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Monkeys?

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5433

> Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys?

>

> P.

>

> On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S

> wrote:

>

> > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say

is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree

with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you

have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually

agree with you.

>

>

> Pete Watts

>

> Owner

> PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm

> PD Personality Disorders Discussion

>

>

>

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Hi Kayleigh;

I think it was me that mentioned the monkeys. I said AA never

paid any attention to the inferred fourth Monkey, as in, See no evil,

Hear no evil, Speak no evil and the inferred fourth one Do no evil.

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DIdnt you say you were involved in those " wire/fuzzy

mother " experiments with monkeys?

Ty, btw, for your support for my 'debating style'. It's

come in for a fair bit of stick recently, not least on my

own list. Apparently, it is unreasonable of me to

challenge endorsements of XA, even on my own list.

Pete

On Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:58:51 -0700 kayleighs@...

wrote:

> Monkeys?

>

> wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5433

> > Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys?

> >

> > P.

> >

> > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say

> is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree

> with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you

> have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually

> agree with you.

> >

> >

> > Pete Watts

> >

> > Owner

> > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm

> > PD Personality Disorders Discussion

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning

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> http://clickhere./click/449

>

>

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

Pete Watts

Owner

PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm

PD Personality Disorders Discussion

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" Involved with " is too strong, but yes, I worked in Harry Harlow's lab

right after the initial surrogate mother experiments as the lowliest of

gofers.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5557

> DIdnt you say you were involved in those " wire/fuzzy

> mother " experiments with monkeys?

>

> Ty, btw, for your support for my 'debating style'. It's

> come in for a fair bit of stick recently, not least on my

> own list. Apparently, it is unreasonable of me to

> challenge endorsements of XA, even on my own list.

>

> Pete

>

> On Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:58:51 -0700 kayleighs@...

> wrote:

>

> > Monkeys?

> >

> > wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5

433

> > > Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys?

> > >

> > > P.

> > >

> > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can

say

> > is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have

disagree

> > with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you

> > have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually

> > agree with you.

> > >

> > >

> > > Pete Watts

> > >

> > > Owner

> > > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm

> > > PD Personality Disorders Discussion

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

> > Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning

> > FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.

> > http://clickhere./click/449

> >

> >

> >

> > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> > - Simplifying group communications

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Pete Watts

>

> Owner

> PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm

> PD Personality Disorders Discussion

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hi, Pete.

" DIdnt you say you were involved in those " wire/fuzzy

mother " experiments with monkeys? "

What the hell are/were those?

" Ty, btw, for your support for my 'debating style'. It's

come in for a fair bit of stick recently, not least on my

own list. Apparently, it is unreasonable of me to

challenge endorsements of XA, even on my own list. "

Don't know what this is about, but I have generally appreciated Pete's

bluntness, whether I agreed with him or not.

Noel

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>From: Pupship@...

>

> " Didn't you say you were involved in those " wire/fuzzy

> mother " experiments with monkeys? "

>

>What the hell are/were those?

Kayleigh knows most abt these. They were experiments that showed that infant

monkeys preferred to spend time hugging dummy mothers made of cloth than a

wire one that fed them milk from a bottle. This contradicted predictions of

the predominant behaviorist theories that infant bonding was driven by the

satisfaction of biological hunger needs. Nowadays Psych undergrads are

liable to say " But that's obvious " . It was far from obvious to

psychologists of the time (over 30 yr ago) and also, is not necessarily

obvious now; it SEEMS obvious that infants like something warm and cuddly to

cling on to, but no matter how natural it might seem to us, " naturalness " is

not an explanation for the phenomenon.

>

> " Ty, btw, for your support for my 'debating style'. It's

> come in for a fair bit of stick recently, not least on my

> own list. Apparently, it is unreasonable of me to

> challenge endorsements of XA, even on my own list. "

>

>Don't know what this is about, but I have generally appreciated Pete's

>bluntness, whether I agreed with him or not.

Thankyou, especially as I Didn't at first agree on your sex!

Fwiw, I think the dispute on my list had a gender psychology element to it

(the XA supporter was a woman). When women try to disagree amicably, they

often say something like " we're probably both a bit right and wrong " which i

what this person said. However, when men disagree, they don't feel the need

to make a compromise, and just agree to disagree. Assuming they don%27t kill

each other first.

Pete

______________________________________________________

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  • 2 months later...

At 09:03 PM 6/27/99 -0400, Rio wrote:

>Hi ,

>

>I know you were being facetious (sp?) but do you think AA is trying to get

>people to Jesus and Christianity? I don't think so. I think they are

>developing their own religion; kind of New Agey, in a sense.

>All lighter

>than air with the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as the final authority,

>THE Higher Power of the Universe. When I decided to study the Bible in

>depth and brought it up at meetings, the looks and coldness I felt in the

>rooms was basically that I was doing something taboo. Someone inevitably

>would state that what I was doing was " cute " but in their opinion, the Big

>Book is divinely inspired and replaces the Bible. I knew some people who

>went to church regularly and were AA members, yet they rarely mentioned it

>because they had to submit to the AA line that nothing else in the world

>really will save a person except AA.

>

>

>Jan

I did know a few fundamentalist/evangelical type Christians in AA and

Al-Anon. They saw Christianity as a natural place to go for someone with

a year or more in AA, to achieve more 'spiritual growth' than could be

achieved by 'working The Program' alone. They often talked about their

church and religion at after-meeting get-togethers at Waffle Houses and

such. When sharing at meetings they would invariable mention their 'Lord'

or something to indicated they didn't have just any ond higher power,

and when telling their story they of course name their hp.

On the other side are the (ahem) devout AA's who are 'not religious',

and often give the glares you mention above.

There are a few I heard talking about when they came to AA they were

involved with the church, and while they may still attend, they said they

had to study the AA literature, and they had to put that other 'literature'

'on the shelf' for a while.

I have indeed heard a few times in meetings someone say " The Big Book

is the ONLY writing, that I believe, is the inspired word of God. " In my

first couple of years in AA I was quite close to believing that myself.

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

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