Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 HI Wally, folks There are no extremely promising results wiuth using naltrexone to remove alchol cravings. ateints have even reported not only not wishing to drink, but even being unable to remember what it tastes like! In addition, the drug blocks brain receptors preventing the hit that alcohol gives, so a simple slip will not trigger binge drinking. Antabuse is an odd drug that essentiually works when it doesnt, i.e. when the person doesnt drink and hence does not get a nauseous reaction. Such nauseous reactions can be dangerous, and I understand that studies suggest that without other support Antabuse is little better than placebo, which giuven its peculiar purpose, is not surprising. Hencem, if ppl are considering drug treatment, they might wish to consider naltrexone or other new possibilities they can discuss with a doc. Pete On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:33:32 -0400 " Wally T. " wrote: > PS: assuming you want to not drink, have you ever tried going on Antabuse? I > found it helpful at one point. > > Best regards, > wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 I don't know if naltrexone is the same thing as " Revia " . I used Revia years ago. I had used Antabuse but was afraid of it. But the Revia was pretty interesting. I had absolutely no desire to drink. I don't how it works, but it did very well in my case. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? Best, Luanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? Best, Luanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? Best, Luanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous. I've known too many people who've had reactions to stuff they thought was harmless, or who didn't know alcohol was in the sauce and ended up in the ER. Also it causes liver damage. It isn't therapeutic at all. It's an aversion technique. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6423 > HI Wally, folks > > There are no extremely promising results wiuth using > naltrexone to remove alchol cravings. ateints have even > reported not only not wishing to drink, but even being > unable to remember what it tastes like! In addition, the > drug blocks brain receptors preventing the hit that alcohol > gives, so a simple slip will not trigger binge drinking. > > Antabuse is an odd drug that essentiually works when it > doesnt, i.e. when the person doesnt drink and hence does > not get a nauseous reaction. Such nauseous reactions can > be dangerous, and I understand that studies suggest that > without other support Antabuse is little better than > placebo, which giuven its peculiar purpose, is not > surprising. > > Hencem, if ppl are considering drug treatment, they might > wish to consider naltrexone or other new possibilities they > can discuss with a doc. > > Pete > > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:33:32 -0400 " Wally T. " > wrote: > > PS: assuming you want to not drink, have you ever tried going on Antabuse? I > > found it helpful at one point. > > > > Best regards, > > wally > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Hi again. Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan have similar effects. The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be caused by abstinence. I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. Björn kayleighs@... wrote: > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER treatment. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6462 > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > kayleighs@... writes: > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > Best, > Luanne > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 I read, once upon a time, that antibuse was discovered by people working at a rubber plant. Seems that many got sick if they had been drinking recently. The ingredients they were working with caused violent illness. So the ingredients were transferred to a medicine to be taken by others who wanted to stop drinking. I didn't realize it was in Denmark. I kind of figured somewhere in Ohio (where Goodyear and Firestone have their manufacturing plants) Jan Re: Antabuse Hi again. Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan have similar effects. The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be caused by abstinence. I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. Björn kayleighs@... wrote: > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER treatment. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6462 > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > kayleighs@... writes: > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > Best, > Luanne > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! http://clickhere./click/606 eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 At 11:11 PM 7/28/99 +0200, you wrote: >I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking >just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. > >Björn I'd like to see a video of THAT party! Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 It was a danish pharmacist trying to discover why workers in rubber production became sick when drinking. His name was Hald. The active substance is disulfiram. I never knew he was in Ohio. Anyway Denmark has never had any car production, so it might have been " Worlds Best " . A measure taken for prevention purposes. Which goes well with antabus. Bjørn Rio wrote: > > I read, once upon a time, that antibuse was discovered by people working at a rubber plant. Seems that many got sick if they had been drinking recently. The ingredients they were working with caused violent illness. So the ingredients were transferred to a medicine to be taken by others who wanted to stop drinking. I didn't realize it was in Denmark. I kind of figured somewhere in Ohio (where Goodyear and Firestone have their manufacturing plants) Jan Re: Antabuse Hi again. Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan have similar effects. The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be caused by abstinence. I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. Björn kayleighs@... wrote: > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER treatment. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6462 > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > kayleighs@... writes: > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > Best, > Luanne > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! http://clickhere./click/606 eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Here we go again. No it's Flagyl. Flagyl is often prescibed for Diverticulitis. Not for an STD in my experience, but for something yucky nonetheless. As you are so sick with Diverticulitis when an attack comes on, I suppose the Flagyl could be a cure for alcohol inebriation. you can barely tolerate a sip of water, much less a sip of alcohol......Or the Diverticulits is the cure for alcholism...... When bent over double and in excrutiaing pain, a drink is the last thing on your mind. I didn't eat anything solid for over a month and suffered greatly...... But the thought of Flagyl makes my gag.... Sometimes I wonder if letting the sickness run its course would have been better.... lots and lots of water and some kind of anxiety relief..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Here we go again. No it's Flagyl. Flagyl is often prescibed for Diverticulitis. Not for an STD in my experience, but for something yucky nonetheless. As you are so sick with Diverticulitis when an attack comes on, I suppose the Flagyl could be a cure for alcohol inebriation. you can barely tolerate a sip of water, much less a sip of alcohol......Or the Diverticulits is the cure for alcholism...... When bent over double and in excrutiaing pain, a drink is the last thing on your mind. I didn't eat anything solid for over a month and suffered greatly...... But the thought of Flagyl makes my gag.... Sometimes I wonder if letting the sickness run its course would have been better.... lots and lots of water and some kind of anxiety relief..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 At 03:36 PM 7/28/99 EDT, BALIHAI333@... wrote: >If you drink and are taking Antabuse, even a sip, you run the risk of >becoming violently sick. >When I took it, I was afraid to use perfume >which was probably paranoid. Perhaps not. Years ago I heard (in an AA meeting) about the possible dangers of Antabuse, that even things like paint thinner on the back of your hand or aftershave lotion on the face (the small amount of alcohol goes through the skin and into the bloodstream) can cause a reaction. ----- <http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 At 03:36 PM 7/28/99 EDT, BALIHAI333@... wrote: >If you drink and are taking Antabuse, even a sip, you run the risk of >becoming violently sick. >When I took it, I was afraid to use perfume >which was probably paranoid. Perhaps not. Years ago I heard (in an AA meeting) about the possible dangers of Antabuse, that even things like paint thinner on the back of your hand or aftershave lotion on the face (the small amount of alcohol goes through the skin and into the bloodstream) can cause a reaction. ----- <http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Hi Bjorn, I'm taking a wild guess at the Ohio connection because of the proliferation of tire making companies headquartered there. This Hald person you mention may have taken the theory to Denmark and therefore, the medical discovery coming from Denmark. Despite sometimes our passionate differences of opinion and experience on this list, I look forward to reading everyone's posts, not only to vent about AA, but because of so many new things I have learned about just about everything! Jan Re: Antabuse Hi again. Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan have similar effects. The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be caused by abstinence. I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. Björn kayleighs@... wrote: > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER treatment. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6462 > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > kayleighs@... writes: > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if one has > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > Best, > Luanne > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! http://clickhere./click/606 eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! http://clickhere./click/606 eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 If I'm not mistaken, Antabuse was developed as a result of a search for a cure for syphilis. It didn't cure syphilis, but it did induce a severe reaction in people who drank. Antabuse is closely related to Flagyll, which is prescribed for some kind of STD, I forget what, and people who are on Flagyll are warned not to drink. <004b01bed942$01432880$8214fed-@mrsy> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6508 > I read, once upon a time, that antibuse was discovered by people working at > a rubber plant. Seems that many got sick if they had been drinking > recently. The ingredients they were working with caused violent illness. > So the ingredients were transferred to a medicine to be taken by others who > wanted to stop drinking. I didn't realize it was in Denmark. I kind of > figured somewhere in Ohio (where Goodyear and Firestone have their > manufacturing plants) > > Jan > > Re: Antabuse > > > Hi again. > Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an > antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan > have similar effects. > The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. > Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of > antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my > experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there > is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be > caused by abstinence. > I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking > just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. > > Björn > > kayleighs@... wrote: > > > > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the > ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I > wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. > > I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but > most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER > treatment. > > wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6 462 > > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > kayleighs@... writes: > > > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if > one has > > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > > > Best, > > Luanne > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > [click here] > > Click Here! > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > www. - Simplifying group communications > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 If I'm not mistaken, Antabuse was developed as a result of a search for a cure for syphilis. It didn't cure syphilis, but it did induce a severe reaction in people who drank. Antabuse is closely related to Flagyll, which is prescribed for some kind of STD, I forget what, and people who are on Flagyll are warned not to drink. <004b01bed942$01432880$8214fed-@mrsy> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6508 > I read, once upon a time, that antibuse was discovered by people working at > a rubber plant. Seems that many got sick if they had been drinking > recently. The ingredients they were working with caused violent illness. > So the ingredients were transferred to a medicine to be taken by others who > wanted to stop drinking. I didn't realize it was in Denmark. I kind of > figured somewhere in Ohio (where Goodyear and Firestone have their > manufacturing plants) > > Jan > > Re: Antabuse > > > Hi again. > Antabus ( anti - abuse ) is a danish invention. Antihistamine do have an > antidotal effect in mild cases. Some psychiatric patients says Nozinan > have similar effects. > The reaction is not life thrrreatening unless you have a heart failure. > Denmark is the country in the world with the most widespread use of > antabus, but I have seldom heard of deaths. Actually none in my > experience. In big doses there is a risk of blindness. Otherwise there > is no side effects but a 'stiff neck' and impotence. The latter could be > caused by abstinence. > I have heard of young people taking antabus on purpose before drinking > just to get a kick of it - but I don't understand the attraction of it. > > Björn > > kayleighs@... wrote: > > > > > For everyone I've ever spoken with who had a reaction, straight to the > ER. I believe that antihistamines have an antidotal effect, but I > wouldn't want anyone to rely on that info. > > I'm told it's a terrifying experience, and can be life threatening but > most people just get very sick and can be released after brief ER > treatment. > > wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6 462 > > In a message dated 7/27/99 7:09:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > kayleighs@... writes: > > > > << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> > > > > > > I've never used antabuse, but I have heard this too. What happens if > one has > > even half a drink with it? Hospitalization? > > > > Best, > > Luanne > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > [click here] > > Click Here! > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > www. - Simplifying group communications > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 1999 Report Share Posted July 29, 1999 This is true especially if they happen to be fire ants. >>>>>>>>> << I think Antabuse is extremely dangerous >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 1999 Report Share Posted July 30, 1999 Flagyll is most commonly used to treat trichomniasis, as are other cycline based drugs, they fall out of the realm of regular first generation antibiotics.Sun and alcohol are serious no nos Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 1999 Report Share Posted July 30, 1999 On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:18:34 -0400 Rio wrote: > Hi Bjorn, > > I'm taking a wild guess at the Ohio connection because of the proliferation > of tire making companies headquartered there. This Hald person you mention > may have taken the theory to Denmark and therefore, the medical discovery > coming from Denmark. More likely, the discovery was made at a tire plant in Denmark, and Ohio never came into it. Not everything gets discovered in America, you know! Nothing good can come out of a State that gave us Akron AA! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 1999 Report Share Posted July 30, 1999 On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:27:08 -0700 kayleighs@... wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, Antabuse was developed as a result of a search for > a cure for syphilis. It didn't cure syphilis, but it did induce a > severe reaction in people who drank. Antabuse is closely related to > Flagyll, which is prescribed for some kind of STD, I forget what, and > people who are on Flagyll are warned not to drink. Flagyll is given to S & M types who want to stop. They get nauseous if they flagellate each other. It was dicontinued when it was found out they were enjoying the experience. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 1999 Report Share Posted July 31, 1999 Pete, You made some valid points. And gave me a good chuckle. Poor Ohio. For some reason, Ohio just bugs the heck out of us Western Pennsylvanians. Maybe it's because of Akron! We sell a T-shirt here in Pittsburgh that says 'What's the best thing about Cleveland?' Then shows a green highway sign 'Pittsburgh, 156 miles'. My apologies ahead of time to any Ohioans on the list. I haven't a clue really why Pittsburghers get upset about Ohio. Maybe it's a football thing. Jan Re: Antabuse > >On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:18:34 -0400 Rio > wrote: > >> Hi Bjorn, >> >> I'm taking a wild guess at the Ohio connection because of the proliferation >> of tire making companies headquartered there. This Hald person you mention >> may have taken the theory to Denmark and therefore, the medical discovery >> coming from Denmark. > >More likely, the discovery was made at a tire plant in >Denmark, and Ohio never came into it. Not everything gets >discovered in America, you know! > >Nothing good can come out of a State that gave us Akron AA! > >Pete > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 1999 Report Share Posted July 31, 1999 Pete, You made some valid points. And gave me a good chuckle. Poor Ohio. For some reason, Ohio just bugs the heck out of us Western Pennsylvanians. Maybe it's because of Akron! We sell a T-shirt here in Pittsburgh that says 'What's the best thing about Cleveland?' Then shows a green highway sign 'Pittsburgh, 156 miles'. My apologies ahead of time to any Ohioans on the list. I haven't a clue really why Pittsburghers get upset about Ohio. Maybe it's a football thing. Jan Re: Antabuse > >On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:18:34 -0400 Rio > wrote: > >> Hi Bjorn, >> >> I'm taking a wild guess at the Ohio connection because of the proliferation >> of tire making companies headquartered there. This Hald person you mention >> may have taken the theory to Denmark and therefore, the medical discovery >> coming from Denmark. > >More likely, the discovery was made at a tire plant in >Denmark, and Ohio never came into it. Not everything gets >discovered in America, you know! > >Nothing good can come out of a State that gave us Akron AA! > >Pete > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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