Guest guest Posted July 2, 1999 Report Share Posted July 2, 1999 , I am printing your letter to keep in front of me every day. I am so sorry that the exodus of a nice lady may have been the preface for your well written words, but such is the nature of AA and it's message. Thank you all, for your courageous hearts. I have always felt alone and " wrong " ...something terribly wrong with me that I could not sell my soul for babble and security. But what kind of security is it to love an AA perfectionist that only will accept you, even acknowledge your existence, when you spout the Big Book Babble. One time, early one, I with great trepidation on the way to, of course, a meeting, told him that I worried so that when called on I could not recite page and verse on demand..... my life did not revolve around the book like that! But he said, " speak what is in your heart, that is what the meetings are about...... " So I did. The GREAT SILENCE that met me. I spoke of abuse, doctors, and doubts in personal relationships in AA....... I was met with a maze of angry closed faces.......... and trembled and inched my way back to my seat. Later, Mr. AA said I was " too new " to know enough to talk about my life. Was I new to my life? Unfortunately for me, no. Anyway, that's it for me today. I am licking my wounds still, trying to get through the last six months of this 2 1/2 year divorce from hell. I think I'm free from the rhetoric, but unfortunately for me, I dearly loved the " other man " that sometimes, (RARELY) let himself be known to me. A wonderful dear person who I never was able to say goodbye to. I never even knew a goodbye was in the offing. But his " committee " decided I was not the " Program Person " he needed and wanted in his life. Oh, enough of this. But I was so touched by your insight and so disturbed by 's choices, I see myself and think of all the years and all the tears...... But I am so grateful for all of you! Thanks for letting me ramble. Kathy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Hi Kathy; Having someone you love usurped by any cult is a bummer, but AA especially as it was supposed to help and is accepted as a helping organization all over the world. Help ends up being total domination. Sort of like " Regina The Dominatrix " from some porn ad who can get the person to inflict pain on themselves and everyone around them. The pain for the cult member goes on so steadily that they no longer are even aware that they are in fear and in pain. They have made the connection " Pain=Goodness " and will continue giving and receiving pain until and overwhelming pain stops them. The overwhelming pain, may never come. Death of a spouse isn't pain enough as I've heard of men leaving their wife's funeral to go to a meeting, and leaving the children to face the other mourners. The biggie is that folks character is judged by how long they have abstained from alcohol, and no other criteria. He can be a burglar, rapist or pedophile and be practising those things, but if he abstains from alcohol his character is OK in AA. It makes a good hiding place for sick people to tell each other they are fine and the rest of the world wrong. The problem being that they can't completely hide from their own feelings about themselves and shout down their conscience with slogans. Been there done that, gave the tee shirt away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 Wonderful post ! > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Goodbye- >Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:22:31 -0700 > >Hi Everybody, > I was saddened to read 's letter, and couldn't help but feel >she that had really missed the point. I believe over the last few days >there was an incredible outpouring of love toward her, but she just >chose to see the thorns. Maybe it is to cutting edge for her over here. >My ego gets bruised here now and then, but I manage to come to my senses >and write it off as oversensitvity. > >I grew up between two alcoholics, and I loved them both very much. My >Mother had a fleeting relationship with the truth. She was a compulsive >liar. I was groomed to became a " mark " for every con artist that came >down the pike. The end of my drinking career was like a prolonged >crucifixion of con artistry. Damn, if I just could been the liar and not >the lied to, I could have made it! Just kidding. Needless to say, when I >got to AA I was an easy mark. Financially battered, emotionally bruised, >and totally ashamed of myself. How seductive their offer was when they >told me I couldn't help myself, I was an alcoholic. So I turned over my >shame, my will, my life , and my intellectual integrity over to the >worst con artist of the twentieth century, Bill . > >To make matters worse they held the belief that all alcoholics are >liars, cheats, and thieves. (one of the many gross over generalizations >I would encounter during my tenure in AA) They expected me to confess >this as well as some sort of initiation into humility. Although I had >really screwed my life up and done some rotten things, being a liar, a >cheat, and a thief wasn't one of them. I was a terminal victim, full of >self pity and I just couldn't shake it. I now know that I couldn't shake >it because by being in AA I was becoming a victim all over again. The >cure was now the embodiment of my greatest ill. After waking up to the >fact that half of the things that my mother told were lies or hyperbole, >I came to hate lying with a vengeance. How ironic that I should end up >in the great Twelve Step Lie. > >It wasn't until I left AA that I truly stopped being a victim. It's a >hard identity to shake, and my heart goes out to all the abused >addicts/alcoholics who have found the embodiment of their abusers in the >Twelve Step System. It's a terrible phenomenon, how the abused seek out >more of the same. It becomes a compulsion and takes on a life of its >own, like the russian roulette playing, Walken, in " The Deer >Hunter " . > >It was not until I left AA that I truly became happy, joyous, and free. >I sat on the fence for five years, stark raving sober. I'm not really as >angry as my words would have you believe. I just love speaking out >against injustice especially one that is such a pious, wolf in sheep's >clothing lie. Such is AA. > > is between a rock and a hard place. I was where she is for over >five years, stuck between the harsh truths of reality and the seductive >charms and promises of the Program. We can choose. Reality/Fantasy >Responsibility/Powerlessness Independence/Learned Helplessness >Truth/Lies. I don't see that middle ground is a helpful concept in this >scenario. As they say in AA, half measures availed us nothing. Being >half in/out in AA is one of the most spirit crushing strolls through >purgatory available to the human race. They sucker you in with the >oldest con in the book. It's free!!!!!! Step right up, get your >unconditional love. Yeah right. Better read the fine print. > >If I were religiously inclined, I would go so far as to say that AA's >modus operandi is identical to that of Satan. Both want you to sell them >your soul, with wondrous promises in the offering. There I have >committed the ultimate blasphemy. > >Want the truth? >AA is evil. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 Wonderful post ! > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Goodbye- >Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:22:31 -0700 > >Hi Everybody, > I was saddened to read 's letter, and couldn't help but feel >she that had really missed the point. I believe over the last few days >there was an incredible outpouring of love toward her, but she just >chose to see the thorns. Maybe it is to cutting edge for her over here. >My ego gets bruised here now and then, but I manage to come to my senses >and write it off as oversensitvity. > >I grew up between two alcoholics, and I loved them both very much. My >Mother had a fleeting relationship with the truth. She was a compulsive >liar. I was groomed to became a " mark " for every con artist that came >down the pike. The end of my drinking career was like a prolonged >crucifixion of con artistry. Damn, if I just could been the liar and not >the lied to, I could have made it! Just kidding. Needless to say, when I >got to AA I was an easy mark. Financially battered, emotionally bruised, >and totally ashamed of myself. How seductive their offer was when they >told me I couldn't help myself, I was an alcoholic. So I turned over my >shame, my will, my life , and my intellectual integrity over to the >worst con artist of the twentieth century, Bill . > >To make matters worse they held the belief that all alcoholics are >liars, cheats, and thieves. (one of the many gross over generalizations >I would encounter during my tenure in AA) They expected me to confess >this as well as some sort of initiation into humility. Although I had >really screwed my life up and done some rotten things, being a liar, a >cheat, and a thief wasn't one of them. I was a terminal victim, full of >self pity and I just couldn't shake it. I now know that I couldn't shake >it because by being in AA I was becoming a victim all over again. The >cure was now the embodiment of my greatest ill. After waking up to the >fact that half of the things that my mother told were lies or hyperbole, >I came to hate lying with a vengeance. How ironic that I should end up >in the great Twelve Step Lie. > >It wasn't until I left AA that I truly stopped being a victim. It's a >hard identity to shake, and my heart goes out to all the abused >addicts/alcoholics who have found the embodiment of their abusers in the >Twelve Step System. It's a terrible phenomenon, how the abused seek out >more of the same. It becomes a compulsion and takes on a life of its >own, like the russian roulette playing, Walken, in " The Deer >Hunter " . > >It was not until I left AA that I truly became happy, joyous, and free. >I sat on the fence for five years, stark raving sober. I'm not really as >angry as my words would have you believe. I just love speaking out >against injustice especially one that is such a pious, wolf in sheep's >clothing lie. Such is AA. > > is between a rock and a hard place. I was where she is for over >five years, stuck between the harsh truths of reality and the seductive >charms and promises of the Program. We can choose. Reality/Fantasy >Responsibility/Powerlessness Independence/Learned Helplessness >Truth/Lies. I don't see that middle ground is a helpful concept in this >scenario. As they say in AA, half measures availed us nothing. Being >half in/out in AA is one of the most spirit crushing strolls through >purgatory available to the human race. They sucker you in with the >oldest con in the book. It's free!!!!!! Step right up, get your >unconditional love. Yeah right. Better read the fine print. > >If I were religiously inclined, I would go so far as to say that AA's >modus operandi is identical to that of Satan. Both want you to sell them >your soul, with wondrous promises in the offering. There I have >committed the ultimate blasphemy. > >Want the truth? >AA is evil. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 Wonderful post ! > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Goodbye- >Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:22:31 -0700 > >Hi Everybody, > I was saddened to read 's letter, and couldn't help but feel >she that had really missed the point. I believe over the last few days >there was an incredible outpouring of love toward her, but she just >chose to see the thorns. Maybe it is to cutting edge for her over here. >My ego gets bruised here now and then, but I manage to come to my senses >and write it off as oversensitvity. > >I grew up between two alcoholics, and I loved them both very much. My >Mother had a fleeting relationship with the truth. She was a compulsive >liar. I was groomed to became a " mark " for every con artist that came >down the pike. The end of my drinking career was like a prolonged >crucifixion of con artistry. Damn, if I just could been the liar and not >the lied to, I could have made it! Just kidding. Needless to say, when I >got to AA I was an easy mark. Financially battered, emotionally bruised, >and totally ashamed of myself. How seductive their offer was when they >told me I couldn't help myself, I was an alcoholic. So I turned over my >shame, my will, my life , and my intellectual integrity over to the >worst con artist of the twentieth century, Bill . > >To make matters worse they held the belief that all alcoholics are >liars, cheats, and thieves. (one of the many gross over generalizations >I would encounter during my tenure in AA) They expected me to confess >this as well as some sort of initiation into humility. Although I had >really screwed my life up and done some rotten things, being a liar, a >cheat, and a thief wasn't one of them. I was a terminal victim, full of >self pity and I just couldn't shake it. I now know that I couldn't shake >it because by being in AA I was becoming a victim all over again. The >cure was now the embodiment of my greatest ill. After waking up to the >fact that half of the things that my mother told were lies or hyperbole, >I came to hate lying with a vengeance. How ironic that I should end up >in the great Twelve Step Lie. > >It wasn't until I left AA that I truly stopped being a victim. It's a >hard identity to shake, and my heart goes out to all the abused >addicts/alcoholics who have found the embodiment of their abusers in the >Twelve Step System. It's a terrible phenomenon, how the abused seek out >more of the same. It becomes a compulsion and takes on a life of its >own, like the russian roulette playing, Walken, in " The Deer >Hunter " . > >It was not until I left AA that I truly became happy, joyous, and free. >I sat on the fence for five years, stark raving sober. I'm not really as >angry as my words would have you believe. I just love speaking out >against injustice especially one that is such a pious, wolf in sheep's >clothing lie. Such is AA. > > is between a rock and a hard place. I was where she is for over >five years, stuck between the harsh truths of reality and the seductive >charms and promises of the Program. We can choose. Reality/Fantasy >Responsibility/Powerlessness Independence/Learned Helplessness >Truth/Lies. I don't see that middle ground is a helpful concept in this >scenario. As they say in AA, half measures availed us nothing. Being >half in/out in AA is one of the most spirit crushing strolls through >purgatory available to the human race. They sucker you in with the >oldest con in the book. It's free!!!!!! Step right up, get your >unconditional love. Yeah right. Better read the fine print. > >If I were religiously inclined, I would go so far as to say that AA's >modus operandi is identical to that of Satan. Both want you to sell them >your soul, with wondrous promises in the offering. There I have >committed the ultimate blasphemy. > >Want the truth? >AA is evil. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 I agree with , , that was a great post! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 I agree with , , that was a great post! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 1999 Report Share Posted July 6, 1999 I agree with , , that was a great post! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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