Re: Synanon Re-incarnated?

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 7/31/99 -0700, you wrote:

>

>Hi List --

>

> I just had a look at the following website for a live-in

> " treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it sounds like a

>real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the mental health of

>its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

>

>http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

>

>~Rita

Interesting. And note how they admit up front that most of it is coerced,

that very few substance users seek help- so they must be treating people

who don't want to be there. I suppose being " allowed " to attend AA after

two years of that would be a pleasure. Excuse me while I grind my teeth for

a while.

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 7/31/99 -0700, you wrote:

>

>Hi List --

>

> I just had a look at the following website for a live-in

> " treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it sounds like a

>real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the mental health of

>its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

>

>http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

>

>~Rita

Interesting. And note how they admit up front that most of it is coerced,

that very few substance users seek help- so they must be treating people

who don't want to be there. I suppose being " allowed " to attend AA after

two years of that would be a pleasure. Excuse me while I grind my teeth for

a while.

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 7/31/99 -0700, you wrote:

>

>Hi List --

>

> I just had a look at the following website for a live-in

> " treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it sounds like a

>real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the mental health of

>its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

>

>http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

>

>~Rita

Interesting. And note how they admit up front that most of it is coerced,

that very few substance users seek help- so they must be treating people

who don't want to be there. I suppose being " allowed " to attend AA after

two years of that would be a pleasure. Excuse me while I grind my teeth for

a while.

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

[Guest guest]

I've seen this before. There is a certain amount of fuss brewing about

parents who " kidnap " their children and have them sent to places like

this. A couple here was charged with child abuse for having their

child kidnapped (by third parties, who put the boy in handcuffs) and

sent to Jamaica for a similar program. The whole matter was settled in

some manner, in particular because the boy said the program was the

best thing that ever happened to him. I've seen a TV show where people

debated pro and con whether this was an okay thing to do, and again,

they had a boy who had been treated in this manner who said that it was

wonderful, and he was much improved. I got the website you found from

either the TV show or because of the newspaper coverage of the case

here.

Hard to tell anything about the kids' mental health when you only have

media coverage to go by. I tend to think they must have become robots,

but no one is going to put it to the test as long as they behave

themselves.

<7nvm4v$rdr-egroups> wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6717

>

> Hi List --

>

> I just had a look at the following website for a live-in

> " treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it sounds like

a

> real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the mental health of

> its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

>

> http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

>

> ~Rita

>

[Guest guest]

I also check out this sight last night. Traces of snobbishness was the

first thing I noted in their induction process. 'We'll have to put you and

your problem person through alot of hoops before we decide you can be

associated with us.' Then it goes into the brainwashing techniques that

others on this list have been informing us about.

I find myself thinking that these days, since at least in the USA, you still

have certain rights concerning incarceration, there seems to be a more

subtle way of 'jailing' people who think differently. I appears that in our

country brainwashing is at work just as strong as in other countries only we

make it legitimate by putting it under a self-help / medical / treatment

umbrella. Getting scary.

Jan

Re: Synanon Re-incarnated?

>I've seen this before. There is a certain amount of fuss brewing about

>parents who " kidnap " their children and have them sent to places like

>this. A couple here was charged with child abuse for having their

>child kidnapped (by third parties, who put the boy in handcuffs) and

>sent to Jamaica for a similar program. The whole matter was settled in

>some manner, in particular because the boy said the program was the

>best thing that ever happened to him. I've seen a TV show where people

>debated pro and con whether this was an okay thing to do, and again,

>they had a boy who had been treated in this manner who said that it was

>wonderful, and he was much improved. I got the website you found from

>either the TV show or because of the newspaper coverage of the case

>here.

>

>Hard to tell anything about the kids' mental health when you only have

>media coverage to go by. I tend to think they must have become robots,

>but no one is going to put it to the test as long as they behave

>themselves.

>

><7nvm4v$rdr-egroups> wrote:

>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6717

>>

>> Hi List --

>>

>> I just had a look at the following website for a live-in

>> " treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it sounds like

>a

>> real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the mental health of

>> its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

>>

>> http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

>>

>> ~Rita

>>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

At 07:20 AM 8/1/99 -0400, you wrote:

>>I've seen this before. There is a certain amount of fuss brewing about

>>parents who " kidnap " their children and have them sent to places like

>>this. A couple here was charged with child abuse for having their

>>child kidnapped (by third parties, who put the boy in handcuffs) and

>>sent to Jamaica for a similar program. The whole matter was settled in

>>some manner, in particular because the boy said the program was the

>>best thing that ever happened to him. I've seen a TV show where people

>>debated pro and con whether this was an okay thing to do, and again,

>>they had a boy who had been treated in this manner who said that it was

>>wonderful, and he was much improved. I got the website you found from

>>either the TV show or because of the newspaper coverage of the case

>>here.

>>

>>Hard to tell anything about the kids' mental health when you only have

>>media coverage to go by. I tend to think they must have become robots,

>>but no one is going to put it to the test as long as they behave

>>themselves.

There is some dynamic operating where people who are kidnapped or abducted

eventually start to identify with their captors. I think people who have

been held as hostages and eventually freed often have formed an emotional

bond with their captors and find being released again traumatic. With the

kids who say this is the best thing that ever happened to them, (about 12

step treatment that they did not initially agree to have) I do wonder.

These are young people at an impressionable age held who are for a couple

of months, maybe longer, isolated from their friends and peers and with the

same brainwashing messages repeated at them all day every day.

Joe Berenbaum

mailto:joe-b@...

[Guest guest]

Yes, you bring up a very interesting point (or points). Even adults

who are kidnapped tend to identify with the captors (witness

Hearst), and indeed, how are they to be assured that they will be fed

and cared for if they don't? It must be the same thing with children

that are abused.

Hillary Clinton gave an interview about her ability to put up with

Bill's infidelities that was published today, apparently it was a

surprise to everyone. She said that he was abused as a young child

(which I don't find hard to believe, given what I know about his

background). She also said that at some point the victim of abuse has

to take responsibility to change his own behavior. I can agree with

all of this.

It's problematic to me, though, that we assume that people will be able

to identify what responsible adult behavior consists of after they have

grown up. If they have suffered abuse at a very early age, perhaps

their ability to do so has been damaged. I don't know how old

Hearst was when she was kidnapped, but evidently old enough to return

to values instilled in childhood and realize that what she did with the

Symbionese Liberation Army was wrong. What about people like the

Menendez brothers (assuming their stories of abuse are true)? I find

it difficult to deal with questions like this.

Many people assert that personality is formed very early, and can't be

changed thereafter. Is that true? I'm doubtful. One of the things I

draw on to reach that conclusion is my knowledge of language. It's

clear that children who are brought to live in countries that do not

speak their native tongue pick up the new language pretty quickly.

(This is one of the reasons that the USA's bilingual education policy

is so f**ked up.) It's also true, however, that you don't have to be a

small child to exercise this ability. I've heard, or read, or been

told that people up to age 19 can learn to speak foreign languages

flawlessly, and I believe it. First, because when I was 18 I lived in

Germany for a year, and I learned to speak German flawlessly

(fehlerfrei). Second, because I've known people who came to the States

at about that age, and learned to speak English flawlessly. This all

makes me think that personality can be molded long after age 3. If

language ability can be, why not personality?

The conclusion I draw from this is that first of all, goes without

saying, it's ridiculous to draw a line at age 18 and say people are not

responsible for what they do before this age, but they are afterwards.

(Although the draconian crackdown on juvenile crime and imposition of

the death penalty on juveniles in the United States shows that there is

a trend against this belief.) But secondly, how do we decide when

people do become responsible? What do we take into account? The

Menendez brothers case is one that has always troubled me a lot. How

on earth, if they were telling the truth, were they ever supposed to

develop values that matched those of society at large? And if they

weren't able to, then what is society supposed to do about it?

These are questions that I would like to be able to answer, but can't.

If anyone else has any insights, I would welcome them.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6761

> At 07:20 AM 8/1/99 -0400, you wrote:

>

> There is some dynamic operating where people who are kidnapped or

abducted

> eventually start to identify with their captors. I think people who

have

> been held as hostages and eventually freed often have formed an

emotional

> bond with their captors and find being released again traumatic. With

the

> kids who say this is the best thing that ever happened to them,

(about 12

> step treatment that they did not initially agree to have) I do wonder.

> These are young people at an impressionable age held who are for a

couple

> of months, maybe longer, isolated from their friends and peers and

with the

> same brainwashing messages repeated at them all day every day.

>

> Joe Berenbaum

> mailto:joe-b@...

>

[Guest guest]

I want to comment on Habitat website at length at a later

time. reading the sadistic text made me alternately

furious and viscerally upset.

things such as,

" previous attempts at rehabilitation have either failed "

" the judicial system decrees that an individual commit to

treatment "

" are routed through our Induction Department "

" Treatment is a highly controlled and structured phase

during which residents are closely supervised ... leaving

no time for fruitless endeavors. "

" The third tool, the encounter group, also known as

the " game " (played three times a week), is the program's

most effective and essential tool. It is the venue where

peer pressure is best exerted ... "

[this is the kicker. The GAME. But really, although

severe, the setup differs little from the overall attitude,

religion and methodology of steppist.]

My personal wake-up was while at a treatment facility in No

cal. I had a moment of clarity that this whole deal was In-

sane, the AA and steppists were sick and that I was beating

myself up with this crap.

the needed 'proof' came as I listened while fellow

residents recounted stories of Delancey Steet program

[sic?] which has apparantly a former Synanon leader as

program founder. The horror stories of this multiple year

program were undeniable.

There I was in another program, not a strident, but

essentiall the same, a soul-murder factory. It made no

sense but I was doing

it anyway, over and over again, somehow compelled to lend

credibility and zombie-like, push myself to attend

meetings,

to assume the position and take lashings from my sponsor.

Not much different from the Trance I would enter when on

drinking binges.

I recall one therapist once saying to me, " Well, yes

, when I first read the Big Book I wanted to re-write

it too. "

I was pissed. I thought, and wish i had said aloud, " But I

don't want to re-write the Big Book. I want to rip it to

shreds and through the piece of shit in the trash! "

Habitat. DISGUSTING. God help us reach the day when all

these abusive joints are shut down.

-GP

Synanon Re-incarnated?

Hi List --

I just had a look at the following website for a live-

in

" treatment " facility (duration: approx. 2 YEARS!!) and it

sounds like a

real S & M trip for the inmates. One wonders about the

mental health of

its " treatees " upon release. Anyone care to comment?

http://www.habilitat.org/program.html

~Rita

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