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Kim,

I'm glad you were able to drink and not hurt yourself or anyone else..I

would hope though, that you would not think that now you have to get drunk

all the time to prove NA wrong. I mean the, " I showed you " thing could be

really dangerous.

I have had friends return to social drinking after XA involvement. I

think that it only goes to show what most of on this list have found, that

just because we all may have had reason to go to a 12 step group, we are all

quite different. For example, I found that I never was able to " have a few

" now and then.

Could I be " turned " into a succesfull drinker? I don't know. I guess I

have decided that there is so much more to life than drinking, that it just

isn't worth the trouble. And, you know, I really don't like being drunk

anymore. Yet, I continued to drink. This, IMO, is a good defintion of

addiction.

So, I guess what I'm saying is if you like getting drunk, and it isn't

causing pain in your life, then enjoy it. Use your head, of course. For

example, when one drinks and drives, even if you don't kill yourself, or

others, you could be sent to.....AA!!!!!!....something to think about!

SEAN

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In a message dated 08/03/1999 8:33:36 PM Central Daylight Time,

johnhollister@... writes:

SO DID I, and for some reason this post didn't make it onto the site

even after two tries. I'll try one more time. I even tried to send it to

Apple and no reply. I checked the archives and no go.

, I get the posts individually to my e-mail address. I have received the

Headline, and I thought it was great.

Perhaps I too, may have a Michelob moment somewhere down the road.

Leigh

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Good luck. -

kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think. But it is so nice to be a " NORMAL " person now!Ha!!! I feel like

> going to NA and saying " I had a bee-r.Na-na-nee-na-na! But I won't

> cause they won't get it.

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

> _____________________________________________________________

>

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Good luck. -

kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think. But it is so nice to be a " NORMAL " person now!Ha!!! I feel like

> going to NA and saying " I had a bee-r.Na-na-nee-na-na! But I won't

> cause they won't get it.

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

> _____________________________________________________________

>

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kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not

only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think.

>

-------------------------

Mazel Tov, Kim...

I do suggest you read Audrey Kishline's " Moderation Management "

(may have a new title in the latest edition) and set up your own

definite guidelines, being conscious of health factors and personal

lifestyle factors. Then allow your " self-will " (what AA says you're

supposed to slay) to keep you to your commitment, and enjoy!

If you experience any difficulties, you can always enter another

phase of abstinence. Life is a series of phases anyway, no?

~Rita

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years

clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a

normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

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kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not

only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think.

>

-------------------------

Mazel Tov, Kim...

I do suggest you read Audrey Kishline's " Moderation Management "

(may have a new title in the latest edition) and set up your own

definite guidelines, being conscious of health factors and personal

lifestyle factors. Then allow your " self-will " (what AA says you're

supposed to slay) to keep you to your commitment, and enjoy!

If you experience any difficulties, you can always enter another

phase of abstinence. Life is a series of phases anyway, no?

~Rita

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years

clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a

normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

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kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not

only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think.

>

-------------------------

Mazel Tov, Kim...

I do suggest you read Audrey Kishline's " Moderation Management "

(may have a new title in the latest edition) and set up your own

definite guidelines, being conscious of health factors and personal

lifestyle factors. Then allow your " self-will " (what AA says you're

supposed to slay) to keep you to your commitment, and enjoy!

If you experience any difficulties, you can always enter another

phase of abstinence. Life is a series of phases anyway, no?

~Rita

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years

clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a

normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

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Good luck!

Re: I DRANK!

> kim rh wrote:

> >

> > HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> > What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not

> only

> > that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> > THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> > I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> > drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> > buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> > know.

> > I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> > think.

> >

> -------------------------

>

> Mazel Tov, Kim...

>

> I do suggest you read Audrey Kishline's " Moderation Management "

> (may have a new title in the latest edition) and set up your own

> definite guidelines, being conscious of health factors and personal

> lifestyle factors. Then allow your " self-will " (what AA says you're

> supposed to slay) to keep you to your commitment, and enjoy!

>

> If you experience any difficulties, you can always enter another

> phase of abstinence. Life is a series of phases anyway, no?

>

> ~Rita

>

>

> >

> > It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years

> clean " (eg-therefore

> > spiritual guru or something)

> > lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a

> normal

> > person / normal drinker. HA!

> >

> > Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> > kim

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.

> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!

> http://clickhere./click/630

>

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

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kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

SO DID I, and for some reason this post didn't make it onto the site

even after two tries. I'll try one more time. I even tried to send it to

Apple and no reply. I checked the archives and no go.

**********************************

JOHN DRINKS A BEER! Proves AA Theory Wrong

**********************************

After 10 years of continuous sobriety it has been confirmed that

Hollister partook of his formerly favorite libation. As it turns out the

reaction as predicted by the AA organization has proved completely

unfounded.

Mr. Hollister is reported to have consumed the beverage, felt a mildly

relaxing sensation, and then a slight disorientation that in his

words no longer held any

meaning for him. He then proceeded to go out on the town with a buddy,

and tried the(one beer) experiment in a social milieu. Once again he

experienced the same reaction, and also found that alcohol actually

hindered his social functioning now that he had developed his own

personality free of fermented spirits. The next day Mr. Hollister's

stomach was upset and he grieved briefly for the loss of his 10 year

status in an organization to which he no longer belonged. He then

reiterated his indifference toward alcohol and then proceeded to get on

with his life.

His former sponsor could not be reached for comment.

HERE IS AN EMAIL I JUST SUBMITTED TO A MM(Moderation Management) EGROUP.

Hi Amy,

Thanks for getting this rolling. I'm , 42 years old and have

accumulated 10 years of continuous abstinence. As of late I have been on

a email discussion group called 12 Step Free busily deprogramming myself

from 10 years of AA brainwashing. Over the years I have long suspected

that there are gray areas in the realm of addiction. I have even been

associated with a few people who have successfully moderated, and they

would have definitely been classified serious alcoholics.

On Friday Night after much deliberation and wrestling with AA doctrine I

decided to put their theories to the test. I drank two light beers.........

The sky didn't fall the earth didn't move, and what's further more I

wasn't particularly enamored of the sensation. Perhaps the love affair

is over. I really didn't expect my world to come crashing down around

me, but I am surprised at my reaction to it. I'm am really thrilled that

it now seems I prefer reality to alcohol. This was a shock I was not

expecting. I ordered the MM book and got on this egroup to be on the

safe side. It's possible that my indifference toward alcohol will

persist, but I have always been one to err on the side of caution in

matters such as these. At any rate, I am so happy to have accomplished

what I set out to do which is to validate what I have long suspected, to

put the final nail in the AA coffin, and to finally let go of " not

drinking " as an identity.

I'm not sure I ever want to develop the habit again to where I have to

work hard at keeping it under control, but I love the idea of not living

in fear of the stuff and having the infrequent cocktail should the

occasion render it appropriate. I am relishing my indifference towards

the stuff, and am hoping this will persist. Although I believe AA to be

a pernicious cult, it is clear my ten years did not go to waste

entirely. I stopped some very self destructive behavior, resolved many

deep seated emotional issues in therapy, and now I find myself reacting

to alcohol like a so called normie(No more for me thanks, I'm starting

to feel it.)

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This is a great thread. I moved out of a clean and sober building....best thing I ever did. It was like living in an AA meeting. They had room inspections once a month to supposedly check fire alarms...really it was to see if they could catch you with alcohol or drugs in your room. I have been buying cooking wine lately, and I know it is really silly...

but how rebellious I feel. I would have got kicked out for that. Last week I bought a bottle of beer...Dead Guy Ale for a " Day of the Dead " altat later this year. Gee....I haven't been obsessing about drinking it.

I have insisted on pain medication for surgical procedures and when I had a compound open fracture of my toe last year.

Funny thing, I took them as prescribed after going througha big guilt trip and deciding it was rediculous to take them less frequently when I was in pain. Nothing horrible happened. I stopped going to drs. that refused to give me pain meds for reasonable situations. To me after 11 years of not using drugs, this seemed cruel and punishing. I am not into suffering, and have decided I can use pain medication wisely for situations where ibuprofen is not enough. I really don't have a desire to drink though.

I really believe there was a time in my life where I was out of control with alcohol and drugs. I think it was directly related to the pain in my life. I think I outgrew it, learned to deal with my feelings,and now simply don't have a reason to abuse them. It has caused me to seriously re-think the gospel I was taught to swallow in AA. Just my two cents. I don't

even want to advise any of you what to do with your decisions. It's up to you as far as I am concerned. Rebekah

kim rh wrote:

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

SO DID I, and for some reason this post didn't make it onto the site

even after two tries. I'll try one more time. I even tried to send it to

Apple and no reply. I checked the archives and no go.

**********************************

JOHN DRINKS A BEER! Proves AA Theory Wrong

**********************************

After 10 years of continuous sobriety it has been confirmed that

Hollister partook of his formerly favorite libation. As it turns out the

reaction as predicted by the AA organization has proved completely

unfounded.

Mr. Hollister is reported to have consumed the beverage, felt a mildly

relaxing sensation, and then a slight disorientation that in his

words no longer held any

meaning for him. He then proceeded to go out on the town with a buddy,

and tried the(one beer) experiment in a social milieu. Once again he

experienced the same reaction, and also found that alcohol actually

hindered his social functioning now that he had developed his own

personality free of fermented spirits. The next day Mr. Hollister's

stomach was upset and he grieved briefly for the loss of his 10 year

status in an organization to which he no longer belonged. He then

reiterated his indifference toward alcohol and then proceeded to get on

with his life.

His former sponsor could not be reached for comment.

HERE IS AN EMAIL I JUST SUBMITTED TO A MM(Moderation Management) EGROUP.

Hi Amy,

Thanks for getting this rolling. I'm , 42 years old and have

accumulated 10 years of continuous abstinence. As of late I have been on

a email discussion group called 12 Step Free busily deprogramming myself

from 10 years of AA brainwashing. Over the years I have long suspected

that there are gray areas in the realm of addiction. I have even been

associated with a few people who have successfully moderated, and they

would have definitely been classified serious alcoholics.

On Friday Night after much deliberation and wrestling with AA doctrine I

decided to put their theories to the test. I drank two light beers.........

The sky didn't fall the earth didn't move, and what's further more I

wasn't particularly enamored of the sensation. Perhaps the love affair

is over. I really didn't expect my world to come crashing down around

me, but I am surprised at my reaction to it. I'm am really thrilled that

it now seems I prefer reality to alcohol. This was a shock I was not

expecting. I ordered the MM book and got on this egroup to be on the

safe side. It's possible that my indifference toward alcohol will

persist, but I have always been one to err on the side of caution in

matters such as these. At any rate, I am so happy to have accomplished

what I set out to do which is to validate what I have long suspected, to

put the final nail in the AA coffin, and to finally let go of " not

drinking " as an identity.

I'm not sure I ever want to develop the habit again to where I have to

work hard at keeping it under control, but I love the idea of not living

in fear of the stuff and having the infrequent cocktail should the

occasion render it appropriate. I am relishing my indifference towards

the stuff, and am hoping this will persist. Although I believe AA to be

a pernicious cult, it is clear my ten years did not go to waste

entirely. I stopped some very self destructive behavior, resolved many

deep seated emotional issues in therapy, and now I find myself reacting

to alcohol like a so called normie(No more for me thanks, I'm starting

to feel it.)

Click Here! <http://clickhere./click/473>

eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free>

www. <> - Simplifying group communications

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> , I get the posts individually to my e-mail address. I have received the

> Headline, and I thought it was great.

> Perhaps I too, may have a Michelob moment somewhere down the road.

> Leigh

Hi Leigh,

I don't get it. If my post did get through to the site. Why isn't it in

the archives,and why didn't I get any feedback at all? It just seemed

strange to me is all, and nobody commenting was getting to be like

waiting for the other shoe to drop. Anyway thanks for getting back to

me. I'm beginning to think that one of the reasons most of us(here on

step free) have such an aversion to Alcoholics Anonymous is that our

cases really are different, and we don't fit the powerless, gutter

hugging, hopeless, chronic alcoholic profile that AA caters to.

Probably many of us fall into the problem drinker rather than the

chronic alcoholic category that characterizes the contributors in the

BB. Maybe the AA fantasy trip is what many of them really need. I'm sure

it's true for guys like Jim K. I certainly won't begrudge them that.

It's important that other people be made aware that there are shades of

gray to alcohol issues and that one side does not fit all. I am

seriously considering starting up an MM Group here in San Diego so

people will have a choice even if I decide to not pursue my drinking any

further. Can you believe it there aren't any MM meetings here yet?

Below is an email from my brother that really warmed my heart.

Hear Hear! Good for you, . I really think that a lot of problem

drinking, i.e. heavy and habitual drinking, is just that: a bad habit. Like

all bad habits, it is a good idea to try and break it. During the last 10

years, you have successfully broken the habit. You can now enjoy a

glass of

fine wine with dinner or go out and have a drink or two and not have to go

through a long song and dance about why you can't have one. Hell, your circle

of friends and acquaintances might just double in size.

Alcohol is no more poisonous than mashed potatoes, unless you eat 20 pounds

of buttered mashed potatoes a day. You know you have more common sense than

that.

Here's to a mild, safe, and occasional (and above all else) a joyful

buzz to

you when the right moment comes.

Buell

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,

You have a special brother! It warmed my heart as well.

Life is Not Black and White, it is full of the colors of the rainbow.

I appreciate what you wrote.

There is no MM where I live either, but I am just not ready to go that route

as yet. I have received some Moderation Movement postings, and I just am not

sure about it yet. The vote is still out on that one.

I am speaking only from the stand point of HAVING to go or FEELING as if I

Have to attend a meeting, church etc. If I don't have to. My life stays

pretty full as it is and I love it.

Make a great day!

Leigh

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,

You have a special brother! It warmed my heart as well.

Life is Not Black and White, it is full of the colors of the rainbow.

I appreciate what you wrote.

There is no MM where I live either, but I am just not ready to go that route

as yet. I have received some Moderation Movement postings, and I just am not

sure about it yet. The vote is still out on that one.

I am speaking only from the stand point of HAVING to go or FEELING as if I

Have to attend a meeting, church etc. If I don't have to. My life stays

pretty full as it is and I love it.

Make a great day!

Leigh

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,

You have a special brother! It warmed my heart as well.

Life is Not Black and White, it is full of the colors of the rainbow.

I appreciate what you wrote.

There is no MM where I live either, but I am just not ready to go that route

as yet. I have received some Moderation Movement postings, and I just am not

sure about it yet. The vote is still out on that one.

I am speaking only from the stand point of HAVING to go or FEELING as if I

Have to attend a meeting, church etc. If I don't have to. My life stays

pretty full as it is and I love it.

Make a great day!

Leigh

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Kim I am so happy for you. Over the weekend the husband had one to many and

ended up in a hotel room snorting my rent money. Why does this happen to some

and not others? I am all confused all over again. I am so angry I just want

to murder him, but then I feel like its my fault for allowing him to go that

far, I know that sounds really stupid. If anyone in this group is from Long

Island New York, and knows the name of a good behavioral analyst who will not

focus on alcohol and drugs but the underlying problem, please please give me

the name. Things could get real ugly real fast

Thanks Jen

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Kim I am so happy for you. Over the weekend the husband had one to many and

ended up in a hotel room snorting my rent money. Why does this happen to some

and not others? I am all confused all over again. I am so angry I just want

to murder him, but then I feel like its my fault for allowing him to go that

far, I know that sounds really stupid. If anyone in this group is from Long

Island New York, and knows the name of a good behavioral analyst who will not

focus on alcohol and drugs but the underlying problem, please please give me

the name. Things could get real ugly real fast

Thanks Jen

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Kim I am so happy for you. Over the weekend the husband had one to many and

ended up in a hotel room snorting my rent money. Why does this happen to some

and not others? I am all confused all over again. I am so angry I just want

to murder him, but then I feel like its my fault for allowing him to go that

far, I know that sounds really stupid. If anyone in this group is from Long

Island New York, and knows the name of a good behavioral analyst who will not

focus on alcohol and drugs but the underlying problem, please please give me

the name. Things could get real ugly real fast

Thanks Jen

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Hi ,

Interesting. I did find the dictionary entry, " not addicted to

intoxicated drink.' to be of interest. In my view, and I must admit I did

get the idea from RR's Jack Trimpey, if I drink ,and I didn't want to drink,

then I show signs of being addicted. If I don't want to drink, and I don't

drink, then by this this line of thinking , I am sober if I don't drink, in

that by abstaining, I am avoiding addiction.

The other definitions are interesting, however. Ane the fact that abstaining

per se is not listed at all is very interesting. I hope that today I was

sober in the other sences of the word as well.

SOBER SEAN

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Congratulations for not getting blasted on the day that you chose to

drink.

You can title this

I DRANK and stayed SOBER

You were are still are Sober. You were sober after beer 1, even if you

got buzzed. What a concept.

from Webster's online dictionary:

sober=

" 1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not

addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk "

and applied mor generally,

" 4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness "

temperance =

" 1 : moderation in action, thought, or feeling : RESTRAINT

2 a : habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or

passions b : moderation in or abstinence from the use of intoxicating

drink. "

AA Lies. Sober does not mean abstaining; abstaining is not temperate,

but, in more social situations, abstaining is an extreme, total

response, not a moderate respone.

The all or nothing attitudes of Steppism hide behind misue of language

and psudo reasoning.

You are the Sober one.

I am amazed at how many people on this list still abuse the word

Sobriety and maintain the Steppist BS.

The deeper ramifications are covered elsewhere by others.

-GP

-GP

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6898

>

> HA HA! I had a beer and I didn't go to hell!HA!

> What a relief to be free from the fear of alcohol. Aaargh! HA! Not

only

> that, but it was delicious and I really enjoyed it!HA! SO

> THERE!HA,HA,HA,HA!

> I thought of you guys as I was sitting at the bar (like a grownup!)

> drinking it- ooh- I can't wait to tell 12st free the news!I got pretty

> buzzed off just one beer. How the hell I ever drank 8, 10, 12 I don't

> know.

> I am definitely going to do it again although not very often I don't

> think. But it is so nice to be a " NORMAL " person now!Ha!!! I feel like

> going to NA and saying " I had a bee-r.Na-na-nee-na-na! But I won't

> cause they won't get it.

>

> It's nice to have the burden of " 9 and 1/2 years

clean " (eg-therefore

> spiritual guru or something)

> lifted from me. So now I have 2 days !Ha ha!!! 2 days of being a

normal

> person / normal drinker. HA!

>

> Aah feel good!Cheers to you!!!

> kim

>

> _____________________________________________________________

>

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JKLING,

I'm a fellow Humanist, albeit a Religious Humanist. I beleive that what I

found in UUism is the strength and hope which has pushed me to seek a better

life. I have to say more than 12 step programs ever did. It's always great

to meet others on the UU path.

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I too attend Unitarian Univeralist gatherings. It fits me so well I often

have to ask myself how I missed getting connected with the fellowship in

past years. As a humanist, the traditions and principles make great sense.

I am glad to be a part of so many people that are concerned about people,

their strengths/weaknesses, and the care of our planet. Its very

spiritual!! Made meJust got back from the Mountain District Leadershipp

School in St. Malo outside Estes Park CO (RLLS). It was an experience that

I will never forget!

Re: I DRANK!

> By the way,

> As a Unitaratin Universalist, I am not surprised that nobody went to

hell

> after drinking a beer. I do not beleive in Hell. (g)

>

>

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