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  • 4 months later...
Guest guest

> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on this

side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost respect

and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted has been great

and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to understand myself.

Thank-you.>

> Kate

Hi Kate, and welcome.

Judith

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> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on this

side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost respect

and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted has been great

and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to understand myself.

Thank-you.>

> Kate

Hi Kate, and welcome.

Judith

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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Guest guest

> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on this

side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost respect

and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted has been great

and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to understand myself.

Thank-you.>

> Kate

Hi Kate, and welcome.

Judith

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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Guest guest

Glad to have you aboard Kate,

Your moderate perspective should prove a very helpful addition . It's

nice to be reminded of some of the good experiences I had in AA,

especially by someone who is also aware of AA " s foibles. If there were

more people like you in AA, I would probably still be going to meetings.

kstads@... wrote:

>

> Hi there-

>

> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, reading the posts

> with great interest. I finally decided perhaps it was time to

> participate. I stumbled on this list by accident, but signed up for it

> because I thought it might give me some insight as to why I no longer

> have any desire to attend AA meetings. I know from reading many of the

> posts that I have been very lucky. has said that there are some

> exceptional groups and I was fortunate to join one of those exceptional

> groups back in 1983.

>

> Unlike most of you my experience was extremely positive, but part of

> that is due to an extraordinary woman who became my sponsor and the

> fact that many of the members of my home group were people of great

> common sense. We were, by all accounts, the renegade group in our

> district, and for the most part free of the errant nonsense that I hear

> in meetings today. Whenever I got to close to buying into all the dogma

> (bs), my sponsor brought me back to earth--she was the one who told me

> the truth about Bill . However, she was also a family counselor

> and had a great deal of experience in treating alcoholics. We discussed

> other methods of recovery and she never showed a particular bias to any

> one method of treatment. She continued to work in the treatment field

> until her retirement, although she quit going to meetings. When I asked

> why, she never gave me a straight answer. She died of cancer in 1995,

> and now I have my answer. Somehow, AA has become irrelevant to my life,

> but it is not something that is easily explained to people who are

> still caught up in the confinement of AA. It is interesting to note

> that several people from that group no longer attend meetings, mostly,

> it seems because they have lives to live.

>

> I have been greatly saddened to read many of the stories on this list.

> So much damage has been inflicted by people in the AA program.

> Unfortunately, many of the stories sound all too familiar to me. I

> still go to meetings--perhaps once every 3 months or so, mostly because

> I still remain friends with many people who are in the program, and I

> am sometimes asked to counter some of the more destructive forces who

> try to take charge. I am one of those people who really don't give a

> damn about following the party line, I get up on my soapbox and preach

> rebellion and anarchy (in the case of AA, that means independent

> thinking and free will). Some people don't like it, and many get angry

> with me, but the odd thing is how many people thank me and how scared

> the " gurus " are of me.

>

> What I have noticed is that most people (not just those In AA) want

> easy answers, they want black and white. They don't want to have to

> think for themselves, or take responsibility for their lives, and the

> exercise of free will is just too much effort for them. That is one of

> the reasons that AA has drawn such a huge following--it provides pat

> answers, slogans and lots of reinforcement for following the party

> line. Maybe the reason that I don't want to go any more is that I

> finally grew up. Another reason though, is sheer disgust at what I hear

> and see at meetings, although I will admit to a certain amount of guilt

> at leaving the innocents to suffer through the idiocy.

>

> Apple's post of Aug. 5 regarding " If AA is so horrible.. " is right on.

> The positive aspects she describes do exist in some groups and in some

> people, but there are far too many negative and damaging things going

> on in the halls of AA for me to ever recommend it without reservations.

> Apple's point about those of us who have passed through the halls

> returning with new information gives me some motivation to continue my

> infrequent attendance if only to antagonize the " gurus " !

>

> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on

> this side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost

> respect and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted

> has been great and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to

> understand myself. Thank-you.

>

> Kate

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

> http://clickhere./click/606

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

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Guest guest

Glad to have you aboard Kate,

Your moderate perspective should prove a very helpful addition . It's

nice to be reminded of some of the good experiences I had in AA,

especially by someone who is also aware of AA " s foibles. If there were

more people like you in AA, I would probably still be going to meetings.

kstads@... wrote:

>

> Hi there-

>

> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, reading the posts

> with great interest. I finally decided perhaps it was time to

> participate. I stumbled on this list by accident, but signed up for it

> because I thought it might give me some insight as to why I no longer

> have any desire to attend AA meetings. I know from reading many of the

> posts that I have been very lucky. has said that there are some

> exceptional groups and I was fortunate to join one of those exceptional

> groups back in 1983.

>

> Unlike most of you my experience was extremely positive, but part of

> that is due to an extraordinary woman who became my sponsor and the

> fact that many of the members of my home group were people of great

> common sense. We were, by all accounts, the renegade group in our

> district, and for the most part free of the errant nonsense that I hear

> in meetings today. Whenever I got to close to buying into all the dogma

> (bs), my sponsor brought me back to earth--she was the one who told me

> the truth about Bill . However, she was also a family counselor

> and had a great deal of experience in treating alcoholics. We discussed

> other methods of recovery and she never showed a particular bias to any

> one method of treatment. She continued to work in the treatment field

> until her retirement, although she quit going to meetings. When I asked

> why, she never gave me a straight answer. She died of cancer in 1995,

> and now I have my answer. Somehow, AA has become irrelevant to my life,

> but it is not something that is easily explained to people who are

> still caught up in the confinement of AA. It is interesting to note

> that several people from that group no longer attend meetings, mostly,

> it seems because they have lives to live.

>

> I have been greatly saddened to read many of the stories on this list.

> So much damage has been inflicted by people in the AA program.

> Unfortunately, many of the stories sound all too familiar to me. I

> still go to meetings--perhaps once every 3 months or so, mostly because

> I still remain friends with many people who are in the program, and I

> am sometimes asked to counter some of the more destructive forces who

> try to take charge. I am one of those people who really don't give a

> damn about following the party line, I get up on my soapbox and preach

> rebellion and anarchy (in the case of AA, that means independent

> thinking and free will). Some people don't like it, and many get angry

> with me, but the odd thing is how many people thank me and how scared

> the " gurus " are of me.

>

> What I have noticed is that most people (not just those In AA) want

> easy answers, they want black and white. They don't want to have to

> think for themselves, or take responsibility for their lives, and the

> exercise of free will is just too much effort for them. That is one of

> the reasons that AA has drawn such a huge following--it provides pat

> answers, slogans and lots of reinforcement for following the party

> line. Maybe the reason that I don't want to go any more is that I

> finally grew up. Another reason though, is sheer disgust at what I hear

> and see at meetings, although I will admit to a certain amount of guilt

> at leaving the innocents to suffer through the idiocy.

>

> Apple's post of Aug. 5 regarding " If AA is so horrible.. " is right on.

> The positive aspects she describes do exist in some groups and in some

> people, but there are far too many negative and damaging things going

> on in the halls of AA for me to ever recommend it without reservations.

> Apple's point about those of us who have passed through the halls

> returning with new information gives me some motivation to continue my

> infrequent attendance if only to antagonize the " gurus " !

>

> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on

> this side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost

> respect and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted

> has been great and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to

> understand myself. Thank-you.

>

> Kate

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

> http://clickhere./click/606

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Glad to have you aboard Kate,

Your moderate perspective should prove a very helpful addition . It's

nice to be reminded of some of the good experiences I had in AA,

especially by someone who is also aware of AA " s foibles. If there were

more people like you in AA, I would probably still be going to meetings.

kstads@... wrote:

>

> Hi there-

>

> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, reading the posts

> with great interest. I finally decided perhaps it was time to

> participate. I stumbled on this list by accident, but signed up for it

> because I thought it might give me some insight as to why I no longer

> have any desire to attend AA meetings. I know from reading many of the

> posts that I have been very lucky. has said that there are some

> exceptional groups and I was fortunate to join one of those exceptional

> groups back in 1983.

>

> Unlike most of you my experience was extremely positive, but part of

> that is due to an extraordinary woman who became my sponsor and the

> fact that many of the members of my home group were people of great

> common sense. We were, by all accounts, the renegade group in our

> district, and for the most part free of the errant nonsense that I hear

> in meetings today. Whenever I got to close to buying into all the dogma

> (bs), my sponsor brought me back to earth--she was the one who told me

> the truth about Bill . However, she was also a family counselor

> and had a great deal of experience in treating alcoholics. We discussed

> other methods of recovery and she never showed a particular bias to any

> one method of treatment. She continued to work in the treatment field

> until her retirement, although she quit going to meetings. When I asked

> why, she never gave me a straight answer. She died of cancer in 1995,

> and now I have my answer. Somehow, AA has become irrelevant to my life,

> but it is not something that is easily explained to people who are

> still caught up in the confinement of AA. It is interesting to note

> that several people from that group no longer attend meetings, mostly,

> it seems because they have lives to live.

>

> I have been greatly saddened to read many of the stories on this list.

> So much damage has been inflicted by people in the AA program.

> Unfortunately, many of the stories sound all too familiar to me. I

> still go to meetings--perhaps once every 3 months or so, mostly because

> I still remain friends with many people who are in the program, and I

> am sometimes asked to counter some of the more destructive forces who

> try to take charge. I am one of those people who really don't give a

> damn about following the party line, I get up on my soapbox and preach

> rebellion and anarchy (in the case of AA, that means independent

> thinking and free will). Some people don't like it, and many get angry

> with me, but the odd thing is how many people thank me and how scared

> the " gurus " are of me.

>

> What I have noticed is that most people (not just those In AA) want

> easy answers, they want black and white. They don't want to have to

> think for themselves, or take responsibility for their lives, and the

> exercise of free will is just too much effort for them. That is one of

> the reasons that AA has drawn such a huge following--it provides pat

> answers, slogans and lots of reinforcement for following the party

> line. Maybe the reason that I don't want to go any more is that I

> finally grew up. Another reason though, is sheer disgust at what I hear

> and see at meetings, although I will admit to a certain amount of guilt

> at leaving the innocents to suffer through the idiocy.

>

> Apple's post of Aug. 5 regarding " If AA is so horrible.. " is right on.

> The positive aspects she describes do exist in some groups and in some

> people, but there are far too many negative and damaging things going

> on in the halls of AA for me to ever recommend it without reservations.

> Apple's point about those of us who have passed through the halls

> returning with new information gives me some motivation to continue my

> infrequent attendance if only to antagonize the " gurus " !

>

> To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on

> this side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost

> respect and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted

> has been great and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to

> understand myself. Thank-you.

>

> Kate

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

> http://clickhere./click/606

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Yes, Kate, welcome to 12 step free. Love your letter of introduction.

I have heard of such radical groups as you describe, and part of me

wishes that I had found one early on. But then, I wouldn't be here

would I?

Apple

>

> > To all of you who have suffered through the bs and have come out on

this

> side and have the courage to share your stories, I have the utmost

respect

> and admiration. I understand that the damage AA has inflicted has

been great

> and difficult to overcome. You have helped me to understand myself.

> Thank-you.>

> > Kate

>

> Hi Kate, and welcome.

>

> Judith

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________________________________________

> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

> Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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> Hi All,

Hi Ann, nice to meet you!

> I spent 12 years in AA. It took me a year or so to really " get " the first

step of AA -- to really see myself as utterly powerless. I tried for the

next eleven years to believe that a power greater than myself would and

could restore me to sanity. But I could never believe that, and I never

stayed sober for any length of time . I left AA four years ago, having

decided, basically, that I would rather die of the disease of alcoholism

than take any more of the treatment.>

It's surprising to me how many people are hurt by AA. You never hear about

us--you never really hear anything negative about AA unless you look for it.

But you are certainly not alone.

> Several months ago, I decided to look for alternatives to AA. I found the

SMART web site, and started trying to use SMART methods to get a handle on

my alcohol dependence. As I examine my thinking, I am finding that my most

irrational and damaging ideas regarding alcohol are the ones I absorbed from

AA. It now seems to me that curing myself of " alcoholism " -- that is, the

whole sad, sick set of ideas that I " got " in AA -- is a prerequisite, or

co-requisite (if that's a word?) of successfully recovering from alcohol

dependence. >

Makes sense to me.

> Apple, I think your web site is one of the most important on the web. And

I love this list. I feel much less alone.>

Yes, I agree that Apple is performing a valuable service in speaking up

about some of the less than wonderful truths around AA.

> So here I am, and thanks to you all for being here.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only place to be :)

Judith

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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> Hi All,

Hi Ann, nice to meet you!

> I spent 12 years in AA. It took me a year or so to really " get " the first

step of AA -- to really see myself as utterly powerless. I tried for the

next eleven years to believe that a power greater than myself would and

could restore me to sanity. But I could never believe that, and I never

stayed sober for any length of time . I left AA four years ago, having

decided, basically, that I would rather die of the disease of alcoholism

than take any more of the treatment.>

It's surprising to me how many people are hurt by AA. You never hear about

us--you never really hear anything negative about AA unless you look for it.

But you are certainly not alone.

> Several months ago, I decided to look for alternatives to AA. I found the

SMART web site, and started trying to use SMART methods to get a handle on

my alcohol dependence. As I examine my thinking, I am finding that my most

irrational and damaging ideas regarding alcohol are the ones I absorbed from

AA. It now seems to me that curing myself of " alcoholism " -- that is, the

whole sad, sick set of ideas that I " got " in AA -- is a prerequisite, or

co-requisite (if that's a word?) of successfully recovering from alcohol

dependence. >

Makes sense to me.

> Apple, I think your web site is one of the most important on the web. And

I love this list. I feel much less alone.>

Yes, I agree that Apple is performing a valuable service in speaking up

about some of the less than wonderful truths around AA.

> So here I am, and thanks to you all for being here.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only place to be :)

Judith

________________________________________________________________

Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com

Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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  • 8 months later...
Guest guest

Diane,

Welcome to our group! Now we have two Diane's!! And you rubberstamp, Lyssa

and I are excited! We love to stamp and Lyssa is the queen of scrapbooking,

Annie can verify that!

If you aren't doing anything on the 20th, I am having a DOTS party in

Attleboro, MA, you are welcome to come. Lyssa lives in Merrimack, maybe you

could carpool?

Diane

Open rny 11/15/99

Dr. Reines, NWH

230/164/130

________________________________________________________________________

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Guest guest

Hi Diane

Welcome to our group! I live in Southern NH .. I'm 29 (tick tick goes the

clock soon to be 30) married 12 years to my bud Benji ... and we have 2

girls. Kassie will be 9 in Sept & Isabelle (Izzy) will be 2 in June.

I had originally scheduled my consult with Dr. Shikora in Boston for a lap

rny but the long wait was driving me crazy. Not to mention twice they said

they mailed out the information packets to me and I never rec'd them .. so I

looked into other surgeons Dr. Randall or Dr. Thayer I called Dr. Thayer

first and got my consult booked within 8 weeks and surgery 3 weeks after

that. The information packet from their office arrived within 2 days of my

1st telephone call. I thought then this was the one .. I have since met Dr.

Randall and his group and think they are terrific too so I know either

choice would have worked but I do love my dear Dr. Thayer :)

Anyway just wanted to welcome you!

LOL don't even talk about grandkids I hope I have ALOT more years before

either of my girls present me with grandkids :)

Sorry to hear about the loss of your mom at such a young age. You've decided

to do something to avoid repeating it and thats a bit step!

Hugs

Lyssa

Introduction

Hi all,

I am just a little backwards, I should have introduced myself

before. My name is diane. I am 38 years young, and have been married

to my best friend, BJ, for 18yrs, gulp. We have two wonderful kids,

Dawn, 16, and , 13. I currently live in Penacook, NH, though I

am originally from Malden, MA. I will be graduating from Plymouth

State College with a BS in social work on 5/20, but still do not know

what I want to be when I grow up. I am also crazy for crafts, mostly

rubberstamping right now.

On 5/10/00, my wonderful mother will be gone for 6yrs. She died

at age 57 of a massive coronary. She was morbidly obese for nearly

her entire life, and both my sister and I share her obesity genes. I

do not want to end up like her. I have too much to do, a great life,

and I want to be active with my kids, and, though not for a long

long,LONG time :-), grandkids. (Did I mention not for a long time?,

chuckle.)

I am so excited to find this board, as I have been surfing the

net for information for close to a year now, while pondering the

notion that WLS might be something I want to do. It is. Finding

people who are local to me is a HUGE blessing. I look forward to

being here. Anyway, that's me in a nutshell. Thanks for making me

feel sooo welcome.

diane

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Guest guest

What's a DOTS party??

Re: Introduction

Diane,

Welcome to our group! Now we have two Diane's!! And you rubberstamp, Lyssa

and I are excited! We love to stamp and Lyssa is the queen of scrapbooking,

Annie can verify that!

If you aren't doing anything on the 20th, I am having a DOTS party in

Attleboro, MA, you are welcome to come. Lyssa lives in Merrimack, maybe you

could carpool?

Diane

Open rny 11/15/99

Dr. Reines, NWH

230/164/130

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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Guest guest

Welcome Diane!

What a great choice of names for your daughter!!! I'm Dawn too! :) How

ironic is this, that you have me named Dawn, Pam (valiantduffy@...) who

lives the next town over from you (and is an AMAZING person to know...and

know's all there is to know about scrap booking), Lyssa (lyssais@...)

who is into rubber stamping and crafts and such, and this whole group is

here for you to welcome you, answer your questions, and become friends!

This is soooo cool! I've never met anyone yet on the net with MY name!

LOL!

Dawn :) (aka: Blondie)

Introduction

Hi all,

I am just a little backwards, I should have introduced myself

before. My name is diane. I am 38 years young, and have been married

to my best friend, BJ, for 18yrs, gulp. We have two wonderful kids,

Dawn, 16, and , 13. I currently live in Penacook, NH, though I

am originally from Malden, MA. I will be graduating from Plymouth

State College with a BS in social work on 5/20, but still do not know

what I want to be when I grow up. I am also crazy for crafts, mostly

rubberstamping right now.

On 5/10/00, my wonderful mother will be gone for 6yrs. She died

at age 57 of a massive coronary. She was morbidly obese for nearly

her entire life, and both my sister and I share her obesity genes. I

do not want to end up like her. I have too much to do, a great life,

and I want to be active with my kids, and, though not for a long

long,LONG time :-), grandkids. (Did I mention not for a long time?,

chuckle.)

I am so excited to find this board, as I have been surfing the

net for information for close to a year now, while pondering the

notion that WLS might be something I want to do. It is. Finding

people who are local to me is a HUGE blessing. I look forward to

being here. Anyway, that's me in a nutshell. Thanks for making me

feel sooo welcome.

diane

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

http://click./1/3555/11/_/675032/_/957796343/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  • 2 years later...

Hi and Welcome!

If you are like me, you would not have looked for a group like this

unless you really wanted to right?

I have found that being able to share your experiences, struggles,

triumphs and listening to others does help so very much. As you go

on your day you might remember something someone said and it is

encouraging.

Unfortunately dieting and excersize are part of the regiment. It does

get easier. You can read how others start. Yesterday we talked

about that so called " slump " you need to get over before you can

really start rolling on this. Sounds like you have not passed that

yet. My best advise to you as starting out is start out slowly and

gradually increase things.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Dianne

> Hello All,

> Excess weight has been annoying me for long enough now that I am

> finally trying to do something about it. Exercising seems next to

> impossible and dieting is not much easier. I guess I thought maybe

> if I were to find encouragement within a group like this it might

> make the difference. I am a professional musician and my

appearance

> matters to my wallet as well as my self confidence.

> Count me in. I want to change for the better.

> Sincerely,

> Stemmons, " The Whistler "

> http://thewhistler.com

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Hi and Welcome!

If you are like me, you would not have looked for a group like this

unless you really wanted to right?

I have found that being able to share your experiences, struggles,

triumphs and listening to others does help so very much. As you go

on your day you might remember something someone said and it is

encouraging.

Unfortunately dieting and excersize are part of the regiment. It does

get easier. You can read how others start. Yesterday we talked

about that so called " slump " you need to get over before you can

really start rolling on this. Sounds like you have not passed that

yet. My best advise to you as starting out is start out slowly and

gradually increase things.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Dianne

> Hello All,

> Excess weight has been annoying me for long enough now that I am

> finally trying to do something about it. Exercising seems next to

> impossible and dieting is not much easier. I guess I thought maybe

> if I were to find encouragement within a group like this it might

> make the difference. I am a professional musician and my

appearance

> matters to my wallet as well as my self confidence.

> Count me in. I want to change for the better.

> Sincerely,

> Stemmons, " The Whistler "

> http://thewhistler.com

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Dear Dianne,

You are right, I got to the point I really wanted to do

something and take a step. I appreciate your advice and I know you

are right. Thank you for taking your time to welcome a new member.

your courtesy will be remembered. I think you have me pegged

correctly as a pre-slumpie. I'll bet I stand a better chance now

than I did though.

Yours whistlingly,

Stemmons, " The Whistler "

http://thewhistler.com

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Dear Dianne,

You are right, I got to the point I really wanted to do

something and take a step. I appreciate your advice and I know you

are right. Thank you for taking your time to welcome a new member.

your courtesy will be remembered. I think you have me pegged

correctly as a pre-slumpie. I'll bet I stand a better chance now

than I did though.

Yours whistlingly,

Stemmons, " The Whistler "

http://thewhistler.com

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