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Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't resist

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Posted

I agree with you

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 1:44:17 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Plus not all is equal - don't you think as Dietitians you deserve a better

pay then someone who didn't even graduate from High School and their biggest

ambition is to say " Will you take fries with that? " . What motivation would

there be to work hard if I have to give all my extra money away. I am sure

we all give our money to a charity we feel is worthy of our money, not to

the Bernie Madoff Relief fund.

Working at WIC I see families working so hard to get ahead and need that

extra help and then I see those who have their hands out for ANOTHER

" handout " .

If someone is in dire straits - for example, unemployed not by choice, can't

pay unforeseen medical bills, or even by laziness, etc. why can't there be

community service they do for their aid? My friend was laid off (now has a

job) but she volunteered during her layoff. End of rant....

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Madalyn Friedberg wrote:

>

>

> My grandchildren are private pay at their private schools. There are many

> children there who receive scholarships and live in less affluent areas, so

> the population is not at all one sided.

> I believe there is a correlation between what my granddaughter did and the

> healthcare reform bill. She internalized the message that we have a

> responsibility for those less fortunate than we are. That she may have to be

> taxed so that others can have what she has. Granted, her project was

> voluntary and taxation is not, but she is learning - the school is founded

> on these principles LEADERSHIP HONOR AND COURAGE.

>

> ________________________________

> From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

> >

>

> To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 3:39:25 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> Not sure how children who can afford private school contributing $5 for

> Haiti relief (which was wonderful) with the reward to wear denim for the day

> (also relief from wearing the uniform) relates to healthcare mandates and

> capitalism. I do applaud your granddaughter' s ingenuity--I love it when

> kids take initiatives like that. However, the kids in a private school may

> be in a very different economic situation than much of cash-strapped America

> who will not have a choice whether or not to participate, as the students in

> your example did. I wonder if the President would be as open to " relief from

> the mandate " as the Headmaster was.

>

> Respectfully,

> Diane

>

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> socialist

> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

>

> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

> strive to become more of an individual.

>

> Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay extra

> for

> the right.

>

> The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I started

> out

> with!

>

> Jan ;-)

>

> PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just doesn't

> work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits individuality.

> Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia why they

>

> want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what our

> current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill wasn't

> about

> health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> Diane,

>

> I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> grandchildren

> being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a

> proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear

> denim one

> day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money

> collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in school

> he was so

> impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> $600.

> Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of the

> line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the

>

> 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach

>

> their children what you have taught yours.

>

> Madalyn

>

> Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> Director of Medical Nutrition

> Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> (Mountain Time)

> Fax:

> DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

> from now and make a brand new ending. "

> ~Carl Bard

>

>

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Posted
Posted

, I agree with you to a certain extent...community service is

always a good idea.

My thing is...is that I just don't let the thoughts of what I don't

have or what other do have consume me. I worked hard to be where I am

and to have the life that I do...and I aqm proud and content with

that. I think most people feel that way...I think that some people who

have been rejected and told they are nothing give up and don't even

try...just easier to take the meager handouts that they qualify

for.....but i t really doesn't bother me even if I am paying student

loans until I'm 50 b/c I am happy and blessed to have a great job and

family.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I agree with you

>

> ________________________________

> From: Ortiz <nrord1@... <nrord1%40gmail.com>>

> To: rd-usa  <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 1:44:17 PM

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

>

> Plus not all is equal - don't you think as Dietitians you deserve a better

> pay then someone who didn't even graduate from High School and their biggest

> ambition is to say " Will you take fries with that? " . What motivation would

> there be to work hard if I have to give all my extra money away. I am sure

> we all give our money to a charity we feel is worthy of our money, not to

> the Bernie Madoff Relief fund.

>

> Working at WIC I see families working so hard to get ahead and need that

> extra help and then I see those who have their hands out for ANOTHER

> " handout " .

>

> If someone is in dire straits - for example, unemployed not by choice, can't

> pay unforeseen medical bills, or even by laziness, etc. why can't there be

> community service they do for their aid? My friend was laid off (now has a

> job) but she volunteered during her layoff. End of rant....

>

> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Madalyn Friedberg

wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> My grandchildren are private pay at their private schools. There are many

>> children there who receive scholarships and live in less affluent areas, so

>> the population is not at all one sided.

>> I believe there is a correlation between what my granddaughter did and the

>> healthcare reform bill. She internalized the message that we have a

>> responsibility for those less fortunate than we are. That she may have to be

>> taxed so that others can have what she has. Granted, her project was

>> voluntary and taxation is not, but she is learning - the school is founded

>> on these principles LEADERSHIP HONOR AND COURAGE.

>>

>> ________________________________

>> From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

>> >

>>

>> To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

>> Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 3:39:25 PM

>>

>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

>> -can't resist

>>

>> Not sure how children who can afford private school contributing $5 for

>> Haiti relief (which was wonderful) with the reward to wear denim for the day

>> (also relief from wearing the uniform) relates to healthcare mandates and

>> capitalism. I do applaud your granddaughter' s ingenuity--I love it when

>> kids take initiatives like that. However, the kids in a private school may

>> be in a very different economic situation than much of cash-strapped America

>> who will not have a choice whether or not to participate, as the students in

>> your example did. I wonder if the President would be as open to " relief from

>> the mandate " as the Headmaster was.

>>

>> Respectfully,

>> Diane

>>

>>

>> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

>> -can't resist

>>

>> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>>

>> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

>> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

>> socialist

>> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

>>

>> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

>> strive to become more of an individual.

>>

>> Your granddaughter a

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

But the children received a reward for their optional contribution to those less

fortunate whereas those who don't participate in mandatory healthcare will be

penalized. I'm sure the students are learning many good things from the project

and in their school. No argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS

in the details and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have agreed to

have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be desired, so I hope I

have not seemed contentious to your points. Just contributing to an important

conversation with many, many facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice socialist

thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

. people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

strive to become more of an individual.

Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay extra for

the right.

The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I started out

with!

Jan ;-)

PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just doesn't

work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits individuality.

Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia why they

want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what our

current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill wasn't

about

health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

informed vet if you want more details.)

In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

grandchildren

being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a

proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim

one

day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money

collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in school he

was so

impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

$600.

Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of the

line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the

'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach

their children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

" Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending. "

~Carl Bard

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Posted
Posted

But the children received a reward for their optional contribution to those less

fortunate whereas those who don't participate in mandatory healthcare will be

penalized. I'm sure the students are learning many good things from the project

and in their school. No argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS

in the details and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have agreed to

have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be desired, so I hope I

have not seemed contentious to your points. Just contributing to an important

conversation with many, many facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice socialist

thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

. people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

strive to become more of an individual.

Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay extra for

the right.

The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I started out

with!

Jan ;-)

PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just doesn't

work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits individuality.

Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia why they

want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what our

current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill wasn't

about

health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

informed vet if you want more details.)

In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

grandchildren

being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a

proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim

one

day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money

collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in school he

was so

impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

$600.

Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of the

line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the

'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach

their children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

" Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending. "

~Carl Bard

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Diane,

I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who have joined in

this thread.

The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that it is a step

in the right direction. The status of health care in this country is shameful.

We are supposedly one of the richest nations and yet we have so many poor health

outcomes.

The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless and have

not had access to good or adequate or early intervention health care, if they

had they might not arrive at my facility in the depleted nutritional state they

do.

I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails leave much to

be desired and face to face conversations are more satisfying.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

But the children received a reward for their optional contribution to those less

fortunate whereas those who don't participate in mandatory healthcare will be

penalized. I'm sure the students are learning many good things from the project

and in their school. No argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS

in the details and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have agreed to

have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be desired, so I hope I

have not seemed contentious to your points. Just contributing to an important

conversation with many, many facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice socialist

thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

.. people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

strive to become more of an individual.

Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay extra for

the right.

The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I started out

with!

Jan ;-)

PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just doesn't

work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits individuality.

Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia why they

want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what our

current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill wasn't

about

health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

informed vet if you want more details.)

In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my grandchildren

being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a

proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim one

day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money

collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in school he was

so

impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

$600.

Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of the

line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the

'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach

their children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

" Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending. "

~Carl Bard

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Diane,

I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who have joined in

this thread.

The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that it is a step

in the right direction. The status of health care in this country is shameful.

We are supposedly one of the richest nations and yet we have so many poor health

outcomes.

The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless and have

not had access to good or adequate or early intervention health care, if they

had they might not arrive at my facility in the depleted nutritional state they

do.

I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails leave much to

be desired and face to face conversations are more satisfying.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

But the children received a reward for their optional contribution to those less

fortunate whereas those who don't participate in mandatory healthcare will be

penalized. I'm sure the students are learning many good things from the project

and in their school. No argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS

in the details and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have agreed to

have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be desired, so I hope I

have not seemed contentious to your points. Just contributing to an important

conversation with many, many facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't afford

expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice socialist

thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring uniforms . .

.. people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll tend to

strive to become more of an individual.

Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay extra for

the right.

The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I started out

with!

Jan ;-)

PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just doesn't

work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits individuality.

Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia why they

want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what our

current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill wasn't

about

health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

informed vet if you want more details.)

In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my grandchildren

being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a

proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim one

day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money

collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in school he was

so

impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

$600.

Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of the

line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the

'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach

their children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

" Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending. "

~Carl Bard

Link to comment
Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Madalyn,

Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

thought I had.

I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Warmest regards,

pam

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> Diane,

>

> I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> have joined in this thread.

>

> The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> satisfying.

>

> Madalyn

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa

> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> Respectfully,

> Diane Preves

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> afford

> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> socialist

> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> uniforms . .

> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> tend to

> strive to become more of an individual.

>

> Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> extra for

> the right.

>

> The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> started out

> with!

>

> Jan ;-)

>

> PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> doesn't

> work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> individuality.

> Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> why they

> want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> our

> current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> wasn't about

> health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> Diane,

>

> I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> grandchildren

> being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> made a

> proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> wear denim one

> day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> money

> collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> school he was so

> impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> $600.

> Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> the

> line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> from the

> 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> to teach

> their children what you have taught yours.

>

> Madalyn

>

> Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> Director of Medical Nutrition

> Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> (Mountain Time)

> Fax:

> DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> start

> from now and make a brand new ending. "

> ~Carl Bard

>

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Pam,

You reminded me of the following.

When my children were young we decided to host Fresh Air Kids. This was a

program sponsored by a New York City newspaper. The idea was to get inner city

kids out of the city for a summer vacation either at a Fresh Air sponsored camp

or at host families in the suburbs.

We did this for many years with varied experiences.

1. A boy who came with more and nicer clothing than my sons, and whose father

drove a nicer car than we did. Turned out, his mother spent most of her food

money to buy him the new clothes so he would look nice for us. His father drove

people to the airport and so the nice car. This child was a part of our family

for many years.

2. A girl who when I asked her what she would like for dinner replied 'steak'.

Sometime later I asked what her mother usually made for dinner and she told me

'cereal but sometimes when we are shopping she puts a steak under her shirt when

no one is looking so we can have meat'.

3. A girl whose family had a beautiful home, a gas grill (we still had a cheap

charcoal grill) and whose parents both had steady civil service jobs. Turned

out, they had been in need many years before and their older children had been

Fresh Air Kids. Now that they were no longer in need they still thought it was a

good way to get their daughter out of the city for 2 weeks.

There are people who take advantage of the system and people who need the

system. This will probably never change.

The school uniform discussion is one I did not understand.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 11:37:01 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Madalyn,

Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

thought I had.

I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Warmest regards,

pam

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> Diane,

>

> I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> have joined in this thread.

>

> The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> satisfying.

>

> Madalyn

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa

> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> Respectfully,

> Diane Preves

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> afford

> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> socialist

> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> uniforms . .

> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> tend to

> strive to become more of an individual.

>

> Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> extra for

> the right.

>

> The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> started out

> with!

>

> Jan ;-)

>

> PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> doesn't

> work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> individuality.

> Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> why they

> want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> our

> current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> wasn't about

> health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> Diane,

>

> I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> grandchildren

> being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> made a

> proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> wear denim one

> day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> money

> collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> school he was so

> impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> $600.

> Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> the

> line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> from the

> 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> to teach

> their children what you have taught yours.

>

> Madalyn

>

> Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> Director of Medical Nutrition

> Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> (Mountain Time)

> Fax:

> DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> start

> from now and make a brand new ending. "

> ~Carl Bard

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Pam,

You reminded me of the following.

When my children were young we decided to host Fresh Air Kids. This was a

program sponsored by a New York City newspaper. The idea was to get inner city

kids out of the city for a summer vacation either at a Fresh Air sponsored camp

or at host families in the suburbs.

We did this for many years with varied experiences.

1. A boy who came with more and nicer clothing than my sons, and whose father

drove a nicer car than we did. Turned out, his mother spent most of her food

money to buy him the new clothes so he would look nice for us. His father drove

people to the airport and so the nice car. This child was a part of our family

for many years.

2. A girl who when I asked her what she would like for dinner replied 'steak'.

Sometime later I asked what her mother usually made for dinner and she told me

'cereal but sometimes when we are shopping she puts a steak under her shirt when

no one is looking so we can have meat'.

3. A girl whose family had a beautiful home, a gas grill (we still had a cheap

charcoal grill) and whose parents both had steady civil service jobs. Turned

out, they had been in need many years before and their older children had been

Fresh Air Kids. Now that they were no longer in need they still thought it was a

good way to get their daughter out of the city for 2 weeks.

There are people who take advantage of the system and people who need the

system. This will probably never change.

The school uniform discussion is one I did not understand.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 11:37:01 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Madalyn,

Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

thought I had.

I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Warmest regards,

pam

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> Diane,

>

> I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> have joined in this thread.

>

> The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> satisfying.

>

> Madalyn

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa

> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> Respectfully,

> Diane Preves

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> afford

> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> socialist

> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> uniforms . .

> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> tend to

> strive to become more of an individual.

>

> Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> extra for

> the right.

>

> The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> started out

> with!

>

> Jan ;-)

>

> PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> doesn't

> work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> individuality.

> Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> why they

> want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> our

> current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> wasn't about

> health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> Diane,

>

> I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> grandchildren

> being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> made a

> proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> wear denim one

> day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> money

> collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> school he was so

> impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> $600.

> Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> the

> line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> from the

> 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> to teach

> their children what you have taught yours.

>

> Madalyn

>

> Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> Director of Medical Nutrition

> Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> (Mountain Time)

> Fax:

> DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> start

> from now and make a brand new ending. "

> ~Carl Bard

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people from all

over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/operations?How come,

even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the system she has is so wonderful?How

come - if you ask every previous citizen of the former USSR will tell you how

bad it was? And if it is so great - why the President and senators and other

officials in Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I hope, I really

hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for a rude awakening after

2014.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> To: rd-usa

> From: pcharney@...

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

>

> Madalyn,

>

> Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

> moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

> to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

>

> I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

> of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> thought I had.

>

> I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

> that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

> aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

> their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

> didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

>

> So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

> to come to a reasonable conclusion.

>

> Warmest regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharney@...

>

>

>

>

>

> > Diane,

> >

> > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > have joined in this thread.

> >

> > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> >

> > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> > depleted nutritional state they do.

> >

> > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > satisfying.

> >

> > Madalyn

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: rd-usa

> > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments -can't resist

> >

> > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> >

> > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Diane Preves

> >

> > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments -can't resist

> >

> > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> >

> > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > afford

> > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> > socialist

> > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > uniforms . .

> > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > tend to

> > strive to become more of an individual.

> >

> > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> > extra for

> > the right.

> >

> > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > started out

> > with!

> >

> > Jan ;-)

> >

> > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > doesn't

> > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > individuality.

> > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > why they

> > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> > our

> > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> > wasn't about

> > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> > informed vet if you want more details.)

> >

> > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> >

> > Diane,

> >

> > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > grandchildren

> > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > made a

> > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > wear denim one

> > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > money

> > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > school he was so

> > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> > $600.

> > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> > the

> > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > from the

> > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > to teach

> > their children what you have taught yours.

> >

> > Madalyn

> >

> > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > (Mountain Time)

> > Fax:

> > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> >

> > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > start

> > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > ~Carl Bard

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people from all

over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/operations?How come,

even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the system she has is so wonderful?How

come - if you ask every previous citizen of the former USSR will tell you how

bad it was? And if it is so great - why the President and senators and other

officials in Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I hope, I really

hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for a rude awakening after

2014.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> To: rd-usa

> From: pcharney@...

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

>

> Madalyn,

>

> Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

> moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

> to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

>

> I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

> of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> thought I had.

>

> I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

> that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

> aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

> their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

> didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

>

> So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

> to come to a reasonable conclusion.

>

> Warmest regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharney@...

>

>

>

>

>

> > Diane,

> >

> > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > have joined in this thread.

> >

> > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> >

> > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> > depleted nutritional state they do.

> >

> > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > satisfying.

> >

> > Madalyn

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: rd-usa

> > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments -can't resist

> >

> > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> >

> > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Diane Preves

> >

> > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments -can't resist

> >

> > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> >

> > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > afford

> > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> > socialist

> > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > uniforms . .

> > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > tend to

> > strive to become more of an individual.

> >

> > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> > extra for

> > the right.

> >

> > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > started out

> > with!

> >

> > Jan ;-)

> >

> > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > doesn't

> > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > individuality.

> > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > why they

> > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> > our

> > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> > wasn't about

> > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> > informed vet if you want more details.)

> >

> > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> >

> > Diane,

> >

> > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > grandchildren

> > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > made a

> > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > wear denim one

> > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > money

> > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > school he was so

> > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> > $600.

> > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> > the

> > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > from the

> > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > to teach

> > their children what you have taught yours.

> >

> > Madalyn

> >

> > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > (Mountain Time)

> > Fax:

> > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> >

> > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > start

> > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > ~Carl Bard

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Merav,

Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

help with breastfeeding.

Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

prices available in Canada.

Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

(as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

she would be politely turned away.

I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

towards the ideal.

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

>

> If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> > To: rd-usa

> > From: pcharney@...

> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

> >

> > Madalyn,

> >

> > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> As a

> > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> continue

> > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> >

> > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> ability

> > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > thought I had.

> >

> > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> are in

> > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> whatnot in

> > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> what

> > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> lines,

> > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> event.

> >

> > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> information

> > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Merav,

Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

help with breastfeeding.

Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

prices available in Canada.

Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

(as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

she would be politely turned away.

I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

towards the ideal.

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

>

> If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> > To: rd-usa

> > From: pcharney@...

> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

> >

> > Madalyn,

> >

> > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> As a

> > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> continue

> > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> >

> > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> ability

> > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > thought I had.

> >

> > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> are in

> > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> whatnot in

> > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> what

> > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> lines,

> > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> event.

> >

> > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> information

> > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Just to clarify, with a relative on Capitol Hill, I can tell you first hand

the Congress and White House have a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan The other

plan that was referenced ended in the late 70's

In a message dated 4/8/2010 10:17:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

pcharney@... writes:

Merav,

Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

help with breastfeeding.

Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

prices available in Canada.

Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

(as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

she would be politely turned away.

I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

towards the ideal.

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

>

> If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> > To: rd-usa

> > From: pcharney@...

> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

> >

> > Madalyn,

> >

> > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> As a

> > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> continue

> > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> >

> > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> ability

> > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > thought I had.

> >

> > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> are in

> > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> whatnot in

> > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> what

> > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> lines,

> > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> event.

> >

> > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> information

> > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are young

and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for government

help but haven't taken it.   I believe the true number is somewhere around 10

million.   My vote would be to make changes to help those that need it, but not

overhaul the whole system, especially when in the end, it will cost much more

than they are admitting to, and this spending just has to stop.  

 

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe 

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are 

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in 

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the 

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you 

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a 

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . 

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can 

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear 

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died 

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's 

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care 

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to 

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. 

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised 

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front 

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are young

and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for government

help but haven't taken it.   I believe the true number is somewhere around 10

million.   My vote would be to make changes to help those that need it, but not

overhaul the whole system, especially when in the end, it will cost much more

than they are admitting to, and this spending just has to stop.  

 

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe 

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are 

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in 

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the 

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you 

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a 

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . 

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can 

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear 

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died 

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's 

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care 

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to 

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. 

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised 

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front 

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are young

and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for government

help but haven't taken it.   I believe the true number is somewhere around 10

million.   My vote would be to make changes to help those that need it, but not

overhaul the whole system, especially when in the end, it will cost much more

than they are admitting to, and this spending just has to stop.  

 

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe 

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are 

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in 

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the 

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you 

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a 

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . 

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can 

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear 

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died 

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's 

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care 

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to 

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. 

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised 

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front 

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

" Is that means that we all should wear Wrangler jeans, plaid tops and boots

or same sneakers? "

Hey, what's wrong with boots and wranglers and plaid? They are the only

jeans my hubby will buy - well, those and Carharts if you call them jeans. .

..

Oh, nevermind ;-) . . . I live in western Colorado. . . that's

mainstream here, esp. with the cowboy hat! ;-)

Actually, the little town I have to drive thru to get home (I don't live IN

the town) . . . it's people are very NOT about keeping up with the .

In fact, when you meet locals, with cowboy hats, beat up pick-up trucks,

missing teeth, etc, you think they're all rednecks (well, many are. . ) But,

then you get to know " us " and find out we have numerous college degrees,

or are former classical musicians, or even Nobel Prize winners. . . but look

like your average Joe (or Jane) sitting on the front porch in boots, hats

and jeans.

;-)

Jan

PS. Oh, I forget to mention - might live in trailers, or unfinished log

cabins or houses that are " build as you can afford to add on " . . . and very

likely have a wood pile for heat and still haul their own water. . . and we

LIKE it that way.

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4@...

" Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending. "

~Carl Bard

In a message dated 4/8/2010 8:27:05 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

meravls@... writes:

Let me take it to an " extreme " - Hanibal Lecter, in the Silence of the

LAmb says: " how do we begin to covet? when we see what our neighbors

have " ...now - is that means that just because others have more we have to

become

serial killers (Buffalo Bill in the movie).Is that means that we all should

ware Wrangler jeans, plaid tops and boots or same sneakers? If we don't want

the better things our society offers we will not strive to get them

(hopefully in a legal way, assuming we area descent people who plan to get it

by

working hard).Is that mean that if I treat my daughter once in a blue moon

to an item at Barnies (Sale price, only!! I am not that crazy or fortunate)

- I have to get something of equal value to an unfortunate kid?Giving

things doesn't make it better for the poor and unfortunate, it makes the rich

and fortunate feel better about themselves. I said it before, I know.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: mffrd10019@...

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:17:20 -0700

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

Pam,

You reminded me of the following.

When my children were young we decided to host Fresh Air Kids. This was a

program sponsored by a New York City newspaper. The idea was to get inner

city kids out of the city for a summer vacation either at a Fresh Air

sponsored camp or at host families in the suburbs.

We did this for many years with varied experiences.

1. A boy who came with more and nicer clothing than my sons, and whose

father drove a nicer car than we did. Turned out, his mother spent most of her

food money to buy him the new clothes so he would look nice for us. His

father drove people to the airport and so the nice car. This child was a part

of our family for many years.

2. A girl who when I asked her what she would like for dinner replied

'steak'. Sometime later I asked what her mother usually made for dinner and she

told me 'cereal but sometimes when we are shopping she puts a steak under

her shirt when no one is looking so we can have meat'.

3. A girl whose family had a beautiful home, a gas grill (we still had a

cheap charcoal grill) and whose parents both had steady civil service jobs.

Turned out, they had been in need many years before and their older

children had been Fresh Air Kids. Now that they were no longer in need they

still

thought it was a good way to get their daughter out of the city for 2 weeks.

There are people who take advantage of the system and people who need the

system. This will probably never change.

The school uniform discussion is one I did not understand.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 11:37:01 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

Madalyn,

Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction. As a

moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will continue

to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the ability

of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

thought I had.

I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need are in

that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or whatnot in

aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know what

their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land lines,

didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go event.

So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough information

to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Warmest regards,

pam

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> Diane,

>

> I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> have joined in this thread.

>

> The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe that

> it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are homeless

> and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in the

> depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> satisfying.

>

> Madalyn

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa

> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the details

> and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you have

> agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> Respectfully,

> Diane Preves

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

>

> Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> afford

> expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a nice

> socialist

> thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> uniforms . .

> . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> tend to

> strive to become more of an individual.

>

> Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . . work

> hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can pay

> extra for

> the right.

>

> The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear denim to

> school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> started out

> with!

>

> Jan ;-)

>

> PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> doesn't

> work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> individuality.

> Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> why they

> want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died protecting our

> constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's what

> our

> current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care bill

> wasn't about

> health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to an

> informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> Diane,

>

> I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> grandchildren

> being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> made a

> proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> wear denim one

> day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> money

> collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The

> Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> school he was so

> impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over

> $600.

> Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front of

> the

> line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> from the

> 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> to teach

> their children what you have taught yours.

>

> Madalyn

>

> Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> Director of Medical Nutrition

> Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> (Mountain Time)

> Fax:

> DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> start

> from now and make a brand new ending. "

> ~Carl Bard

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Posted
Posted

How many of them are young folks that can't afford it b/c they are strapped

down with student loans?

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Linke wrote:

>

>

> Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

> includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are

> young and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for

> government help but haven't taken it. I believe the true number is

> somewhere around 10 million. My vote would be to make changes to help

> those that need it, but not overhaul the whole system, especially when in

> the end, it will cost much more than they are admitting to, and this

> spending just has to stop.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > > have joined in this thread.

> > > >

> > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> > that

> > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > > >

> > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> > homeless

> > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> > the

> > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > > >

> > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > > satisfying.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

> >

> > > > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> > details

> > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > > >

> > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> > have

> > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > Diane Preves

> > > >

> > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > > afford

> > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> > nice

> > > > socialist

> > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > > uniforms . .

> > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > > tend to

> > > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > > >

> > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> > work

> > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> > pay

> > > > extra for

> > > > the right.

> > > >

> > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> > denim to

> > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > > started out

> > > > with!

> > > >

> > > > Jan ;-)

> > > >

> > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > > doesn't

> > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > > individuality.

> > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > > why they

> > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> > protecting our

> > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> > what

> > > > our

> > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> > bill

> > > > wasn't about

> > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> > an

> > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > > grandchildren

> > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > > made a

> > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > > wear denim one

> > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > > money

> > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> > The

> > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > > school he was so

> > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> > over

> > > > $600.

> > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > > from the

> > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > > to teach

> > > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > > (Mountain Time)

> > > > Fax:

> > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > > >

> > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > > start

> > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > > ~Carl Bard

> > > >

> > > >

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

How many of them are young folks that can't afford it b/c they are strapped

down with student loans?

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Linke wrote:

>

>

> Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

> includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are

> young and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for

> government help but haven't taken it. I believe the true number is

> somewhere around 10 million. My vote would be to make changes to help

> those that need it, but not overhaul the whole system, especially when in

> the end, it will cost much more than they are admitting to, and this

> spending just has to stop.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > > have joined in this thread.

> > > >

> > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> > that

> > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > > >

> > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> > homeless

> > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> > the

> > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > > >

> > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > > satisfying.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

> >

> > > > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> > details

> > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > > >

> > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> > have

> > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > Diane Preves

> > > >

> > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > > afford

> > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> > nice

> > > > socialist

> > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > > uniforms . .

> > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > > tend to

> > > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > > >

> > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> > work

> > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> > pay

> > > > extra for

> > > > the right.

> > > >

> > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> > denim to

> > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > > started out

> > > > with!

> > > >

> > > > Jan ;-)

> > > >

> > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > > doesn't

> > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > > individuality.

> > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > > why they

> > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> > protecting our

> > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> > what

> > > > our

> > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> > bill

> > > > wasn't about

> > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> > an

> > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > > grandchildren

> > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > > made a

> > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > > wear denim one

> > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > > money

> > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> > The

> > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > > school he was so

> > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> > over

> > > > $600.

> > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > > from the

> > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > > to teach

> > > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > > (Mountain Time)

> > > > Fax:

> > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > > >

> > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > > start

> > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > > ~Carl Bard

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

How many of them are young folks that can't afford it b/c they are strapped

down with student loans?

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Linke wrote:

>

>

> Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

> includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are

> young and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for

> government help but haven't taken it. I believe the true number is

> somewhere around 10 million. My vote would be to make changes to help

> those that need it, but not overhaul the whole system, especially when in

> the end, it will cost much more than they are admitting to, and this

> spending just has to stop.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > > have joined in this thread.

> > > >

> > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> > that

> > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > > >

> > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> > homeless

> > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> > the

> > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > > >

> > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > > satisfying.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

> >

> > > > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> > details

> > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > > >

> > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> > have

> > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > Diane Preves

> > > >

> > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > > afford

> > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> > nice

> > > > socialist

> > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > > uniforms . .

> > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > > tend to

> > > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > > >

> > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> > work

> > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> > pay

> > > > extra for

> > > > the right.

> > > >

> > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> > denim to

> > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > > started out

> > > > with!

> > > >

> > > > Jan ;-)

> > > >

> > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > > doesn't

> > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > > individuality.

> > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > > why they

> > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> > protecting our

> > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> > what

> > > > our

> > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> > bill

> > > > wasn't about

> > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> > an

> > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > > grandchildren

> > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > > made a

> > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > > wear denim one

> > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > > money

> > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> > The

> > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > > school he was so

> > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> > over

> > > > $600.

> > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > > from the

> > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > > to teach

> > > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > > (Mountain Time)

> > > > Fax:

> > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > > >

> > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > > start

> > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > > ~Carl Bard

> > > >

> > > >

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Posted

HI Pam,

Let me start by saying that I do believe and strongly support coverage for all

who are citizens/legal residents in a given country.As for France and Australia

- it sounds like their system is like the Israeli one. Gov+Private. and you

know how it was created? At least in Israel - at one point, not so long ago but

how long that can be in a 60 yo country...LOL, but still about 10 years ago) the

" reform " happened. and everybody where given same basic coverage.What happened -

people where not happy - why?They either had to wait long time to see a

specialist or they would never get to their choice of specialist. So - what one

to do? If you have $$$ - you buy " supplemental insurance. If you cannot afford

it - you will have to wait or go to another doctor who will take your Gov

insurance. So - yes, now everybody are covered, but :A. Quality of care was

reduced bc the good doctors did not accept the Gov insurance (no one can force

them!)B. It created 2-classes patients or insured-group. Those for the rich and

those for the poor. WHo got " screwed " - the middle class - and that's , in my

opinion, what will happen here. The rich have the money to afford any doctor

they want. The poor - before they were not covered, now they are, they pay

nothing bc they are covered by tax payer $$ (which is OK) and they are happy bc

now they have coverage they didn't have before. The middle class, Like me -

will likely to lose our current insurance through my employer (after all, why

would my employers pay 100s of $$$$ a year for me when now I could get coverage

free of charge for the employer and for me.) only I would not be able to afford

the " supplemental insurance " that will open the door to the doctors I have been

seen in the past years, bc they will not accept the new Gov insurance. ONly the

" supplemental " one.It seems to me that someone in the GOv have decided that if

you are in a healing profession - you should not want to make money and live

luxurious life, or just the lifestyle you want bc you worked and studied hard to

get there....And again - you said it too - you would love to have the same

coverage as the congress - why won't you? If what they are offering for meadn

you is so great why MY (and yours!) TAX $$$ should pay for a different coverage

for them????? Am I a 2nd class citizen just because I am a voter, not an elected

official? SO much for " equalizing " the society.It is " equal for all " unless your

last name is Pelosi/Obama ect.

Now - as for the rich of other countries who come here for Tx - that is true

but again - if their health system was so wonderful - why come here? and I do

remember quite a few cases that were well publicized of non-fortunate people

who were granted health care here while they didn't pay a dime, not for air

fair, not for actual care. They where poor, very poor, from 3rd world countries

(usually with a rare or very complicated Dx) and the US or a certain hospital,

with the right world-renowned specialist, accepted the pt for humanitarian (and

maybe publicity too) reasons - and I am all for it. But it doesn't take any

from the fact that if their health care system is so great - why come here????

the answer, seems to be, that their health care is not so great.

As for GB - recently there was an article in one of the papers about a 70+ yo

Englishman who had a CA, terminal stage. He wanted to get a new Tx that was

approved here, but the UK gov refused it for him. It cost was 20,000 UK

Pounds!!! He didn't get it. But if he had the $$$ he might have chosen to pay it

out of pocket. So - while it is all different discussion what a 70-80 yo male

should get over my tax money (in this case the Brits $$$), it is certainly

different argument when it comes to a 7 yo boy with the same Dx (at least in my

eyes), BUT, when you get free service from the Gov - you DON'T get to choose as

you could with a private one. Again - the problem for me, being a middle class -

is that my coverage will be damaged and reduced compared to my current and I

will not be able to replace it. Why I need to lose and reduce my quality of care

in order to cover everybody, legal and not? Not to mention that now I will have

to pay for my insurance (something I didn't do so far) and pay more taxes to

cover the now uninsured. And if I am above the bracket of those who will get

free coverage, and choose not to buy insurance - I will be fined. How that

solve anything for someone who cannot afford additional extra 100s of $$$/month

I don't know. I don't get it.

(BTW - some Saudi citizens where allowed and given a special visa to go to

Israel for liver transplant in Haddassa Ein-Carem Medical center in Jerusalem.

It is one of the best hospitals in the middle east and in some areas - in Asia

and Europe! Yes, Israel has great doctors - BUT without a supplemental insurance

either you need to wait a long time - and if you have ESLD or a pediatric

emergency, you just can't wait! - or you would not be seen by the best MDs,

risking not getting the best tx for your dx. Not a must, but quite possible).

I don't want to deny coverage to 40M ppl - but I don't want to lose my coverage

and my daughter's just for others to have coverage and I don't want my tax $$$

to pay for illegal immigrants bc A. they do not contribute to the tax poll and

B. that will create a new type of " tourist " . They will enter with a tourist visa

only to go to the ER 2 days later getting a better care then they would get in

their countries - which is fine - BUT not on my tax $$$$.My hospital is full

with illegal immigrants that the hospital is not paid for - now the hospital

will be paid something, maybe not much but is better then nothing. The

administrators are very happy. But now - more ppl will come, and while the

hospital will get paid - it will be paid from MY tax money for people who

didn't not contribute to the tax $$$. They just came for the purpose of

care....Again - I hope I am wrong. I just don't see it...yet.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> To: rd-usa

> From: pcharney@...

> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:06:36 -0700

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

>

> Merav,

>

> Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

> healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

> but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

> arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

> system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

> detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

> a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

> I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

> support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

> their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

> help with breastfeeding.

>

> Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

> with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

> Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

> start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

> navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

> national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

> It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

> depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

> upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

> Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

> prices available in Canada.

>

> Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

> who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

> (as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

> country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

> the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

> here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

> she would be politely turned away.

>

> I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

> probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

> There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

>

> I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

> Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

> because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

> where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

> towards the ideal.

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharney@...

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> > from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> > operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> > system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> > citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> > is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> > Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> > because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> > hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> > a rude awakening after 2014.

> >

> > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > From: pcharney@...

> > > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Madalyn,

> > >

> > > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> > As a

> > > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> > continue

> > > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> > >

> > > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> > ability

> > > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > > thought I had.

> > >

> > > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> > are in

> > > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> > whatnot in

> > > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> > what

> > > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> > lines,

> > > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> > event.

> > >

> > > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> > information

> > > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> > >

> > > Warmest regards,

> > > pam

> > >

> > > Pam Charney

> > > pcharney@...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > > have joined in this thread.

> > > >

> > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> > that

> > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > > >

> > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> > homeless

> > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> > the

> > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > > >

> > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > > satisfying.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > >

> > > > To: rd-usa

> > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> > details

> > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > > >

> > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> > have

> > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > Diane Preves

> > > >

> > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > comments -can't resist

> > > >

> > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > > afford

> > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> > nice

> > > > socialist

> > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > > uniforms . .

> > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > > tend to

> > > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > > >

> > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> > work

> > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> > pay

> > > > extra for

> > > > the right.

> > > >

> > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> > denim to

> > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > > started out

> > > > with!

> > > >

> > > > Jan ;-)

> > > >

> > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > > doesn't

> > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > > individuality.

> > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > > why they

> > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> > protecting our

> > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> > what

> > > > our

> > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> > bill

> > > > wasn't about

> > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> > an

> > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > > >

> > > > Diane,

> > > >

> > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > > grandchildren

> > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > > made a

> > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > > wear denim one

> > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > > money

> > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> > The

> > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > > school he was so

> > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> > over

> > > > $600.

> > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > > from the

> > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > > to teach

> > > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > > >

> > > > Madalyn

> > > >

> > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > > (Mountain Time)

> > > > Fax:

> > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > > >

> > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > > start

> > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > > ~Carl Bard

> > > >

> > > >

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Posted
Posted

So what's the option:Go to school OR have health insurance? but if you find a

job you might be able to pay your student loan and in the current situation

(pre-health care bill implementation) your employer pays for your health care.

When the bill is implemented fully it won't, so your net income is reduced,

meaning it will take you longer to re-pay your student loan, which may block the

next desired step in your life - getting a mortgage bc your salary will not be

enough to pay for both and the bank will deny you the mortgage. Wonderful.We

want people to go to school to better their lives but we put stick in their

wagons.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> To: rd-usa

> From: jenzingaro@...

> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:51:17 -0400

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

-can't resist

>

> How many of them are young folks that can't afford it b/c they are strapped

> down with student loans?

>

> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Linke wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Pam, the figure of 47 million or 40 million is exagerated.... this number

> > includes illegals, and those that don't have health care because they are

> > young and don't think they need it, and also those that are eligible for

> > government help but haven't taken it. I believe the true number is

> > somewhere around 10 million. My vote would be to make changes to help

> > those that need it, but not overhaul the whole system, especially when in

> > the end, it will cost much more than they are admitting to, and this

> > spending just has to stop.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Diane,

> > > > >

> > > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > > > have joined in this thread.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> > > that

> > > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > > > >

> > > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> > > homeless

> > > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> > > the

> > > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > > > >

> > > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > > > satisfying.

> > > > >

> > > > > Madalyn

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. "

<newlife4health@...<newlife4health%40aol.com>

> > >

> > > > > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > > comments -can't resist

> > > > >

> > > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> > > details

> > > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > > > >

> > > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> > > have

> > > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > Diane Preves

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > > > comments -can't resist

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > > > afford

> > > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> > > nice

> > > > > socialist

> > > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > > > uniforms . .

> > > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > > > tend to

> > > > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> > > work

> > > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> > > pay

> > > > > extra for

> > > > > the right.

> > > > >

> > > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> > > denim to

> > > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > > > started out

> > > > > with!

> > > > >

> > > > > Jan ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > > > doesn't

> > > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > > > individuality.

> > > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > > > why they

> > > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> > > protecting our

> > > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> > > what

> > > > > our

> > > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> > > bill

> > > > > wasn't about

> > > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> > > an

> > > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > > > >

> > > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > Diane,

> > > > >

> > > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > > > grandchildren

> > > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > > > made a

> > > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > > > wear denim one

> > > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > > > money

> > > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> > > The

> > > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > > > school he was so

> > > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> > > over

> > > > > $600.

> > > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > > > from the

> > > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > > > to teach

> > > > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > > > >

> > > > > Madalyn

> > > > >

> > > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > > > (Mountain Time)

> > > > > Fax:

> > > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > > > >

> > > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > > > start

> > > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > > > ~Carl Bard

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

and given that I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (GHI for out pt service) - it is a

GREAT coverage! What the Gov is offering is an HMO, AKA Medicare/Medicaid-like

program. Meaning - far from the quality of BCBS. Check how many good MDs, with

good credentials, experience and affiliation with the best hospitals nation-wide

are accepting it Vs. BCBS. It covered my orthoscopic Sx few years ago at the

hospital of Joint Dz with one of the top surgeons in NYC. And I had it done

within 2 wks (only bc I couldn't do it sooner!!) of the Dx. If I hadn't have it

- I would have had to wait for approval from Medicaid (for example) for 2 wks

just for me to go to MRI, then another 4 wks to approve Sx and another 6 wks to

approve my PT post op. Meanwhile - my knee would have been worsen, and after

op, waiting for PT approval would create scar tissues that will make it longer

to heel and possibly would not heel 100% bc I started PT too late and not right

after Sx as I did and they would approve only certain # of PT sessions. After

that - you are doomed.

So what your relative has is a great coverage and me and you are the ones paying

for it.Did he thank you lately for what you pay for him? that now he will give

you less then that?

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: Milestonemn@...

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:54:03 -0400

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Just to clarify, with a relative on Capitol Hill, I can tell you first hand

the Congress and White House have a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan The other

plan that was referenced ended in the late 70's

In a message dated 4/8/2010 10:17:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

pcharney@... writes:

Merav,

Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

help with breastfeeding.

Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

prices available in Canada.

Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

(as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

she would be politely turned away.

I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

towards the ideal.

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

>

> If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> > To: rd-usa

> > From: pcharney@...

> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

> >

> > Madalyn,

> >

> > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> As a

> > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> continue

> > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> >

> > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> ability

> > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > thought I had.

> >

> > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> are in

> > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> whatnot in

> > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> what

> > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> lines,

> > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> event.

> >

> > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> information

> > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

and given that I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (GHI for out pt service) - it is a

GREAT coverage! What the Gov is offering is an HMO, AKA Medicare/Medicaid-like

program. Meaning - far from the quality of BCBS. Check how many good MDs, with

good credentials, experience and affiliation with the best hospitals nation-wide

are accepting it Vs. BCBS. It covered my orthoscopic Sx few years ago at the

hospital of Joint Dz with one of the top surgeons in NYC. And I had it done

within 2 wks (only bc I couldn't do it sooner!!) of the Dx. If I hadn't have it

- I would have had to wait for approval from Medicaid (for example) for 2 wks

just for me to go to MRI, then another 4 wks to approve Sx and another 6 wks to

approve my PT post op. Meanwhile - my knee would have been worsen, and after

op, waiting for PT approval would create scar tissues that will make it longer

to heel and possibly would not heel 100% bc I started PT too late and not right

after Sx as I did and they would approve only certain # of PT sessions. After

that - you are doomed.

So what your relative has is a great coverage and me and you are the ones paying

for it.Did he thank you lately for what you pay for him? that now he will give

you less then that?

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: Milestonemn@...

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:54:03 -0400

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Just to clarify, with a relative on Capitol Hill, I can tell you first hand

the Congress and White House have a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan The other

plan that was referenced ended in the late 70's

In a message dated 4/8/2010 10:17:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

pcharney@... writes:

Merav,

Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

help with breastfeeding.

Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

prices available in Canada.

Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

(as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

she would be politely turned away.

I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

towards the ideal.

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

>

> If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

> from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

> operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

> system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

> citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

> is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

> Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

> because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

> hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

> a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> > To: rd-usa

> > From: pcharney@...

> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments -can't resist

> >

> > Madalyn,

> >

> > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

> As a

> > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

> > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

> continue

> > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

> > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

> >

> > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

> ability

> > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

> > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

> > thought I had.

> >

> > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

> are in

> > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

> > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

> whatnot in

> > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

> > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

> > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

> what

> > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

> > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

> > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

> > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

> > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

> > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

> > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

> lines,

> > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

> event.

> >

> > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

> information

> > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

> > > have joined in this thread.

> > >

> > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

> that

> > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

> > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

> > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

> > >

> > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

> homeless

> > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

> > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

> the

> > > depleted nutritional state they do.

> > >

> > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

> > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

> > > satisfying.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > To: rd-usa

> > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

> > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

> > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

> > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

> > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

> details

> > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

> > >

> > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

> have

> > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

> > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

> > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

> > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Diane Preves

> > >

> > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > > comments -can't resist

> > >

> > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

> > >

> > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

> > > afford

> > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

> nice

> > > socialist

> > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

> > > uniforms . .

> > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

> > > tend to

> > > strive to become more of an individual.

> > >

> > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

> work

> > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

> pay

> > > extra for

> > > the right.

> > >

> > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

> denim to

> > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

> > > started out

> > > with!

> > >

> > > Jan ;-)

> > >

> > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

> > > doesn't

> > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

> > > individuality.

> > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

> > > why they

> > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

> protecting our

> > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

> what

> > > our

> > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

> bill

> > > wasn't about

> > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

> an

> > > informed vet if you want more details.)

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Diane,

> > >

> > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

> > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

> > > grandchildren

> > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

> > > made a

> > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

> > > wear denim one

> > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

> > > money

> > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

> The

> > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

> > > school he was so

> > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

> over

> > > $600.

> > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

> of

> > > the

> > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

> > > from the

> > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

> > > to teach

> > > their children what you have taught yours.

> > >

> > > Madalyn

> > >

> > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

> > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

> > > Director of Medical Nutrition

> > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

> > > (Mountain Time)

> > > Fax:

> > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

> > >

> > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

> > > start

> > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

> > > ~Carl Bard

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

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