Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't resist

April 10, 2010

A HUGE problem is that most of the jobs that lower middle class or poor

people hold don't offer health insurance. In this climate, many people are

working multiple part time jobs that don't offer health insurance to their

employees..... so for them to provide it for a family, they have to buy it

on the open market. You don't think health insurance companies are going to

take advantagE? You don't think they're gonna hold out for every single

penny they can make?

You can't lump all 21-26 year olds as not wanting to buy health insurance.

I'd say most of them do want it but have to make hard choices as to what

they can purchase? $600/mo for health insurance or a rent payment. Add a

family into that.... Again, not all jobs are providing health insurance at

all.

Personally, the govt requires people to purchase auto insurance.... not all

do, but if I get into an accident with a person that doesn't have any

insurance, either I end up paying for it, or perhaps the govt with no fault

insurance. I think that's very similar to what this law is trying to

accomplish.

>

> This is great but you didn't respond to some questions I raised:What if

> your mother didn't like the PT/OT she got? what if she didn't like her

> PCP/cardiologist/whichever specialist? would she have to wait a " cooling "

> period before she sees another one? Could she go to ANY doctor or are there

> doctors that would not accept her HMO? So maybe she is lucky to have an MD

> that she likes and trust who takes HMO but I am sure her choices are limited

> Vs. PPO. Again, it doesn't mean HMO doesn't give coverage but it takes

> bureaucracy to get it, more then it does with PPO.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> To: rd-usa

> From: mffrd10019@...

> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:49:12 -0700

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> Again, I urge you not to dump all HMO's into the 'bad care' pile. My

> mother sees the doctors she wants to see, and as I said she doesn't wait for

> the referral to be sent, she goes to the office and picks it up and then

> goes to the specialist. She waits no longer for an appointment than I do and

> I have the old fashioned 80/20 insurance. After her fall in September, and

> 3+ weeks in a rehab, where she had PT and OT everyday, she got a referral

> for PT after discharge. When the Rx was finished she called her PCP and told

> her that she needed more PT..the next week she was back in PT...she is still

> going and it is still covered by her HMO...I think that twice a week PT for

> 6+ months is pretty good care. The therapist told her this week that he

> believes she has gotten all she will get from PT and after next week she

> should continue the exercises at home and call them if she feels she needs

> more.

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa <rd-usa >

>

> Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 8:13:54 PM

>

> Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> I have good reason to believe ALL HMO are bad bc all doctors says so and

> pts are not getting the best care they could get with a PPO.YOu said it -

> YOur mom needs a referral. Let me ask you even more - what if she got a

> referral to a specialist, and she didn't like it?She might have to wait a

> " cooling " period to be able to get a referral to another one? What if she

> wanted a 2nd opinion? and G-d forbid if she has an urgent matter, not life

> threatening but lets say exacerbation of CHF and she wants to see another

> cardiologist then her current - you can't really wait....just to name a

> few. For every MRI you have to wait couple of wks for approval....With my

> PPO I had an MRI within 24 hr (and that was for knee pain, before even

> seeing my specialist, bc my PCP wanted to make sure I go with results, not

> w/o), saw a sepecialist within a wk and had my orthoscopy done in 2 wks, had

> PT for 4-6 wks (I didn't need more, thanks to yoga). Not to mention, my PCP

> gave

>

> me 2 names of specialists. I didn't like the first one and I got an

> appointment with the other one within days.YOu don't get that with HMO. BUt

> yes, again, any HMO is better then nothing.

>

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

>

> To: rd-usa

>

> From: mffrd10019@...

>

> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:45:51 -0700

>

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> Merav,

>

> Please do not lump all HMO plans in one negative pile. My 97 yr old mother

> is in an HMO and gets excellent care from excellent and caring physicians.

> Her only complaint is having to get a referral from her PCP each time she

> needs to see the Dermatologist, Cardiologist, Urologist, Ophthalmologist.

> She is impatient and usually goes to the PCP office to pick up the referral

> herself instead of waiting for the office to fax it to the other doctors.

> She insists on being taken care of and she is.

>

> Madalyn

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: rd-usa

>

> Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 4:23:34 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> NO one says your coverage will change. You get to keep what you have.

>

> There wasn't even a gov't plan included in the legislation.

>

> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Merav Levi <meravlsmsn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > and given that I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (GHI for out pt service) -

> it

>

> > is a GREAT coverage! What the Gov is offering is an HMO, AKA

>

> > Medicare/Medicaid- like program. Meaning - far from the quality of BCBS.

>

> > Check how many good MDs, with good credentials, experience and

> affiliation

>

> > with the best hospitals nation-wide are accepting it Vs. BCBS. It covered

> my

>

> > orthoscopic Sx few years ago at the hospital of Joint Dz with one of the

> top

>

> > surgeons in NYC. And I had it done within 2 wks (only bc I couldn't do it

>

> > sooner!!) of the Dx. If I hadn't have it - I would have had to wait for

>

> > approval from Medicaid (for example) for 2 wks just for me to go to MRI,

>

> > then another 4 wks to approve Sx and another 6 wks to approve my PT post

> op.

>

> > Meanwhile - my knee would have been worsen, and after op, waiting for PT

>

> > approval would create scar tissues that will make it longer to heel and

>

> > possibly would not heel 100% bc I started PT too late and not right

> after

>

> > Sx as I did and they would approve only certain # of PT sessions. After

> that

>

> > - you are doomed.

>

> > So what your relative has is a great coverage and me and you are the ones

>

> > paying for it.Did he thank you lately for what you pay for him? that now

> he

>

> > will give you less then that?

>

> > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www. linkedin. com/in/meravlevi

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> > From: Milestonemn@ aol.com

>

> > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:54:03 -0400

>

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

>

> > -can't resist

>

> >

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> > Just to clarify, with a relative on Capitol Hill, I can tell you first

> hand

>

> >

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> > the Congress and White House have a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan The

> other

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> >

>

> > plan that was referenced ended in the late 70's

>

> >

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> >

>

> >

>

> > In a message dated 4/8/2010 10:17:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

>

> >

>

> > pcharneymac (DOT) com writes:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Merav,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

>

> >

>

> > healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

>

> >

>

> > but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

>

> >

>

> > arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

>

> >

>

> > system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

>

> >

>

> > detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

>

> >

>

> > a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

>

> >

>

> > I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

>

> >

>

> > support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

>

> >

>

> > their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

>

> >

>

> > help with breastfeeding.

>

> >

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> >

>

> >

>

> > Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

>

> >

>

> > with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

>

> >

>

> > Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

>

> >

>

> > start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

>

> >

>

> > navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

>

> >

>

> > national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

>

> >

>

> > It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

>

> >

>

> > depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

>

> >

>

> > upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

>

> >

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> > Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

>

> >

>

> > prices available in Canada.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

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> > Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

>

> >

>

> > who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

>

> >

>

> > (as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

>

> >

>

> > country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

>

> >

>

> > the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

>

> >

>

> > here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

>

> >

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> > she would be politely turned away.

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> >

>

> >

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> >

>

> > I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

>

> >

>

> > probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

>

> >

>

> > There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

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> >

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> >

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> >

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> > I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

>

> >

>

> > Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

>

> >

>

> > because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

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> >

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> > where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

>

> >

>

> > towards the ideal.

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> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Pam Charney

>

> >

>

> > pcharneymac (DOT) com

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> > >

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> >

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> > > If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

>

> >

>

> > > from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

>

> >

>

> > > operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

>

> >

>

> > > system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

>

> >

>

> > > citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

>

> >

>

> > > is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

>

> >

>

> > > Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

>

> >

>

> > > because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

>

> >

>

> > > hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

>

> >

>

> > > a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www. linkedin. com/in/meravlevi

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > > > From: pcharneymac (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > > > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

>

> >

>

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> >

>

> > > comments -can't resist

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Madalyn,

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

>

> >

>

> > > As a

>

> >

>

> > > > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

>

> >

>

> > > > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

>

> >

>

> > > continue

>

> >

>

> > > > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

>

> >

>

> > > > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

>

> >

>

> > > ability

>

> >

>

> > > > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

>

> >

>

> > > > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

>

> >

>

> > > > thought I had.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

>

> >

>

> > > are in

>

> >

>

> > > > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

>

> >

>

> > > > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

>

> >

>

> > > whatnot in

>

> >

>

> > > > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

>

> >

>

> > > > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

>

> >

>

> > > > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

>

> >

>

> > > what

>

> >

>

> > > > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

>

> >

>

> > > > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

>

> >

>

> > > > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

>

> >

>

> > > > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

>

> >

>

> > > > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

>

> >

>

> > > > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

>

> >

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> > > > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

>

> >

>

> > > lines,

>

> >

>

> > > > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

>

> >

>

> > > event.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

>

> >

>

> > > information

>

> >

>

> > > > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Warmest regards,

>

> >

>

> > > > pam

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Pam Charney

>

> >

>

> > > > pcharneymac (DOT) com

>

> >

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> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > >

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> >

>

> > > > > Diane,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

>

> >

>

> > > > > have joined in this thread.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

>

> >

>

> > > that

>

> >

>

> > > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

>

> >

>

> > > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

>

> >

>

> > > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

>

> >

>

> > > homeless

>

> >

>

> > > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

>

> >

>

> > > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

>

> >

>

> > > the

>

> >

>

> > > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

>

> >

>

> > > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

>

> >

>

> > > > > satisfying.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Madalyn

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

>

> >

>

> > > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. " <newlife4health@ aol.com>

>

> >

>

> > > > > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

>

> >

>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> >

>

> > > > > comments -can't resist

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

>

> >

>

> > > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

>

> >

>

> > > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

>

> >

>

> > > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

>

> >

>

> > > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

>

> >

>

> > > details

>

> >

>

> > > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

>

> >

>

> > > have

>

> >

>

> > > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

>

> >

>

> > > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

>

> >

>

> > > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Respectfully,

>

> >

>

> > > > > Diane Preves

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> >

>

> > > > > comments -can't resist

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

>

> >

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> > > > > afford

>

> >

>

> > > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

>

> >

>

> > > nice

>

> >

>

> > > > > socialist

>

> >

>

> > > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

>

> >

>

> > > > > uniforms . .

>

> >

>

> > > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

>

> >

>

> > > > > tend to

>

> >

>

> > > > > strive to become more of an individual.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

>

> >

>

> > > work

>

> >

>

> > > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

>

> >

>

> > > pay

>

> >

>

> > > > > extra for

>

> >

>

> > > > > the right.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

>

> >

>

> > > denim to

>

> >

>

> > > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

>

> >

>

> > > > > started out

>

> >

>

> > > > > with!

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Jan ;-)

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

>

> >

>

> > > > > doesn't

>

> >

>

> > > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

>

> >

>

> > > > > individuality.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

>

> >

>

> > > > > why they

>

> >

>

> > > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

>

> >

>

> > > protecting our

>

> >

>

> > > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

>

> >

>

> > > what

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> >

>

> > > > > our

>

> >

>

> > > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

>

> >

>

> > > bill

>

> >

>

> > > > > wasn't about

>

> >

>

> > > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

>

> >

>

> > > an

>

> >

>

> > > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

>

> >

>

> > > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Diane,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

>

> >

>

> > > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

>

> >

>

> > > > > grandchildren

>

> >

>

> > > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

>

> >

>

> > > > > made a

>

> >

>

> > > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

>

> >

>

> > > > > wear denim one

>

> >

>

> > > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

>

> >

>

> > > > > money

>

> >

>

> > > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

>

> >

>

> > > The

>

> >

>

> > > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim

> in

>

> >

>

> > > > > school he was so

>

> >

>

> > > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

>

> >

>

> > > over

>

> >

>

> > > > > $600.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

>

> >

>

> > > of

>

> >

>

> > > > > the

>

> >

>

> > > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

>

> >

>

> > > > > from the

>

> >

>

> > > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

>

> >

>

> > > > > to teach

>

> >

>

> > > > > their children what you have taught yours.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Madalyn

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

>

> >

>

> > > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

>

> >

>

> > > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

>

> >

>

> > > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

>

> >

>

> > > > > (Mountain Time)

>

> >

>

> > > > > Fax:

>

> >

>

> > > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

>

> >

>

> > > > > start

>

> >

>

> > > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

>

> >

>

> > > > > ~Carl Bard

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

April 10, 2010

I can specifically address the 'what if your mother didn't like the PT/OT she

got?' She did not like the first place she went to and called her PCP and

complained. She was referred to another PT the following week. She did not like

the first dermatologist she was sent to...she now sees someone else. Yes, in

terms of ultimate choice of providers, it is not like my insurance. She has to

see doctors who are on her plan. She has the option to pay privately for a

doctor she wanted who was not on her plan. For my mother the HMO is working

quite well. She has excellent prescription drug coverage.

I was travelling when she was discharged from the hospital to a rehab. I arrived

the next day. The nursing home/rehab she was in was abominable. She had chosen

it at the recommendation of a friend whose husband had been there. (I jokingly

said that her friend must not like her husband) The PT had no equipment, the

place was very dirty, ants all over, the meals embarrassing to see served.The

residents lined up in the halls. She was not permitted to get out of bed

without assistance and had to void during the night. No response to her call

light. She soiled the sheets. 16 hours later the sheets were still not changed.

I made a phone call and the next day she was in the best rehab in her area. I

would hope that my mothers experiences are not unique. She is a very demanding

woman and will not tolerate not being heard and addressed. As Sy Syms says 'an

educated consumer is our best customer'.

________________________________

To: rd-usa <rd-usa >

Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 8:40:14 AM

Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

This is great but you didn't respond to some questions I raised:What if your

mother didn't like the PT/OT she got? what if she didn't like her

PCP/cardiologist/whichever specialist? would she have to wait a " cooling " period

before she sees another one? Could she go to ANY doctor or are there doctors

that would not accept her HMO? So maybe she is lucky to have an MD that she

likes and trust who takes HMO but I am sure her choices are limited Vs. PPO.

Again, it doesn't mean HMO doesn't give coverage but it takes bureaucracy to

get it, more then it does with PPO.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: mffrd10019@...

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:49:12 -0700

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Again, I urge you not to dump all HMO's into the 'bad care' pile. My

mother sees the doctors she wants to see, and as I said she doesn't wait for the

referral to be sent, she goes to the office and picks it up and then goes to the

specialist. She waits no longer for an appointment than I do and I have the old

fashioned 80/20 insurance. After her fall in September, and 3+ weeks in a

rehab, where she had PT and OT everyday, she got a referral for PT after

discharge. When the Rx was finished she called her PCP and told her that she

needed more PT..the next week she was back in PT...she is still going and it is

still covered by her HMO...I think that twice a week PT for 6+ months is pretty

good care. The therapist told her this week that he believes she has gotten all

she will get from PT and after next week she should continue the exercises at

home and call them if she feels she needs more.

________________________________

To: rd-usa <rd-usa >

Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 8:13:54 PM

Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

I have good reason to believe ALL HMO are bad bc all doctors says so and pts are

not getting the best care they could get with a PPO.YOu said it - YOur mom

needs a referral. Let me ask you even more - what if she got a referral to a

specialist, and she didn't like it?She might have to wait a " cooling " period to

be able to get a referral to another one? What if she wanted a 2nd opinion? and

G-d forbid if she has an urgent matter, not life threatening but lets say

exacerbation of CHF and she wants to see another cardiologist then her current -

you can't really wait....just to name a few. For every MRI you have to wait

couple of wks for approval....With my PPO I had an MRI within 24 hr (and that

was for knee pain, before even seeing my specialist, bc my PCP wanted to make

sure I go with results, not w/o), saw a sepecialist within a wk and had my

orthoscopy done in 2 wks, had PT for 4-6 wks (I didn't need more, thanks to

yoga). Not to mention, my PCP gave

me 2 names of specialists. I didn't like the first one and I got an appointment

with the other one within days.YOu don't get that with HMO. BUt yes, again, any

HMO is better then nothing.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: mffrd10019@...

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:45:51 -0700

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

Merav,

Please do not lump all HMO plans in one negative pile. My 97 yr old mother is in

an HMO and gets excellent care from excellent and caring physicians. Her only

complaint is having to get a referral from her PCP each time she needs to see

the Dermatologist, Cardiologist, Urologist, Ophthalmologist. She is impatient

and usually goes to the PCP office to pick up the referral herself instead of

waiting for the office to fax it to the other doctors. She insists on being

taken care of and she is.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 4:23:34 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

NO one says your coverage will change. You get to keep what you have.

There wasn't even a gov't plan included in the legislation.

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Merav Levi <meravlsmsn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> and given that I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (GHI for out pt service) - it

> is a GREAT coverage! What the Gov is offering is an HMO, AKA

> Medicare/Medicaid- like program. Meaning - far from the quality of BCBS.

> Check how many good MDs, with good credentials, experience and affiliation

> with the best hospitals nation-wide are accepting it Vs. BCBS. It covered my

> orthoscopic Sx few years ago at the hospital of Joint Dz with one of the top

> surgeons in NYC. And I had it done within 2 wks (only bc I couldn't do it

> sooner!!) of the Dx. If I hadn't have it - I would have had to wait for

> approval from Medicaid (for example) for 2 wks just for me to go to MRI,

> then another 4 wks to approve Sx and another 6 wks to approve my PT post op.

> Meanwhile - my knee would have been worsen, and after op, waiting for PT

> approval would create scar tissues that will make it longer to heel and

> possibly would not heel 100% bc I started PT too late and not right after

> Sx as I did and they would approve only certain # of PT sessions. After that

> - you are doomed.

> So what your relative has is a great coverage and me and you are the ones

> paying for it.Did he thank you lately for what you pay for him? that now he

> will give you less then that?

> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www. linkedin. com/in/meravlevi

>

> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> From: Milestonemn@ aol.com

> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:54:03 -0400

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> -can't resist

>

> Just to clarify, with a relative on Capitol Hill, I can tell you first hand

>

> the Congress and White House have a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan The other

>

> plan that was referenced ended in the late 70's

>

> In a message dated 4/8/2010 10:17:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

>

> pcharneymac (DOT) com writes:

>

> Merav,

>

> Each of the industrialized countries has a different method to manage

>

> healthcare. Great Britain has the NHS. It's loved and hated by all;

>

> but any time talk has begun to change or abolish it, folks get up in

>

> arms. Don't take away their health care! France has an interesting

>

> system that is a mix of public and private; again, there are

>

> detractors, but when talk begins to do away with it, folks reply with

>

> a resounding " No way " . Australia also has a mix of private and public.

>

> I do know that in Australia new moms have home visits and all sorts of

>

> support in place for the first few weeks at home, all courtesy of

>

> their health plans. Try to convince an insurer here that new moms need

>

> help with breastfeeding.

>

> Now the former USSR being former, I can't comment. Our relationship

>

> with Canada is interesting. First, physicians tend to like the

>

> Canadian system; here, if you are going to be in private practice, you

>

> start with a group of employees who have the one and only task -- to

>

> navigate insurance plans. In the Canadian system, practices under the

>

> national plan sometimes have a part time employee who does that task.

>

> It's simpler. Now folks living near the borders go back and forth

>

> depending on citizenship, needs, and ability to pay. When I lived in

>

> upstate NY, there were bus lines that did weekly " medication " trips to

>

> Canada to allow folks to purchase their medications at the much lower

>

> prices available in Canada.

>

> Typically the folks who come here from abroad for treatment are those

>

> who can afford it. That's right, if they want say, a liver transplant

>

> (as a Saudi prince did), and don't quite meet criteria in their own

>

> country, they put together a suitcase full of cash and fly on over. If

>

> the average Saudi citizen, lacking such resources, were to fly on over

>

> here for a transplant and did not arrive with a suitcase of cash, he/

>

> she would be politely turned away.

>

> I'm sure we all have stories that support our views; there are

>

> probably examples and n of 1 case studies that we all have to share.

>

> There's a saying " Anecdotes don't equal data " .

>

> I'd love for all of us to have the same coverage that Congress has.

>

> Rather than deny adequate health care to over 40 million human beings

>

> because I can't have what Congress has, I'd rather start at a point

>

> where we begin to provide health care to those who need it and work

>

> towards the ideal.

>

> Pam Charney

>

> pcharneymac (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > If this bill is such a step in the right direction - how come people

>

> > from all over the world are coming to the USA for major treatments/

>

> > operations?How come, even the Canadian PM came here for Sx if the

>

> > system she has is so wonderful?How come - if you ask every previous

>

> > citizen of the former USSR will tell you how bad it was? And if it

>

> > is so great - why the President and senators and other officials in

>

> > Capitol HIll will have a different coverage?China is another story

>

> > because they rely more on acupuncture then on western medicine.I

>

> > hope, I really hope, I am wrong - but I think we will all be up for

>

> > a rude awakening after 2014.

>

> >

>

> > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www. linkedin. com/in/meravlevi

>

> >

>

> > > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> > > From: pcharneymac (DOT) com

>

> > > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:37:01 -0700

>

> > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> > comments -can't resist

>

> > >

>

> > > Madalyn,

>

> > >

>

> > > Agree whole heartedly. The bill is a step in the right direction.

>

> > As a

>

> > > moral and ethical nation we have an obligation to make sure that all

>

> > > have access to the care they need. Unless we do that, we will

>

> > continue

>

> > > to provide inadequate care at exorbitant prices and get suboptimal

>

> > > outcomes. I can't accept that as the best we can do.

>

> > >

>

> > > I have to admit to a certain amount of confusion regarding the

>

> > ability

>

> > > of some to equate school uniforms to socialism and the rest of the

>

> > > ills of the world, but perhaps I just don't have the imagination I

>

> > > thought I had.

>

> > >

>

> > > I retain my firm belief that the vast majority of those in need

>

> > are in

>

> > > that predicament for reasons beyond their control and would most

>

> > > certainly not be out to scam the government for that $70 or

>

> > whatnot in

>

> > > aid they'd get. I can't look at others and make judgements without

>

> > > knowing the facts. For example, I've worked with kids who have

>

> > > multiple medical conditions. When well-managed, you'd never know

>

> > what

>

> > > their families go through to ensure that their child has the best

>

> > > possible life. So, on the surface you'd see a child who looks

>

> > > perfectly normal. However, that child might be followed by several

>

> > > specialists, and have multiple medical conditions. When I worked in

>

> > > South Chicago I once commented to our clinic social worker that my

>

> > > patients had better cell phones than I did. Well, it turns out that

>

> > > many folks had cell phones because they were cheaper than land

>

> > lines,

>

> > > didn't require an up front deposit and could be a pay as you go

>

> > event.

>

> > >

>

> > > So, I refuse to make snap judgements unless I have enough

>

> > information

>

> > > to come to a reasonable conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > > Warmest regards,

>

> > > pam

>

> > >

>

> > > Pam Charney

>

> > > pcharneymac (DOT) com

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > > Diane,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

>

> > > > have joined in this thread.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

>

> > that

>

> > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

>

> > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

>

> > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

>

> > homeless

>

> > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

>

> > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

>

> > the

>

> > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

>

> > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

>

> > > > satisfying.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Madalyn

>

> > > >

>

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

>

> > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. " <newlife4health@ aol.com>

>

> > > > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

>

> > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> > > > comments -can't resist

>

> > > >

>

> > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

>

> > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

>

> > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

>

> > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

>

> > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

>

> > details

>

> > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

>

> > have

>

> > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

>

> > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

>

> > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

>

> > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully,

>

> > > > Diane Preves

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>

> > > > comments -can't resist

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

>

> > > > afford

>

> > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

>

> > nice

>

> > > > socialist

>

> > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

>

> > > > uniforms . .

>

> > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

>

> > > > tend to

>

> > > > strive to become more of an individual.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

>

> > work

>

> > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

>

> > pay

>

> > > > extra for

>

> > > > the right.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

>

> > denim to

>

> > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

>

> > > > started out

>

> > > > with!

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Jan ;-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

>

> > > > doesn't

>

> > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

>

> > > > individuality.

>

> > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

>

> > > > why they

>

> > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

>

> > protecting our

>

> > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

>

> > what

>

> > > > our

>

> > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

>

> > bill

>

> > > > wasn't about

>

> > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

>

> > an

>

> > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

>

> > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Diane,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

>

> > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

>

> > > > grandchildren

>

> > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

>

> > > > made a

>

> > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

>

> > > > wear denim one

>

> > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

>

> > > > money

>

> > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

>

> > The

>

> > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim in

>

> > > > school he was so

>

> > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

>

> > over

>

> > > > $600.

>

> > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

>

> > of

>

> > > > the

>

> > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

>

> > > > from the

>

> > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

>

> > > > to teach

>

> > > > their children what you have taught yours.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Madalyn

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

>

> > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

>

> > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

>

> > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

>

> > > > (Mountain Time)

>

> > > > Fax:

>

> > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

>

> > > >

>

> > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

>

> > > > start

>

> > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

>

> > > > ~Carl Bard

>

> > > >

>

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> > > >

>

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

April 10, 2010

From what I understand, the government will require people to purchase health

insurance, and the prices won't necessarily be any cheaper. I don't see how

that is going to solve any problems, only create new ones for the people that

are currently choosing not to buy it for whatever reason.

The government is not good at " business, " and I wish it would stay out of my

" business. " Look at the mess it has made with the post office and most of it's

other programs that are bankrupt. Health care will be another one. The

government couldn't even run it's senate cafeteria that was in the red for 40

years. They finally (and begrudgingly) gave the cafeteria over to a private

business.

I heard yesterday that 47% of Americans are now NOT paying income tax.... so

1/2 of us are carrying the other half. Things just can't keep heading in this

direction.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Diane,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > I certainly appreciate your comments and those of the others who

>

> >

>

> > > > > have joined in this thread.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > The Health Care Reform Bill is far from perfect, but I believe

>

> >

>

> > > that

>

> >

>

> > > > > it is a step in the right direction. The status of health care in

>

> >

>

> > > > > this country is shameful. We are supposedly one of the richest

>

> >

>

> > > > > nations and yet we have so many poor health outcomes.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > The population I work with are mostly indigent and many are

>

> >

>

> > > homeless

>

> >

>

> > > > > and have not had access to good or adequate or early intervention

>

> >

>

> > > > > health care, if they had they might not arrive at my facility in

>

> >

>

> > > the

>

> >

>

> > > > > depleted nutritional state they do.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > I did not read contention in your emails. I do agree that emails

>

> >

>

> > > > > leave much to be desired and face to face conversations are more

>

> >

>

> > > > > satisfying.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Madalyn

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

>

> >

>

> > > > > From: " Diane Preves M.S., R.D. " <newlife4health@ aol.com>

>

> >

>

> > > > > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

>

> >

>

> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 9:24:19 PM

>

> >

>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

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> > > > > comments -can't resist

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> > > > >

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> > > > > But the children received a reward for their optional contribution

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> > > > > to those less fortunate whereas those who don't participate in

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> > > > > mandatory healthcare will be penalized. I'm sure the students are

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> > > > > learning many good things from the project and in their school. No

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> > > > > argument there. But as usual, I believe the devil IS in the

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> > > details

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> > > > > and that is what makes the healthcare reform so questionable.

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> > > > >

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> > > > > You make many good points and I appreciate the conversation you

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> > > have

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> > > > > agreed to have here, Madalyn. E-mail messaging leaves much to be

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> > > > > desired, so I hope I have not seemed contentious to your points.

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> > > > > Just contributing to an important conversation with many, many

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> > > > > facets to it. I am appreciating everyone's input.

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> > > > > Respectfully,

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> > > > > Diane Preves

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> > > > >

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> > > > > Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

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> > > > > comments -can't resist

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> > > > > Okay, can't resist. . . ;-)

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> > > > >

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> > > > > Aren't uniforms about equalizing all the kids - those that can't

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> > > > > afford

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> > > > > expensive clothing aren't set apart from those that can. . . a

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> > > nice

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> > > > > socialist

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> > > > > thing. . . equalize all the students/citizenshi p by requiring

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> > > > > uniforms . .

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> > > > > . people judge based on personality rather than clothing. You'll

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> > > > > tend to

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> > > > > strive to become more of an individual.

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> > > > >

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> > > > > Your granddaughter already has the capitalism mindset right. . .

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> > > work

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> > > > > hard, pay for what you want - if you want to wear denim, you can

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> > > pay

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> > > > > extra for

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> > > > > the right.

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> > > > >

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> > > > > The poor kids that can't afford the $5 aren't allowed to wear

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> > > denim to

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> > > > > school. Work hard to get what we want . . . just the exact post I

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> > > > > started out

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> > > > > with!

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> > > > > Jan ;-)

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> > > > >

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> > > > > PS. Truly, if you look at the history of the world, socialism just

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> > > > > doesn't

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> > > > > work. Never has. It breeds tyranical governments and limits

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> > > > > individuality.

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> > > > > Think it works? - ask people from China, Venezuala, Cuba or Russia

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> > > > > why they

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> > > > > want to come to the US. Millions of veterans have died

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> > > protecting our

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> > > > > constitution so we wouldn't have to be socialists. But, that's

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> > > what

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> > > > > our

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> > > > > current admin is trying to lead us into. Again, the heatlh care

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> > > bill

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> > > > > wasn't about

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> > > > > health - it was about government control of the people. (Talk to

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> > > an

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> > > > > informed vet if you want more details.)

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> > > > >

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> > > > > In a message dated 4/5/2010 12:46:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

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> > > > > mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com writes:

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> > > > > Diane,

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> > > > >

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> > > > > I read that you have taught your children the importance of being

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> > > > > responsible citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my

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> > > > > grandchildren

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> > > > > being given the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just

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> > > > > made a

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> > > > > proposal to the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to

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> > > > > wear denim one

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> > > > > day (they wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the

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> > > > > money

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> > > > > collected going to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.

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> > > The

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> > > > > Headmaster responded that although he was against wearing denim

> in

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> > > > > school he was so

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> > > > > impressed with her proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised

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> > > over

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> > > > > $600.

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> > > > > Gratefully there are future generations who will be at the front

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> > > of

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> > > > > the

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> > > > > line teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were

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> > > > > from the

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> > > > > 'me' instant gratification generation and did not have the ability

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> > > > > to teach

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> > > > > their children what you have taught yours.

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> > > > >

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> > > > > Madalyn

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> >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

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> > > > > Consultant, Writer, Speaker

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> > > > > Director of Medical Nutrition

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> > > > > Signet Diagnostic Corporation

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> >

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> > > > > (Mountain Time)

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> > > > > Fax:

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> > > > > DineRight4aol (DOT) com

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> > > > >

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> > > > > " Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can

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> > > > > start

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> > > > > from now and make a brand new ending. "

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> > > > > ~Carl Bard

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> >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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> > > > >

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> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

April 11, 2010

I am glad to hear your mother was able to change practitioners/facility to meet

her needs.As you said - this HMO works for your mother. Good for you good for

her.I can tell you that with a previous employer I had HMO and I had to wait

about 3 months to change PCP or specialists. MRI approval was 2 weeks. Many

doctors didn't accept it and it was hard to find a good one.So - OK - maybe

not all HMO born equal. and maybe it depends on the area

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: mffrd10019@...

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:53:00 -0700

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments -can't

resist

I can specifically address the 'what if your mother didn't like the PT/OT

she got?' She did not like the first place she went to and called her PCP and