Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Friends that are friends of AA , The label for us is: " Not real alcoholics " Jan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But wait the BB says no one can say whether another is an alki or not. An example of another way 12 steppers dispute their own dogma. Personally I don't believe there is even such a thing as alcoholism. The whole powerlessness over some disease notion is fantasy from my perspective. So in a way we aren't real alcoholics because there is no such thing. There was an article in the paper recently titled, " Different? Dysfunctional? Join the Club " . It starts out describing a group called, Clutters Anonymous which is modeled after the twelve steps of AA. They admit they are powerless over their clutter and that cluttering is a disease. It has as much scientific basis and proof of it's validity as the AA disease model does. It says in 1999 a report about Americans at mid-life found one in five had attended a self help group. That there are 800 kinds of groups holding 500,000 meetings per year. Gee, kind of makes me feel left out, and glad to be free of it. Other groups, Mistresses Anonymous, Procrastinators Anonymous, Fundamentalists Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, and an AA offshoot for those who love sadomasochism. One of the S & M groupers showed up at a meeting sporting a leather vest, chaps, nipple rings and nothing, else declared he was aglow, people have a need to be wanted , to be the best that they can be. I mean a guy should be able to wear that if he wants but where is the connection here. There is even an outfit called, Share, where groupaholics spend entire days flitting from one group to the next. A couple of sensible comments are made stating that problems once seen as nornal tribulations of life have been elavated to " diseases " trivializing true suffering. When you think of human suffering , the first people to come to mind are not clutterers. Another states that a concern about self help groups becoming the main focus of communal life is that more and more people are gathering in forums where they define themselves by their wounds (diseases such as alcoholism) and as victims entitled to redress. Everyone running around wearing a crown of thorns does not do any service to true victims. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 , Well said. I could never swallow alcoholism being a disease nor likening it to diabetes or cancer. Turning behavioral laziness into diseases negates the pain that behavior caused others. And it is laziness. In this world we live in it is harder work to be a decent citizen. It is much easier to rationalize and justify anti-social behavior and our victims everywhere culture promotes it. Jan Re: Friends that are friends of AA > , >The label for us is: " Not real alcoholics " > >Jan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >But wait the BB says no one can say whether another is an alki or not. >An example of another way 12 steppers dispute their own dogma. > >Personally I don't believe there is even such a thing as alcoholism. The >whole powerlessness over some disease notion is fantasy from my >perspective. So in a way we aren't real alcoholics because there is no >such thing. There was an article in the paper recently titled, > " Different? Dysfunctional? Join the Club " . It starts out describing a >group called, Clutters Anonymous which is modeled after the twelve steps >of AA. They admit they are powerless over their clutter and that >cluttering is a disease. It has as much scientific basis and proof of >it's validity as the AA disease model does. It says in 1999 a report >about Americans at mid-life found one in five had attended a self help >group. That there are 800 kinds of groups holding 500,000 meetings per >year. Gee, kind of makes me feel left out, and glad to be free of it. >Other groups, Mistresses Anonymous, Procrastinators Anonymous, >Fundamentalists Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, and an AA offshoot for >those who love sadomasochism. One of the S & M groupers showed up at a >meeting sporting a leather vest, chaps, nipple rings and nothing, else >declared he was aglow, people have a need to be wanted , to be the best >that they can be. I mean a guy should be able to wear that if he wants >but where is the connection here. There is even an outfit called, >Share, where groupaholics spend entire days flitting from one group to >the next. A couple of sensible comments are made stating that problems >once seen as nornal tribulations of life have been elavated to > " diseases " trivializing true suffering. When you think of human >suffering , the first people to come to mind are not clutterers. Another >states that a concern about self help groups becoming the main focus of >communal life is that more and more people are gathering in forums where >they define themselves by their wounds (diseases such as alcoholism) and >as victims entitled to redress. Everyone running around wearing a crown >of thorns does not do any service to true victims. > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. >Start with up to 150 Points for joining! >http://clickhere./click/475 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 , Well said. I could never swallow alcoholism being a disease nor likening it to diabetes or cancer. Turning behavioral laziness into diseases negates the pain that behavior caused others. And it is laziness. In this world we live in it is harder work to be a decent citizen. It is much easier to rationalize and justify anti-social behavior and our victims everywhere culture promotes it. Jan Re: Friends that are friends of AA > , >The label for us is: " Not real alcoholics " > >Jan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >But wait the BB says no one can say whether another is an alki or not. >An example of another way 12 steppers dispute their own dogma. > >Personally I don't believe there is even such a thing as alcoholism. The >whole powerlessness over some disease notion is fantasy from my >perspective. So in a way we aren't real alcoholics because there is no >such thing. There was an article in the paper recently titled, > " Different? Dysfunctional? Join the Club " . It starts out describing a >group called, Clutters Anonymous which is modeled after the twelve steps >of AA. They admit they are powerless over their clutter and that >cluttering is a disease. It has as much scientific basis and proof of >it's validity as the AA disease model does. It says in 1999 a report >about Americans at mid-life found one in five had attended a self help >group. That there are 800 kinds of groups holding 500,000 meetings per >year. Gee, kind of makes me feel left out, and glad to be free of it. >Other groups, Mistresses Anonymous, Procrastinators Anonymous, >Fundamentalists Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, and an AA offshoot for >those who love sadomasochism. One of the S & M groupers showed up at a >meeting sporting a leather vest, chaps, nipple rings and nothing, else >declared he was aglow, people have a need to be wanted , to be the best >that they can be. I mean a guy should be able to wear that if he wants >but where is the connection here. There is even an outfit called, >Share, where groupaholics spend entire days flitting from one group to >the next. A couple of sensible comments are made stating that problems >once seen as nornal tribulations of life have been elavated to > " diseases " trivializing true suffering. When you think of human >suffering , the first people to come to mind are not clutterers. Another >states that a concern about self help groups becoming the main focus of >communal life is that more and more people are gathering in forums where >they define themselves by their wounds (diseases such as alcoholism) and >as victims entitled to redress. Everyone running around wearing a crown >of thorns does not do any service to true victims. > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. >Start with up to 150 Points for joining! >http://clickhere./click/475 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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