Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi , Glad you let it out and we really do understand. Unless you spend all your free time and various and sundry meetings around the area, you will never be getting enough meetings, to them. I'd drive myself bonkers trying to balance meetings and things that I had to get done. I was a stay at home mom, but also did the books, paperwork, payroll, tax work for my husband's business and answer the phone for it and run the errands - it was almost a full-time job. By the end of the day I was tired. People would say - go to a meeting during the day. The only one I could go to would take 2 hours out of the day at the least. It made me resentful of them. I got so tired of having to explain why I hadn't been to a certain meeting lately. Finally, when someone would say " I haven't seen you at any meetings lately " I'd say " Well, I haven't seen you at any either " After a while I got tired of hearing about how AA members were somehow different and special and a cut above everyone else on earth because they had this Program especially when I could see the hypocritical actions of some of the members. And so when they'd excuse themselves for hurtful actions by saying it didn't matter because they hadn't had a drink that day, my inner thoughts started saying " horse shit to you jerk " Also, being married to an AAer who people oohed and ahhed at when he spoke at meetings and then would come home and belittle and insult me and treat me like he hated my guts, made me dislike the organization more and more. I happened to browse the Web of Addictions site and was led to this email list. Until I did I felt so alone because it seemed like I didn't have anyone to talk to about my doubts about AA. If I deviated from the slogans and thought for myself, I was somewhat reprimanded by being shunned. I thought I was the only one who saw " the emperor's new clothes " for what they really were. As time has gone on, I've had my thoughts confirmed by what others have said on this list and also, (and I hope you find this true too, ) I've run into people who have stopped going to AA meetings and express the same feelings about the program I do. Good luck and try not to beat yourself up too much about not wanting the program. Jan Re: hello.. > >Ok .... > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >going now, which is seldom. > >I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > >>Hi ; >> >>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >> >>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >> >>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >>customer last week. >> >>Old habits die hard. >> >>Glad you're with us >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hi , Glad you let it out and we really do understand. Unless you spend all your free time and various and sundry meetings around the area, you will never be getting enough meetings, to them. I'd drive myself bonkers trying to balance meetings and things that I had to get done. I was a stay at home mom, but also did the books, paperwork, payroll, tax work for my husband's business and answer the phone for it and run the errands - it was almost a full-time job. By the end of the day I was tired. People would say - go to a meeting during the day. The only one I could go to would take 2 hours out of the day at the least. It made me resentful of them. I got so tired of having to explain why I hadn't been to a certain meeting lately. Finally, when someone would say " I haven't seen you at any meetings lately " I'd say " Well, I haven't seen you at any either " After a while I got tired of hearing about how AA members were somehow different and special and a cut above everyone else on earth because they had this Program especially when I could see the hypocritical actions of some of the members. And so when they'd excuse themselves for hurtful actions by saying it didn't matter because they hadn't had a drink that day, my inner thoughts started saying " horse shit to you jerk " Also, being married to an AAer who people oohed and ahhed at when he spoke at meetings and then would come home and belittle and insult me and treat me like he hated my guts, made me dislike the organization more and more. I happened to browse the Web of Addictions site and was led to this email list. Until I did I felt so alone because it seemed like I didn't have anyone to talk to about my doubts about AA. If I deviated from the slogans and thought for myself, I was somewhat reprimanded by being shunned. I thought I was the only one who saw " the emperor's new clothes " for what they really were. As time has gone on, I've had my thoughts confirmed by what others have said on this list and also, (and I hope you find this true too, ) I've run into people who have stopped going to AA meetings and express the same feelings about the program I do. Good luck and try not to beat yourself up too much about not wanting the program. Jan Re: hello.. > >Ok .... > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >going now, which is seldom. > >I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > >>Hi ; >> >>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >> >>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >> >>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >>customer last week. >> >>Old habits die hard. >> >>Glad you're with us >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Hey Joe, if I send my picture in, I'm gonna pose with a bottle of Jack s! Jan Re: hello.. >At 11:13 PM 6/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Hey Joe, >> >>Well I bet you do a better pic than the photo-booth one I >>have at present! >> >>P. > >Indeed. And you can elect to have partial visual anonymity if you like and >be looking over the top of a book or whatever. We can be creative. I have a >Big Book you might like to pose with. Or maybe something else would appeal... > >Joe Berenbaum >mailto:joe-b@... > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Just Tell Us What You Want... >Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >http://clickhere./click/390 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 What's even funnier is that Pete was not put on moderated status for dissing AA, but for just being Pete... Cricket Pete Watts said: > Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on > 'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! > > P. > > On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > wrote: > > > Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) > > --- > > Kayleigh > > > > Zz > > zZ > > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > > > > > > >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He > > >is our Higher Power! > > > > > >Jan > > > > > >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) > > > > > > hello.. > > > > > > > > >>Hello, > > >> > > >>I am new here... > > >> > > >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! > > >>http://clickhere./click/381 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > >> - Simplifying group communications > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > Owner > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Still waiting for the actual reason theresa. Pete On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:53:10 -0700 Cricket@... wrote: > What's even funnier is that Pete was not put on moderated status for dissing AA, but for just being Pete... > > Cricket > > Pete Watts said: > > Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on > > 'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! > > > > P. > > > > On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > > wrote: > > > > > Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) > > > --- > > > Kayleigh > > > > > > Zz > > > zZ > > > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > > > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > > > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > > > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He > > > >is our Higher Power! > > > > > > > >Jan > > > > > > > >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) > > > > > > > > hello.. > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hello, > > > >> > > > >>I am new here... > > > >> > > > >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! > > > >>http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > >> - Simplifying group communications > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > > > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > > > Owner > > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > .com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 you haven't checked your mail? Pete Watts wrote: > Still waiting for the actual reason theresa. > > Pete > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:53:10 -0700 Cricket@... > wrote: > > > What's even funnier is that Pete was not put on moderated status for dissing AA, but for just being Pete... > > > > Cricket > > > > Pete Watts said: > > > Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on > > > 'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! > > > > > > P. > > > > > > On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) > > > > --- > > > > Kayleigh > > > > > > > > Zz > > > > zZ > > > > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > > > > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > > > > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > > > > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He > > > > >is our Higher Power! > > > > > > > > > >Jan > > > > > > > > > >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) > > > > > > > > > > hello.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hello, > > > > >> > > > > >>I am new here... > > > > >> > > > > >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > > >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! > > > > >>http://clickhere./click/381 > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > >> - Simplifying group communications > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > > > > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > > > > > Owner > > > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > > > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > > Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > > .com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > Owner > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Just Tell Us What You Want... > Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! > http://clickhere./click/390 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Nothing since my last reply to you. Now, of course as a listowner, you know we shouldnt be having this convo on another list.... On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:04:02 -0500 Cricket's Courage - NPD Education & Healing wrote: > you haven't checked your mail? > > Pete Watts wrote: > > > Still waiting for the actual reason theresa. > > > > Pete > > > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:53:10 -0700 Cricket@... > > wrote: > > > > > What's even funnier is that Pete was not put on moderated status for dissing AA, but for just being Pete... > > > > > > Cricket > > > > > > Pete Watts said: > > > > Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on > > > > 'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! > > > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) > > > > > --- > > > > > Kayleigh > > > > > > > > > > Zz > > > > > zZ > > > > > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > > > > > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > > > > > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > > > > > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He > > > > > >is our Higher Power! > > > > > > > > > > > >Jan > > > > > > > > > > > >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) > > > > > > > > > > > > hello.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hello, > > > > > >> > > > > > >>I am new here... > > > > > >> > > > > > >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > > > >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! > > > > > >>http://clickhere./click/381 > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > > >> - Simplifying group communications > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > > > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > > > > > Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets > > > > > anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > > > > > > > Owner > > > > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > > > > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > > > Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > > > .com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > > > > > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Watts > > > > Owner > > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Just Tell Us What You Want... > > Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! > > http://clickhere./click/390 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > .com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 , I know it must be hard to leave people you thought of as friends. But remember what they told you in AA when you said you missed your drinking buddies? They told you that if your friends urged you drink, they weren't your friends. Same thing -- if your AA friends are urging you to ignore your responsibility to your child or children, they are not your friends. (And -- just a footnote here -- if they're putting you in a position you don't want, they're not your friends.) I used to get so angry when I would hear people in meetings talk about they hadn't eaten because they had to hit the meeting, or they couldn't sleep because of the demands of their job and meetings (there are lots of people who have hours that just don't go along with attending meetings as often as other AAs would like), and how people would applaud them for putting the meetings first. Had they forgotten " Hungry, angry, lonely, tired " ? I never understood, if one or the other has to be sacrificed, how attending meetings is taking better care of yourself than sleeping and eating. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > >Ok .... > >Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >going now, which is seldom. > >I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > >Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > >My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > >I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > > > > >>Hi ; >> >>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >> >>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >> >>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >>customer last week. >> >>Old habits die hard. >> >>Glad you're with us >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 You know, , I never said much in AA meetings, partly because everything I said in treatment was torn to shreds and misinterpreted, and partly because I'm just a private person, who never shares much of her private life with anyone she doesn't know very well. (An introvert, if you will.) I was criticized once in an AA meeting for not " sharing, " but several people from the meeting approached me afterwards and said not to worry, the guy who said it was an asshole and if I didn't want to say anything, don't. And from then on I virtually always passed. For years. Nobody seemed to resent it, nobody pushed me to lead. I wouldn't even accept chips, and no one objected. On the other hand, I am a very fluent public speaker, both to large groups and small ones. And I bet you could learn to be as well, as long as you didn't have to talk about things that no one should have to disclose if they don't want to. (I am not a politician, by the way, and never will be, because nowadays the rules of the game are apparently that you must disclose everything.) I don't test as an introvert, actually, but I used to. I used to be very high on the introversion scale. I practiced to get over it, and actually it was a lot of fun. But I'm not trying to say that you should learn to be a public speaker. I'm just trying to say that no one should ever be made to feel guilty for refusing to talk about things that only your spouse or best friend has a right to ask about. Good therapists don't insist on it. And in an awkward way, I'm also trying to say that because you couldn't speak in front of an AA group, you shouldn't assume that you can't speak in front of any group at all. Like Carol says, there is a big world out there. Go out and explore it! (Take the kids with you.) --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Apple, > >When I do go, they act like I am not " ok " ....that I have headed toward a >relapse, that I have lost my spirituality, that I am not " good enough " >anymore. >The few that bothered calling when I first started NOT showing up, would ask >me if I had relapsed....and when I said, no, they warned me off all the >dangers of not attending, and that I was fooling myself, and I had to >remember that " my own best thinking got me into AA " . > >The " Are you OK? " when I do go is so sanctimonious that it's artificialness >reeks to high heaven. It is as if, they are doing so " well " compared to > " me " .... > >sigh....I will still attend at times, but part of my healing is taking care >of myself. And if we disagree on what " I " think I need for my healing, so be >it. I am an introvert by nature, it takes alot to get me to open up. If I >had not known Pete from another list, I would still not be talking. > >One of the things that horrified me was, after I received my one-year chip, >I was SO pressured to get up in front of the group and tell " my story " . I >flat could NOT do this. This was the horror of horrors for me, I have >avoidant personality disorder and am also borderline. Me, getting up in >front of a room full of people is NOT part of my eternal make-up. They >refused to believe this in me. One night at birthday night, there were >several minutes left in the meeting. One of the men who was so adamant that >I do " my story " called me to the podium and told me to talk about what AA >had done for me. I made such as ass out of myself, out of TOTAL terror, that >the whole room was uncomfortable and embarrassed for me. > >It was a nightmare.... it was very aparent after that, that I could not do >public speaking...but what is sad here, was *I* knew that and had tried to >explain this before. No one would take my feelings or thoughts on the matter >into hand, until after I had embarrassed myself so much, that others were >embarrassed also. That is quite an experience to remember:( > >I usually sat back against the walls, not at the table with others. That in >itself should have told them that I have great difficulty in crowds...but >again, my feelings and my personality was over-ruled by the gods of AA who >thought they knew what was best for me, better than I knew. > >I feel quilty, like I am bashing AA and my friends?? I have some very good >memories from there, and did learn alot about myself...it did teach me how >to look inside and see what was there...for having a personality disorder, >it was hard to see there, in fact, I had never looked there:) > >I hope this hasn't been to open....but I didn't know how else to get out >where I was coming from without mentioning the disorders... > > > > > > >, I feel so sad reading your story. I think I know how you feel. I too >lost virtually my entire social network and many people from AA won't talk >to me anymore. It takes time to rebuild, but it's better to lose them, and >rebuild from scratch than to buy into a fraud for the sake of having a >support system. This group was very valuable to me. The longer I stay away, >the more I can see that I made the right decision. don't give up! >Apple >> >> Ok .... >> >> Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... >> >> I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >> remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >> *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >> ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >> going now, which is seldom. >> >> I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >> are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >> being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >> received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >> exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. >> >> Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >> nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >> and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >> for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >> relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >> spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >> erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >> can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. >> >> My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >> last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >> treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... >> >> I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >> me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >> believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Listen to Britany spears and more top artisits >now at audiohighway.com! >http://clickhere./click/395 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually agree with you. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Funny you should say that Kayleigh, now that I am put on >'moderated' on the list where I met for dissing AA! > >P. > >On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > wrote: > >> Now Pete can be kind of intimidating at times.... :-) >> --- >> Kayleigh >> >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> >> >> >> >> >(Twilight Zone Music) Don't worry , Pete is here, he is among us. He >> >is our Higher Power! >> > >> >Jan >> > >> >(Hope Pete and know I'm trying to be funny) >> > >> > hello.. >> > >> > >> >>Hello, >> >> >> >>I am new here... >> >> >> >>(looking for Pete so I won't feel as lost) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >> >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! >> >>http://clickhere./click/381 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> > - Simplifying group communications >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >> Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >> anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 >> >> >> >> >> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > >Pete Watts > >Owner >PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm >PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 I never did make any friends in meetings. They were all too full of themselves. I've told this story before, but I don't remember where, so I'll repeat it: Once my house was broken into, and at 5:30 PM (after I'd searched the house) I called the person I considered my best friend, intending to ask if I could spend the night. She was terribly freaked out about something else, and didn't respond to me. She called back at 10 PM to report that she was much calmed down, and how was I? I repeated that my house had been broken into. She was aghast, wanted me to come spend the night! I said no, it was too late. Told her I had given her the news earlier, and she admitted she hadn't even been listening. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >, check my previous posts in conversation with if you haven't done so already. > >I went through a lot of what you are going through. I found those people were not my friends and had no clue as to what was best for me. > >Remember how they would say you had to change your whole life? I had to do it when I left after 15 years of being very much involved. > >The guilt over leaving has been the hardest for me. I thought I had SO MANY friends. How wrong I was. It was like being one the Titanic-we shared the same experience, but that was it. I was every man for himself in the end, with some betrayal thrown in for good measure. > >I know I can do better on my own than with that bunch-and I'm banking that you'll do fine as well! > >You will love not having to waste hours every week at meetings-there are so many other things to do that are more constructive (or not )and fun!! > > >Good luck-we're here if you need us! > >Love, > > wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5004 >> >> Ok .... >> >> Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... >> >> I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >> remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >> *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks >> ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >> going now, which is seldom. >> >> I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >> are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >> being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have >> received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >> exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. >> >> Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >> nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, >> and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >> for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >> relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >> spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >> erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >> can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. >> >> My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the >> last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >> treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... >> >> I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt >> me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >> believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... >> >> >> >> >> >Hi ; >> > >> >Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >> >coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >> > >> >My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >> >with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >> >bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >> >even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >> > >> >Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >> >in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >> >customer last week. >> > >> >Old habits die hard. >> > >> >Glad you're with us >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >> >Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >> >.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >> > >> > >> >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> > - Simplifying group communications >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >Try something new and discover more ways to save! >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Kayliegh, In a recent psychological test I took, it revealed that I was very introverted, BUT, I had the capacity to be extremelly open and giving in my " inner circle " ....meaning, I am quite picky about who I share my guts with, but if I like you enough to allow you in my inner circle, you will know anything about me that you want to know. And that is exactly why, at one meeting I could pour my guts out, at another I would sit against the wall. It depended on WHO was in the room.... And when I am criticized for not sharing, it only makes me share less, because I can be very rebellious:).....quiet, introspective, lady like, and rebellious to the freaking core:)... You know, , I never said much in AA meetings, partly because everything I said in treatment was torn to shreds and misinterpreted, and partly because I'm just a private person, who never shares much of her private life with anyone she doesn't know very well. (An introvert, if you will.) I was criticized once in an AA meeting for not " sharing, " but several people from the meeting approached me afterwards and said not to worry, the guy who said it was an asshole and if I didn't want to say anything, don't. And from then on I virtually always passed. For years. Nobody seemed to resent it, nobody pushed me to lead. I wouldn't even accept chips, and no one objected. On the other hand, I am a very fluent public speaker, both to large groups and small ones. And I bet you could learn to be as well, as long as you didn't have to talk about things that no one should have to disclose if they don't want to. (I am not a politician, by the way, and never will be, because nowadays the rules of the game are apparently that you must disclose everything.) I don't test as an introvert, actually, but I used to. I used to be very high on the introversion scale. I practiced to get over it, and actually it was a lot of fun. But I'm not trying to say that you should learn to be a public speaker. I'm just trying to say that no one should ever be made to feel guilty for refusing to talk about things that only your spouse or best friend has a right to ask about. Good therapists don't insist on it. And in an awkward way, I'm also trying to say that because you couldn't speak in front of an AA group, you shouldn't assume that you can't speak in front of any group at all. Like Carol says, there is a big world out there. Go out and explore it! (Take the kids with you.) --- Kayleigh eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 My understanding is that if you are introverted, you derive your energy from within instead of from other people. And I think that's pretty admirable. I've been told that people who do well in AA are invariably extroverts, so they derive their energy from the other people in the room. There's nothing wrong with that, there's only something wrong with assuming there's something wrong with people who don't operate that way (hope you followed that). I should clarify that while I used to score high on introversion, I now score exactly equal on both introversion and extroversion. This is counted as being extroverted, for some reason, but for me it is simply a nice balance. wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5081 > > Kayliegh, > > In a recent psychological test I took, it revealed that I was very > introverted, BUT, I had the capacity to be extremelly open and giving in my > " inner circle " ....meaning, I am quite picky about who I share my guts with, > but if I like you enough to allow you in my inner circle, you will know > anything about me that you want to know. And that is exactly why, at one > meeting I could pour my guts out, at another I would sit against the wall. > It depended on WHO was in the room.... > > And when I am criticized for not sharing, it only makes me share less, > because I can be very rebellious:).....quiet, introspective, lady like, and > rebellious to the freaking core:)... > > > > > > You know, , I never said much in AA meetings, partly because everything > I said in treatment was torn to shreds and misinterpreted, and partly > because I'm just a private person, who never shares much of her private life > with anyone she doesn't know very well. (An introvert, if you will.) I was > criticized once in an AA meeting for not " sharing, " but several people from > the meeting approached me afterwards and said not to worry, the guy who said > it was an asshole and if I didn't want to say anything, don't. And from > then on I virtually always passed. For years. Nobody seemed to resent it, > nobody pushed me to lead. I wouldn't even accept chips, and no one > objected. > > On the other hand, I am a very fluent public speaker, both to large groups > and small ones. And I bet you could learn to be as well, as long as you > didn't have to talk about things that no one should have to disclose if they > don't want to. (I am not a politician, by the way, and never will be, > because nowadays the rules of the game are apparently that you must disclose > everything.) > > I don't test as an introvert, actually, but I used to. I used to be very > high on the introversion scale. I practiced to get over it, and actually it > was a lot of fun. > > But I'm not trying to say that you should learn to be a public speaker. I'm > just trying to say that no one should ever be made to feel guilty for > refusing to talk about things that only your spouse or best friend has a > right to ask about. Good therapists don't insist on it. And in an awkward > way, I'm also trying to say that because you couldn't speak in front of an > AA group, you shouldn't assume that you can't speak in front of any group at > all. > > Like Carol says, there is a big world out there. Go out and explore it! > (Take the kids with you.) > --- > Kayleigh > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys? P. On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually agree with you. Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys? P. On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually agree with you. Pete Watts Owner PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm PD Personality Disorders Discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 11:00 PM 6/29/99 -0500, you wrote: Kayliegh, In a recent psychological test I took, it revealed that I was very introverted, BUT, I had the capacity to be extremelly open and giving in my " inner circle " ....meaning, I am quite picky about who I share my guts with, but if I like you enough to allow you in my inner circle, you will know anything about me that you want to know. And that is exactly why, at one meeting I could pour my guts out, at another I would sit against the wall. It depended on WHO was in the room.... And when I am criticized for not sharing, it only makes me share less, because I can be very rebellious:).....quiet, introspective, lady like, and rebellious to the freaking core:)... This just reminds me all over again about what is wrong with pushing people to " share " when their inclination is not to. I think we have a built-in sense of when it is appropriate for us to disclose things, to open up, and that sense is there for a reason. It is to keep us safe, to keep us from being abused, taken advantage of, etc. Many people in 12 step programs are used to overriding their natural sense of things and replace it with program generalisations. In the name of " sobriety " I forced myself to talk in meetings a lot when really I think it wasn't necessary or even a good idea. As I got more ill towards the end of my er, membership, I started getting panic attacks, which were more than likely my inner guidance system telling me to STOP! I couldn't do it now. But then I wouldn't do it now anyway, so that works quite well I think. I wouldn't do it now beause I do not think an AA or NA meeting is a safe environment to open up in. It never was. I used to be aware of this but overrrode it with the idea that it was " necessary for my recovery " to do this. Now I know what is and is not " necessary for my recovery " , and it includes behaving in a responsible and thoughtfdul manner that does not clash with my sense of what is safe and appropriate for me. Joe Berenbaum mailto:joe-b@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Kayleigh: That would be enough for me to leave, too. I have had the same type of experience of someone not listening. My ex-husband beat me in 1996 and I called my sponsor after I moved out. She told me I should go back and try to work things out. My ex had abused drugs for most of our marriage and had been " sober " for about 2 years at the time. I was suicidal at the time,(and everybody knew that)thinking that it was somehow my fault, because he was " okay " and still going to meetings and we never talked about the beating. I gave him a month to get help, and only became more and more depressed. (he was waiting for ME to get help!) My sponsor knew all this, I'm sure. The last few meetings I went to, I paid a lot of attention to people. I listened and watched carefully. Everyone was absorbed in themselves. At the time it was a horrific realization; that after 15 years of thinking these people would always " be there " for me and they were my " friends " -nobody was even listening-for politeness or entertainment or any reason, for that matter!!! There's still some pain when I think of it. But I know I am better off now! And so are you. When people used to tell me they were " working " on themselves, I actually accepted that as a valid reason. Now I know it was bullshit. I have found that the best way to work on myself is dealing WITH people! You don't just stop LIFE and deal with an individual problem-what a cop-out! Another twisting...! AA was quite the learning experience for me! wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5079 > I never did make any friends in meetings. They were all too full of themselves. I've told this story before, but I don't remember where, so I'll repeat it: > > Once my house was broken into, and at 5:30 PM (after I'd searched the house) I called the person I considered my best friend, intending to ask if I could spend the night. She was terribly freaked out about something else, and didn't respond to me. > > She called back at 10 PM to report that she was much calmed down, and how was I? I repeated that my house had been broken into. She was aghast, wanted me to come spend the night! I said no, it was too late. Told her I had given her the news earlier, and she admitted she hadn't even been listening. > > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >, check my previous posts in conversation with if you haven't done so already. > > > >I went through a lot of what you are going through. I found those people were not my friends and had no clue as to what was best for me. > > > >Remember how they would say you had to change your whole life? I had to do it when I left after 15 years of being very much involved. > > > >The guilt over leaving has been the hardest for me. I thought I had SO MANY friends. How wrong I was. It was like being one the Titanic-we shared the same experience, but that was it. I was every man for himself in the end, with some betrayal thrown in for good measure. > > > >I know I can do better on my own than with that bunch-and I'm banking that you'll do fine as well! > > > >You will love not having to waste hours every week at meetings-there are so many other things to do that are more constructive (or not )and fun!! > > > > > >Good luck-we're here if you need us! > > > >Love, > > > > wrote: > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5004 > >> > >> Ok .... > >> > >> Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... > >> > >> I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to > >> remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months > >> *today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 weeks > >> ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother > >> going now, which is seldom. > >> > >> I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there > >> are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things > >> being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I have > >> received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to > >> exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. > >> > >> Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been > >> nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single mother, > >> and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time > >> for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a > >> relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not > >> spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and > >> erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you > >> can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. > >> > >> My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for the > >> last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am > >> treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... > >> > >> I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has hurt > >> me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do > >> believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Hi ; > >> > > >> >Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of > >> >coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. > >> > > >> >My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do > >> >with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my > >> >bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't > >> >even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. > >> > > >> >Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting > >> >in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a > >> >customer last week. > >> > > >> >Old habits die hard. > >> > > >> >Glad you're with us > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members > >> >Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon > >> >.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 > >> > > >> > > >> >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > >> > - Simplifying group communications > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! > >Try something new and discover more ways to save! > >http://clickhere./click/381 > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Hi Pete; Sorry, I took to much for granted. I was kidding and thought when I asked if you got in a " Mini Flame War " you'd know I was kidding. From what I've learned of you I couldn't by any stretch of the imagination see you flaming someone anymore than I could. Calling folks names etc is childish and unproductive in the extreme. Sorry again ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 Hi ; I did something similar to what you did only I did it at home. I had a near perfect memory prior to being on the heart/lung machine. I sat alone one night and reviewed what everyone at the meeting had said and compared it to what I knew of their real life. Folks were saying they were better, but I saw no change for the better over the few years I had known them. My sponsor at the time had about the same amount of sober time I do now and he spent a good 75 dollars a week on scratch lottery tickets. He made about 300 a week at the time. He was single and could do as he pleased, but to me it seemed excessive. He'd only had one girlfriend in his life and she had left 10 years previously. If Rose or I would try to get him to meet someone we knew, he always declined indirectly. He isn't gay, just bashful. He's been drunk for the last 6 years or so. His one lost love called him and wanted him to come down to where she was working and see her. He got drunk before he went. Where was the help of AA? She's a C & W singer and was working in Branson Mo. My conclusion that night is AA only works for folks who can trade booze for something else and stay sick but abstain from alcohol. I had a stress illness, PTSD. But I wasn't crazy as AA would have me believe and going to AA made me worse not better. Of the people I knew in AA, especially the men, I wouldn't trade my drunk life for their sober one, except for the money angle. In my heart of hearts I couldn't really respect them and thought they were fakes. Whenever I'd even hint at it I'd get a lecture about tolerance and being judgemental. What's to tolerate about a guy who beats his wife, he's an asshole, I don't care how you dress it up. If it's a psyche problem, why isn't he seeing a shrink intstead of just indulging this behavior? Anyway my big conclusion was that I was in a group of very sick people who thought they were fine and I was getting sicker by osmosis if nothing else. Yet I stayed for a while longer. I was up to my ass in alligators and didn't truly realize how bad off I was. I found out when I started dealing with folks who didn't understand Programese. During the last of AA for me I had a big garden and worked only there and at the Farmers Market, so I was pretty well Isolated from ordinary people. When Rose and I opened Pachyderm Electronics Repair, all that changed in a flash. Now I was dealing with everyday folks who couldn't care less if I was a drunk as long as their VCR got repaired. They didn't care about my personal life beyond sometimes a question " Are you related to Dan Hall? No, he's the most negative person I've ever met.(He and I lived on the same block in a town of 4 thousand) I found these folks much more real in their concerns and attitudes than AA folks. Though many knew I'd done time, because I like to shake that out early on with anyone I might end up being friends with. Most don't care, because that was 20 years ago and this is now. The folks outside AA don't want to know my secrets and don't tell me their's. We take each other as is. It feels so much better. Like a lot of things it takes a little time to fully realize how much better it is. Today I would go to an AA meeting if someone held a gun to my head, but not otherwise. Just too much to lose by going back into that twilight zone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Re: hello.. > > >>At 09:07 PM 6/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>And I'm the one lounging on a stack of pillows near Joe, who resembles >>>Pamela Lee quite a bit. >>> >>>NOT >>> >>>Jan >> >>Whaddya mean " Joe, who resembles Pamela Lee quite a bit " ? >>My breasts are entirely natural! >> >>Joe Berenbaum >>mailto:joe-b@... >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >>Try something new and discover more ways to save! >>http://clickhere./click/381 >> >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Re: hello.. > > >>Hi Jan; >> >>Lot of Hispanic guys call it 12steps to Jesus and laugh about it. >>Most of the guys I've met think 12steps is stupid and demeaning >>and many will opt for jail if treatment in 12steps is the other option. >>I saw that a lot in Arizona. Judges couldn't believe it because AZ >>jails are pretty tough. Much more so than Iowa. >> >>The Spanish " Machismo " just won't allow giving away ones >>manhood, even to God. Doesn't mean they're not religous, most I >>knew were Catholics and would bow to God, but believed whether >>or not to drink was their decision as a man. AA and Machismo >>cannot coexist because they are exact opposites. >> >>In many respects Machismo is wrong for the late 20th century due >>to it's gender attitude(Women are seen not heard etc) but I think it >>has a healthy attitude toward personal responsibility. In Machismo >>women hardly count, but neither does a man who beats on women, >>he's an outcast immediately regardless of circumstance as men >>are supposed to be strong and responsible. It's an interesting ethic. >> >>The ethic of Jehovahs Witness is similar, but adds non violence >>which is defenitely not a part of Machismo. >> >>We had a bible beater in our AA group, but he also beat his wife >>now and then. >> >>I've read the bible a few times, but don't know if I even have one >>now. I like " The Preacher " , I can't spell Ecclesiastes(Doubt if that's >>right) Some good observations on everyday living. " Money >>answereth all things " " Time and chance happeneth to them all " >> " Does it not rain on the just and unjust alike? " etc. " The living >>know that they will die, but the dead know not anything, for a living >>dog is better than a dead lion " >> >>Lot of philosophy in that book. Most of it says that time place and >>luck will be a big factor in our lives. Some things that happen have >>no other explanation than time and chance. Analyzing those is an >>exercise in futility. Knowing that is one reason I don't believe I did >>criminal things because of " Disease Alcoholism " , I did them simply >>because I could. By time place and chance, I was that man at that >>time. I am no longer he. I am different now, due to time and >>chance. How did Rose know Dr Laing? By chance. Time and >>chance accounts for a lot and to me that's acceptable. >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >>Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >>anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Re: hello.. > > >>Hi Jan; >> >>Proverbs covers a lot more ground than the preacher. I think The >>Preacher hangs together better, has a continuity to it that's sort of >>lacking in proverbs. >> >>I don't believe I've read a bible in the last ten years. Last I >>remember for sure, I taught Vacation Bible School in 1981 in Des >>Moines. >> >>Boy was I a sight, out playing softball with the kids and I was in a >>body cast. It was fun though. I remember running for a pop fly and >>as I reached out, the cast overbalanced me. I caught it, but was I >>a mess 8-) You've never lived till you've had infield dust inside a >>body cast! I'm scratchin' just remembering it. >> >>At the time I was about a month out of prison and being with the >>kids was great. I hated to see the 9 days end. >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Just Tell Us What You Want... >>Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >>http://clickhere./click/390 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Re: hello.. > > >> >>Ok .... >> >>Thanks for answering, and I will spill what is on my heart... >> >>I am an alocholic, and was in that life style for more years than I care to >>remember, it destroyed my life, over and over. I have been sober 18 months >>*today*...and was attending AA everyday, or twice a day, until about 4 >weeks >>ago. I can not force myself to sit through a whole meeting when I do bother >>going now, which is seldom. >> >>I have many things that AA has given me that I am grateful for. But there >>are other things that I do not like AT ALL, and am tired of those things >>being forced down my throat and being told I am " not giving back what I >have >>received " , and I am ungrateful, selfish, self-centered, etc. if I do not to >>exactly what they tell me to do. I am not " working my program " etc. >> >>Where we really started having a run in, was about 4 months ago. I had been >>nominated into a service position that I did not want. I am a single >mother, >>and have to work two jobs frequently. When I told them I did not have time >>for daily meetings or this position, I was told that I was on my way to a >>relapse, that I needed to make time for daily meetings, that I was not >>spiritual..etc.I walked into our service work meeting 4 months ago and >>erased my name from the position I held, They all started saying, " hey, you >>can't do that " ,and I said, " I did " ....and walked out. >> >>My heart is really hurting ....it has been my outlet and my strength for >the >>last 18 months, so now where do I turn? Since I seldom go anymore, I am >>treated like I have no sense, and that I am full of it when I do speak... >> >>I don't want to drink again, I miss my friends, and the whole thing has >hurt >>me more than I can say. I feel completely lost...no, that is not true. I do >>believe in God, and know he is here, but my friends are gone.... >> >> >> >> >>>Hi ; >>> >>>Yeah me too on the coffee, just forgot to mention the thermos of >>>coffee as it's practically an extension of my arm. >>> >>>My AA books are all boxed up, don't know what I'm going to do >>>with them. They are out in the shop. I noticed them on my >>>bookshelf out there and took them down and boxed them. I don't >>>even recall putting them on that shelf to begin with. >>> >>>Takes time to get out of the AA habit. I haven't been to a meeting >>>in seven years and nearly introduced myself as an alcoholic to a >>>customer last week. >>> >>>Old habits die hard. >>> >>>Glad you're with us >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Don't let the next virus knock you out! Special Offer to eGroups members >>>Install @Backup by June 30th and win a $100 Gift Certificate from Amazon >>>.com and @Backup free for a year! http://clickhere./click/363 >>> >>> >>>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >>> - Simplifying group communications >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>FreeShop is the #1 place for free and trial offers and great deals! >>Try something new and find out how you could win two round-trip tickets >>anywhere in the U.S.! http://clickhere./click/368 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 Re: hello.. > > >>At 11:13 PM 6/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >>>Hey Joe, >>> >>>Well I bet you do a better pic than the photo-booth one I >>>have at present! >>> >>>P. >> >>Indeed. And you can elect to have partial visual anonymity if you like and >>be looking over the top of a book or whatever. We can be creative. I have a >>Big Book you might like to pose with. Or maybe something else would >appeal... >> >>Joe Berenbaum >>mailto:joe-b@... >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Just Tell Us What You Want... >>Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! >>http://clickhere./click/390 >> >> >>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free >> - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 1999 Report Share Posted July 8, 1999 Monkeys? wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=5433 > Ty Kayleigh. How are the monkeys? > > P. > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:36:41 -0700 Kayleigh S > wrote: > > > Well, Pete, I'm not sure how you meant that comment. All I can say is that when someone fights me I fight back, and when I have disagree with you have always been openminded and willing to concede when you have gone too far. This does not happen very often, since I usually agree with you. > > > Pete Watts > > Owner > PSY-PHAR Psychology/Psychiatry Outcome Research in PsychoPharm > PD Personality Disorders Discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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