Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

[Guest guest]

Pam,

You hae expressed my feelings/opinions so clearly. THANK YOU and I agree, we can

disagree.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:06:59 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

,

If I remember correctly, you are employed by the state. I see you have 

a .gov email address. I find it a bit self-serving (as in " I got mine, 

too bad for you " ) that you claim to dislike state programs so much yet 

you are eligible for many perks that those of us who don't work for 

the government aren't as fortunate to have.

To be honest, I am incredibly disappointed in the thoughts shared by 

members of this list. You hate reform. We know that. So, what is a 

better option? To keep the system we have is not that option. To 

repeal government offered health care is not an option; so don't 

accept Medicare.... what about the military? Our troops get (gasp) 

government sponsored healthcare. As a former soldier in the US Army, I 

can say it was also outstanding care. To be honest, it was more 

efficient, cost me nothing, and quicker than in the public sector.

If you are complaining because you perceive that your current freedom 

of choice will be taken away (no, the President, senate, and/or 

congress personally will not be involved in your medical care), 

remember that your freedom of choice now is only an illusion. Your 

health care decisions are not made by you and your doctor. They're 

made by dudes in suits over at insurance headquarters and are based 

not on your health but on the bottom line. The same guys who decided 

that viagra was medically necessary but hearing aids for children with 

hearing loss were not. The CEO of my current health plan just got a $3 

million dollar bonus. And rates were increased. However, I'm lucky in 

that I have access to health are.

Chew on this, those of you who would go without insurance if you could 

(how many of you have done that?)..... that's fine as long as you stay 

healthy. Get cancer? We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars 

for your surgery, chemo and radiation. Get diabetes? Let me see, it 

costs about $300/ month, every month, just for your insulin. test 

strips are about $1 each. You'll need to be seen by your 

endocrinologist every 3-4 months. Heart disease? Ever costed out 

cardiac surgery? How many bake sales and donations do you think your 

friends and neighbors are going to have? Multiply that by the number 

of chronic illnesses they'll have as well. And, if you're all lucky to 

stay healthy, remember you could walk out the door and get hit by a 

bus. Trauma care ain't cheap. Hospitals are only obligated to make 

sure patients are stable enough for transfer, so don't think that your 

lack of insurance will carry much weight. As soon as you got a pulse 

and a blood pressure, there'll be folks trying to get you out the 

door. You can forget about rehab, nor will you be able to afford the 

durable medical equipment you need, unless you have access to a lot 

more in your account than most of us have. Remember, you won't be able 

to work, so no employer sponsored insurance.

If you don't want reform, are you happy with our standing in terms of 

health outcomes? We have the most expensive health care system in the 

world, and we are not even close to the top 10 in most outcomes. You 

can twist those statistics all you want; I know folks on this list 

have been quick to blame it all on various scapegoats, but the World 

Health Organization, no slouches when it comes to analyzing data, and 

not " owned " by liberals or anyone else, has done the crunching. We 

cost a lot and don't come close to the health care offered by 

countries that provide care from a more ethical perspective.

Remember that if you have health insurance through your employer you 

are one paycheck from not having it. There's a saying that those who 

are against reform are those who have good insurance now. I'm not 

loving the current bill either. I'm incredibly disappointed that it 

does not include a public option. That's right. I think that we as a 

moral and ethical nation should be responsible to make sure that every 

single person in this great nation has access to health care. However, 

I'm not going to dig in my heels and stomp my feet or whatnot with no 

thoughts for improving it. Rather, I'm working to make sure that we 

build on this beginning and make it better. For all of us. I've got 

mine and I'd love to stop having this argument because we all have ours.

Warmest regards,

pam

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right 

> straight from my paycheck?

>

> Dave

>

> From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On 

> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

> To: rd-usa

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill 

> comments

>

> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>

> Pat Bollinger

>

> Rowell, wrote:

> >

> >

> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] 

> On

> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill 

> comments

> >

> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when 

> the

> > time comes?

> >

> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly%40gmail.com><mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> > 

> wrote:

> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it all

> > during

> > > his day.

> > >

> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every 

> day.

> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day 

> (March

> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

> > Costco +

> > > K-Mart combined.

> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

> > Employer,

> > > and most speak English.

> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined, 

> and

> > keep in

> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought 

> bankruptcy.

> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the world.

> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906 

> are Super

> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

> > occur At a

> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5 

> Billion.).

> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

> > ground work

> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run Wal-Mart

> > to Fix

> > > the economy. T

> > >

> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

> > Republicans,

> > > EVERYONE!!

> > >

> > > To: President Obama and all 535 voting members of the 

> Legislature, It is

> > > now official you are ALL corrupt morons:

> > > * The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 

> 235 years

> > > to get it right and it is broke.

> > > * Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 75 years 

> to get

> > > it right and it is broke.

> > > * Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 72 years to 

> get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 46 years to get 

> it right;

> > > $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and 

> transferred to

> > " the

> > > poor " and they only want more.

> > > * Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 

> 45 years

> > > to get it right and they are broke.

> > > * Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 40 years to 

> get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our 

> dependence

> > > on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget

> > of $24

> > > billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 33

> > years to

> > > get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

> > >

> > > You have FAILED in every " government service " you have shoved 

> down our

> > > throats while overspending our tax dollars AND YOU WANT 

> AMERICANS TO

> > > BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE 

> SYSTEM??

> > > Mr. Bill

> > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT)  

> com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly%40gmail.com><mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> > 

> wrote:

> > >

> > >> Madlyn,

> > >>

> > >> I think it's great that your team can provide care to those who

> > really need

> > >> it and can't afford it. On the otherhand, I don't think putting 

> our

> > country

> > >> in a financial crisis to pay for this as well as taxing us even

> > more, is the

> > >> most effective way to pay for this plan.

> > >>

> > >> If we can find other dollars to pay for this, I'd be more open.

> > >>

> > >> Another problem will be less reimbursement for hospitals and loss

> > of jobs

> > >> in the heathcare industry. Many non-profit hospitals already 

> run at

> > a loss

> > >> and have begun to dig into their cash savings to continue

> > operations and

> > >> fund capital campaigns.

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Madalyn Friedberg

> > <mffrd10019yahoo (DOT) com

> > <mailto:mffrd10019%40yahoo.com><mailto:mffrd10019% 40yahoo.com>

> > >> > wrote:

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Digna,

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. I was 

> stating mine.

> > >>>

> > >>> I did not read the article as being relevant to the health care

> > bill. I

> > >>> read that some do not want to help the less fortunate and are

> > resentful

> > >>> for having the government tell us what to do. We are doing that

> > now. Our tax

> > >>> dollars are used for many social programs. As for the 

> mandatory health

> > >>> insurance that is bugging so many....we have mandatory car

> > insurance, Our

> > >>> tax dollars are used for the uninsured pool of drivers and I 

> don't

> > hear

> > >>> these same people balking about that. Medicare was condemned 

> as a

> > >>> socialist plan - just try to take medicare away from any of 

> the people

> > >>> complaining about the 'Obama Socialism " . The bill was passed and

> > in our form

> > >>> of government we now have to live with it. Learn how to 

> 'tweak' it

> > if it

> > >>> does not work, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

> > >>>

> > >>> I live with a social conscience.. I believe I have a moral and

> > >>> ethical obligation to help those less fortunate than I am. I 

> know

> > that there

> > >>> are people who take advantage of the system but I believe that

> > there are

> > >>> many fewer than you might think and that the majority who need

> > help would

> > >>> much rather help themselves if possible.

> > >>>

> > >>> I work for a company that does not charge the residents. You 

> read that

> > >>> correctly... no private insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, we

> > don't take

> > >>> their social security. We provide excellent care. We ask that 

> they

> > not be

> > >>> able to pay for private care but we do not want them to leave

> > their families

> > >>> destitute. We do not do a financial search of the applicants. We

> > have had

> > >>> less than 2% of our residents not fit our criteria in the 38 

> years

> > I have

> > >>> worked for them. And some of those were family of staff 

> members or

> > staff

> > >>> themselves. I believe that people are usually honest. We have a

> > number of

> > >>> homeless residents who would not get the care we provide 

> elsewhere.

> > >>> We rely on donations, an endowment and private income.

> > >>>

> > >>> Happy Holidays

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >>>

> > >>> From: Digna Cassens <dignacassens@ roadrunner. com

> > <mailto:dignacassens%40roadrunner.com><mailto:dignacassen

> > s%40roadrunner. com><dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <rd-usa%40yahoogrou ps.com>

> > >>> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 1:05:01 AM

> > >>>

> > >>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> > email - I

> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> > >>>

> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> > future. I for

> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the 

> American

> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> > lessons. Let's

> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the 

> terrible

> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> > Jan's must

> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could 

> ev

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

There are many of us, not the few, who are in favor of the health care reform

bill. I think that the nay sayers are just more vocal, And, yes, the bill as we

have it today will need a lot of 'tweaking'.  I am so glad it got passed, it is

a beginning.

Madalyn

 

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:31:28 PM

Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

 

I think I may be one of the few who isn't against it...not 100% for ALL

of it, but something sure needs to happen!

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com

<mailto:leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com>

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com] On Behalf

Of Jen Zingaro

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 11:14 AM

To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

Well said pam.

Also, for those of you thatare upset b/c your congressman didn't vote

based on your letters, maybe they voted based on the ones that are

pro-reform like mine.

On Monday, April 5, 2010, Pam Charney <pcharneymac (DOT) com

<mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com> > wrote:

> ,

> If I remember correctly, you are employed by the state. I see you have

> a .gov email address. I find it a bit self-serving (as in " I got mine,

> too bad for you " ) that you claim to dislike state programs so much yet

> you are eligible for many perks that those of us who don't work for

> the government aren't as fortunate to have.

>

> To be honest, I am incredibly disappointed in the thoughts shared by

> members of this list. You hate reform. We know that. So, what is a

> better option? To keep the system we have is not that option. To

> repeal government offered health care is not an option; so don't

> accept Medicare.... what about the military? Our troops get (gasp)

> government sponsored healthcare. As a former soldier in the US Army, I

> can say it was also outstanding care. To be honest, it was more

> efficient, cost me nothing, and quicker than in the public sector.

>

> If you are complaining because you perceive that your current freedom

> of choice will be taken away (no, the President, senate, and/or

> congress personally will not be involved in your medical care),

> remember that your freedom of choice now is only an illusion. Your

> health care decisions are not made by you and your doctor. They're

> made by dudes in suits over at insurance headquarters and are based

> not on your health but on the bottom line. The same guys who decided

> that viagra was medically necessary but hearing aids for children with

> hearing loss were not. The CEO of my current health plan just got a $3

> million dollar bonus. And rates were increased. However, I'm lucky in

> that I have access to health are.

>

> Chew on this, those of you who would go without insurance if you could

> (how many of you have done that?)..... that's fine as long as you stay

> healthy. Get cancer? We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars

> for your surgery, chemo and radiation. Get diabetes? Let me see, it

> costs about $300/ month, every month, just for your insulin. test

> strips are about $1 each. You'll need to be seen by your

> endocrinologist every 3-4 months. Heart disease? Ever costed out

> cardiac surgery? How many bake sales and donations do you think your

> friends and neighbors are going to have? Multiply that by the number

> of chronic illnesses they'll have as well. And, if you're all lucky to

> stay healthy, remember you could walk out the door and get hit by a

> bus. Trauma care ain't cheap. Hospitals are only obligated to make

> sure patients are stable enough for transfer, so don't think that your

> lack of insurance will carry much weight. As soon as you got a pulse

> and a blood pressure, there'll be folks trying to get you out the

> door. You can forget about rehab, nor will you be able to afford the

> durable medical equipment you need, unless you have access to a lot

> more in your account than most of us have. Remember, you won't be able

> to work, so no employer sponsored insurance.

>

> If you don't want reform, are you happy with our standing in terms of

> health outcomes? We have the most expensive health care system in the

> world, and we are not even close to the top 10 in most outcomes. You

> can twist those statistics all you want; I know folks on this list

> have been quick to blame it all on various scapegoats, but the World

> Health Organization, no slouches when it comes to analyzing data, and

> not " owned " by liberals or anyone else, has done the crunching. We

> cost a lot and don't come close to the health care offered by

> countries that provide care from a more ethical perspective.

>

> Remember that if you have health insurance through your employer you

> are one paycheck from not having it. There's a saying that those who

> are against reform are those who have good insurance now. I'm not

> loving the current bill either. I'm incredibly disappointed that it

> does not include a public option. That's right. I think that we as a

> moral and ethical nation should be responsible to make sure that every

> single person in this great nation has access to health care. However,

> I'm not going to dig in my heels and stomp my feet or whatnot with no

> thoughts for improving it. Rather, I'm working to make sure that we

> build on this beginning and make it better. For all of us. I've got

> mine and I'd love to stop having this argument because we all have

ours.

>

> Warmest regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharneymac (DOT) com <mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com>

>

>

>

>

>

>> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right

>> straight from my paycheck?

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

[mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On

>> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>>

>> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

>> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>>

>> Pat Bollinger

>>

>> Rowell, wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

>> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

>> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

>> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

>> >

>> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

>> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

>> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

>> > Certified LEAP Therapist

>> >

>> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > [mailto:rd-usa@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>]

>> On

>> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

>> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

>> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>> >

>> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when

>> the

>> > time comes?

>> >

>> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

>> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

>> wrote:

>> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it

all

>> > during

>> > > his day.

>> > >

>> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every

>> day.

>> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

>> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day

>> (March

>> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

>> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

>> > Costco +

>> > > K-Mart combined.

>> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

>> > Employer,

>> > > and most speak English.

>> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

>> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined,

>> and

>> > keep in

>> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

>> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought

>> bankruptcy.

>> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the

world.

>> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906

>> are Super

>> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

>> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

>> > occur At a

>> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5

>> Billion.).

>> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

>> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

>> > ground work

>> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run

Wal-Mart

>> > to Fix

>> > > the economy. T

>> > >

>> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

>> > Republicans,

>> > > EVERYONE!!

>> > >

>> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

There are many of us, not the few, who are in favor of the health care reform

bill. I think that the nay sayers are just more vocal, And, yes, the bill as we

have it today will need a lot of 'tweaking'.  I am so glad it got passed, it is

a beginning.

Madalyn

 

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:31:28 PM

Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

 

I think I may be one of the few who isn't against it...not 100% for ALL

of it, but something sure needs to happen!

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com

<mailto:leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com>

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com] On Behalf

Of Jen Zingaro

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 11:14 AM

To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

Well said pam.

Also, for those of you thatare upset b/c your congressman didn't vote

based on your letters, maybe they voted based on the ones that are

pro-reform like mine.

On Monday, April 5, 2010, Pam Charney <pcharneymac (DOT) com

<mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com> > wrote:

> ,

> If I remember correctly, you are employed by the state. I see you have

> a .gov email address. I find it a bit self-serving (as in " I got mine,

> too bad for you " ) that you claim to dislike state programs so much yet

> you are eligible for many perks that those of us who don't work for

> the government aren't as fortunate to have.

>

> To be honest, I am incredibly disappointed in the thoughts shared by

> members of this list. You hate reform. We know that. So, what is a

> better option? To keep the system we have is not that option. To

> repeal government offered health care is not an option; so don't

> accept Medicare.... what about the military? Our troops get (gasp)

> government sponsored healthcare. As a former soldier in the US Army, I

> can say it was also outstanding care. To be honest, it was more

> efficient, cost me nothing, and quicker than in the public sector.

>

> If you are complaining because you perceive that your current freedom

> of choice will be taken away (no, the President, senate, and/or

> congress personally will not be involved in your medical care),

> remember that your freedom of choice now is only an illusion. Your

> health care decisions are not made by you and your doctor. They're

> made by dudes in suits over at insurance headquarters and are based

> not on your health but on the bottom line. The same guys who decided

> that viagra was medically necessary but hearing aids for children with

> hearing loss were not. The CEO of my current health plan just got a $3

> million dollar bonus. And rates were increased. However, I'm lucky in

> that I have access to health are.

>

> Chew on this, those of you who would go without insurance if you could

> (how many of you have done that?)..... that's fine as long as you stay

> healthy. Get cancer? We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars

> for your surgery, chemo and radiation. Get diabetes? Let me see, it

> costs about $300/ month, every month, just for your insulin. test

> strips are about $1 each. You'll need to be seen by your

> endocrinologist every 3-4 months. Heart disease? Ever costed out

> cardiac surgery? How many bake sales and donations do you think your

> friends and neighbors are going to have? Multiply that by the number

> of chronic illnesses they'll have as well. And, if you're all lucky to

> stay healthy, remember you could walk out the door and get hit by a

> bus. Trauma care ain't cheap. Hospitals are only obligated to make

> sure patients are stable enough for transfer, so don't think that your

> lack of insurance will carry much weight. As soon as you got a pulse

> and a blood pressure, there'll be folks trying to get you out the

> door. You can forget about rehab, nor will you be able to afford the

> durable medical equipment you need, unless you have access to a lot

> more in your account than most of us have. Remember, you won't be able

> to work, so no employer sponsored insurance.

>

> If you don't want reform, are you happy with our standing in terms of

> health outcomes? We have the most expensive health care system in the

> world, and we are not even close to the top 10 in most outcomes. You

> can twist those statistics all you want; I know folks on this list

> have been quick to blame it all on various scapegoats, but the World

> Health Organization, no slouches when it comes to analyzing data, and

> not " owned " by liberals or anyone else, has done the crunching. We

> cost a lot and don't come close to the health care offered by

> countries that provide care from a more ethical perspective.

>

> Remember that if you have health insurance through your employer you

> are one paycheck from not having it. There's a saying that those who

> are against reform are those who have good insurance now. I'm not

> loving the current bill either. I'm incredibly disappointed that it

> does not include a public option. That's right. I think that we as a

> moral and ethical nation should be responsible to make sure that every

> single person in this great nation has access to health care. However,

> I'm not going to dig in my heels and stomp my feet or whatnot with no

> thoughts for improving it. Rather, I'm working to make sure that we

> build on this beginning and make it better. For all of us. I've got

> mine and I'd love to stop having this argument because we all have

ours.

>

> Warmest regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharneymac (DOT) com <mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com>

>

>

>

>

>

>> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right

>> straight from my paycheck?

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

[mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On

>> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>>

>> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

>> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>>

>> Pat Bollinger

>>

>> Rowell, wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

>> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

>> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

>> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

>> >

>> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

>> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

>> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

>> > Certified LEAP Therapist

>> >

>> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > [mailto:rd-usa@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>]

>> On

>> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

>> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

>> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>> >

>> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when

>> the

>> > time comes?

>> >

>> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

>> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

>> wrote:

>> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it

all

>> > during

>> > > his day.

>> > >

>> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every

>> day.

>> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

>> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day

>> (March

>> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

>> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

>> > Costco +

>> > > K-Mart combined.

>> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

>> > Employer,

>> > > and most speak English.

>> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

>> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined,

>> and

>> > keep in

>> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

>> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought

>> bankruptcy.

>> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the

world.

>> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906

>> are Super

>> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

>> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

>> > occur At a

>> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5

>> Billion.).

>> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

>> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

>> > ground work

>> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run

Wal-Mart

>> > to Fix

>> > > the economy. T

>> > >

>> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

>> > Republicans,

>> > > EVERYONE!!

>> > >

>> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good to hear! Nice to have someone with some of the same views as me while I am

here is west texas…very few of us here! J

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@...

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of

Madalyn Friedberg

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:21 PM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

,

There are many of us, not the few, who are in favor of the health care reform

bill. I think that the nay sayers are just more vocal, And, yes, the bill as we

have it today will need a lot of 'tweaking'. I am so glad it got passed, it is

a beginning.

Madalyn

________________________________

From: Collier <leslie.collier@...

<mailto:leslie.collier%40midland-memorial.com> >

To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:31:28 PM

Subject: RE: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

I think I may be one of the few who isn't against it...not 100% for ALL

of it, but something sure needs to happen!

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com

<mailto:leslie.collier@ midland-memorial .com>

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com] On Behalf

Of Jen Zingaro

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 11:14 AM

To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

Well said pam.

Also, for those of you thatare upset b/c your congressman didn't vote

based on your letters, maybe they voted based on the ones that are

pro-reform like mine.

On Monday, April 5, 2010, Pam Charney <pcharneymac (DOT) com

<mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com> > wrote:

> ,

> If I remember correctly, you are employed by the state. I see you have

> a .gov email address. I find it a bit self-serving (as in " I got mine,

> too bad for you " ) that you claim to dislike state programs so much yet

> you are eligible for many perks that those of us who don't work for

> the government aren't as fortunate to have.

>

> To be honest, I am incredibly disappointed in the thoughts shared by

> members of this list. You hate reform. We know that. So, what is a

> better option? To keep the system we have is not that option. To

> repeal government offered health care is not an option; so don't

> accept Medicare.... what about the military? Our troops get (gasp)

> government sponsored healthcare. As a former soldier in the US Army, I

> can say it was also outstanding care. To be honest, it was more

> efficient, cost me nothing, and quicker than in the public sector.

>

> If you are complaining because you perceive that your current freedom

> of choice will be taken away (no, the President, senate, and/or

> congress personally will not be involved in your medical care),

> remember that your freedom of choice now is only an illusion. Your

> health care decisions are not made by you and your doctor. They're

> made by dudes in suits over at insurance headquarters and are based

> not on your health but on the bottom line. The same guys who decided

> that viagra was medically necessary but hearing aids for children with

> hearing loss were not. The CEO of my current health plan just got a $3

> million dollar bonus. And rates were increased. However, I'm lucky in

> that I have access to health are.

>

> Chew on this, those of you who would go without insurance if you could

> (how many of you have done that?)..... that's fine as long as you stay

> healthy. Get cancer? We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars

> for your surgery, chemo and radiation. Get diabetes? Let me see, it

> costs about $300/ month, every month, just for your insulin. test

> strips are about $1 each. You'll need to be seen by your

> endocrinologist every 3-4 months. Heart disease? Ever costed out

> cardiac surgery? How many bake sales and donations do you think your

> friends and neighbors are going to have? Multiply that by the number

> of chronic illnesses they'll have as well. And, if you're all lucky to

> stay healthy, remember you could walk out the door and get hit by a

> bus. Trauma care ain't cheap. Hospitals are only obligated to make

> sure patients are stable enough for transfer, so don't think that your

> lack of insurance will carry much weight. As soon as you got a pulse

> and a blood pressure, there'll be folks trying to get you out the

> door. You can forget about rehab, nor will you be able to afford the

> durable medical equipment you need, unless you have access to a lot

> more in your account than most of us have. Remember, you won't be able

> to work, so no employer sponsored insurance.

>

> If you don't want reform, are you happy with our standing in terms of

> health outcomes? We have the most expensive health care system in the

> world, and we are not even close to the top 10 in most outcomes. You

> can twist those statistics all you want; I know folks on this list

> have been quick to blame it all on various scapegoats, but the World

> Health Organization, no slouches when it comes to analyzing data, and

> not " owned " by liberals or anyone else, has done the crunching. We

> cost a lot and don't come close to the health care offered by

> countries that provide care from a more ethical perspective.

>

> Remember that if you have health insurance through your employer you

> are one paycheck from not having it. There's a saying that those who

> are against reform are those who have good insurance now. I'm not

> loving the current bill either. I'm incredibly disappointed that it

> does not include a public option. That's right. I think that we as a

> moral and ethical nation should be responsible to make sure that every

> single person in this great nation has access to health care. However,

> I'm not going to dig in my heels and stomp my feet or whatnot with no

> thoughts for improving it. Rather, I'm working to make sure that we

> build on this beginning and make it better. For all of us. I've got

> mine and I'd love to stop having this argument because we all have

ours.

>

> Warmest regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney

> pcharneymac (DOT) com <mailto:pcharney% 40mac.com>

>

>

>

>

>

>> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right

>> straight from my paycheck?

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

[mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On

>> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>>

>> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

>> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>>

>> Pat Bollinger

>>

>> Rowell, wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

>> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

>> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

>> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

>> >

>> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

>> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

>> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

>> > Certified LEAP Therapist

>> >

>> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > [mailto:rd-usa@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>]

>> On

>> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

>> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

>> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> comments

>> >

>> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when

>> the

>> > time comes?

>> >

>> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

>> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

>> wrote:

>> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it

all

>> > during

>> > > his day.

>> > >

>> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every

>> day.

>> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

>> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day

>> (March

>> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

>> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

>> > Costco +

>> > > K-Mart combined.

>> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

>> > Employer,

>> > > and most speak English.

>> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

>> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined,

>> and

>> > keep in

>> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

>> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought

>> bankruptcy.

>> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the

world.

>> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906

>> are Super

>> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

>> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

>> > occur At a

>> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5

>> Billion.).

>> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

>> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

>> > ground work

>> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run

Wal-Mart

>> > to Fix

>> > > the economy. T

>> > >

>> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

>> > Republicans,

>> > > EVERYONE!!

>> > >

>> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being  responsible

citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my grandchildren being given

the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a proposal to

the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim one day (they

wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money collected going

to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The Headmaster responded that

although he was against wearing denim in school he was so impressed with her

proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over $600.

 Gratefully there are future generations who will  be at the front of the line

teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the 'me'

instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach their

children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 2:04:54 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

 

I agree --well said. This next statement is no judgement on anyone

participating in this discussion-- most especially not you Madalyn since you are

of a different generation than I will refer to and have dedicated yourself to a

giving profession in an organization that is foundationally very giving--but

perhaps a paradigm shift in our culture influences much of the different

perspectives on this issue. While American citizens are still the most generous

people on the planet as a whole to other countries in need, there is also a

predominant narcisissm and perhaps stunted maturity all around us. When my

children were small (immature, self-focused) it was the time to teach them about

generosity by positively (persuasively) enforcing them them to recognize where

they could " pitch in " or " be responsible " for their age and then expect them to

give of themselves to family, and then growing into being generous to others

outside the family. Unfortunately,

human nature being what it is, sometimes the suggestion to pitch in and help

others needed to be gently enforced at first! They were children, and with

consistency of example they matured. It would be rather dysfunctional for me to

tell my 19-year-old now what he should and shouldn't give now (but it's not a

problem because he has an antennae for giving a helping hand and he has been on

numerous missions trips, paying his own way from his own sweat-work to help

those less fortunate). Our government seems to be treating us as though we did

not mature (meaning grown up from childish self-centeredness to a focus outside

of ourselves, which may be increasingly true) and are still in need of enforcing

our generosity. Perhaps the pervasive narcissism and self-centeredness, and yes,

lack of maturity running all around us today, indicates to the government a

" need " to be the " parent " in our social and economic lives. Or perhaps it's more

sinister than that, or

both.

All that to say that the differing perspectives seem to be rooted in different

perceptions about what is morally and economically right and wrong (and

necessary) at this time, with different understanding mixed in there about human

behavior in a time when human behavior has been changing. Admittedly, we are

both a generous and increasingly self-centered people. I do not believe,

however, that government will be able to force the people to mature, especially

if the solution is to keep us dependent on a continual flow of handouts. I have

noticed that healthcare is not the only handout being dished out

daily--increased housing mortgage helps, increased student loan forgiveness,

bailouts galore. It feels kind of like the parent who gives treats and sweets to

keep the kids content for just another hour. The kids learn bad behavior and

grow up unhealthy. While the government seems to believe that it is a healthy

i.v. instead, an infusion for the health of the

country, I'm not so sure it's not quick candy. And it may be with perfectly

justifiable good intent of the government while a bigger problem may depend on

how the infusion of money is used by the receiving parties.

Again, Madalyn, this is not about your comments. You seem to be of a generation

when the culture was different, that gets it about the value of functioning in a

truly generous manner as you seem to be. We are all looking for a solution here.

This is a truly difficult situation and these are desperate times for many in

need--the current administration is in a difficult place of decision. But when

the powers-that- be had to manipulate to get the healthcare reform passed with

" legitimate " lawyer tactics with an " end justifies the means " attitude, it

seemed good people from both sides of the argument are no longer included in the

solution. I am mostly concerned with the truth that a house divided will not

stand.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealt h.com

e-mail: newlife4health@ aol.com, newlife@newlifeforh ealth.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/newlifedianepreves

http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Preves/1357243185

http://twitter. com/DianePreves

Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

I found this interesting and personally related to the Health Care Bill.

More comments below.

Jan Patenaude

This teacher is truly a genius! (photo removed - don't know if accurate,

but sounds plausible).

As the late said, " you cannot multiply wealth by dividing

it. "

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had

never

failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked, and that no one

would

be poor and no one would be rich --- a great equalizer. The professor then

said,

" OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan " . All grades

would

be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade, so no one would

fail

and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were

averaged

and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset, and the

students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around,

the

students who studied little had studied even less, and the ones who

studied hard

decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little. The second

test average

was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average

was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all

resulted in hard

feelings, and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All

failed, to their

great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also

ultimately fail

because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when

government

takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

I work hard to stay healthy. For MANY years I never carried insurance

because I take care to protect my personal health. If I need health care, I pay

out of pocket. When I needed 4 stitches in my upper lip (face plant when

rock climbing - my husband did the 4 stitches in about 20 minutes. (The ER

would have charged me nearly $1000 for the same service, and no, my hubby

isn't a doctor - had field surgery training before he went to Vietnam - the

scar is barely noticeable.)

So, now, I'm supposed to pay for health care for all the people that don't

give a crap about their health and run to the doctor for every cough,

fever, lap band and for perfectly preventable things if they just took care of

their health or addressed their personal addiction issues.

Now, coverage for catestrophic stuff? Yes. Do people end up with health

problems over which they have NO control? Yes.

But, a new health care bill that includes components for nationalizing

Student Loans? What does that have to do with health care.

A bill written by lawyers that has NO tort reform so that docs still have

to pay HUGE insurance premiums just to practice? Why wasn't that addresses?

Of course, we ALL know why.

It's pathetic.

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I read that you have taught your children the importance of being  responsible

citizens. I taught mine and am very pleased to see my grandchildren being given

the same messages. My 14 year old granddaughter just made a proposal to

the Headmaster of her school to allow the students to wear denim one day (they

wear uniforms) and charge $5 for this privilege with the money collected going

to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti. The Headmaster responded that

although he was against wearing denim in school he was so impressed with her

proposal he had to agree. 120 students raised over $600.

 Gratefully there are future generations who will  be at the front of the line

teaching values and responsiblity to those whose parents were from the 'me'

instant gratification generation and did not have the ability to teach their

children what you have taught yours.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 2:04:54 PM

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

 

I agree --well said. This next statement is no judgement on anyone

participating in this discussion-- most especially not you Madalyn since you are

of a different generation than I will refer to and have dedicated yourself to a

giving profession in an organization that is foundationally very giving--but

perhaps a paradigm shift in our culture influences much of the different

perspectives on this issue. While American citizens are still the most generous

people on the planet as a whole to other countries in need, there is also a

predominant narcisissm and perhaps stunted maturity all around us. When my

children were small (immature, self-focused) it was the time to teach them about

generosity by positively (persuasively) enforcing them them to recognize where

they could " pitch in " or " be responsible " for their age and then expect them to

give of themselves to family, and then growing into being generous to others

outside the family. Unfortunately,

human nature being what it is, sometimes the suggestion to pitch in and help

others needed to be gently enforced at first! They were children, and with

consistency of example they matured. It would be rather dysfunctional for me to

tell my 19-year-old now what he should and shouldn't give now (but it's not a

problem because he has an antennae for giving a helping hand and he has been on

numerous missions trips, paying his own way from his own sweat-work to help

those less fortunate). Our government seems to be treating us as though we did

not mature (meaning grown up from childish self-centeredness to a focus outside

of ourselves, which may be increasingly true) and are still in need of enforcing

our generosity. Perhaps the pervasive narcissism and self-centeredness, and yes,

lack of maturity running all around us today, indicates to the government a

" need " to be the " parent " in our social and economic lives. Or perhaps it's more

sinister than that, or

both.

All that to say that the differing perspectives seem to be rooted in different

perceptions about what is morally and economically right and wrong (and

necessary) at this time, with different understanding mixed in there about human

behavior in a time when human behavior has been changing. Admittedly, we are

both a generous and increasingly self-centered people. I do not believe,

however, that government will be able to force the people to mature, especially

if the solution is to keep us dependent on a continual flow of handouts. I have

noticed that healthcare is not the only handout being dished out

daily--increased housing mortgage helps, increased student loan forgiveness,

bailouts galore. It feels kind of like the parent who gives treats and sweets to

keep the kids content for just another hour. The kids learn bad behavior and

grow up unhealthy. While the government seems to believe that it is a healthy

i.v. instead, an infusion for the health of the

country, I'm not so sure it's not quick candy. And it may be with perfectly

justifiable good intent of the government while a bigger problem may depend on

how the infusion of money is used by the receiving parties.

Again, Madalyn, this is not about your comments. You seem to be of a generation

when the culture was different, that gets it about the value of functioning in a

truly generous manner as you seem to be. We are all looking for a solution here.

This is a truly difficult situation and these are desperate times for many in

need--the current administration is in a difficult place of decision. But when

the powers-that- be had to manipulate to get the healthcare reform passed with

" legitimate " lawyer tactics with an " end justifies the means " attitude, it

seemed good people from both sides of the argument are no longer included in the

solution. I am mostly concerned with the truth that a house divided will not

stand.

Respectfully,

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealt h.com

e-mail: newlife4health@ aol.com, newlife@newlifeforh ealth.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/newlifedianepreves

http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Preves/1357243185

http://twitter. com/DianePreves

Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

I found this interesting and personally related to the Health Care Bill.

More comments below.

Jan Patenaude

This teacher is truly a genius! (photo removed - don't know if accurate,

but sounds plausible).

As the late said, " you cannot multiply wealth by dividing

it. "

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had

never

failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked, and that no one

would

be poor and no one would be rich --- a great equalizer. The professor then

said,

" OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan " . All grades

would

be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade, so no one would

fail

and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were

averaged

and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset, and the

students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around,

the

students who studied little had studied even less, and the ones who

studied hard

decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little. The second

test average

was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average

was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all

resulted in hard

feelings, and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All

failed, to their

great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also

ultimately fail

because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when

government

takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

I work hard to stay healthy. For MANY years I never carried insurance

because I take care to protect my personal health. If I need health care, I pay

out of pocket. When I needed 4 stitches in my upper lip (face plant when

rock climbing - my husband did the 4 stitches in about 20 minutes. (The ER

would have charged me nearly $1000 for the same service, and no, my hubby

isn't a doctor - had field surgery training before he went to Vietnam - the

scar is barely noticeable.)

So, now, I'm supposed to pay for health care for all the people that don't

give a crap about their health and run to the doctor for every cough,

fever, lap band and for perfectly preventable things if they just took care of

their health or addressed their personal addiction issues.

Now, coverage for catestrophic stuff? Yes. Do people end up with health

problems over which they have NO control? Yes.

But, a new health care bill that includes components for nationalizing

Student Loans? What does that have to do with health care.

A bill written by lawyers that has NO tort reform so that docs still have

to pay HUGE insurance premiums just to practice? Why wasn't that addresses?

Of course, we ALL know why.

It's pathetic.

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Madalyn,

Exactly. We need leaders who teach values and resonsibility. That seems

self-evident to all people. It is the definitions of " values " and

" responsibility " where the differences seem to lie in our present day.

Regards,

Diane

Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

I found this interesting and personally related to the Health Care Bill.

More comments below.

Jan Patenaude

This teacher is truly a genius! (photo removed - don't know if accurate,

but sounds plausible).

As the late said, " you cannot multiply wealth by dividing

it. "

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had

never

failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked, and that no one

would

be poor and no one would be rich --- a great equalizer. The professor then

said,

" OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan " . All grades

would

be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade, so no one would

fail

and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were

averaged

and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset, and the

students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around,

the

students who studied little had studied even less, and the ones who

studied hard

decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little. The second

test average

was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average

was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all

resulted in hard

feelings, and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All

failed, to their

great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also

ultimately fail

because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when

government

takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

I work hard to stay healthy. For MANY years I never carried insurance

because I take care to protect my personal health. If I need health care, I

pay

out of pocket. When I needed 4 stitches in my upper lip (face plant when

rock climbing - my husband did the 4 stitches in about 20 minutes. (The ER

would have charged me nearly $1000 for the same service, and no, my hubby

isn't a doctor - had field surgery training before he went to Vietnam - the

scar is barely noticeable.)

So, now, I'm supposed to pay for health care for all the people that don't

give a crap about their health and run to the doctor for every cough,

fever, lap band and for perfectly preventable things if they just took care of

their health or addressed their personal addiction issues.

Now, coverage for catestrophic stuff? Yes. Do people end up with health

problems over which they have NO control? Yes.

But, a new health care bill that includes components for nationalizing

Student Loans? What does that have to do with health care.

A bill written by lawyers that has NO tort reform so that docs still have

to pay HUGE insurance premiums just to practice? Why wasn't that addresses?

Of course, we ALL know why.

It's pathetic.

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Madalyn,

Exactly. We need leaders who teach values and resonsibility. That seems

self-evident to all people. It is the definitions of " values " and

" responsibility " where the differences seem to lie in our present day.

Regards,

Diane

Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

I found this interesting and personally related to the Health Care Bill.

More comments below.

Jan Patenaude

This teacher is truly a genius! (photo removed - don't know if accurate,

but sounds plausible).

As the late said, " you cannot multiply wealth by dividing

it. "

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had

never

failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked, and that no one

would

be poor and no one would be rich --- a great equalizer. The professor then

said,

" OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan " . All grades

would

be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade, so no one would

fail

and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were

averaged

and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset, and the

students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around,

the

students who studied little had studied even less, and the ones who

studied hard

decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little. The second

test average

was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average

was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all

resulted in hard

feelings, and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All

failed, to their

great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also

ultimately fail

because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when

government

takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

I work hard to stay healthy. For MANY years I never carried insurance

because I take care to protect my personal health. If I need health care, I

pay

out of pocket. When I needed 4 stitches in my upper lip (face plant when

rock climbing - my husband did the 4 stitches in about 20 minutes. (The ER

would have charged me nearly $1000 for the same service, and no, my hubby

isn't a doctor - had field surgery training before he went to Vietnam - the

scar is barely noticeable.)

So, now, I'm supposed to pay for health care for all the people that don't

give a crap about their health and run to the doctor for every cough,

fever, lap band and for perfectly preventable things if they just took care of

their health or addressed their personal addiction issues.

Now, coverage for catestrophic stuff? Yes. Do people end up with health

problems over which they have NO control? Yes.

But, a new health care bill that includes components for nationalizing

Student Loans? What does that have to do with health care.

A bill written by lawyers that has NO tort reform so that docs still have

to pay HUGE insurance premiums just to practice? Why wasn't that addresses?

Of course, we ALL know why.

It's pathetic.

Jan Patenaude, RD, CLT

Consultant, Writer, Speaker

Director of Medical Nutrition

Signet Diagnostic Corporation

(Mountain Time)

Fax:

DineRight4aol (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Rowell, wrote:

> No, Medicare is funded by a mandatory payroll tax. It's for the good

> of the country we share.

Pat

>

>

> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right

> straight from my paycheck?

>

> Dave

>

> From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On

> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

>

> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>

> Pat Bollinger

>

> Rowell, wrote:

> >

> >

> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > [mailto:rd-usa@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> >

> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when the

> > time comes?

> >

> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

> wrote:

> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it all

> > during

> > > his day.

> > >

> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every day.

> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day (March

> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

> > Costco +

> > > K-Mart combined.

> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

> > Employer,

> > > and most speak English.

> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined, and

> > keep in

> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought bankruptcy.

> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the world.

> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906 are

> Super

> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

> > occur At a

> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5 Billion.).

> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

> > ground work

> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run Wal-Mart

> > to Fix

> > > the economy. T

> > >

> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

> > Republicans,

> > > EVERYONE!!

> > >

> > > To: President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,

> It is

> > > now official you are ALL corrupt morons:

> > > * The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 235

> years

> > > to get it right and it is broke.

> > > * Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 75 years

> to get

> > > it right and it is broke.

> > > * Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 72 years to get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 46 years to get it

> right;

> > > $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to

> > " the

> > > poor " and they only want more.

> > > * Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 45

> years

> > > to get it right and they are broke.

> > > * Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 40 years to get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our

> dependence

> > > on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget

> > of $24

> > > billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 33

> > years to

> > > get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

> > >

> > > You have FAILED in every " government service " you have shoved down our

> > > throats while overspending our tax dollars AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO

> > > BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

> > > Mr. Bill

> > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

> wrote:

> > >

> > >> Madlyn,

> > >>

> > >> I think it's great that your team can provide care to those who

> > really need

> > >> it and can't afford it. On the otherhand, I don't think putting our

> > country

> > >> in a financial crisis to pay for this as well as taxing us even

> > more, is the

> > >> most effective way to pay for this plan.

> > >>

> > >> If we can find other dollars to pay for this, I'd be more open.

> > >>

> > >> Another problem will be less reimbursement for hospitals and loss

> > of jobs

> > >> in the heathcare industry. Many non-profit hospitals already run at

> > a loss

> > >> and have begun to dig into their cash savings to continue

> > operations and

> > >> fund capital campaigns.

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Madalyn Friedberg

> > <mffrd10019@ yahoo. com

> > <mailto:mffrd10019% 40yahoo.com> <mailto:mffrd100 19% 40yahoo.com>

> > >> > wrote:

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Digna,

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. I was stating

> mine.

> > >>>

> > >>> I did not read the article as being relevant to the health care

> > bill. I

> > >>> read that some do not want to help the less fortunate and are

> > resentful

> > >>> for having the government tell us what to do. We are doing that

> > now. Our tax

> > >>> dollars are used for many social programs. As for the mandatory

> health

> > >>> insurance that is bugging so many....we have mandatory car

> > insurance, Our

> > >>> tax dollars are used for the uninsured pool of drivers and I don't

> > hear

> > >>> these same people balking about that. Medicare was condemned as a

> > >>> socialist plan - just try to take medicare away from any of the

> people

> > >>> complaining about the 'Obama Socialism " . The bill was passed and

> > in our form

> > >>> of government we now have to live with it. Learn how to 'tweak' it

> > if it

> > >>> does not work, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

> > >>>

> > >>> I live with a social conscience.. I believe I have a moral and

> > >>> ethical obligation to help those less fortunate than I am. I know

> > that there

> > >>> are people who take advantage of the system but I believe that

> > there are

> > >>> many fewer than you might think and that the majority who need

> > help would

> > >>> much rather help themselves if possible.

> > >>>

> > >>> I work for a company that does not charge the residents. You

> read that

> > >>> correctly... no private insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, we

> > don't take

> > >>> their social security. We provide excellent care. We ask that they

> > not be

> > >>> able to pay for private care but we do not want them to leave

> > their families

> > >>> destitute. We do not do a financial search of the applicants. We

> > have had

> > >>> less than 2% of our residents not fit our criteria in the 38 years

> > I have

> > >>> worked for them. And some of those were family of staff members or

> > staff

> > >>> themselves. I believe that people are usually honest. We have a

> > number of

> > >>> homeless residents who would not get the care we provide elsewhere.

> > >>> We rely on donations, an endowment and private income.

> > >>>

> > >>> Happy Holidays

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >>>

> > >>> From: Digna Cassens <dignacassens@ roadrunner. com

> > <mailto:dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com><mailto: dignacassen

> > s%40roadrunner. com><dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> > <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <rd-usa%40yahoogrou ps.com>

> > >>> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 1:05:01 AM

> > >>>

> > >>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> > email - I

> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> > >>>

> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> > future. I for

> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> > lessons. Let's

> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> > Jan's must

> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Rowell, wrote:

> No, Medicare is funded by a mandatory payroll tax. It's for the good

> of the country we share.

Pat

>

>

> Thanks, Pat. Is it optional for me to have to pay into it right

> straight from my paycheck?

>

> Dave

>

> From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On

> Behalf Of Pat Bollinger

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:31 AM

> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

>

> Under current regulation Medicare is already optional. Beginning when

> eligible one can choose not to be in the Medicare system.

>

> Pat Bollinger

>

> Rowell, wrote:

> >

> >

> > The answer is " yes " for me. If I actually had the choice! You bet!

> > Whatever is right for my country, not whatever is best for me at

> > someone else's expense! I just don't think that way and this nation

> > was not founded and made great on that way of thinking.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> > From: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > [mailto:rd-usa@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > Behalf Of Jen Zingaro

> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:21 PM

> > To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

> >

> > So does that mean you will opt out of medicare and social sec when the

> > time comes?

> >

> > On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

> wrote:

> > > I came across this from an older gent I admire who has seen it all

> > during

> > > his day.

> > >

> > > 1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every day.

> > > 2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

> > > 3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. 's Day (March

> > > 17th) than Target sells all year.

> > > 4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears +

> > Costco +

> > > K-Mart combined.

> > > 5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private

> > Employer,

> > > and most speak English.

> > > 6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

> > > 7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined, and

> > keep in

> > > mind they did this in only 15 years.

> > > 8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought bankruptcy.

> > > 9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the world.

> > > 10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906 are

> Super

> > > Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

> > > 11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will

> > occur At a

> > > Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5 Billion.).

> > > 12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

> > > You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the

> > ground work

> > > for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run Wal-Mart

> > to Fix

> > > the economy. T

> > >

> > > This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats,

> > Republicans,

> > > EVERYONE!!

> > >

> > > To: President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,

> It is

> > > now official you are ALL corrupt morons:

> > > * The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 235

> years

> > > to get it right and it is broke.

> > > * Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 75 years

> to get

> > > it right and it is broke.

> > > * Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 72 years to get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 46 years to get it

> right;

> > > $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to

> > " the

> > > poor " and they only want more.

> > > * Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 45

> years

> > > to get it right and they are broke.

> > > * Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 40 years to get it

> > > right and it is broke.

> > > * The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our

> dependence

> > > on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget

> > of $24

> > > billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 33

> > years to

> > > get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

> > >

> > > You have FAILED in every " government service " you have shoved down our

> > > throats while overspending our tax dollars AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO

> > > BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

> > > Mr. Bill

> > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Tavis Piattoly <tpiattolygmail (DOT) com

> > <mailto:tpiattoly% 40gmail.com> <mailto:tpiattol y% 40gmail.com> >

> wrote:

> > >

> > >> Madlyn,

> > >>

> > >> I think it's great that your team can provide care to those who

> > really need

> > >> it and can't afford it. On the otherhand, I don't think putting our

> > country

> > >> in a financial crisis to pay for this as well as taxing us even

> > more, is the

> > >> most effective way to pay for this plan.

> > >>

> > >> If we can find other dollars to pay for this, I'd be more open.

> > >>

> > >> Another problem will be less reimbursement for hospitals and loss

> > of jobs

> > >> in the heathcare industry. Many non-profit hospitals already run at

> > a loss

> > >> and have begun to dig into their cash savings to continue

> > operations and

> > >> fund capital campaigns.

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Madalyn Friedberg

> > <mffrd10019@ yahoo. com

> > <mailto:mffrd10019% 40yahoo.com> <mailto:mffrd100 19% 40yahoo.com>

> > >> > wrote:

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Digna,

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. I was stating

> mine.

> > >>>

> > >>> I did not read the article as being relevant to the health care

> > bill. I

> > >>> read that some do not want to help the less fortunate and are

> > resentful

> > >>> for having the government tell us what to do. We are doing that

> > now. Our tax

> > >>> dollars are used for many social programs. As for the mandatory

> health

> > >>> insurance that is bugging so many....we have mandatory car

> > insurance, Our

> > >>> tax dollars are used for the uninsured pool of drivers and I don't

> > hear

> > >>> these same people balking about that. Medicare was condemned as a

> > >>> socialist plan - just try to take medicare away from any of the

> people

> > >>> complaining about the 'Obama Socialism " . The bill was passed and

> > in our form

> > >>> of government we now have to live with it. Learn how to 'tweak' it

> > if it

> > >>> does not work, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

> > >>>

> > >>> I live with a social conscience.. I believe I have a moral and

> > >>> ethical obligation to help those less fortunate than I am. I know

> > that there

> > >>> are people who take advantage of the system but I believe that

> > there are

> > >>> many fewer than you might think and that the majority who need

> > help would

> > >>> much rather help themselves if possible.

> > >>>

> > >>> I work for a company that does not charge the residents. You

> read that

> > >>> correctly... no private insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, we

> > don't take

> > >>> their social security. We provide excellent care. We ask that they

> > not be

> > >>> able to pay for private care but we do not want them to leave

> > their families

> > >>> destitute. We do not do a financial search of the applicants. We

> > have had

> > >>> less than 2% of our residents not fit our criteria in the 38 years

> > I have

> > >>> worked for them. And some of those were family of staff members or

> > staff

> > >>> themselves. I believe that people are usually honest. We have a

> > number of

> > >>> homeless residents who would not get the care we provide elsewhere.

> > >>> We rely on donations, an endowment and private income.

> > >>>

> > >>> Happy Holidays

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >>>

> > >>> From: Digna Cassens <dignacassens@ roadrunner. com

> > <mailto:dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com><mailto: dignacassen

> > s%40roadrunner. com><dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> > <mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <rd-usa%40yahoogrou ps.com>

> > >>> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 1:05:01 AM

> > >>>

> > >>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> > email - I

> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> > >>>

> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> > future. I for

> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> > lessons. Let's

> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> > Jan's must

> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Medicare part B is optional; Medicare part A is, also, optional but if you are

eligible for part A, you have already paid for it via taxes, either deducted by

your employer or by you when filing as as self employed (self employment tax)

Raphaela

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Digna,

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. I was stating mine.

> > >>>

> > >>> I did not read the article as being relevant to the health care

> > bill. I

> > >>> read that some do not want to help the less fortunate and are

> > resentful

> > >>> for having the government tell us what to do. We are doing that

> > now. Our tax

> > >>> dollars are used for many social programs. As for the mandatory health

> > >>> insurance that is bugging so many....we have mandatory car

> > insurance, Our

> > >>> tax dollars are used for the uninsured pool of drivers and I don't

> > hear

> > >>> these same people balking about that. Medicare was condemned as a

> > >>> socialist plan - just try to take medicare away from any of the people

> > >>> complaining about the 'Obama Socialism " . The bill was passed and

> > in our form

> > >>> of government we now have to live with it. Learn how to 'tweak' it

> > if it

> > >>> does not work, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

> > >>>

> > >>> I live with a social conscience.. I believe I have a moral and

> > >>> ethical obligation to help those less fortunate than I am. I know

> > that there

> > >>> are people who take advantage of the system but I believe that

> > there are

> > >>> many fewer than you might think and that the majority who need

> > help would

> > >>> much rather help themselves if possible.

> > >>>

> > >>> I work for a company that does not charge the residents. You read that

> > >>> correctly... no private insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, we

> > don't take

> > >>> their social security. We provide excellent care. We ask that they

> > not be

> > >>> able to pay for private care but we do not want them to leave

> > their families

> > >>> destitute. We do not do a financial search of the applicants. We

> > have had

> > >>> less than 2% of our residents not fit our criteria in the 38 years

> > I have

> > >>> worked for them. And some of those were family of staff members or

> > staff

> > >>> themselves. I believe that people are usually honest. We have a

> > number of

> > >>> homeless residents who would not get the care we provide elsewhere.

> > >>> We rely on donations, an endowment and private income.

> > >>>

> > >>> Happy Holidays

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >>>

> > >>> From: Digna Cassens <dignacassens@ roadrunner. com

> > <mailto:dignacassens%40roadrunner.com><mailto:dignacassen

> > s%40roadrunner. com><dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <rd-usa%40yahoogrou ps.com>

> > >>> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 1:05:01 AM

> > >>>

> > >>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> > email - I

> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> > >>>

> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> > future. I for

> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> > lessons. Let's

> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> > Jan's must

> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Medicare part B is optional; Medicare part A is, also, optional but if you are

eligible for part A, you have already paid for it via taxes, either deducted by

your employer or by you when filing as as self employed (self employment tax)

Raphaela

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Digna,

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. I was stating mine.

> > >>>

> > >>> I did not read the article as being relevant to the health care

> > bill. I

> > >>> read that some do not want to help the less fortunate and are

> > resentful

> > >>> for having the government tell us what to do. We are doing that

> > now. Our tax

> > >>> dollars are used for many social programs. As for the mandatory health

> > >>> insurance that is bugging so many....we have mandatory car

> > insurance, Our

> > >>> tax dollars are used for the uninsured pool of drivers and I don't

> > hear

> > >>> these same people balking about that. Medicare was condemned as a

> > >>> socialist plan - just try to take medicare away from any of the people

> > >>> complaining about the 'Obama Socialism " . The bill was passed and

> > in our form

> > >>> of government we now have to live with it. Learn how to 'tweak' it

> > if it

> > >>> does not work, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

> > >>>

> > >>> I live with a social conscience.. I believe I have a moral and

> > >>> ethical obligation to help those less fortunate than I am. I know

> > that there

> > >>> are people who take advantage of the system but I believe that

> > there are

> > >>> many fewer than you might think and that the majority who need

> > help would

> > >>> much rather help themselves if possible.

> > >>>

> > >>> I work for a company that does not charge the residents. You read that

> > >>> correctly... no private insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, we

> > don't take

> > >>> their social security. We provide excellent care. We ask that they

> > not be

> > >>> able to pay for private care but we do not want them to leave

> > their families

> > >>> destitute. We do not do a financial search of the applicants. We

> > have had

> > >>> less than 2% of our residents not fit our criteria in the 38 years

> > I have

> > >>> worked for them. And some of those were family of staff members or

> > staff

> > >>> themselves. I believe that people are usually honest. We have a

> > number of

> > >>> homeless residents who would not get the care we provide elsewhere.

> > >>> We rely on donations, an endowment and private income.

> > >>>

> > >>> Happy Holidays

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >>>

> > >>> From: Digna Cassens <dignacassens@ roadrunner. com

> > <mailto:dignacassens%40roadrunner.com><mailto:dignacassen

> > s%40roadrunner. com><dignacassen s%40roadrunner. com>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> To: rd-usayahoogroups (DOT) com

> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:rd-usa% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <rd-usa%40yahoogrou ps.com>

> > >>> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 1:05:01 AM

> > >>>

> > >>> Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> > comments

> > >>>

> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> > email - I

> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> > >>>

> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> > future. I for

> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> > lessons. Let's

> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> > Jan's must

> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

But they take our money through our taxes, correct? I will opt out of any

program that doesn't take my money first, then let me opt out of it. ly,

that's not fair play.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments

> >>>

> >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> email - I

> >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> >>>

> >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> future. I for

> >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> lessons. Let's

> >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> Jan's must

> >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

>

>

[Guest guest]

But they take our money through our taxes, correct? I will opt out of any

program that doesn't take my money first, then let me opt out of it. ly,

that's not fair play.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> comments

> >>>

> >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> email - I

> >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> >>>

> >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> future. I for

> >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the American

> >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> lessons. Let's

> >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the terrible

> >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> Jan's must

> >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could ev

>

>

[Guest guest]

When the messages start getting hostile and personal, it's time to shut down

the discussion as far as I'm concerned. That is mud-slinging and having a

closed mind. A discussion does not have to turn into an argument or end up

in anger. Professional courtesy and restraint in personal accusations should

be the rules we follow in this, and any other discussion. I for one will

stop reading and responding, unless the tone of the messages changes to one

more objective and less sarcastic and accusatory. It's too bad too because

I've learned, and have had more food for thought with these than most other

posts in this forum.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> > comments

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

>> > email - I

>> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

>> > future. I for

>> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the

>> American

>> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

>> > lessons. Let's

>> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the

>> terrible

>> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

>> > Jan's must

>> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could

>> ev

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

When the messages start getting hostile and personal, it's time to shut down

the discussion as far as I'm concerned. That is mud-slinging and having a

closed mind. A discussion does not have to turn into an argument or end up

in anger. Professional courtesy and restraint in personal accusations should

be the rules we follow in this, and any other discussion. I for one will

stop reading and responding, unless the tone of the messages changes to one

more objective and less sarcastic and accusatory. It's too bad too because

I've learned, and have had more food for thought with these than most other

posts in this forum.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> > comments

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

>> > email - I

>> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

>> > future. I for

>> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the

>> American

>> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

>> > lessons. Let's

>> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the

>> terrible

>> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

>> > Jan's must

>> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could

>> ev

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

It's so funny how others can be closed minded or sling mud, as in calling

people socialists, liberals, whatever derogatory term that one would like,

and that's okay. I've suffered through many of these conversations where I

feel like my ideas were merely discounted and not important. Honestly, not

sure why I am still subscribed to this listserve.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Digna Cassens

wrote:

>

>

> When the messages start getting hostile and personal, it's time to shut

> down

> the discussion as far as I'm concerned. That is mud-slinging and having a

> closed mind. A discussion does not have to turn into an argument or end up

> in anger. Professional courtesy and restraint in personal accusations

> should

> be the rules we follow in this, and any other discussion. I for one will

> stop reading and responding, unless the tone of the messages changes to one

>

> more objective and less sarcastic and accusatory. It's too bad too because

> I've learned, and have had more food for thought with these than most other

>

> posts in this forum.

>

> Digna

>

>

> Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

> >> > comments

> >> > >>>

> >> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

> >> > email - I

> >> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

> >> > >>>

> >> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

> >> > future. I for

> >> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the

> >> American

> >> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

> >> > lessons. Let's

> >> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the

> >> terrible

> >> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

> >> > Jan's must

> >> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could

> >> ev

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

AGREED

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@...

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf

Of Digna Cassens

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:09 PM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

When the messages start getting hostile and personal, it's time to shut

down

the discussion as far as I'm concerned. That is mud-slinging and having

a

closed mind. A discussion does not have to turn into an argument or end

up

in anger. Professional courtesy and restraint in personal accusations

should

be the rules we follow in this, and any other discussion. I for one will

stop reading and responding, unless the tone of the messages changes to

one

more objective and less sarcastic and accusatory. It's too bad too

because

I've learned, and have had more food for thought with these than most

other

posts in this forum.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> > comments

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

>> > email - I

>> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

>> > future. I for

>> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the

>> American

>> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

>> > lessons. Let's

>> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the

>> terrible

>> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

>> > Jan's must

>> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could

>> ev

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

AGREED

Collier, RD/LD

Clinical Nutrition Manager

Patient Services Manager

Midland Memorial Hospital

2200 West Illinois

Midland, TX 79701

leslie.collier@...

(fax)

(pager)

" Dance like no one is watching, eat like someone is! "

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf

Of Digna Cassens

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:09 PM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill comments

When the messages start getting hostile and personal, it's time to shut

down

the discussion as far as I'm concerned. That is mud-slinging and having

a

closed mind. A discussion does not have to turn into an argument or end

up

in anger. Professional courtesy and restraint in personal accusations

should

be the rules we follow in this, and any other discussion. I for one will

stop reading and responding, unless the tone of the messages changes to

one

more objective and less sarcastic and accusatory. It's too bad too

because

I've learned, and have had more food for thought with these than most

other

posts in this forum.

Digna

Re: Why socialism won't work -Healthcare bill

>> > comments

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Madalyn, About your opinon, that this is not the forum for this

>> > email - I

>> > >>> wonder why? can you explain so I can understand?

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I find that it is very relevant to all our predicaments and

>> > future. I for

>> > >>> one am convinced it's the beginning of the end of what the

>> American

>> > >>> Constitution stands for as I understand it from my history

>> > lessons. Let's

>> > >>> just say some are to the left, others to the right, and the

>> terrible

>> > >>> tug-of-war will put us all face down in the mud. voices such as

>> > Jan's must

>> > >>> be heard and paid attention to, not squelched (as if Jan could

>> ev

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Living in Massachusetts, where we've tried the version of health care reform on

which the new Federal law is based, I'm amazed that more people from here

haven't commented.

There ARE some 'good' things in the bill --

Children are covered to the age of 26 under parent's policy.

OK, that's about it for the good thing's'.

We have some of the bests, most extensive, and most EXPENSIVE medical care in

the world in the Boston area. Our medical schools include Harvard, Tufts and

BU. Our hospitals include MGH, Brigham & Women's, Dana Farber Cancer Center,

B.I. Deaconess, N.E. Baptist, (Harvard teaching hospitals), Boston Medical

Center (BU teaching hospital), Tufts Medical Center, Lahey Clinic, St.

's (Tufts teaching hospitals), as well as numerous other suburban

clinics and hospitals associated with these hospitals and medical schools.

There's also UMass medical school in Worcester.

We also have the highest medical insurance premiums and longest waits for

medical care in the country. Three of the biggest insurance companies stopped

writing health insurance policies for 'small employers' when the 'insurance

boss' (forget the exact title) refused to allow them to raise rates. A majority

of doctors are refusing to see patients who are covered by Medicare and

Medicaid.

To those who are sure that they will be able to keep their insurance, no matter

what -- I have two friends who do own small businesses, do provide health

insurance coverage to their employees, and it is their understanding that it

will be less expensive for them to pay the 'fine' than it will be for them to

cover their employees with 'approved' insurance. So much for keeping your

'existing' coverage.

Be careful what you wish for!

Lois Black

[Guest guest]

Well, if all the companies are gonna ditch out on providing health insurance

and pay the fine, I sure wish the law had the public option so I'd have

somewhere to turn.

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:08 AM, foodie101960 <

schoolnutrsolutions@...> wrote:

>

>

> Living in Massachusetts, where we've tried the version of health care

> reform on which the new Federal law is based, I'm amazed that more people

> from here haven't commented.

>

> There ARE some 'good' things in the bill --

> Children are covered to the age of 26 under parent's policy.

> OK, that's about it for the good thing's'.

>

> We have some of the bests, most extensive, and most EXPENSIVE medical care

> in the world in the Boston area. Our medical schools include Harvard, Tufts

> and BU. Our hospitals include MGH, Brigham & Women's, Dana Farber Cancer

> Center, B.I. Deaconess, N.E. Baptist, (Harvard teaching hospitals), Boston

> Medical Center (BU teaching hospital), Tufts Medical Center, Lahey Clinic,

> St. 's (Tufts teaching hospitals), as well as numerous other

> suburban clinics and hospitals associated with these hospitals and medical

> schools. There's also UMass medical school in Worcester.

>

> We also have the highest medical insurance premiums and longest waits for

> medical care in the country. Three of the biggest insurance companies

> stopped writing health insurance policies for 'small employers' when the

> 'insurance boss' (forget the exact title) refused to allow them to raise

> rates. A majority of doctors are refusing to see patients who are covered by

> Medicare and Medicaid.

>

> To those who are sure that they will be able to keep their insurance, no

> matter what -- I have two friends who do own small businesses, do provide

> health insurance coverage to their employees, and it is their understanding

> that it will be less expensive for them to pay the 'fine' than it will be

> for them to cover their employees with 'approved' insurance. So much for

> keeping your 'existing' coverage.

>

> Be careful what you wish for!

>

> Lois Black

>

>

>