Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Welcome, Rebekah! Great post! I feel so much like you. I have grown by leaps and bounds since leaving AA @3 years ago. I was a " guru " on the steps, had memorized " How It Works " well enough to be asked to recite it opening meetings. What a frickin' honor, huh?? The guilt and shame has been there all my life too, and AA only exacerbated my feelings woth their methods. I had an argument with my mom on the phone a couple of weeks ago. She really wants me to believe in god since my fiance's son was killed @ 3 months ago. There's a reason, she says. I say, " What is the reason? " I ask. " It's not for you to know, " she says. " Why shouldn't I know why a sweet, loving, gentle 21-year-old boy is taken from the family that loves him so much and a son that really needs his father growing up? " Well, you get the idea. I love my mother, but I won't accept pat words and phrases. Sounds too much like AA brainwashing...! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5391 > > It has taken me a while to finally break free of AA and NA....and for that > matter, anything 12 step related. > As someone mentioned here, I find myself recoiling from it like a hot flame. > > > Looking back at the first 5 years I spent in those rooms, totally immersed > in it...I have to laugh that it is obvious why it seemed to fit like a > familiar glove. I grew up on guilt and shame...my mother was a religious > fanatic, and a prescription junkie at that. I don't know how many times I > heard the phrase " You would be no where without me! " and all sorts of > admonishments that strong feelings could land you in the looney bin. Anger > was forbidden, and being really happy wasn't exactly encouraged either. > Suffering was a noble endeaver. > > The rooms of AA seemed just like home. Somewhere along the line (being drug > and alcohol free helped) I began to figure out it was me who was making the > decision to not use and choosing to improve my life...not the masochistic > steps and certainly not the whacked-out people who frequented those rooms. I > did take that phrase " Take what you want and leave the rest " to > heart....although it is repeated endlessly but seldom followed. Little by > little I was scrapping almost everything as it was beginning to feel as > harmful as drinking or using drugs for me. The few things I found helpful, I > realized could be found outside of the rooms and free of the endless > program babble and idiotic concepts applied to every situation regardless of > whether they were appropriate for the given situation. > > It has been helpful to find people to have in my life who weren't totally > obsessed with drinking and getting high. I meet them all of the time...at > school and as a result of having a variety of interests. None of them have > been to AA. It's been helpful to have people I can be totally honest with. > Again, all of the people I have in my life really listen to me, and I feel I > can trust them. Not one of them barrages me with stupid program jargon.They > actually encourage me to think and act for myself. What a great concept! > > Anger has become a trusted friend.(as well as all of the other " normal " > feelings every person has) It got me out of those blasted rooms filled with > some of the sickest people > I have ever met. I have so many stories I can't even begin to recall them > all now. > > I was at a conference for parents who had experienced the death of a > child...and the main speaker talked about the phrase " God never gives you > more than you can handle " as being one of the stupidest things a grieving > parent could ever hear. > > I haven't been to a meeting in over 6 years. My life feels like it began > the day I left AA. I haven't been back, and my life has never been better. I > found out the world wasn't flat, and no, I haven't started drinking or using > drugs again, despite any difficult times I have had that are just a part of > living life. There are a lot of places I can go in the world to learn > healthy coping skills, and AA did me more harm than good. I am finding that > I am a pretty good judge of what works for me. I am very wary of anyone who > tries to tell me that they know more than I do about what is good for me. > BTW ...I HATE the Oprah Show and all of those " experts " she has on who have > written a book to be applied to every area in your life. Any damn fool can > write a book. > > I have really enjoyed reading postings on this list. Having a place to > talk about the bad experiences people have had in AA and other 12 step > groups is part of the process of finally being allowed to be honest and > un-do some of the intense programming that goes on there. Rebekah > (Church of the Divine Rebekah) I'm not looking for converts...form your own > beliefs! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Thanks, . I saw my Dr. yesterday and am going in for grief counseling. I cannot seem to get out of the depressed phase. It's been to long and it's really wearing on me. I can't make sense of Nick's death except that Charlie and I weren't meant to be married and I certainly was never meant to be happy. So the most important day of my life is taken away in the most painful way possible, Charlie's favorite child is ripped away, and I feel responsible because I'm a jinx!!! Isn't that a crock of you-know-what? That's the PTSD kicking my butt every time I turn around. I don't deserve. AGH!! I want to get rid of THAT one SO bad!!! My mom and I get along really well, so we forgive and forget really easily. That was over before we got off the phone. We are so close, she thinks of me as an only child and I have two brothers! I won't let this get the best of me. I just keep telling myself I am stronger than the average person; it's amazing to still be alive after all this!! -paraphrasing Rose's words... Thanks! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5416 > Hi ; > > Agreed, pat phrases to cover complex situations, don't work. All > the damn time in AA I'd hear them trying to apply the serenity > prayer to the presidential election or some such. A woman asking > her higher power which table cloth to use when the boss was > coming to dinner. Ridiculous stuff, throw a sheet over the bloody > table. Welll, maybe not, but you get the idea. > > There is one verse I consider acceptable in times like the one you > were speaking of. It's in The Ecclesiastes and goes, I returned > and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift nor the > battle to the strong, nor yet bread to the wise, nor riches to men of > understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill, but time and chance > happeneth to them all. " > > Guess what? It shows that God does not control everything, time > and chance. Dirty rotten stinking bad luck. To me that's > acceptable, unsolved unknowable mysteries aren't for me. Bad > luck?, that I understand. I may not like it, but I understand it and it > doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. > > On the lighter side, I can even have a little fun with that verse, no > sacrilege intended, but how about; " The race is not to the swift, > nor the battle to the strong " , but that's the way to bet! > > What the hey, I'm incurable, besides I've been up all night and need > a nap. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Thanks, . I saw my Dr. yesterday and am going in for grief counseling. I cannot seem to get out of the depressed phase. It's been to long and it's really wearing on me. I can't make sense of Nick's death except that Charlie and I weren't meant to be married and I certainly was never meant to be happy. So the most important day of my life is taken away in the most painful way possible, Charlie's favorite child is ripped away, and I feel responsible because I'm a jinx!!! Isn't that a crock of you-know-what? That's the PTSD kicking my butt every time I turn around. I don't deserve. AGH!! I want to get rid of THAT one SO bad!!! My mom and I get along really well, so we forgive and forget really easily. That was over before we got off the phone. We are so close, she thinks of me as an only child and I have two brothers! I won't let this get the best of me. I just keep telling myself I am stronger than the average person; it's amazing to still be alive after all this!! -paraphrasing Rose's words... Thanks! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5416 > Hi ; > > Agreed, pat phrases to cover complex situations, don't work. All > the damn time in AA I'd hear them trying to apply the serenity > prayer to the presidential election or some such. A woman asking > her higher power which table cloth to use when the boss was > coming to dinner. Ridiculous stuff, throw a sheet over the bloody > table. Welll, maybe not, but you get the idea. > > There is one verse I consider acceptable in times like the one you > were speaking of. It's in The Ecclesiastes and goes, I returned > and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift nor the > battle to the strong, nor yet bread to the wise, nor riches to men of > understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill, but time and chance > happeneth to them all. " > > Guess what? It shows that God does not control everything, time > and chance. Dirty rotten stinking bad luck. To me that's > acceptable, unsolved unknowable mysteries aren't for me. Bad > luck?, that I understand. I may not like it, but I understand it and it > doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. > > On the lighter side, I can even have a little fun with that verse, no > sacrilege intended, but how about; " The race is not to the swift, > nor the battle to the strong " , but that's the way to bet! > > What the hey, I'm incurable, besides I've been up all night and need > a nap. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Hi . Yeah...I was the " good little girl " of the 12 step groups. I went to a gazillion meetings. 3X a day for the first 5 years. I knew everybody in NA in my town....was on all of the committees. I lived in clean and sober housing, and of course the social service agency that ran the place started using me and my friend as poster girls for speaking engagements to raise money. We even had a press conference with Tipper Gore when she came to town. I slowly began to get soured on the whole thing. It was all about how " they " had saved my life. They even coached me on the right things to say. I was forbidden to talk about trying to get a Master's degree...they wanted me to say I was going to get a job at salvation army or something so the investers would feel good about helping the pathetic drug addict become " gainfully employed " . My friend died as a result of an relapse and overdose. She was such a service work junkie. Not one minute was spared to work on herself or her own issues. It was that whole " do for others " thing. I remember starting to find some confidence in myself and pursuing outside interests....like going back to school and getting an advanced degree. I also started therapy with a woman who encouraged me to start paying attention to my own needs and goals. School started becoming a focus in my life. I went back to a meeting after a while of being really successful in school. I remember the reaction of a lot of people who I thought were my friends. The whole meeting seemed to focus on my being a traiter to the program. Even the people I knew who couldn't stay clean for any length of time had more status and group approval than I did. As long as they came to meetings every day and were dependent on the program and thier sponsors to make the simplest decisions. It just seemed really sick. Maybe it was my unwillingness to attribute every success in my life to " the program " . I didn't hear from one of these people when my son died. I had people offer thier phone numbers...but not one person took the time to call me. The people who stood by my side were people who had gotten out of the programs. They were also the people who wern't terrified of my real and expressed feelings. All of the program people I had any contact with with got this terrified look on thier faces like I had the plague or leprosy and make some lame excuse they had to run to a meeting... Or make the statement " I don't do feelings " like it was some badge of honor. I was just sick of people offering me those silly platitudes when I was going through the real grief of losing a child. I even had people calling me up to do service work shortly after the funeral. I still remember them yelling at me because they were angry that I couldn't " get out of myself " to go run around helping others when I was struggling to stay in school and cope with the death of my son. I'm so glad to be out of there! Thanks for making me feel welcome here. Welcome, Rebekah! Great post! I feel so much like you. I have grown by leaps and bounds since leaving AA @3 years ago. I was a " guru " on the steps, had memorized " How It Works " well enough to be asked to recite it opening meetings. What a frickin' honor, huh?? The guilt and shame has been there all my life too, and AA only exacerbated my feelings woth their methods. I had an argument with my mom on the phone a couple of weeks ago. She really wants me to believe in god since my fiance's son was killed @ 3 months ago. There's a reason, she says. I say, " What is the reason? " I ask. " It's not for you to know, " she says. " Why shouldn't I know why a sweet, loving, gentle 21-year-old boy is taken from the family that loves him so much and a son that really needs his father growing up? " Well, you get the idea. I love my mother, but I won't accept pat words and phrases. Sounds too much like AA brainwashing...! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5391 > > It has taken me a while to finally break free of AA and NA....and for that > matter, anything 12 step related. > As someone mentioned here, I find myself recoiling from it like a hot flame. > > > Looking back at the first 5 years I spent in those rooms, totally immersed > in it...I have to laugh that it is obvious why it seemed to fit like a > familiar glove. I grew up on guilt and shame...my mother was a religious > fanatic, and a prescription junkie at that. I don't know how many times I > heard the phrase " You would be no where without me! " and all sorts of > admonishments that strong feelings could land you in the looney bin. Anger > was forbidden, and being really happy wasn't exactly encouraged either. > Suffering was a noble endeaver. > > The rooms of AA seemed just like home. Somewhere along the line (being drug > and alcohol free helped) I began to figure out it was me who was making the > decision to not use and choosing to improve my life...not the masochistic > steps and certainly not the whacked-out people who frequented those rooms. I > did take that phrase " Take what you want and leave the rest " to > heart....although it is repeated endlessly but seldom followed. Little by > little I was scrapping almost everything as it was beginning to feel as > harmful as drinking or using drugs for me. The few things I found helpful, I > realized could be found outside of the rooms and free of the endless > program babble and idiotic concepts applied to every situation regardless of > whether they were appropriate for the given situation. > > It has been helpful to find people to have in my life who weren't totally > obsessed with drinking and getting high. I meet them all of the time...at > school and as a result of having a variety of interests. None of them have > been to AA. It's been helpful to have people I can be totally honest with. > Again, all of the people I have in my life really listen to me, and I feel I > can trust them. Not one of them barrages me with stupid program jargon.They > actually encourage me to think and act for myself. What a great concept! > > Anger has become a trusted friend.(as well as all of the other " normal " > feelings every person has) It got me out of those blasted rooms filled with > some of the sickest people > I have ever met. I have so many stories I can't even begin to recall them > all now. > > I was at a conference for parents who had experienced the death of a > child...and the main speaker talked about the phrase " God never gives you > more than you can handle " as being one of the stupidest things a grieving > parent could ever hear. > > I haven't been to a meeting in over 6 years. My life feels like it began > the day I left AA. I haven't been back, and my life has never been better. I > found out the world wasn't flat, and no, I haven't started drinking or using > drugs again, despite any difficult times I have had that are just a part of > living life. There are a lot of places I can go in the world to learn > healthy coping skills, and AA did me more harm than good. I am finding that > I am a pretty good judge of what works for me. I am very wary of anyone who > tries to tell me that they know more than I do about what is good for me. > BTW ...I HATE the Oprah Show and all of those " experts " she has on who have > written a book to be applied to every area in your life. Any damn fool can > write a book. > > I have really enjoyed reading postings on this list. Having a place to > talk about the bad experiences people have had in AA and other 12 step > groups is part of the process of finally being allowed to be honest and > un-do some of the intense programming that goes on there. Rebekah > (Church of the Divine Rebekah) I'm not looking for converts...form your own > beliefs! > > Click Here! <http://clickhere./click/424> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free </group/12-step-free> www. <> - Simplifying group communications eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Hi ; Agreed, pat phrases to cover complex situations, don't work. All the damn time in AA I'd hear them trying to apply the serenity prayer to the presidential election or some such. A woman asking her higher power which table cloth to use when the boss was coming to dinner. Ridiculous stuff, throw a sheet over the bloody table. Welll, maybe not, but you get the idea. There is one verse I consider acceptable in times like the one you were speaking of. It's in The Ecclesiastes and goes, I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong, nor yet bread to the wise, nor riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill, but time and chance happeneth to them all. " Guess what? It shows that God does not control everything, time and chance. Dirty rotten stinking bad luck. To me that's acceptable, unsolved unknowable mysteries aren't for me. Bad luck?, that I understand. I may not like it, but I understand it and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. On the lighter side, I can even have a little fun with that verse, no sacrilege intended, but how about; " The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong " , but that's the way to bet! What the hey, I'm incurable, besides I've been up all night and need a nap. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Hi Rebekah! I was into the service thing too. Made coffee, chaired, was on steering committees, even opened a new club. I was on Advisory council, served on Conference Committees; you name it. It took me 15 years to realize a lot of things. I, like you, knew everybody-went to dances all over the state and thought I had a ton of friends. When I separated from my then husband and moved away, I found out I had one true friend. I was devastated. Nobody called. Nobody cared. Most of AA is a social thing these days. People just don't care. I am so sorry to hear about your son. If you ever want to talk about it, please feel free to do so. Let me know your thoughts and feelings. I am having a lot of trouble with the loss of my (almost) stepson-for so many reasons, and I would like to know how you deal with it-the good and the bad. I was surprised at a few peoples' responses to me as well. They tell ME to call them. It just makes me more aware that I need to reach out to my true friends and show I care. My stepson's mother can't stand me for a lot of reasons and very few of them valid. One being is that she turned against her son a few years ago for something stupid and had not made peace with him when he died. Nick had been visiting His dad and me on a weekly basis for a couple of years. I kind of stepped into being mom-and it felt great. We were the first ones listed in his phone book (not alphabetical-but it sure looked like it was in order of the way he thought of people.) In AA, people don't want to face up to emotional responses; they want to bury them. I loved this boy freely because he was so much like his father, and I love his father freely. That's why it hurts so much. I have said many times I have no regrets for giving my all in the relationship-as a mother to a son (and I have four children of my own). I agree with your views of AA'ers. Love, wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5418 > Hi . Yeah...I was the " good little girl " of the 12 step groups. I went > to a gazillion meetings. 3X a day for the first 5 years. I knew everybody in > NA in my town....was on all of the committees. I lived in clean and sober > housing, and of course the social service agency that ran the place started > using me and my friend as poster girls for speaking engagements to raise > money. We even had a press conference with Tipper Gore when she came to > town. I slowly began to get soured on the whole thing. It was all about how > " they " had saved my life. They even coached me on the right things to say. I > was forbidden to talk about trying to get a Master's degree...they wanted me > to say I was going to get a job at salvation army or something so the > investers would feel good about helping the pathetic drug addict become > " gainfully employed " . > > My friend died as a result of an relapse and overdose. She was such a > service work junkie. Not one minute was spared to work on herself or her own > issues. It was that whole " do for others " thing. I remember starting to find > some confidence in myself and pursuing outside interests....like going back > to school and getting an advanced degree. I also started therapy with a > woman who encouraged me to start paying attention to my own needs and goals. > > School started becoming a focus in my life. > I went back to a meeting after a while of being really successful in school. > I remember the reaction of a lot of people who I thought were my friends. > The whole meeting seemed to focus on my being a traiter to the program. Even > the people I knew who couldn't stay clean for any length of time had more > status and group approval than I did. As long as they came to meetings every > day and were dependent on the program and thier sponsors to make the > simplest decisions. It just seemed really sick. Maybe it was my > unwillingness to attribute every success in my life to " the program " . I > didn't hear from one of these people when my son died. I had people offer > thier phone numbers...but not one person took the time to call me. The > people who stood by my side were people who had gotten out of the programs. > They were also the people who wern't terrified of my real and expressed > feelings. All of the program people I had any contact with with got this > terrified look on thier faces like I had the plague or leprosy and make some > lame excuse they had to run to a meeting... Or make the statement " I don't > do feelings " like it was some badge of honor. > > I was just sick of people offering me those silly platitudes when I was > going through the real grief of losing a child. I even had people calling me > up to do service work shortly after the funeral. I still remember them > yelling at me because they were angry that I couldn't " get out of myself " to > go run around helping others when I was struggling to stay in school and > cope with the death of my son. > > I'm so glad to be out of there! Thanks for making me feel welcome here. > > > Welcome, Rebekah! > > Great post! I feel so much like you. > > I have grown by leaps and bounds since leaving AA @3 years ago. I was > a " guru " on the steps, had memorized " How It Works " well enough to be > asked to recite it opening meetings. What a frickin' honor, huh?? > > The guilt and shame has been there all my life too, and AA only > exacerbated my feelings woth their methods. > > I had an argument with my mom on the phone a couple of weeks ago. She > really wants me to believe in god since my fiance's son was killed @ 3 > months ago. There's a reason, she says. I say, " What is the reason? " > I ask. " It's not for you to know, " she says. " Why shouldn't I know > why a sweet, loving, gentle 21-year-old boy is taken from the family > that loves him so much and a son that really needs his father growing > up? " Well, you get the idea. I love my mother, but I won't accept pat > words and phrases. Sounds too much like AA brainwashing...! > > > > wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5391 > > > > It has taken me a while to finally break free of AA and NA....and > for that > > matter, anything 12 step related. > > As someone mentioned here, I find myself recoiling from it like a hot > flame. > > > > > > Looking back at the first 5 years I spent in those rooms, totally > immersed > > in it...I have to laugh that it is obvious why it seemed to fit like a > > familiar glove. I grew up on guilt and shame...my mother was a > religious > > fanatic, and a prescription junkie at that. I don't know how many > times I > > heard the phrase " You would be no where without me! " and all sorts of > > admonishments that strong feelings could land you in the looney bin. > Anger > > was forbidden, and being really happy wasn't exactly encouraged > either. > > Suffering was a noble endeaver. > > > > The rooms of AA seemed just like home. Somewhere along the line > (being drug > > and alcohol free helped) I began to figure out it was me who was > making the > > decision to not use and choosing to improve my life...not the > masochistic > > steps and certainly not the whacked-out people who frequented those > rooms. I > > did take that phrase " Take what you want and leave the rest " to > > heart....although it is repeated endlessly but seldom followed. > Little by > > little I was scrapping almost everything as it was beginning to feel > as > > harmful as drinking or using drugs for me. The few things I found > helpful, I > > realized could be found outside of the rooms and free of the endless > > program babble and idiotic concepts applied to every situation > regardless of > > whether they were appropriate for the given situation. > > > > It has been helpful to find people to have in my life who weren't > totally > > obsessed with drinking and getting high. I meet them all of the > time...at > > school and as a result of having a variety of interests. None of them > have > > been to AA. It's been helpful to have people I can be totally honest > with. > > Again, all of the people I have in my life really listen to me, and I > feel I > > can trust them. Not one of them barrages me with stupid program > jargon.They > > actually encourage me to think and act for myself. What a great > concept! > > > > Anger has become a trusted friend.(as well as all of the other > " normal " > > feelings every person has) It got me out of those blasted rooms > filled with > > some of the sickest people > > I have ever met. I have so many stories I can't even begin to recall > them > > all now. > > > > I was at a conference for parents who had experienced the death of a > > child...and the main speaker talked about the phrase " God never gives > you > > more than you can handle " as being one of the stupidest things a > grieving > > parent could ever hear. > > > > I haven't been to a meeting in over 6 years. My life feels like it > began > > the day I left AA. I haven't been back, and my life has never been > better. I > > found out the world wasn't flat, and no, I haven't started drinking > or using > > drugs again, despite any difficult times I have had that are just a > part of > > living life. There are a lot of places I can go in the world to learn > > healthy coping skills, and AA did me more harm than good. I am > finding that > > I am a pretty good judge of what works for me. I am very wary of > anyone who > > tries to tell me that they know more than I do about what is good for > me. > > BTW ...I HATE the Oprah Show and all of those " experts " she has on > who have > > written a book to be applied to every area in your life. Any damn > fool can > > write a book. > > > > I have really enjoyed reading postings on this list. Having a place > to > > talk about the bad experiences people have had in AA and other 12 step > > groups is part of the process of finally being allowed to be honest > and > > un-do some of the intense programming that goes on there. Rebekah > > (Church of the Divine Rebekah) I'm not looking for converts...form > your own > > beliefs! > > > > > > > > > > Click Here! <http://clickhere./click/424> > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > </group/12-step-free> > www. <> - Simplifying group communications > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Hi , No, it wasn't Judge Gates but a guy named Cliff R. D Hall wrote: > > Hi ; > > If the guy you're talking about is Judge Gates(Sounded like him > when you said excellent sense of humor), I have heard one of his > tapes. I think he's the brother of the former LA Police Chief. > > Hope you can get your friend on the internet. It can be done quite > cheaply. This old hog I'm using I gave $100 for. It's an AST > 486dx33 and is fine for lists, usenet etc. No sound, no cd rom, but > it came with a 28.8 modem, so all I had to do was install the > software and hook up the phone line. We have two better ones, > but I just like this one. Has dos 6.22 and win 3.11. I can lock up > our p-166 with win95 in about 30 minutes, but have no problem with > 3.11 beyond getting too many windows open at one time. I need to > stick some more memory in it, only 16meg right now. Not the > fastest, but it gets the job done. Something like this beats the > devil out of not being connected. > > I even have browsers and email on my 286's in the shop. They are > not however practical for anybody learning. Everything is done from > Dos in the 286, because it's only a 16 bit processor and slow at > 10mhz. I just use them because I have them. Matter of fact I still > have my first old 8088 computer, big old 21.4 meg hard drive, Mass > storage they called it back then. Now a single game can take > more space than that! Enuff bout puters. > > I imagine your friend was a bit surprised to learn her story is not > rare among us. I hope she can at least get a peek at us to know > she has a quite a bit of company and not just in California or for > that matter the USA. > > A treatment incident I had completely for gotten about till a couple > of days ago on another list. It happened to a couple of women, not > me, but I was present through the whole nasty thing. > > In May of 1989, I was in Treatment at Mercy Hospital in Des > Moines. The facility was on the third floor but much of what we did > was on two and in the basement 1st sub level. One woman had > claustrophobia and always took the stairs. Another woman from > our group would walk with her. The counsellors started getting on > them, telling them it was mostly BS and they didn't have time to be > waiting on them all the time. > > They withstood it till some suck up patients began getting on them > along with counsellors. They got on the elevator with pressure from > a woman counsellor, in the basement, the counsellor got on also. > > The elevator stuck between two and three and both women > panicked. Three of us got crosswise of the opening like chimney > climbers one atop the other and forced the door about 3 inches > before it stuck on something and we could get it no further. The > counsellor was standing dumbstruck hollering nonsense orders. > One of the women had fainted dead away and the other was > practically bouncing off the walls. The strongest guy got on all > fours and got the woman to stand on his back pressed against the > crack in the door so she could see light and get air. While another > guy was using the elevator phone to get help, we got the other > woman's head as close to the opening as possible. One young girl > started mouth to mouth on her because she was breathing so slow > and in spasms, but she came out of it. The counsellor was totally > useless, not even thinking to use the phone while others were > occupied. It took in the area of 45 minutes for the engineers to get > us out. > > Next morning at big group the counsellors started in on the women > for causing a disturbance with the ultimate self pity and some > patients sucked up and continued it. I lost it and told them exactly > what I thought including slime and scum. Course they turned on > me and one woman came over and said " Thank you , you've > been a friend and I'll miss you. " She kept right on going and I've > never seen her since. The other woman left later that day. I of > course was accused of being the reason they left, bucause of my > inappropriate behavior, which consisted of getting angry. I'm sure it > got to me on some level, but not on the surface. Everyone got > accused of nonsense if you didn't kiss their patoot. The suck ups > could fail drug tests and get defended by the staff because they > were trying hard. The rest of us laughed, they were trying hard > alright, do you know how much effort it takes to get someone to > bring grass or coke to a treatment center? 8-) At some point I just > quit cooperating and did as I pleased. I graduated anyway, still > have the chip somewhere. > > I discovered that to graduate you just had to have a way to pay the > 8 thousand and be there. My bill was around 11 due to bill padding > with useless medical tests. > > Rose was really sold on the place untill folks besides me started > telling her what was going on. In her part, they were doing stuff > under a real shrink with counsellors as aides. They were doing role > playing, and breaking into groups of four and doing real issues and > good stuff, while on our side their was no shrink. > > Like you perhaps, I 'd like to look a couple of them up and just > insult the devil out of them and say " If you'll stand for that you'll > bend over for this. " 8-) Then tell them, " You're right where you're > supposed to be " Like you, I hate that phrase. > > That center closed in 92, for lack of patients. Reputations travel in > the alcoholic's world. I believe it was the first of a bunch to close. > > Perhaps one day they'll all be gone. There's not many left around > here. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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