Re: Why is chelation controversial?

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

I don't know that answers to your qeustions. In fact I am anxious to hear

the answers myself. I have a 3 yr old daughter with autism and hope to

someday soon do chelation therapy with her. But in the mean time we started

giving her enzymes with her food and have had fabulous results. Have you

tried enzymes? We were on the GFCF diet and after starting enzymes added

back all foods and are still having fabulous inprovements with her almost

daily.

J

[Guest guest]

Hi, Stacey!

You are definitely headed in the right direction when you say you are waiting to

chelate until you feel better informed and more comfortable with it. It can be

complicated when the child starts having complications, such as behavioral

problems, rashes, etc. Learn as much as you can first so you don't make your

child sicker, which can happen if you don't chelate properly. You will find all

the information you need right here.

Just remember that very few doctors really know what they are doing when it

comes to chelation, so that it why it is so controversial. Doctors are people

too, and people aren't always reasonable, well-educated or open-minded. People

are often lazy, as some doctors are, and can't be bothered to take the time to

educate themselves about something that they don't understand. This is not

something most doctors learn about in medical school, which is a whole topic in

itself. In fact, environmental medicine tends to focus on carcinogens in the

work environment or chemical exposures, all things that are very different that

toxic substances being injected into infants and young children in the form of

vaccines. Doctors in general are basically told, beginning in medical school:

diseases bad, vaccines good. Go figure that such a simplistic idea would become

the mantra of Western medicine given the complexity of human evolution.

Best of luck to you,

[ ] Why is chelation controversial?

Hi group

I am a rather new person on the board and I do not post very much. Just for

the record, I have read the files section for the group and have not found an

answer to my question, so I shall post here.

I am a sahm to a 2 1/2 boy with autism. I do not have a college degree and I

am learning as I go along. I spend the majority of my free time researching. I

have found the whole mercury thing to be compelling and scary. I follow the

threads for this group with great interest, but find myself not really

understanding all the technical stuff. I am interested in chelation for my son

and we have had the hair test. I applied the counting rules that I found in the

files and find him to be heavy metal toxic.

Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this post. If

everyone is making good progress with chelation, what is it about chelation that

makes it so controversial? What is dangerous about it? Where are the stories

of people who do not make progress?

I am just a mom. Worried sick for my son and I would move heaven and earth to

help him. But as a mother, I want to know all the facts about chelation, good

and bad. On this board, all the facts indicate chelating as the thing to do. I

have even had a couple of people say to me " Oh, your child is so young, you

definately need to start chelating him now! " Well, yes, I would like to but

honestly, I am still on the fence and would like to know why it is considered to

be controversial.

BTW, we do have the DMSA but I have not tried it because I do not feel that I

am well informed about chelation. What would I do if I did something to further

harm my child. It's bad enough that he's been injected with this stuff in the

first place. I know in my heart that my son was injured by vaccines. I also

know that without chelation, it wil probably not do us much good to target other

areas like gut bugs. As I understand it, with mercury, even if you treat gut

bugs, they will just come back unless you remove the mercury.

Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who cares to reply to my question. I

realize this post is long and I hope that I have not taken up too much of

anyone;s time. After following this group for a couple of months, I have

learned that there are alot of informed people here, but sometimes the group

comes off as " unfriendly " to new members. Even though I have read the files for

the group, I am still looking for the human connection to my questions.

Hoping I have not offended anyone here-

stacey

[Guest guest]

Hello Stacey,

I'm having some oddness with fomat here, so I am going to mark my

responses with an arrow,

==> like this.

>I am a rather new person on the board and I do not post very much. Just

for the record, I have read the files section for the group and have not

found an answer to my question, so I shall post here.

>

>I am a sahm to a 2 1/2 boy with autism.

==> okay, well, since you are asking risky questions, so will I.

What is " sahm " . I don't know or have any kids with ASD, and I tried

to " figure out on my own " various words used on this list for a

really long time (rather than ask).

I do not have a college degree and I am learning as I go along.

==> I would think this is likely to HELP in your understanding.

I spend the majority of my free time researching. I have found the whole

mercury thing to be compelling and scary. I follow the threads for this

group with great interest, but find myself not really understanding all the

technical stuff.

==> fortunately, you don't have to understand much of the technical

stuff IMO. Just my opinion.

I am interested in chelation for my son and we have had the hair test. I

applied the counting rules that I found in the files and find him to be

heavy metal toxic.

>

>Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this post. If

everyone is making good progress with chelation, what is it about chelation

that makes it so controversial?

==> ahhh. lots of things. conventional/mainstream medicine (or, as

Andy would call it " the AMA religion " ) does not believe in mercury

poisoning to start with. So why would they believe in chelation?

The American Dental Assoc upholds the safety of amalgam fillings.

(This is where they put mercury IN PEOPLE'S MOUTHS.) And, then

we have the vaccine manufacturers and the entire public health

mission of vaccinating everyone-- If mercury in vaccines leads

to autism, then they might have some responsibility for the matter.

They might have to change <gasp>. They also might have to pay.

(Many lawsuits are in progress. Depending on how these go, there

will be either some more or ZILLIONS more.) We are talking about

VERY VERY big bucks here. Let's see, what else

makes chelation controversial? Geez--everything. I already

said that allopathic/mainstream medicine doesn't believe in

mercury poisoning.... except for a few cases like extreme

current exposure. Well, let's look at what the " standard

thinking " is on autism. My understanding is that autism is

SUPPOSEDLY thought to be a genetic disease, and incurable.

So, well, why the heck would anyone try to treat it? We are

all supposed to nod our heads and say " oh, yes, I see. Thanks

for sharing your wisdom. I see it is incurable so I'll just

accept it. " Not nice. So you see, we have all violated the

guidelines for trusting in medicine as an authoritative and

final source of infomation. <gasp> And herein lies another

big " problem " with chelation: " medicine " appears to generally

think that only professionals, using some standard they feel

good about at the moment, can evaluate data and come up with

reasonable ideas. Depending on who you ask, you will hear

various different ways that chelation is UNPROVEN: lack of

peer reviewed articles; lack of double-blind studies; etc.

To suggest that regular people with problems can decide FOR

THEMSELVES what to do is sorta heretical, at least to some.

To think that you and I and others on this list can evaluate

" anedotal evidence " is likewise very " fishy " . I don't know

if this actually helped, but those are my thoughts, offhand.

What is dangerous about it?

==> I don't think I know ALL that is dangerous about it, but

I think of 3 areas of risk:

1. the chelation agents themselves. DMSA has side effects

and risks, for exmaple. Many posts with kids with stuff

noses etc.... You can read in ANDY_INDEX about neutropenia

(rare but dangerous side effect of DMSA.)

2. heavy metal detox is " stressful " . I think I mean 'inherently'

stressful here. Tough on kidneys, liver, etc. This is why

we do it slowly

3. people can (and do) get poisoned by redistribution of

mercury -- that is, it is possible to just " move around " the

mercury. In this case the person is being poisoned by the

mercury ALREADY PRESENT in their body. very nasty.

Where are the stories of people who do not make progress?

==> there are a FEW stories in LOVE_LETTERS of people who had no

change or negative effects. These are marked in the index to help

you find them. (Look to the right of the name for something in

parenthesis, such as (stopped due to negative effects).) There

are only a few in LOVE_LETTERS. You could also look at

http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml if you want to read

scarry stories. Andy posts this URL a lot when he is pitching

the 3 to 4 hour dosing. I also read some lists for adults

with mercury poisoning, and there are some people who have

tried things which caused harm there. On THIS list, I think

there are SOME cases where chelation has bad results, but

not many. But I don't want to say none.

>I am just a mom. Worried sick for my son and I would move heaven and

earth to help him. But as a mother, I want to know all the facts about

chelation, good and bad. On this board, all the facts indicate chelating

as the thing to do. I have even had a couple of people say to me " Oh,

your child is so young, you definately need to start chelating him now! "

Well, yes, I would like to but honestly, I am still on the fence and would

like to know why it is considered to be controversial.

==> hurray for you I hope you will keep reading until YOU are

ready to do chelation -- if ever. I think that reading this list

over time would be likely to alter one's viewpoint--- even if only

in that the issues and questions and problems should become very

familiar. Then, if and when you are ready, you can move heaven

and earth

>BTW, we do have the DMSA but I have not tried it because I do not feel

that I am well informed about chelation. What would I do if I did

something to further harm my child. It's bad enough that he's been

injected with this stuff in the first place. I know in my heart that my

son was injured by vaccines. I also know that without chelation, it wil

probably not do us much good to target other areas like gut bugs. As I

understand it, with mercury, even if you treat gut bugs, they will just

come back unless you remove the mercury.

==> I actually think you can make positive changes in health by

treating mercury-induced symptoms. It is a band-aid, but still has

effect. Supplements and yeast treatments and digestive enzymes

and so forth-- can be very helpful. I am thinking of the MANY

adults with mercury poisoning who often " manage " the symptoms

for MANY YEARS (or for a lifetime).

>Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who cares to reply to my question. I

realize this post is long and I hope that I have not taken up too much of

anyone;s time. After following this group for a couple of months, I have

learned that there are alot of informed people here, but sometimes the

group comes off as " unfriendly " to new members.

==> I'm really sorry to hear that.

Even though I have read the files for the group, I am still looking for the

human connection to my questions.

>

>Hoping I have not offended anyone here-

==> I sure hope not. Often controversies that " break out " are really

unpredictable to me -- seems " random " . And these controversies do

inhibit discussion. Which is too bad.

Moria

[i'm treating mySELF for mercury toxicity]

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Stacey [mailto:staceydaniel@...]

> I have found the whole mercury thing

> to be compelling and scary.

Keep reading it will become less scary.

> Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this

> post. If everyone is making good progress with chelation, what

> is it about chelation that makes it so controversial?

I think this quote fits:

" All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is

violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. " (Schoepenhouer)

What is

> dangerous about it? Where are the stories of people who do not

> make progress?

Possible regression and a few other things, Kirkmans labs has a downloadable

catalog at their website that has a page in it that lists some of the

" dangers " they probably have just the " dangers " somewhere *on* the site,

too. Andy often says that if there is no progress then you should stop and

start back trying to figure out what the problem is.

> I have learned that there are alot of

> informed people here, but sometimes the group comes off as

> " unfriendly " to new members. Even though I have read the files

> for the group, I am still looking for the human connection to my

> questions.

No one has meant (I don't think anyway) to come off as unfriendly, and the

files do not cover *everything* even though they do cover a lot.

Tana

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

Welcome to the list. It's considered contraversial by some for a couple

reasons:

Those who say that vaccines and amalgam don't/can't cause problems say its

contraversial , not because of the treatment but because of the allegation of

the sources of the problems needing treatment.

Chelation can refer to the use of several different substances for chelation of

different things. Some doctors use inappropriate chelators or dosages or

schedules causing some individuals to get worse...like using the lead chelation

guidelines for mercury toxicity, using adult guidelines for a child, or trying

to chelate someone who still has amalgam fillings in place.

Some say autism is permanent and therefore consider contraversial any approach

off which they personally don't make a buck (often claiming various approaches

give parents false hope).

Some don't look at the science or the individuals who've tried it, just blindly

labelling it as contraversial.

Hope this helps.

S

On Mon, 04 March 2002, " Stacey " wrote:

>

> <html><body>

>

>

> <tt>

> Hi group<BR>

> <BR>

> I am a rather new person on the board and I do not post very much. & nbsp; Just

for the record, I have read the files section for the group and have not found

an answer to my question, so I shall post here. & nbsp; <BR>

> <BR>

> I am a sahm to a 2 1/2 boy with autism. & nbsp; I do not have a college degree

and & nbsp; I am learning as I go along. & nbsp; I spend the majority of my free

time researching. & nbsp; I have found the whole mercury thing to be compelling

and scary. & nbsp; I follow the threads for this group with great interest, but

find myself not really understanding all the technical stuff. & nbsp; I am

interested in chelation for my son and we have had the hair test. & nbsp; I

applied the counting rules that I found in the files and find him to be heavy

metal toxic.<BR>

> <BR>

> Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this post. & nbsp;

If everyone is making good progress with chelation, what is it about chelation

that makes it so controversial? & nbsp; What is dangerous about it? & nbsp; Where

are the stories of people who do not make progress? & nbsp; <BR>

> <BR>

> I am just a mom. & nbsp; Worried sick for my son and I would move heaven and

earth to help him. & nbsp; But as a mother, I want to know all the facts about

chelation, good and bad. & nbsp; On this board, all the facts indicate chelating

as the thing to do. & nbsp; I have even had a couple of people say to me & quot;

Oh, your child is so young, you definately need to start chelating him

now! & quot; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Well, yes, I would like to but honestly, I am still

on the fence and would like to know why it is considered to be controversial.

<BR>

> <BR>

> BTW, we do have the DMSA but I have not tried it because I do not feel that I

am well informed about chelation. & nbsp; What would I do if I did something to

further harm my child. & nbsp; It's bad enough that he's been injected with this

stuff in the first place. & nbsp; I know in my heart that my son was injured by

vaccines. & nbsp; I also know that without chelation, it wil probably not do us

much good to target other areas like gut bugs. & nbsp; As I understand it, with

mercury, even if you treat gut bugs, they will just come back unless you remove

the mercury.<BR>

> <BR>

> Anyway, & nbsp; thanks in advance to anyone who cares to reply to my

question. & nbsp; I realize this post is long and I hope that I have not taken up

too much of anyone;s time. & nbsp; After following this group for a couple of

months, I have learned that there are alot of informed people here, but

sometimes the group comes off as & quot;unfriendly & quot; to new members. & nbsp;

Even though I have read the files for the group, I am still looking for the

human connection to my questions. & nbsp; <BR>

> <BR>

> Hoping I have not offended anyone here-<BR>

> <BR>

> stacey<BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

>

[Guest guest]

Moira,

Athough this was not a question posed to me, I can only assume that SAHM

means " Stay At Home Mother " .

Roxanne

*************************************

> I am a sahm to a 2 1/2 boy with Autism.

>

> ==> okay, well, since you are asking risky questions, so will I.

> What is " sahm " . I don't know or have any kids with ASD, and I tried

> to " figure out on my own " various words used on this list for a

> really long time (rather than ask).

>

[Guest guest]

Stacey-

If it's any consolation, I am in about the same boat with you. I'm

also a stay at home mom and my son is almost 3. He doesn't have a

diagnosis in place yet, he is labeled as developmentally delayed, but

we do work with the local CARD and for school purposes he is

considered autistic. I have been reading this list for some time and

we're very seriously considering chelation. In fact, just yesterday

I took my son to a new doctor(an osteopath) for an initial visit. We

walked out of his office with the test kit for elemental analysis

from DDI and a follow-up appointment for 2 weeks from now. This

doctor is not affiliated with DAN but is interested in what we are

doing and seems genuinely willing to help. My son was upset during

the appointment yesterday and today the office called us to see how

he was...that is the first time I've ever had a doctor's office do

that!! Needless to say, I'm THRILLED to have found this doctor and

think that this is probably one of the best things that's happened

for us in the past year.

There are definitely some very well informed people on this board and

lurking has pointed me in some positive directions. I think most

negativity can be attributed to stress...especially when most of the

folks here have " mainstream " practitioners telling us that we are

chasing the latest fads and jumping at every promise of a cure. OF

COURSE WE ARE!!!! These are our kids and everyone here would move

heaven and earth for them.

Anyway, good luck to you!

> Hi group

>

> I am a rather new person on the board and I do not post very much.

Just for the record, I have read the files section for the group and

have not found an answer to my question, so I shall post here.

>

> I am a sahm to a 2 1/2 boy with autism. I do not have a college

degree and I am learning as I go along. I spend the majority of my

free time researching. I have found the whole mercury thing to be

compelling and scary. I follow the threads for this group with great

interest, but find myself not really understanding all the technical

stuff. I am interested in chelation for my son and we have had the

hair test. I applied the counting rules that I found in the files

and find him to be heavy metal toxic.

>

> Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this

post. If everyone is making good progress with chelation, what is it

about chelation that makes it so controversial? What is dangerous

about it? Where are the stories of people who do not make progress?

>

> I am just a mom. Worried sick for my son and I would move heaven

and earth to help him. But as a mother, I want to know all the facts

about chelation, good and bad. On this board, all the facts indicate

chelating as the thing to do. I have even had a couple of people say

to me " Oh, your child is so young, you definately need to start

chelating him now! " Well, yes, I would like to but honestly, I am

still on the fence and would like to know why it is considered to be

controversial.

>

> BTW, we do have the DMSA but I have not tried it because I do not

feel that I am well informed about chelation. What would I do if I

did something to further harm my child. It's bad enough that he's

been injected with this stuff in the first place. I know in my heart

that my son was injured by vaccines. I also know that without

chelation, it wil probably not do us much good to target other areas

like gut bugs. As I understand it, with mercury, even if you treat

gut bugs, they will just come back unless you remove the mercury.

>

> Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who cares to reply to my

question. I realize this post is long and I hope that I have not

taken up too much of anyone;s time. After following this group for a

couple of months, I have learned that there are alot of informed

people here, but sometimes the group comes off as " unfriendly " to new

members. Even though I have read the files for the group, I am still

looking for the human connection to my questions.

>

> Hoping I have not offended anyone here-

>

> stacey

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > Here is my question which was stated in the subject line of this

post. & nbsp; If everyone is making good progress with chelation, what

is it about chelation that makes it so controversial?

Controversial just means that some people argue about it.

Others on list have put forward many reasons this might be so.

It used to be quite controversial whether the world was round or flat.

It also used to be quite controversial whether women were responsible

enough to be permitted to vote.

The fact that there is a lot of controversy simply indicates that

there is much heated emotion - which in this case is guaranteed to be

the case since if chelation works then doctors are the primary threat

to public health in the modern world rather than being healers. As

you wouold imagine this causes quite an emotional reaction. Hence

much controversy in the face of overwhelming evidence chelation works.

Andy