Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 Oops. Sorry Al. After I said " get real " and all that I did wonder if I was a little too nasty to you. Sorry. And of course you guys are right, being careful and doing things above board is a lot safer for me legally speaking, etc. I guess the important thing is that now I'm CHOOSING to do things the calmer way, whereas before I was stuck in this " I must treat them with respect and take the high road eg always look at MY SIDE OF IT, ETC. It's a lot different when you're doing it out of choice. I'm glad you guys tried to cool me down because I actually did listen and if I wasn't careful this could have been a grand invitation for me to do something really dumb and really screw myself over.Thanks. No hard feelings I hope. kim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke her apology Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 Hi Kim, Glad to hear you sorted things out! I think it's very big of you to apologize, I was questioning my own resolve..for a minute. I used to deal with people that upset me in, let's say , ways that weren't the smartest and in my best interest. I'm new to this new way of thinking and I couldn't help but notice that I used to rant like that.....all the time! I'm a little wiser now and I'm glad to share what I can. I appreciate your apology and respect your honesty.Seem pretty solid to me. Allan ___________=_ADZZXXH eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 Hi Jen, This will probably piss you off but...I apologize for accepting her apology as graciously as I could. I think getting a good rant off is good too! I don't " hangdog " around waiting to accept apologies....but rather to learn something.I don't feel that a person's ranting in this forum would require an apology and I agree that AA can demoralize us to the point of being over-apologetic.I can stand people who think they deserve an apology. I too am tired of feeling the need to explain " my every thought or statement " .BTW....don't include me in the " we " around here that don't apologize ! (Rant) .Furthermore, do you know her well enough to say that she only apologized out of habit ? I hereby revoke your revocation ! P.S. How many " I 's " was that anyway ? Maybe I should look at this " self-centered " accusation......not. BFN, Allan ___________=_ADZZXXH eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 Errr, it is okay to apologize. Sometimes it is right and considerate to do so and respects the other person and acknowledges your awareness that you have not acted your best. But,,, then again I could be wrong. Carol At 10:34 PM 7/19/99 EDT, you wrote: > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than >getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always >apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self >centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from >people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't >stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I >am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we >do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only >apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke >her apology >Jen > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere./click/553 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Life is a candy store. Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at http://www.bcrecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 Errr, it is okay to apologize. Sometimes it is right and considerate to do so and respects the other person and acknowledges your awareness that you have not acted your best. But,,, then again I could be wrong. Carol At 10:34 PM 7/19/99 EDT, you wrote: > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than >getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always >apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self >centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from >people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't >stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I >am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we >do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only >apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke >her apology >Jen > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere./click/553 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Life is a candy store. Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at http://www.bcrecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 I'm not exactly sure why I like this post so much, but I do. I suppose it has something to do with having to constantly censor my sharing for 10 years in AA. I guess my tenure in AA was really one long apology for living and breathing. I suppose the biggest apology we owe is for the harm we did to ourselves in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Jen, I appreciate your courage and conviction in regard to your beliefs as well as going to bat for Kim. Javajenv@... wrote: > > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than > getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always > apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self > centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from > people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't > stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I > am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we > do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only > apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke > her apology > Jen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/553 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 I'm not exactly sure why I like this post so much, but I do. I suppose it has something to do with having to constantly censor my sharing for 10 years in AA. I guess my tenure in AA was really one long apology for living and breathing. I suppose the biggest apology we owe is for the harm we did to ourselves in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Jen, I appreciate your courage and conviction in regard to your beliefs as well as going to bat for Kim. Javajenv@... wrote: > > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than > getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always > apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self > centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from > people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't > stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I > am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we > do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only > apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke > her apology > Jen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/553 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 I know I apologize inappropriately and it's because of my involvement with AA. People look at me funny, and I think it's because they're trying to figure out if I'm being sarcastic. I understand it better now--a severely depressed guy wrote out 12 steps aimed at helping people to achieve his state of depression. Except he mistook the chemical imbalance in his brain for a gift from God. It was just a treatable disease. Judith > I'm not exactly sure why I like this post so much, but I do. I suppose it has something to do with having to constantly censor my sharing for 10 years in AA. I guess my tenure in AA was really one long apology for living and breathing. I suppose the biggest apology we owe is for the harm we did to ourselves in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. > > Javajenv@... wrote: > > > > I like nothing more than getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from people who have spoken there piece strongly. > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 I know I apologize inappropriately and it's because of my involvement with AA. People look at me funny, and I think it's because they're trying to figure out if I'm being sarcastic. I understand it better now--a severely depressed guy wrote out 12 steps aimed at helping people to achieve his state of depression. Except he mistook the chemical imbalance in his brain for a gift from God. It was just a treatable disease. Judith > I'm not exactly sure why I like this post so much, but I do. I suppose it has something to do with having to constantly censor my sharing for 10 years in AA. I guess my tenure in AA was really one long apology for living and breathing. I suppose the biggest apology we owe is for the harm we did to ourselves in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. > > Javajenv@... wrote: > > > > I like nothing more than getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from people who have spoken there piece strongly. > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 1999 Report Share Posted July 20, 1999 carol I agree, if mabey she said he was a dick, or slandered him in some way, but she was apologizing for her feelings, and i believe we have all done that a little to much, and all that does is lead second guessing, and not knowing how to make a descion. Peace Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 1999 Report Share Posted July 20, 1999 Hi I believe I know and can relate well to the problems that she is facing right now. When you have been constantly victimized your first response is to be sorry for everything. So I am drawing my conclusion on that. When you have been victimized by the rooms of AA and the 12 steps, you censor yourself, and it takes awhile to say what you truly feel again, so for Kim to start apologizing for her feelings, means you alone have devalued them. So I revoke your reinstitution of said apology, and demand you give it back to her, in turn you will be validating her feelings. Thats what this group is about , the need to be heard and not reprimanded. Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 1999 Report Share Posted July 20, 1999 Hi I believe I know and can relate well to the problems that she is facing right now. When you have been constantly victimized your first response is to be sorry for everything. So I am drawing my conclusion on that. When you have been victimized by the rooms of AA and the 12 steps, you censor yourself, and it takes awhile to say what you truly feel again, so for Kim to start apologizing for her feelings, means you alone have devalued them. So I revoke your reinstitution of said apology, and demand you give it back to her, in turn you will be validating her feelings. Thats what this group is about , the need to be heard and not reprimanded. Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 1999 Report Share Posted July 20, 1999 Hi Jen, Thanks for enlightening me to this phenomenon. I hadn't spent enough time in AA to be a victim of this, or some other reason perhaps. I now see that my accepting her apology, in this context, did more harm than good. In light of this new awareness, I will do what I can to rectify the situation. Thanks for your insight on this. Sincerely, Allan ___________=_ADZZXXH eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 1999 Report Share Posted July 20, 1999 Hi Jen, Thanks for enlightening me to this phenomenon. I hadn't spent enough time in AA to be a victim of this, or some other reason perhaps. I now see that my accepting her apology, in this context, did more harm than good. In light of this new awareness, I will do what I can to rectify the situation. Thanks for your insight on this. Sincerely, Allan ___________=_ADZZXXH eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Yo ; I seldom find myself in disagreement with you, but this is one of those times. I don't believe " Love is never having to say I'm sorry " If I choose to apologize to someone, should you discount me by saying my apology was not warranted. Are you standing up for me, or telling me I have poor judgement in front of everyone? I agree that apologies should not be forced on anyone, but isn't the reverse also true? Either way, someone is being told " You don't know your own mind, I'll tell you what is right. " That's the AA way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Yo ; I seldom find myself in disagreement with you, but this is one of those times. I don't believe " Love is never having to say I'm sorry " If I choose to apologize to someone, should you discount me by saying my apology was not warranted. Are you standing up for me, or telling me I have poor judgement in front of everyone? I agree that apologies should not be forced on anyone, but isn't the reverse also true? Either way, someone is being told " You don't know your own mind, I'll tell you what is right. " That's the AA way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Yo ; I seldom find myself in disagreement with you, but this is one of those times. I don't believe " Love is never having to say I'm sorry " If I choose to apologize to someone, should you discount me by saying my apology was not warranted. Are you standing up for me, or telling me I have poor judgement in front of everyone? I agree that apologies should not be forced on anyone, but isn't the reverse also true? Either way, someone is being told " You don't know your own mind, I'll tell you what is right. " That's the AA way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:58:34 -0700 To: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: A & A-oops Hi Carol; I think it is important to recognize that folks here know their own mind. If I tell my wife, " Gee I've never seen that outfit before, it looks great on you. " And she replies " Oh this old rag, I picked it up at a garage sale and it's not my color, etc " Is she being modest or telling me I have terrible taste? I feel she's telling me I don't have a clue to what looks good. It's AA our sponsor tells us we don't know our own minds. If I apologize to someone, the appropriate responses are accept or reject. Unless of course the person is my teacher of protocol, then they might tell me that an apology for so small an infraction is unnecessary. Or even that my apology was improperly worded. Otherwise I would think the person would believe I knew why I was apologizing. I think especially on this list, folks should be able to speak their mind as they see it, make the decisions they see fit, without being told even indirectly that they don't know why they are doing something. That is what we left behind in AA, other folks telling us what to say and what to believe and that we didn't know when dinner time was unless they were serving wine. > Errr, it is okay to apologize. Sometimes it is right and considerate to do > so and respects the other person and acknowledges your awareness that you > have not acted your best. But,,, then again I could be wrong. > Carol > > > > At 10:34 PM 7/19/99 EDT, you wrote: > > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than > >getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always > >apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self > >centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from > >people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't > >stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION > group. I > >am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we > >do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She > only > >apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I > revoke > >her apology > >Jen > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > >http://clickhere./click/553 > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Life is a candy store. > > Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at > http://www.bcrecovernet.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://clickhere./click/552 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups From: Javajenv@... Date sent: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:34:26 EDT To: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: A & A-oops Hi Jen; Below is a post you addressed to me on July 15, 1999 After I had explained rather strongly about my heart condition being the reason I chose abstinence. Actually I thought you expected and apology, I thought my post required none. Since you've said you hate people who expect apologies when someone states their opinion strongly, I guess you weren't expecting one. Thus I'm glad I didn't offer one. Unless things have changed, the moderator is kenr1@... Well It possibly could just be me but the tone of that last post seemed rather condesending. I was not aware the this group was for abstinance choosers only Jen > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than > getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always > apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self > centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from > people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't > stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION group. I > am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we > do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She only > apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I revoke > her apology > Jen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/553 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Good Point , Don't have access to my comments, but I guess my main affinity for Jen's stance was based upon years of being in AA and essentially apologizing for living and breathing. Felt so vindicated by that aspect of her post that I missed the invalidation factor. Oops........ D Hall wrote: > > Yo ; > > I seldom find myself in disagreement with you, but this is one of > those times. > > I don't believe " Love is never having to say I'm sorry " > > If I choose to apologize to someone, should you discount me by > saying my apology was not warranted. Are you standing up for > me, or telling me I have poor judgement in front of everyone? > > I agree that apologies should not be forced on anyone, but isn't the > reverse also true? Either way, someone is being told " You don't > know your own mind, I'll tell you what is right. " That's the AA way. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. > Start with up to 150 Points for joining! > http://clickhere./click/475 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Yo ; Boy do I understand being sick and tired of apologizing for nothing. It's so easy to go the other way. A person that's been shy like I was, gets some assertiveness training. What did I do? Right through assertive to aggressive. Takes some getting used to. But it feels SO GOOD, to state something like there is absolutely no doubt in my mind I'm correct and that's ok, but then I began trying to jam my opinions down other folks throat when they didn't give a crap one way or the other. Took maybe six months to circle around near assertive. We who abstain have a problem. First, being free of alcohol is an abnormal condition compared to the larger part of our life. Second, we seek to be extremists in one small area of our life and generally be moderate in the rest of our life. No small chore if you think about it, all or nothing with alcohol, but we don't want all or nothing thinking in the rest of our life. We are a walking contradiction Looked at that way, it is easy to see how all or nothing can slip or spill over into other areas. Almost inevitable. Since we are not living by a pat formula, we will make our own mistakes apply our own corrections and if the correction doesn't work, I hope we don't do the AA way and try the failed one more intensley, I hope we try something different Rose is fond of saying " I'm doing something different even if it's wrong! " Thank you , ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Hi No I never expected an apology, only if you stepped on my foot, or ran into the back of my car or shot my dog. Accidents warrent apologies. Feelings don't. In that letter, I was confused by the tone, and was wondering was this an absinence sight, just a question, thats all Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Hi No I never expected an apology, only if you stepped on my foot, or ran into the back of my car or shot my dog. Accidents warrent apologies. Feelings don't. In that letter, I was confused by the tone, and was wondering was this an absinence sight, just a question, thats all Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 My names is and I am new to this list. Briefly, I would like to state a few things about me as an introduction. I am 49, a college student, ultrarunner, and disabled veteran. I have been diagnosed with PTSD from Vietnam combat and other trauma that is based in my childhood from physical and verbal abuse. I have an extensive history of substance abuse (25 years). Currently, I help coordinate a self-management and recovery group SMART here in Wyoming. About 2 years ago I relapsed while in a relationship and the law became involved. I was placed on probation and I am required to attend 3 -12 step meetings a week during the course of this probation. I attend 12 step meetings nightly and one could say that I am " in the thick of it all " . All the irrational, illogical, bullshit that is, and, at times, it is extremely irritating for to sit and listen to this false and dangerous doctrine. I have been thoroughly schooled and taught to change my behavior using the cognitive behavioral approach to therapy (CBT) and this 12 step stuff sharply conflicts with the rational teachings that are found in CBT. My purpose here is to seek new ideas, concepts, that relate to changing self-defeating behaviors and sharing them with others. I believe, as well as most here, that 12 step dogma only work for a few and for those that it does not work (99%) it is dangrerous and could be fatal. After returning from the meeting last night and listening to 12 step hardliners of the group preach and indoctrinate the youth present into 12 step dogma I am telling myself there is another way. Knowing that what they " preach " is dangerous for them if they believe and practice what is " suggested " , I am seekings ways that I can help these young people change addiction bahavior using the CBT approach which makes great sense to me. I am however, and as you can imagine, up against a powerful vicous machine as it is found in the 12 steps. I have a desire to help the young people use their brain and rational thought processes. Does anyone have any suggestions here. Re: A & A-oops > > Hi Carol; > > I think it is important to recognize that folks here know their own > mind. If I tell my wife, " Gee I've never seen that outfit before, it > looks great on you. " And she replies " Oh this old rag, I picked it > up at a garage sale and it's not my color, etc " Is she being modest > or telling me I have terrible taste? I feel she's telling me I don't have > a clue to what looks good. It's AA our sponsor tells us we don't > know our own minds. If I apologize to someone, the appropriate > responses are accept or reject. Unless of course the person is my > teacher of protocol, then they might tell me that an apology for so > small an infraction is unnecessary. Or even that my apology was > improperly worded. > > Otherwise I would think the person would believe I knew why I was > apologizing. I think especially on this list, folks should be able to > speak their mind as they see it, make the decisions they see fit, > without being told even indirectly that they don't know why they are > doing something. That is what we left behind in AA, other folks > telling us what to say and what to believe and that we didn't know > when dinner time was unless they were serving wine. > > > > > > Errr, it is okay to apologize. Sometimes it is right and considerate to do > > so and respects the other person and acknowledges your awareness that you > > have not acted your best. But,,, then again I could be wrong. > > Carol > > > > > > > > At 10:34 PM 7/19/99 EDT, you wrote: > > > we should all be ranting more in my opinion. I like nothing more than > > >getting a good rant off. It proves to me my closed AA mind, and always > > >apologetic self is slowly disapearing. I have no time anymore for self > > >centred individuals who hangdog around just WAITING to accept apologies from > > >people who have spoken there piece strongly. As a matter of fact I can't > > >stand people who think they deserve an apology. This is a DISCUSSION > > group. I > > >am to tired to have to explain my every thought or statement. Thats what we > > >do here, discuss vent sometimes take stands. But we don't apologize. She > > only > > >apologized out of habit, sort of like God BLessing when one sneezes. I > > revoke > > >her apology > > >Jen > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > > >http://clickhere./click/553 > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Life is a candy store. > > > > Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at > > http://www.bcrecovernet.org > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > > http://clickhere./click/552 > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. > Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 > at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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