Guest guest Posted July 26, 1999 Report Share Posted July 26, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups To: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:33:56 -0700 Organization: My Deja Email (http://www.my-deja.com:80) Subject: Re: 1 size > > > --- > > > > > > > > >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking > >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be > >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, > >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. > (snip) > > > Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA > >at the government level. > > --------------------------- > > The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involv> > When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a l> ~Rita > > p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my un> > Rita; I'll have to give you that one, because I believe you are right. The Meetings are the control mechanism, the " Big Brother is watching you " part. I believe from what I have read of RR that it depends mostly on the phenomenon known as " Flash of insight " when folks read Jack Trimpey's book or read his website. The information compared to the AA info out there, is quite new to most folks. AA gained many converts from Jack 's article in The Saturday Evening Post in the 50's. Folks had just not heard about " Don't drink one day at a time " and many said " Gee, I can do that " and did. My shrink never had a magic wand, she gave me new information and better ways to use the good part of the information I had. Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, best left to medical people. > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. > Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 > at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 HI Rita, folks I have heard that in general EAPs actually evolved out of AA's doing 12th stepping in corporations. If this is true, then it shows the immense influence of AA in American culture. When I posted Rita's story on addict-l, AA champion Phil asked me something like " Do you expect an EAP counselor not to advocate AA? " . Another AA on the list giggled at what she thought a sarcastic question. In fact, it probably WAS a sarcastic question, given it came from Phil and the immense AA influence in the EAPs. I replied to the second AA asking her why she thought it funny, pretending that I thought the question to be straight up and a pr, which in a sane world, it could be! Pete On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:45:51 -0700 Railroad Rita wrote: > Sorry... " EAP " stands for " Employee Assistance Program " . They were originally conceived as counseling programs jointly sponsored by management and labor unions in large companies, which employees could voluntarily attend if they were having problems (drugs/marital/emotional) that were affecting their job performance, and the counseling provided would be confidential and would help them return to peak performance. > > Some EAP's are better than others, and some are downright horrific and betray the entire concept and indeed betray the most basic tenets of any counseling profession. > > The EAP in my company (a state transportation agency) is probably one of the worst anywhere. It is an offshoot of the company's Department of Discipline (YES! We actually have such a department, whose sole function is to mete out punishments for the slightest infraction of the hundreds of rules!) and the counselors' loyalty is to management, not to the employees they are supposed to be " helping " . > > About 8 years ago, a memo was sent out to the effect that the EAP will no longer address marital or off-the-job problems, nor accept any volunteers. Henceforth, we were told, employees will be referred to the EAP only if they have a " positive " reading on a randomly-given drug/alcohol test, and at that point they MUST enroll in the " EAP Program " and do EVERYTHING they are told, or else face whatever " discipline " the EAP recommends, including dismissal. > > Sounds really therapeutic, doesn't it. > > This is why, when my Dr. wrote a letter to the EAP clinical manager stating that I showed no signs of alcohol dependence and was being privately treated for depression, the letter was summarily dismissed, and none of the EAP counselors ever even tried to consult with him. Instead, they reveled in the power accorded them and continued to tell me that if I didn't " admit " that I had an " incurable disease " , I would be considered " non-compliant " with their " treatment " and would not be allowed back to work. I later found out this was BS; the EAP program is 9 months long and everyone who does not have a second " positive " is allowed back to work within that time. The threats and coercion are just the personal S & M trip of the EAP goons. I was allowed back after " only " 7 months, despite fighting them tooth and nail; probably my federal lawsuit helped a bit. > > " AVRT " is the personal self-control method advocated by Rational Recovery. I do not buy into all of RR's or Trimpey's ideas, but have utilized elements of AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) as well as many of Audrey Kishline's ideas expressed in " Moderation Management " to successfully engage in responsible drinking behavior. Of course, I never did tell the EAP goons that I was drinking moderately; they'd have called it a " relapse " . I led them to believe I was abstaining completely, which didn't impress them anyway, since they continued to call me an " addict " . However, I certainly have made an unshakable commitment to abstinence before and during working hours, and no amount of their attempted brainwashing can make me doubt myself or believe that I will ever again have a " positive " d/a reading on the job, or at any other inappropriate time. Should I ever have any thought of drinking at an inappropriate time, I use AVRT to say something such as " IT wants a drink now, but I know it wouldn't be appropriate, so I will ignore " it " . " > > This works for me, and I know it has worked for others, some of whom had really serious drinking problems and need to abstain totally. If some other method works for you, that's great too. People on this list have used many different methods, and bits of many methods, and we enjoy hearing each others' experiences. > > ~Rita > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. > Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 > at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. Jan Re: 1 size > >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >> >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >> >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >> >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. >> (snip) >> > >> Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >> >at the government level. >> >> --------------------------- >> >> The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involv> >> When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a l> ~Rita >> >> p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my un> >> > >Rita; > >I'll have to give you that one, because I believe you are right. The >Meetings are the control mechanism, the " Big Brother is watching >you " part. > >I believe from what I have read of RR that it depends mostly on the >phenomenon known as " Flash of insight " when folks read Jack >Trimpey's book or read his website. The information compared to >the AA info out there, is quite new to most folks. AA gained many >converts from Jack 's article in The Saturday Evening >Post in the 50's. Folks had just not heard about " Don't drink one >day at a time " and many said " Gee, I can do that " and did. > >My shrink never had a magic wand, she gave me new information >and better ways to use the good part of the information I had. > >Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >best left to medical people. > > > > > >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >> Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >> at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 >> >> >> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. Jan Re: 1 size > >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >> >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >> >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >> >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. >> (snip) >> > >> Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >> >at the government level. >> >> --------------------------- >> >> The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involv> >> When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a l> ~Rita >> >> p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my un> >> > >Rita; > >I'll have to give you that one, because I believe you are right. The >Meetings are the control mechanism, the " Big Brother is watching >you " part. > >I believe from what I have read of RR that it depends mostly on the >phenomenon known as " Flash of insight " when folks read Jack >Trimpey's book or read his website. The information compared to >the AA info out there, is quite new to most folks. AA gained many >converts from Jack 's article in The Saturday Evening >Post in the 50's. Folks had just not heard about " Don't drink one >day at a time " and many said " Gee, I can do that " and did. > >My shrink never had a magic wand, she gave me new information >and better ways to use the good part of the information I had. > >Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >best left to medical people. > > > > > >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >> Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >> at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 >> >> >> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. Jan Re: 1 size > >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >> >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >> >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >> >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. >> (snip) >> > >> Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >> >at the government level. >> >> --------------------------- >> >> The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involv> >> When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a l> ~Rita >> >> p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my un> >> > >Rita; > >I'll have to give you that one, because I believe you are right. The >Meetings are the control mechanism, the " Big Brother is watching >you " part. > >I believe from what I have read of RR that it depends mostly on the >phenomenon known as " Flash of insight " when folks read Jack >Trimpey's book or read his website. The information compared to >the AA info out there, is quite new to most folks. AA gained many >converts from Jack 's article in The Saturday Evening >Post in the 50's. Folks had just not heard about " Don't drink one >day at a time " and many said " Gee, I can do that " and did. > >My shrink never had a magic wand, she gave me new information >and better ways to use the good part of the information I had. > >Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >best left to medical people. > > > > > >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >> Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >> at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 >> >> >> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , What is RGD? Jan Re: 1 size >Hi Rita, > All RR groups became SMART after a certain point. There are breif 3-4 >week AVRT training sessions, given for free or fee, depending on who provides >them. Some RR groups never bothered chaning their name to SMART to add to the >confusion. RR now is completely opposed to the group method, saying that it >causes a disorder called RGD. > >P.S. I think that at least some of Trimpey's rantings are meant to be taken >with a good sense of humor! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , What is RGD? Jan Re: 1 size >Hi Rita, > All RR groups became SMART after a certain point. There are breif 3-4 >week AVRT training sessions, given for free or fee, depending on who provides >them. Some RR groups never bothered chaning their name to SMART to add to the >confusion. RR now is completely opposed to the group method, saying that it >causes a disorder called RGD. > >P.S. I think that at least some of Trimpey's rantings are meant to be taken >with a good sense of humor! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 , What is RGD? Jan Re: 1 size >Hi Rita, > All RR groups became SMART after a certain point. There are breif 3-4 >week AVRT training sessions, given for free or fee, depending on who provides >them. Some RR groups never bothered chaning their name to SMART to add to the >confusion. RR now is completely opposed to the group method, saying that it >causes a disorder called RGD. > >P.S. I think that at least some of Trimpey's rantings are meant to be taken >with a good sense of humor! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 --- >, > >I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak >and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your >drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way >out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the >most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all >over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand >intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. > >Jan > ------------------------------ If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " ~Rita >> >>Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >>business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >>best left to medical people. >> >> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 --- >, > >I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak >and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your >drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way >out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the >most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all >over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand >intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. > >Jan > ------------------------------ If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " ~Rita >> >>Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >>business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >>best left to medical people. >> >> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 --- >, > >I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak >and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your >drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way >out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the >most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all >over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand >intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. > >Jan > ------------------------------ If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " ~Rita >> >>Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >>business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >>best left to medical people. >> >> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 At 04:47 AM 7/28/99 -0700, you wrote: > If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. > > The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " > >~Rita This is very strange logic indeed. I would love to ask those people how they know this " disease " is present when the person who supposedly has it experiences no problems as a result of having it. It's funny- in the old days, I remember reading that you were an " addict " or " alcoholic " if you experienced a certain set of symptoms, but now apparently even that is no longer a requirement! This sounds more like a witch hunt, where the witchfinder's opinion is the only evidence needed. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 At 04:47 AM 7/28/99 -0700, you wrote: > If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. > > The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " > >~Rita This is very strange logic indeed. I would love to ask those people how they know this " disease " is present when the person who supposedly has it experiences no problems as a result of having it. It's funny- in the old days, I remember reading that you were an " addict " or " alcoholic " if you experienced a certain set of symptoms, but now apparently even that is no longer a requirement! This sounds more like a witch hunt, where the witchfinder's opinion is the only evidence needed. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Hi Rita, You did cross my mind when I wrote the post you replied to. I have read about your conflicts at your job and believe me, I agree with someone else who considered it a witch hunt in your case. I apologize if you felt my post was directed at you. It wasn't. I guess it was a quick slam dunk against the fact that everyone and their brother wants to be in on the 12-step treatment, psychoanalyzing methods now, including big companies. Seems like in their zeal to intervene in the lives of their workers, some get caught up in the net, like dolphins in tuna nets. But I suppose also work environments have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to their employees' on-the-job behavior and this has nothing to do with your case. I used to come into work hungover and probably smelled of alcohol (although I hoped if I sloshed enough perfume on, no one would notice). Plus I had the shakes real bad. No one I worked with was in any danger however, were I an airline pilot or running machinery alongside others my alcohol abuse could very well put innocent people in danger. If in fact someone got hurt, the company I worked for would be sued big time because of me, then where do you suppose the money to pay damages comes from. Customers, of course - up go prices. I understand the need for a company to set limits. Should the entire corporation or business tiptoe around what I do in my spare time? I wish that companies would get out of the EAP/treatment/12-step business. Like I said before, get back to telling bad actor employees to straighten up and fly right or find somewhere else to work. Rita, perhaps if your company had this 'old-fashioned' attitude, you wouldn't have even been noticed. I hope I've clarified my reasons for saying what I did, and again, I apologize if it touched a nerve. I didn't intend to make light of your situation. Jan Re: 1 size > > >--- > > > > >>, >> >>I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak >>and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your >>drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way >>out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the >>most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all >>over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand >>intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. >> >>Jan >> >------------------------------ > > If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. > > The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " > >~Rita > > >>> >>>Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >>>business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >>>best left to medical people. >>> >>> >> > > >--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Hi Rita, You did cross my mind when I wrote the post you replied to. I have read about your conflicts at your job and believe me, I agree with someone else who considered it a witch hunt in your case. I apologize if you felt my post was directed at you. It wasn't. I guess it was a quick slam dunk against the fact that everyone and their brother wants to be in on the 12-step treatment, psychoanalyzing methods now, including big companies. Seems like in their zeal to intervene in the lives of their workers, some get caught up in the net, like dolphins in tuna nets. But I suppose also work environments have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to their employees' on-the-job behavior and this has nothing to do with your case. I used to come into work hungover and probably smelled of alcohol (although I hoped if I sloshed enough perfume on, no one would notice). Plus I had the shakes real bad. No one I worked with was in any danger however, were I an airline pilot or running machinery alongside others my alcohol abuse could very well put innocent people in danger. If in fact someone got hurt, the company I worked for would be sued big time because of me, then where do you suppose the money to pay damages comes from. Customers, of course - up go prices. I understand the need for a company to set limits. Should the entire corporation or business tiptoe around what I do in my spare time? I wish that companies would get out of the EAP/treatment/12-step business. Like I said before, get back to telling bad actor employees to straighten up and fly right or find somewhere else to work. Rita, perhaps if your company had this 'old-fashioned' attitude, you wouldn't have even been noticed. I hope I've clarified my reasons for saying what I did, and again, I apologize if it touched a nerve. I didn't intend to make light of your situation. Jan Re: 1 size > > >--- > > > > >>, >> >>I agree. Employers should just stick to 'Buddy, you are hungover and wreak >>and we can see how it is affecting your work here so either limit your >>drunks to Friday and Saturday or don't let the door hit you on your way >>out.' On the other hand, these days, employers are getting sued over the >>most frivolous of things and they are protecting their corporate asses all >>over the place. Like so many other things, EAP's were set up with grand >>intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with. >> >>Jan >> >------------------------------ > > If my employer (OR its EAP) had taken the approach you said, I never even would have been _spoken_ to! Not only was I never hung over or impaired, but far from having job performance problems, I had, just 2 months prior to the " positive " Breathalyzer (which was less than half the DUI level) been awarded the " 15 Years of Exemplary Service " award for excellent safety record and attendance. > > The rationale for the forced " treatment " has nothing to do with lawsuits. It is a power trip (we'll hurt you for your own good) based on the ludicrous and false notion of the INEVITABLE PROGRESSION of " alcoholic disease " . I was actually told, " You may not have any job, family, or health problems NOW, but you should be grateful to us for getting you treatment to halt the progression of you disease so you won't START having problems! " > >~Rita > > >>> >>>Mostly, I don't believe employers should be in the treatment >>>business, whether it is effective or not. This is a medical realm, >>>best left to medical people. >>> >>> >> > > >--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Hi Jan, Trimpey refers to recovery group disorder. He and Lois Trimpey coined the phrase, however. It would not appear in the DSM for example. One has RGD if recovery groups are harming rather than helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 God have mercy - I have recovery group disorder now. Wah, wah, wah, I jus wanna be a normal quirky human, pleeeeease!!! Jan Re: 1 size >Hi Jan, > Trimpey refers to recovery group disorder. He and Lois Trimpey coined the >phrase, however. It would not appear in the DSM for example. One has RGD if >recovery groups are harming rather than helping. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 God have mercy - I have recovery group disorder now. Wah, wah, wah, I jus wanna be a normal quirky human, pleeeeease!!! Jan Re: 1 size >Hi Jan, > Trimpey refers to recovery group disorder. He and Lois Trimpey coined the >phrase, however. It would not appear in the DSM for example. One has RGD if >recovery groups are harming rather than helping. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, >NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! >http://clickhere./click/606 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.