warfarin advice

July 17, 2002

<< Since then I have been on Warfarin and Digoxin, but the Warfarin never

seems

to be the same for 2 weeks on end, which means that I can't have a

cardioversion. Some weeks it is really high, others really low. As you can

imagine this is really getting me down. If you have any experiences to

share I would be really grateful. >>

I've been on Coumadin for some years now having been on warfarin at first,

which is the generic version of Coumadin. My INR results were very variable

on the warfarin, so they switched me to Coumadin and the wild swings stopped

happening. I do occasionally have some variations, but effects on your INR

can come from many different directions, especially changes in diet. Perhaps

a change to Coumadin would help you as it did me.

Brenta

July 17, 2002

In a message dated 7/17/2002 4:51:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

harrislesley@... writes:

<< By the way, I have no symptoms of this condition and was totally surprised

to be told that I am always in Afib. Particularly as I feel healthier than

I have ever done. So, not so bad as a lot of you and I feel a bit guilty

moaning. >>

If you have no symptoms and feel healthier than ever, you may want to

consider the option of staying in afib, especially since it seems you may

have been in it for a long time and cardioversions do not always produce a

lasting conversion. Your absence of symptoms supports that idea. My older

brother, in permanent afib, had been in permanent afib for at least twenty to

thirty years when he was diagnosed, according to his doctor. Because his

doctor believes he has been in afib for a very long time, he didn't want to

try cardioversion because he believed that was more appropriate for people

who have had afib for a shorter time. My brother, like you, has no symptoms

now and lives a very active, normal life with his afib controlled by Digoxin

and Atenolol. You might want to ask your doctor about statistics regarding

the success of cardioversion, especially for patients who may have been in

afib a long time.

Regarding the Warfarin (Coumadin), your INR number may be varying widely

because of changes in diet or because of other medications you are taking.

Because vitamin K promotes a lower INR by decreasing the effect of Coumadin,

you may be causing the changes by eating more green vegetables, high in

vitamin K, at some times than at others. My cardiologist told me that I

could eat anything I want, but I should keep my salad and vegetable intake

constant for a constant INR. Also, when I took ten days of Amoxicillin last

summer, my INR shot up to 3.4 from 2.5 for no reason other than the

antibiotic, that I could see. If you are starting and stopping meds, the

changes could be influencing your INR. Finally, I have read that the bodies

of some people manufacture vitamin K for reasons that are not understood. If

you keep your diet and med intake constant, your body might be the culprit in

increasing the vitamin K at times.

At least your doctor is making sure that you are anticoagulated before trying

cardioversion. I have read of some people who go to the emergency room and

are cardioverted right away after taking no anticoagulants. My cardiologist

said it's important to avoid cardioversion without anticoagulation because of

the possibility of stroke.

Good luck, and let us know how you're doing.

in sinus in Seattle (56 days)

July 17, 2002

> Oh, I've just worked out how to reply. Thanks for both answers.

I keep a food diary, and do try to eat a green vegetable every day.

I was trying (successfully) to lose weight but have decided that as

of this week I will maintain and see if that helps. I will certainly

mention the drug aspect to my doctor.

Any ideas if menstruation affects Warfarin? Which herbal teas affect

it? I've been drinking lots as I have always had problems with too

much caffiene.

Thanks again, from the sunny (for once) UK.

___________________________________________

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July 17, 2002

I did seem to be lucky when I was on Wafarin, my INR did not change much

except with intoduction of meds some of which had very big effects.

My Father on the other hand has terrible problemsnm abd diet is usaully to

blame. the hospital alway try and blame this on Alcohol but I know he does not

drink.

I think you will have to do some detictive work and see what is causing the

problems.

I bleieve your in the UK may I suggest that you asked for Black Neddles as they

dont scar so much.

C

>

> > Oh, I've just worked out how to reply. Thanks for both answers.

> I keep a food diary, and do try to eat a green vegetable every day.

> I was trying (successfully) to lose weight but have decided that as

> of this week I will maintain and see if that helps. I will certainly

> mention the drug aspect to my doctor.

>

> Any ideas if menstruation affects Warfarin? Which herbal teas affect

> it? I've been drinking lots as I have always had problems with too

> much caffiene.

>

> Thanks again, from the sunny (for once) UK.

> ___________________________________________

> > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

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>

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>

> Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

July 17, 2002

,

I, like you, was surprised when the doctor diagnosed me with Afib. I was put

on atenolol, digoxin and coumadin. They would do a cardioversion as soon as

my INR stabilized. I had Protime tests each week for probably three months,

until at last I had two weeks that were between 2 and 3 INR. There is a big

risk of blood clots if they do the cardioversion when your INR is too low or

too high. I was in good health prior to Afib and then had a year of not

being able to do anything. Now with a pacemaker my life is returning to

normal. Hope this helps. I never had a problem with foods that affected the

INR, but the doctor gave me a booklet which listed all the foods to avoid. I

had to give up coffee! That really hurt!

Irene

Warfarin Advice

>

> I tried to email you all a few days ago, but the message bounced back.

Hope

> it works this time. I am a 52 year old woman living in England, who was

> diagnosed with Afib whilst under going an operation for breast cancer

about

> 3 months ago.

>

> Since then I have been on Warfarin and Digoxin, but the Warfarin never

seems

> to be the same for 2 weeks on end, which means that I can't have a

> cardioversion. Some weeks it is really high, others really low. As you

can

> imagine this is really getting me down. If you have any experiences to

> share I would be really grateful.

>

> By the way, I have no symptoms of this condition and was totally surprised

> to be told that I am always in Afib. Particularly as I feel healthier

than

> I have ever done. So, not so bad as a lot of you and I feel a bit guilty

> moaning.

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

> Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

> For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

> Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

July 17, 2002

Coagulation rate is very sensitive to Vitamin K. Leafy green veggies and I

think broccoli and brussel sprouts are high in vitamin K and probably other

vegatebles. I recommend reviewing your diet for Vitamin K and see if this may

be a factor. I forgot to mention that Vitamin K increases coagulation

rate;ie, lowers the count.

Guy in Iowa

PS. I am not that computer literate and don't seem to be getting the first

message repeated in my response. What am I doing wrong?

July 17, 2002

>

> I am a 52 year old woman living in England, who was

> diagnosed with Afib whilst under going an operation for breast

cancer about

> 3 months ago.

>

> Since then I have been on Warfarin and Digoxin, but the Warfarin

never seems

> to be the same for 2 weeks on end, which means that I can't have a

> cardioversion. Some weeks it is really high, others really low.

Hi, Lesley,

I hope things are going well with your cancer situation. I wonder if

the afib was brought on by worry about it - it seems to be not

unusual for people to wind up with afib after some very stressful

event.

I am just an ignorant layperson, but my two cents -

A couple of thoughts about cardioversion. The normal sinus rhythm

obtained by cardioversion generally doesn't seem to last long for

most people. I would think that trying to get back to and maintain

sinus rhythm by meds and/or meds in conjunction with cardioversion

might be the better thing for you and your doctor to aim for.

There are a bunch of very promising meds such as tikosyn (dofetilide).

Also, I believe they can do a minimally invasive procedure - maybe it

is some type of ultrasound (trans esophagial???)- to see if there are

actually any clots that have formed in your heart. If there aren't,

they can go ahead with the cardioversion regardless of what your

blood results are about the warfarin.

Digoxin has a somewhat bad name in here. There are thoughts that it

may promote a progression to permanent afib. You might ask about a

beta blocker instead, as that also gives the effect of slowing the

heart but has the added benefit of helping to suppress extra beats.

July 17, 2002

It is my understanding that many herbal teas contain more caffine than coffee.

Also green tea is loaded with vit.K and will cause problems if you are taking

Warfarin.

lesley_in_oxford wrote:

> Oh, I've just worked out how to reply. Thanks for both answers.

I keep a food diary, and do try to eat a green vegetable every day.

I was trying (successfully) to lose weight but have decided that as

of this week I will maintain and see if that helps. I will certainly

mention the drug aspect to my doctor.

Any ideas if menstruation affects Warfarin? Which herbal teas affect

it? I've been drinking lots as I have always had problems with too

much caffiene.

Thanks again, from the sunny (for once) UK.

___________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

July 17, 2002

In a message dated 7/17/2002 2:04:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

guygooch@... writes:

<< PS. I am not that computer literate and don't seem to be getting the first

message repeated in my response. What am I doing wrong?

>>

Guy,

With the AOL setup, you must click on and highlight the text you want to

repeat by dragging the mouse and cursor over that text until it appears

black. Then click on " Reply " and the repeated text should appear in the new

window of the reply e-mail form you will send.

July 17, 2002

I had my first, I think, afib episode on June 15. After taking Warfarin for 10

days my INR did not change. My heart rate was never less than 180 and a

cardioversion was done after the trans esophagial ultrasound showed there were

no blood clots in the heart on June 26. Been in NSR ever since.

Still taking warfarin and my hypertension med Verapamil. The rapid heart rate

really made me feel bad, but since the cardioversion I feel great. I don't know

how long the cardioversion will last. I know we all respond differently to

meds, procedures, etc. but does anyone know how long do you have to stay in NSR

after a cardioversion before you can call it a success?

Re: Warfarin Advice