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Hi,

Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a little

while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

Canberra, Australia.

Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what

AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

Regards, Christo

--

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Welcome Christo:

You share a name with one of my favorite artists. Do you know of

Christo the wrapper? He's the best " wrap " star I know. His art is to

wrap things. The Arc de Triomphe in Paris for example. I wish he'd wrap

Clancy.

Anyway. Tell us your story in a nutshell... we'd love to hear more.

Apple

> Hi,

>

> Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a

little

> while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> Canberra, Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers)

what

> AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in

Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

> Regards, Christo

> --

>

>

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<7m6f1c$hdt-egroups> wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5588

> Welcome Christo:

He did some wrapping over here too.

> I wish he'd wrap

> Clancy.

Clancy?

Er got to go now. Shall return with my story later.

Best,

Christo

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Good on yer, mate,

Congrats for staying sober 11 years in spite of AA. I survived ten years

myself and am overjoyed to finally be sated at this little intellectual

oasis in cyberspace. Welcome.

I should think that given the Aussies' enthusiasm for drink that their

AA would be accordingly noxious. My heart goes out to you.

panpipes@... wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a little

> while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> Canberra, Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what

> AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

> Regards, Christo

> --

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> FREE !! DOWNLOAD NOW !!

> Interactive Sexy Girl Cartoon Character for Windows.

> http://clickhere./click/456

>

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Hi Christo, it's nice to meet you. I'm pretty new here myself. But it does

feel good to simply speak the truth of my own negative experience with AA,

and to do so in an environment where I know others understand what I went

through.

Judith

> Hi,Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a little

while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in Canberra,

Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just getting

it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what AA really

is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

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Judith-

How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was great. Very

thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)

I'm at work today for a few hours. Stress manifested itself in illness

this week, so I took a day off. It used to be I would work my way into a

migraine and then then feel guilty about staying home BECAUSE I had a

migraine, lay in bed and get worse, etc., etc....now I'm trying to " grow out

of " that kind of thinking.

I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just can't get

past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since he

died.

Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out and work

on my garden!

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: G'day

>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:20:42 PDT

>

>Hi Christo, it's nice to meet you. I'm pretty new here myself. But it

>does

>feel good to simply speak the truth of my own negative experience with AA,

>and to do so in an environment where I know others understand what I went

>through.

>

>Judith

>

>

>

> > Hi,Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a

>little

>while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in Canberra,

>Australia.

> >

> > Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just getting

>it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what AA really

>is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

> >

> > Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________________

>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>eGroups Spotlight:

> " Men's Studies Discussion " - An intelligent and

>informal discussion of men's issues and men's studies.

>http://clickhere./click/116

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

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Judith-

How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was great. Very

thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)

I'm at work today for a few hours. Stress manifested itself in illness

this week, so I took a day off. It used to be I would work my way into a

migraine and then then feel guilty about staying home BECAUSE I had a

migraine, lay in bed and get worse, etc., etc....now I'm trying to " grow out

of " that kind of thinking.

I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just can't get

past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since he

died.

Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out and work

on my garden!

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: G'day

>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:20:42 PDT

>

>Hi Christo, it's nice to meet you. I'm pretty new here myself. But it

>does

>feel good to simply speak the truth of my own negative experience with AA,

>and to do so in an environment where I know others understand what I went

>through.

>

>Judith

>

>

>

> > Hi,Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a

>little

>while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in Canberra,

>Australia.

> >

> > Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just getting

>it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what AA really

>is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

> >

> > Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________________

>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>eGroups Spotlight:

> " Men's Studies Discussion " - An intelligent and

>informal discussion of men's issues and men's studies.

>http://clickhere./click/116

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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> Judith-

> How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was great.

Very thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)>

Hi , I'm doing OK. Thanks for the compliment :)

> I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just can't get

past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since he

died.>

I think it's a good idea to get some counseling to help you through it. It

seems like we are pushed to get past our grief in a day or two, then get on

with life as though nothing happened. But in reality, the loss of a loved

one changes a person (I believe permanently). Just yesterday I saw or heard

a reference to the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression,

and finally acceptance.

> Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out and

work on my garden!>

No kidding! Today is gorgeous. Take care, !

Judith

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

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> Judith-

> How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was great.

Very thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)>

Hi , I'm doing OK. Thanks for the compliment :)

> I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just can't get

past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since he

died.>

I think it's a good idea to get some counseling to help you through it. It

seems like we are pushed to get past our grief in a day or two, then get on

with life as though nothing happened. But in reality, the loss of a loved

one changes a person (I believe permanently). Just yesterday I saw or heard

a reference to the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression,

and finally acceptance.

> Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out and

work on my garden!>

No kidding! Today is gorgeous. Take care, !

Judith

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

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In a message dated 7/9/99 11:42:13 PM Central Daylight Time,

johnhollister@... writes:

Hi Back,

I just found this wonderful forum, and great people a week ago, and have

found so much relief and release in everyone's postings!

I rejoice in all who finally break free and pass through the real gates of

hell with double AA's on the gate! Somewhere deep within me I think I had the

key to get out of there several years ago, I was just afraid I would be given

a lethal injection of Alcohol by a

past sponsor or something if, I truly tried to reject their beliefs!

I have enjoyed reading the revisions to the BB, and everyones stories, and

ideas. So kewl to be able to think and express freely here!

Leigh

<< Hi,

>

> Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a little

> while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> Canberra, Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what

> AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

> Regards, Christo >>

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In a message dated 7/9/99 11:42:13 PM Central Daylight Time,

johnhollister@... writes:

Hi Back,

I just found this wonderful forum, and great people a week ago, and have

found so much relief and release in everyone's postings!

I rejoice in all who finally break free and pass through the real gates of

hell with double AA's on the gate! Somewhere deep within me I think I had the

key to get out of there several years ago, I was just afraid I would be given

a lethal injection of Alcohol by a

past sponsor or something if, I truly tried to reject their beliefs!

I have enjoyed reading the revisions to the BB, and everyones stories, and

ideas. So kewl to be able to think and express freely here!

Leigh

<< Hi,

>

> Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a little

> while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> Canberra, Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers) what

> AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

> Regards, Christo >>

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In a message dated 7/10/99 8:39:03 AM Central Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< I'm at work today for a few hours. Stress manifested itself in illness

this week, so I took a day off. It used to be I would work my way into a

migraine and then then feel guilty about staying home BECAUSE I had a

migraine, lay in bed and get worse, etc., etc....now I'm trying to " grow out

of " that kind of thinking. >>

Thankyou ,

For the letter before this one as well.

It wasn't until 2 years in the " Program " Or should I say " Programming " that

Stress manifested itself in me! It goes straight to my back, and became so

bad that I had to stop working.

My job required standing sometimes 16 hours a day.

I am grateful to know that there are others who also understand how stress

and depression affects the body!

I am sending you good vibes hoping your depression lifts.

I find for me, it is a cycle of stress, pain, and depression, when my body

starts letting me know I am in overload.

Hoping all have a pleasant Saturday!

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In a message dated 7/10/99 8:39:03 AM Central Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< I'm at work today for a few hours. Stress manifested itself in illness

this week, so I took a day off. It used to be I would work my way into a

migraine and then then feel guilty about staying home BECAUSE I had a

migraine, lay in bed and get worse, etc., etc....now I'm trying to " grow out

of " that kind of thinking. >>

Thankyou ,

For the letter before this one as well.

It wasn't until 2 years in the " Program " Or should I say " Programming " that

Stress manifested itself in me! It goes straight to my back, and became so

bad that I had to stop working.

My job required standing sometimes 16 hours a day.

I am grateful to know that there are others who also understand how stress

and depression affects the body!

I am sending you good vibes hoping your depression lifts.

I find for me, it is a cycle of stress, pain, and depression, when my body

starts letting me know I am in overload.

Hoping all have a pleasant Saturday!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Guest guest

Welcome, Christo!

Stick around-this is a truly interesting bunch!

<7m6dcg$tbu-egroups> wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5582

> Hi,

>

> Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a

little

> while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> Canberra, Australia.

>

> Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers)

what

> AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here in

Oz.

>

> Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

>

> Regards, Christo

> --

>

>

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Hi Leigh!

It is such a breath of fresh air to most people who access this site!

It was very difficult to decide to make the break and leave aa; even

though it has taken me a few years. I have to admit that after 15

years of going to meetings, I thought I had quite a support

system-WRONG. What a sad awakening that was. I have had more

outpourings of support here than in all my years in Bill's Club. I

know most of us who are " regulars " here feel the same way. I feel

comfortable here after being crushed under the heels and betrayed by

members of aa. What a sad commentary on aa to say that a group with

tens of thousands strong can be such a failure and a false-fronted

" religion " and/or cult.

I read a posting recently that predicted groups such as this one will

grow by leaps and bounds and aa, with its archaic doctrines, aa will

eventually dissolve and fade away into the past. I hope I am alive to

see aa crumble. Nothing would give me greater pleasure...on second

thought...oh, just kidding!

You are absolutely right on about the feelings concerning getting out

of aa-there IS something wrong!! Back in the '30's, it was a good

start on therapy, but it got lost in the translation-Bill W. became

" omnipotent " (a legend in his own mind) and he could do no wrong, and

the wrong he did, he managed to " justify " in order to continue to get

away with it. Just for starters, he actually justified adultery!

Personal opinion: Adultery is wrong and hurts people. Pure and simple.

He clouded it and buried it.

For those of us who have tried to find a way to cope with our many

different afflictions, this is a wonderful place to find at least a

start. Thanks, Apple! (Apple created this site.)

Love,

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5604

> In a message dated 7/9/99 11:42:13 PM Central Daylight Time,

> johnhollister@... writes:

> Hi Back,

> I just found this wonderful forum, and great people a week ago, and

have

> found so much relief and release in everyone's postings!

> I rejoice in all who finally break free and pass through the real

gates of

> hell with double AA's on the gate! Somewhere deep within me I think I

had the

> key to get out of there several years ago, I was just afraid I would

be given

> a lethal injection of Alcohol by a

> past sponsor or something if, I truly tried to reject their beliefs!

>

> I have enjoyed reading the revisions to the BB, and everyones

stories, and

> ideas. So kewl to be able to think and express freely here!

> Leigh

>

> << Hi,

> >

> > Just thought I'd make my presence known. Been lurking here for a

little

> > while, since I hit on Apple's Web Site. Name's Christo. Live in

> > Canberra, Australia.

> >

> > Sounds like hell over there. Ah well, we're not far behind. Just

> > getting it across to people (doctors, shrinks, friends, strangers)

what

> > AA really is, is likely to get one burned at the stake down here

in Oz.

> >

> > Sober 11 years now. No thanks to AA. Turn 47 December.

> >

> > Regards, Christo >>

>

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Guest guest

Thanks, Leigh!

I have worked on my feet for long period and know how hard that can be!

Awareness is the beginning of doing something to solve and deal with a

problem.

There are a lot of solutions out there-ya just gotta look.

Thanks so much for your good thoughts-I need all I can lately!

Love,

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5610

> In a message dated 7/10/99 8:39:03 AM Central Daylight Time,

> wrose2@... writes:

>

> << I'm at work today for a few hours. Stress manifested itself in

illness

> this week, so I took a day off. It used to be I would work my way

into a

> migraine and then then feel guilty about staying home BECAUSE I had

a

> migraine, lay in bed and get worse, etc., etc....now I'm trying to

" grow out

> of " that kind of thinking. >>

> Thankyou ,

> For the letter before this one as well.

> It wasn't until 2 years in the " Program " Or should I say

" Programming " that

> Stress manifested itself in me! It goes straight to my back, and

became so

> bad that I had to stop working.

> My job required standing sometimes 16 hours a day.

> I am grateful to know that there are others who also understand how

stress

> and depression affects the body!

> I am sending you good vibes hoping your depression lifts.

> I find for me, it is a cycle of stress, pain, and depression, when

my body

> starts letting me know I am in overload.

> Hoping all have a pleasant Saturday!

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Guest guest

Hi Judith!

Credit where credit is definitely due!

One of the first things that I realized after Nick's death is that

three days worth of grief leave from work is NOTHING!!! But you

definitely need to get back into life as soon as you can.

Love,

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5611

>

> > Judith-

> > How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was

great.

> Very thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)>

>

> Hi , I'm doing OK. Thanks for the compliment :)

>

> > I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just

can't get

> past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since

he

> died.>

>

> I think it's a good idea to get some counseling to help you through

it. It

> seems like we are pushed to get past our grief in a day or two, then

get on

> with life as though nothing happened. But in reality, the loss of a

loved

> one changes a person (I believe permanently). Just yesterday I saw

or heard

> a reference to the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining,

depression,

> and finally acceptance.

>

> > Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out

and

> work on my garden!>

>

> No kidding! Today is gorgeous. Take care, !

>

> Judith

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________________

> Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

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Guest guest

Hi Judith!

Credit where credit is definitely due!

One of the first things that I realized after Nick's death is that

three days worth of grief leave from work is NOTHING!!! But you

definitely need to get back into life as soon as you can.

Love,

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5611

>

> > Judith-

> > How are you? I read your post a while back and thought it was

great.

> Very thought-provoking for those of us with " resentments " (!)>

>

> Hi , I'm doing OK. Thanks for the compliment :)

>

> > I am going to go into grief counseling for Nick's death. I just

can't get

> past the depression phase and it will be three months tomorrow since

he

> died.>

>

> I think it's a good idea to get some counseling to help you through

it. It

> seems like we are pushed to get past our grief in a day or two, then

get on

> with life as though nothing happened. But in reality, the loss of a

loved

> one changes a person (I believe permanently). Just yesterday I saw

or heard

> a reference to the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining,

depression,

> and finally acceptance.

>

> > Nice that it cooled down from earlier this week! Now I can get out

and

> work on my garden!>

>

> No kidding! Today is gorgeous. Take care, !

>

> Judith

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________________

> Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

>

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Hi there!

I have to comment on two things... one is that I've heard that it is

the most oppressive religions that spread the fastest! Religions (or

should I say belief systems), which encourage free -thought do not

spread like wild fire. Why? Because free thinkers do not need to

congregate to get the approval of the group.

I am not the creator of 12-step-free. This discussion group was started

by Ken Ragge. Author of " The Real AA " . I did the deprogramming site.

Apple

> I read a posting recently that predicted groups such as this one will

> grow by leaps and bounds and aa, with its archaic doctrines, aa will

> eventually dissolve and fade away into the past. I hope I am alive to

> see aa crumble. Nothing would give me greater pleasure...on second

> thought...oh, just kidding!

>

> For those of us who have tried to find a way to cope with our many

> different afflictions, this is a wonderful place to find at least a

> start. Thanks, Apple! (Apple created this site.)

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Guest guest

Apple, Ken:

My apologies-I was under a misconception.

Thanks to both of you for your efforts. It is a breath of fresh air to more

and more people as time goes on!

Love,

>From: AppleDTP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Re: G'day

>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:33:04 -0700

>

>Hi there!

>I have to comment on two things... one is that I've heard that it is

>the most oppressive religions that spread the fastest! Religions (or

>should I say belief systems), which encourage free -thought do not

>spread like wild fire. Why? Because free thinkers do not need to

>congregate to get the approval of the group.

>

>I am not the creator of 12-step-free. This discussion group was started

>by Ken Ragge. Author of " The Real AA " . I did the deprogramming site.

>Apple

>

>

> > I read a posting recently that predicted groups such as this one will

> > grow by leaps and bounds and aa, with its archaic doctrines, aa will

> > eventually dissolve and fade away into the past. I hope I am alive to

> > see aa crumble. Nothing would give me greater pleasure...on second

> > thought...oh, just kidding!

> >

> > For those of us who have tried to find a way to cope with our many

> > different afflictions, this is a wonderful place to find at least a

> > start. Thanks, Apple! (Apple created this site.)

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Scream your mind

>Be as loud as you want at FortuneCity.com

>http://clickhere./click/366

>

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

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- Simplifying group communications

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  • 7 years later...

Hi Geraldine. You will learn an abundance on here. I

have Hashi too along with adrenal fatigue, low

ferritin, and that's all I know of for now.

Welcome,

--- Geraldine wrote:

> Hi

>

> I am a newbie from Australia. Diagnosed with Hashi

> last Oct (also have

> PCOS) and Adrenal fatigue.

> Have not posted to a yahoo group before so I hope I

> dont stuff it up :)

> Looking forward to learning alot from you guys.

>

> Geraldine

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Finding fabulous fares is fun.

Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel

bargains.

http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

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Hi Geraldine. You will learn an abundance on here. I

have Hashi too along with adrenal fatigue, low

ferritin, and that's all I know of for now.

Welcome,

--- Geraldine wrote:

> Hi

>

> I am a newbie from Australia. Diagnosed with Hashi

> last Oct (also have

> PCOS) and Adrenal fatigue.

> Have not posted to a yahoo group before so I hope I

> dont stuff it up :)

> Looking forward to learning alot from you guys.

>

> Geraldine

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Finding fabulous fares is fun.

Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel

bargains.

http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

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