Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 " Let go and let god " seems to fit... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6154 > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into a > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. In AA > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 " Let go and let god " seems to fit... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6154 > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into a > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. In AA > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:20:53 +0900 Organization: CBK Int'l Inc. To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step- freeegroups> Subject: 1 size > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into a > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. In AA > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > Hi ; I was in the hospital on my way to X-Ray, struggling with this one size hospital robe, when the xray tech said " One size fits none " . I liked it and used it to apply to AA. However, from what I've heard of RR it's similar in many ways to AA. Especially in the fact that one man is the final authority, the My way or the highway approach of AA. I classify myself as a " Relatively Free Thinker " That is compared to most of the folks I know, I'm open to way more ideas. Formulas and pat answers for human behavior bother me except in very limited contexts. Here on the list, a formula is necessary to accomplish the purpose of having the list. AA has given me a pretty good feel of what a formula for living can do to a person. Does it really matter if it's a scientific formula? I don't think so, other than once established the scientific formula might have the potential to do more damage than the religous one. If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, because they would be the ones positioned to do so. I would guess the choice would be SOS, because some of SOS people still believe in " Disease " alcoholism and outside of it's lack of formal steps, some informal ones were talked about the last time I was on their list. It is I believe the closest to AA, outside of 16steps which is male unfriendly and mostly written to show that women are oppressed by our culture. Pardon, it assumes women are oppressed by our culture. I belong to a 16steps list or I did unless they see that. I'm one of three men on a 78 member list if that says something. What I would look for is just more of the same, with the same basic group calling the shots and holding the purse strings. The old 12 step centers will become the new SOS centers, with a somewhat altered formula. Same counsellors could learn it in a few weeks. Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA at the government level. AA's mostly hate his guts. They'd vote for a program of Wiccan's before they'd vote for RR. SOS claims to be secular. However, my first day on their list there were over 40 posts on " Spritual Experience " and a few more on proper " Humility " . Not much did I see on staying sober. I unsubscribed after a week of it. It was just too hard to weed out the twenty odd posts worth reading out of the 130 coming in. About 4 guys pretty much controlled the dialogue. Sort of like an AA meeting. I think it was Ben, who was on SOS and suggested this list, because somebody on SOS came down hard on me for " AA bashing " He came down on me for " Unproven facts " . Of course I was speaking of my own experiences and when I repeated that he merely said he'd stand by his earlier statement. Other words he called me a liar. So the AA mentality is there in spades and I would see SOS easily being the replacement and that boys and girls would be a distinction without a difference. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does. > http://clickhere./click/554 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 these are priceless!! judith > Good one, ! > > A Chicken and an egg are in bed together. > > The chicken is smoking with a satisfied smile on its face. > > The egg is scowling. > > The egg mutters: " Well I guess we answered THAT question! " > > > > > wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6190 > > Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups > > Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:11:23 -0700 > > From: rashley@... > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups > > Subject: Re: 1 size > > Okay ; > > > > American businessman goes to Hellsinki and has a hooker sent to > > his room. > > > > After they're done he says " My Finnish isn't very good " > > > > She replies " Your foreplay ain't much either " > > > > Or was it his ice cream? > > > > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 In a message dated 7/22/99 6:52:44 AM Central Daylight Time, WROSE2@... writes: << A Chicken and an egg are in bed together. The chicken is smoking with a satisfied smile on its face. The egg is scowling. The egg mutters: " Well I guess we answered THAT question! " >> I like this! Gonna pass this one on! Make a great day everyone, and welcome to the New Kid! Glad you found this forum! ) Sure glad I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came to believe or was it I believe I.... > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6154 > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into a > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. In > AA > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 And AA says the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results...now, wait a minute...??? I'm gonna get married for the THIRD TIME!!! OH myigod! I'M INSANE!!!!!!!! Let's see how many meetings-over and over and expecting different results??? What???!!! Huh? Hand me another Lithium, Doc...! (Just kidding-couldn't resist ranting a little this morning!) <7n6qob$m42-egroups> wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6187 > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6 154 > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into > a > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > In > > AA > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Good one, ! A Chicken and an egg are in bed together. The chicken is smoking with a satisfied smile on its face. The egg is scowling. The egg mutters: " Well I guess we answered THAT question! " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6190 > Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups > Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:11:23 -0700 > From: rashley@... > To: 12-step-freeeGroups > Subject: Re: 1 size > Okay ; > > American businessman goes to Hellsinki and has a hooker sent to > his room. > > After they're done he says " My Finnish isn't very good " > > She replies " Your foreplay ain't much either " > > Or was it his ice cream? > > > > > > > > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start =6154 > > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into > > a > > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > > In > > > AA > > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Hi , It's Charlie's third, too...or is it two...thirds??? I had always heard three's a charm... But...If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again??? So is that doublespeak..or triplespeak...?? Insanity is great-I got it from AA!!! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6194 > Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups > Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:44:43 -0700 > From: WROSE2@... > To: 12-step-freeeGroups > Subject: Re: 1 size > > Hi ; > > Me Too. Rose is my third, I'm her second. Ain't insanity great? > > > > > And AA says the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior > > over and over and expecting different results...now, wait a minute...??? > > > > I'm gonna get married for the THIRD TIME!!! > > > > OH myigod! I'M INSANE!!!!!!!! > > > > Let's see how many meetings-over and over and expecting different > > results??? > > > > > > What???!!! > > > > Huh? > > > > Hand me another Lithium, Doc...! > > > > > > (Just kidding-couldn't resist ranting a little this morning!) > > > > > > > > > > > > <7n6qob$m42-egroups> wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6 187 > > > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > > > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > > > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?sta rt=6 > > 154 > > > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated > > into > > > a > > > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > > > In > > > > AA > > > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:11:23 -0700 From: rashley@... To: 12-step-freeeGroups Subject: Re: 1 size Okay ; American businessman goes to Hellsinki and has a hooker sent to his room. After they're done he says " My Finnish isn't very good " She replies " Your foreplay ain't much either " Or was it his ice cream? > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6154 > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into > a > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > In > > AA > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/553 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:44:43 -0700 From: WROSE2@... To: 12-step-freeeGroups Subject: Re: 1 size Hi ; Me Too. Rose is my third, I'm her second. Ain't insanity great? > And AA says the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior > over and over and expecting different results...now, wait a minute...??? > > I'm gonna get married for the THIRD TIME!!! > > OH myigod! I'M INSANE!!!!!!!! > > Let's see how many meetings-over and over and expecting different > results??? > > > What???!!! > > Huh? > > Hand me another Lithium, Doc...! > > > (Just kidding-couldn't resist ranting a little this morning!) > > > > > > <7n6qob$m42-egroups> wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6187 > > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6 > 154 > > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated > into > > a > > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > > In > > > AA > > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Was the salesman clueless? > Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/555 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Hi ; I got this one pulled on me in the hotel bar where I worked. Bob " That condom I used last night was so old I could barely read the serial number. " " Bob, I've never seen a serial number on one. " Bob " That's cause you never had it unrolled far enough. " This guy got me everytime for maybe the better part of a year. He never seemed to run out of them. Rose and I both liked the Chicken and egg, Rose about rolled out of bed laughing when I told her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Hi , folks SOS is AA infiltrated. It was always just Atheist/Agnostic AA, and founded by ex AA members, but it's been deliberately infiltrated by active AAs - AA Commando Jim Shirk is on an SOS list. Basically, SOS is becoming an AA front - as the " Spiritual not Religious " beullshit is finally beong blown open, and members are lost to SOS who will start to inherit the mandatory attendance mealticket, SOS will be the " Outer Cult " with the Disease Concept outsider doctrine, which will be used to suck ppl into the the inner cult AA with its religious Insider Doctrine. Btw, can you let me know that 16 step list? I'd like to join. Pete On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:41:24 -0600 D Hall wrote: > > Hi ; > > I was in the hospital on my way to X-Ray, struggling with this one > size hospital robe, when the xray tech said " One size fits none " . I > liked it and used it to apply to AA. > > However, from what I've heard of RR it's similar in many ways to > AA. Especially in the fact that one man is the final authority, the > My way or the highway approach of AA. > > I classify myself as a " Relatively Free Thinker " That is compared > to most of the folks I know, I'm open to way more ideas. Formulas > and pat answers for human behavior bother me except in very > limited contexts. Here on the list, a formula is necessary to > accomplish the purpose of having the list. > > AA has given me a pretty good feel of what a formula for living can > do to a person. Does it really matter if it's a scientific formula? I > don't think so, other than once established the scientific formula > might have the potential to do more damage than the religous one. > > If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking > will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be > the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, > because they would be the ones positioned to do so. I would > guess the choice would be SOS, because some of SOS people > still believe in " Disease " alcoholism and outside of it's lack of > formal steps, some informal ones were talked about the last time I > was on their list. It is I believe the closest to AA, outside of > 16steps which is male unfriendly and mostly written to show that > women are oppressed by our culture. Pardon, it assumes women > are oppressed by our culture. I belong to a 16steps list or I did > unless they see that. I'm one of three men on a 78 member list if > that says something. > > What I would look for is just more of the same, with the same > basic group calling the shots and holding the purse strings. The > old 12 step centers will become the new SOS centers, with a > somewhat altered formula. Same counsellors could learn it in a > few weeks. Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA > at the government level. AA's mostly hate his guts. They'd vote for > a program of Wiccan's before they'd vote for RR. > > SOS claims to be secular. However, my first day on their list there > were over 40 posts on " Spritual Experience " and a few more on > proper " Humility " . Not much did I see on staying sober. I > unsubscribed after a week of it. It was just too hard to weed out > the twenty odd posts worth reading out of the 130 coming in. > About 4 guys pretty much controlled the dialogue. Sort of like an > AA meeting. I think it was Ben, who was on SOS and suggested > this list, because somebody on SOS came down hard on me for > " AA bashing " He came down on me for " Unproven facts " . Of > course I was speaking of my own experiences and when I repeated > that he merely said he'd stand by his earlier statement. Other > words he called me a liar. So the AA mentality is there in spades > and I would see SOS easily being the replacement and that boys > and girls would be a distinction without a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does. > > http://clickhere./click/554 > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Was the salesman clueless? > Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/555 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 RR says YOU are the authority. Always. Better your prison than mine foust upon you. Carol At 08:41 PM 7/21/99 -0600, you wrote: >Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups >Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:20:53 +0900 > >Organization: CBK Int'l Inc. >To: " 12-step-freeegroups " <12-step- >freeegroups> >Subject: 1 size > >> I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into a >> marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. In AA >> any ole jungle will do in a pinch. >> >> > >Hi ; > >I was in the hospital on my way to X-Ray, struggling with this one >size hospital robe, when the xray tech said " One size fits none " . I >liked it and used it to apply to AA. > >However, from what I've heard of RR it's similar in many ways to >AA. Especially in the fact that one man is the final authority, the >My way or the highway approach of AA. > >I classify myself as a " Relatively Free Thinker " That is compared >to most of the folks I know, I'm open to way more ideas. Formulas >and pat answers for human behavior bother me except in very >limited contexts. Here on the list, a formula is necessary to >accomplish the purpose of having the list. > >AA has given me a pretty good feel of what a formula for living can >do to a person. Does it really matter if it's a scientific formula? I >don't think so, other than once established the scientific formula >might have the potential to do more damage than the religous one. > >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. I would >guess the choice would be SOS, because some of SOS people >still believe in " Disease " alcoholism and outside of it's lack of >formal steps, some informal ones were talked about the last time I >was on their list. It is I believe the closest to AA, outside of >16steps which is male unfriendly and mostly written to show that >women are oppressed by our culture. Pardon, it assumes women >are oppressed by our culture. I belong to a 16steps list or I did >unless they see that. I'm one of three men on a 78 member list if >that says something. > >What I would look for is just more of the same, with the same >basic group calling the shots and holding the purse strings. The >old 12 step centers will become the new SOS centers, with a >somewhat altered formula. Same counsellors could learn it in a >few weeks. Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >at the government level. AA's mostly hate his guts. They'd vote for >a program of Wiccan's before they'd vote for RR. > >SOS claims to be secular. However, my first day on their list there >were over 40 posts on " Spritual Experience " and a few more on >proper " Humility " . Not much did I see on staying sober. I >unsubscribed after a week of it. It was just too hard to weed out >the twenty odd posts worth reading out of the 130 coming in. >About 4 guys pretty much controlled the dialogue. Sort of like an >AA meeting. I think it was Ben, who was on SOS and suggested >this list, because somebody on SOS came down hard on me for > " AA bashing " He came down on me for " Unproven facts " . Of >course I was speaking of my own experiences and when I repeated >that he merely said he'd stand by his earlier statement. Other >words he called me a liar. So the AA mentality is there in spades >and I would see SOS easily being the replacement and that boys >and girls would be a distinction without a difference. > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does. >> http://clickhere./click/554 >> >> >> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Was the salesman clueless? >Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere./click/555 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Life is a candy store. Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at http://www.bcrecovernet.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 1999 Report Share Posted July 24, 1999 Hi . I just love Finnish jokes, but they have to be told in Swedish with a Finnish accent to be really good. But this can go with english speaking people too. " The Finnish foreign minister Karjalajnen was visiting London, he had been a foreign minister for about 20 years. At the full dress dinner the English foreign minister asked: " How often to you have elections in Finland? " " Evely molning! " Bjørn D Hall wrote: > > Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups Date sent: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:11:23 -0700 From: rashley@... To: 12-step-freeeGroups Subject: Re: 1 size Okay ; American businessman goes to Hellsinki and has a hooker sent to his room. After they're done he says " My Finnish isn't very good " She replies " Your foreplay ain't much either " Or was it his ice cream? > I tried that let go and let God deal and nothing happened. Then I got > married(gulp) again and my Buddhist wife took over the deal and I came > to believe or was it I believe I.... > > > > > > " Let go and let god " seems to fit... > > > > > > > > wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6154 > > > I think the one size fits all idea was originally incorporated into > a > > > marketing jingle put out by either diaper or condom manufacturers. > In > > AA > > > any ole jungle will do in a pinch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want the power to purchase wisely? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/553 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [click here] > Click Here! > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 In a message dated 7/25/99 6:50:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, railroadrita@... writes: << I had already told the EAP counselor that I was using AVRT, by the way. >> 2 Questions: 1. What is an EAP counselor? 2. What is AVRT? Some of us here don't know all these abbreviations and lingo. Best, Luanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 In a message dated 7/25/99 6:50:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, railroadrita@... writes: << I had already told the EAP counselor that I was using AVRT, by the way. >> 2 Questions: 1. What is an EAP counselor? 2. What is AVRT? Some of us here don't know all these abbreviations and lingo. Best, Luanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 --- > >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. (snip) > Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >at the government level. --------------------------- The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involve meetings (it advocates _self_-help), it can't be used as a tool to control people. When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a list of " acceptable alternatives " i.e. forced meetings which were " acceptable " to the EAP goons. There were actually only two choices: SMART and Women for Sobriety. At the top of the paper was a note saying " NOTE: We do NOT allow Rational Recovery. " I had already told the EAP counselor that I was using AVRT, by the way. There is no doubt that RR and AVRT were forbidden because they don't involve meetings, and people can't get attendance slips signed. ~Rita p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my understanding is that they are more of an instructional thing than an ongoing series of meetings where people work on " issues " . Anyway, out this way AVRT is learned from books. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 --- > >If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >because they would be the ones positioned to do so. (snip) > Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >at the government level. --------------------------- The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involve meetings (it advocates _self_-help), it can't be used as a tool to control people. When I won the right through my legal action not to attend 12-step meetings, I was given a list of " acceptable alternatives " i.e. forced meetings which were " acceptable " to the EAP goons. There were actually only two choices: SMART and Women for Sobriety. At the top of the paper was a note saying " NOTE: We do NOT allow Rational Recovery. " I had already told the EAP counselor that I was using AVRT, by the way. There is no doubt that RR and AVRT were forbidden because they don't involve meetings, and people can't get attendance slips signed. ~Rita p.s. I have heard people speak of " RR meetings " -- must happen on the West Coast only, and my understanding is that they are more of an instructional thing than an ongoing series of meetings where people work on " issues " . Anyway, out this way AVRT is learned from books. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 Good one, ! I didn't make it to work Friday-don't have internet at the new house yet, So I do my corresponding here. Can't wait to have it at home! That was a good one! I'm glad you and Rose liked the joke-! > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: 1 size >Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:40:57 -0600 > >Hi ; > >I got this one pulled on me in the hotel bar where I worked. > >Bob " That condom I used last night was so old I could barely read >the serial number. " > > " Bob, I've never seen a serial number on one. " > >Bob " That's cause you never had it unrolled far enough. " > > >This guy got me everytime for maybe the better part of a year. He >never seemed to run out of them. > >Rose and I both liked the Chicken and egg, Rose about rolled out >of bed laughing when I told her. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req. >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99 >at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 Re: 1 size > > >> >>If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >>will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >>the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >>because they would be the ones positioned to do so. > (snip) >> > Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >>at the government level. > >--------------------------- > > The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involve meetings (it advocates _self_-help), it can't be used as a tool to control people. [snip] I suspect that there's another important reason. For mainstream America, alcohol is a Devil -- a symbolic container for collective anxiety and guilt. Like all Devils, it needs to be supported by proper exorcism rituals. RR breaks the rules because it not only fails to provide exorcism rituals (meetings, confessions, etc.) but also denies that the Devil has any real power. Blasphemy! -- wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 Re: 1 size > > >> >>If AA gets the boot, one of the others will dominate, the thinking >>will still be all or nothing, just a change of name. Probably it will be >>the left over AA folks in government that would do the choosing, >>because they would be the ones positioned to do so. > (snip) >> > Trimpey might force AA out, but RR won't replace AA >>at the government level. > >--------------------------- > > The main reason for this (and I know you're not an RR fan) is that because RR doesn't involve meetings (it advocates _self_-help), it can't be used as a tool to control people. [snip] I suspect that there's another important reason. For mainstream America, alcohol is a Devil -- a symbolic container for collective anxiety and guilt. Like all Devils, it needs to be supported by proper exorcism rituals. RR breaks the rules because it not only fails to provide exorcism rituals (meetings, confessions, etc.) but also denies that the Devil has any real power. Blasphemy! -- wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 1999 Report Share Posted July 26, 1999 --- >In a message dated 7/25/99 6:50:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >railroadrita@... writes: > ><< I had already told the EAP counselor that I was using AVRT, by the way. >> > > >2 Questions: > >1. What is an EAP counselor? >2. What is AVRT? > >Some of us here don't know all these abbreviations and lingo. > ---------------------- Sorry... " EAP " stands for " Employee Assistance Program " . They were originally conceived as counseling programs jointly sponsored by management and labor unions in large companies, which employees could voluntarily attend if they were having problems (drugs/marital/emotional) that were affecting their job performance, and the counseling provided would be confidential and would help them return to peak performance. Some EAP's are better than others, and some are downright horrific and betray the entire concept and indeed betray the most basic tenets of any counseling profession. The EAP in my company (a state transportation agency) is probably one of the worst anywhere. It is an offshoot of the company's Department of Discipline (YES! We actually have such a department, whose sole function is to mete out punishments for the slightest infraction of the hundreds of rules!) and the counselors' loyalty is to management, not to the employees they are supposed to be " helping " . About 8 years ago, a memo was sent out to the effect that the EAP will no longer address marital or off-the-job problems, nor accept any volunteers. Henceforth, we were told, employees will be referred to the EAP only if they have a " positive " reading on a randomly-given drug/alcohol test, and at that point they MUST enroll in the " EAP Program " and do EVERYTHING they are told, or else face whatever " discipline " the EAP recommends, including dismissal. Sounds really therapeutic, doesn't it. This is why, when my Dr. wrote a letter to the EAP clinical manager stating that I showed no signs of alcohol dependence and was being privately treated for depression, the letter was summarily dismissed, and none of the EAP counselors ever even tried to consult with him. Instead, they reveled in the power accorded them and continued to tell me that if I didn't " admit " that I had an " incurable disease " , I would be considered " non-compliant " with their " treatment " and would not be allowed back to work. I later found out this was BS; the EAP program is 9 months long and everyone who does not have a second " positive " is allowed back to work within that time. The threats and coercion are just the personal S & M trip of the EAP goons. I was allowed back after " only " 7 months, despite fighting them tooth and nail; probably my federal lawsuit helped a bit. " AVRT " is the personal self-control method advocated by Rational Recovery. I do not buy into all of RR's or Trimpey's ideas, but have utilized elements of AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) as well as many of Audrey Kishline's ideas expressed in " Moderation Management " to successfully engage in responsible drinking behavior. Of course, I never did tell the EAP goons that I was drinking moderately; they'd have called it a " relapse " . I led them to believe I was abstaining completely, which didn't impress them anyway, since they continued to call me an " addict " . However, I certainly have made an unshakable commitment to abstinence before and during working hours, and no amount of their attempted brainwashing can make me doubt myself or believe that I will ever again have a " positive " d/a reading on the job, or at any other inappropriate time. Should I ever have any thought of drinking at an inappropriate time, I use AVRT to say something such as " IT wants a drink now, but I know it wouldn't be appropriate, so I will ignore " it " . " This works for me, and I know it has worked for others, some of whom had really serious drinking problems and need to abstain totally. If some other method works for you, that's great too. People on this list have used many different methods, and bits of many methods, and we enjoy hearing each others' experiences. ~Rita --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 1999 Report Share Posted July 26, 1999 Hi Rita, All RR groups became SMART after a certain point. There are breif 3-4 week AVRT training sessions, given for free or fee, depending on who provides them. Some RR groups never bothered chaning their name to SMART to add to the confusion. RR now is completely opposed to the group method, saying that it causes a disorder called RGD. P.S. I think that at least some of Trimpey's rantings are meant to be taken with a good sense of humor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 1999 Report Share Posted July 26, 1999 Hi Rita, All RR groups became SMART after a certain point. There are breif 3-4 week AVRT training sessions, given for free or fee, depending on who provides them. Some RR groups never bothered chaning their name to SMART to add to the confusion. RR now is completely opposed to the group method, saying that it causes a disorder called RGD. P.S. I think that at least some of Trimpey's rantings are meant to be taken with a good sense of humor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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