end of any desire to moderate on my part, though in > those days it didn't stop me from drinking for long. > > Duty calls. I still haven't gotten my shop air conditioner fixed so > am working nights. Matter of fact I haven't got a good enough path > cleared to get it out of the wall. All I need do is take it to the car > wash and blast the dirt out of the condenser radiator. Physically I > don't know if I can lift it anymore. I did last year, but that was then > and now is now. > > Take care of yourself ; > > > > Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups > From: UUSEAN@... > Date sent: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:27:59 EDT > To: 12-step-freeegroups > Subject: Re: I DRANK! > > > Hi , > > Interesting. I did find the dictionary entry, " not addicted to > > intoxicated drink.' to be of interest. In my view, and I must admit I did > > get the idea from RR's Jack Trimpey, if I drink ,and I didn't want to drink, > > then I show signs of being addicted. If I don't want to drink, and I don't > > drink, then by this this line of thinking , I am sober if I don't drink, in > > that by abstaining, I am avoiding addiction. > > > > The other definitions are interesting, however. Ane the fact that abstaining > > per se is not listed at all is very interesting. I hope that today I was > > sober in the other sences of the word as well. > > > > SOBER SEAN > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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