Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 We had a prescription for a glucometer when we started the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and glucose. Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than higher ones. Did you make any other changes than the ratio? mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, ketokid since 3/00, med-free but still having seizures __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 , I stopped giving him so much RCF because he wouldn't drink it all and I knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if he didn't finish it. So instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 g Rcf and increasing Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else has been the same. Dianna Ciolli wrote: We had a prescription for a glucometer when we started the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and glucose. Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than higher ones. Did you make any other changes than the ratio? mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, ketokid since 3/00, med-free but still having seizures __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 , I stopped giving him so much RCF because he wouldn't drink it all and I knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if he didn't finish it. So instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 g Rcf and increasing Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else has been the same. Dianna Ciolli wrote: We had a prescription for a glucometer when we started the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and glucose. Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than higher ones. Did you make any other changes than the ratio? mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, ketokid since 3/00, med-free but still having seizures __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 What's RCF? Sorry to be so ignorant! --- Terry Krumrei wrote: > , > I stopped giving him so much RCF because he > wouldn't drink it all and I > knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if he > didn't finish it. So > instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 g > Rcf and increasing > Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else has > been the same. > Dianna > > Ciolli wrote: > > > We had a prescription for a glucometer when we > started > > the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and > glucose. > > Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than > > higher ones. > > Did you make any other changes than the ratio? > > > > mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, > > ketokid since 3/00, med-free > > but still having seizures > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 RCF is a carbohydrate free formula. I also got some Stecia on Thursday and he has been using that instead of sweet 10. Dianna Ciolli wrote: What's RCF? Sorry to be so ignorant! --- Terry Krumrei wrote: > , > I stopped giving him so much RCF because he > wouldn't drink it all and I > knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if he > didn't finish it. So > instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 g > Rcf and increasing > Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else has > been the same. > Dianna > > Ciolli wrote: > > > We had a prescription for a glucometer when we > started > > the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and > glucose. > > Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than > > higher ones. > > Did you make any other changes than the ratio? > > > > mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, > > ketokid since 3/00, med-free > > but still having seizures > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 RCF is a carbohydrate free formula. I also got some Stecia on Thursday and he has been using that instead of sweet 10. Dianna Ciolli wrote: What's RCF? Sorry to be so ignorant! --- Terry Krumrei wrote: > , > I stopped giving him so much RCF because he > wouldn't drink it all and I > knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if he > didn't finish it. So > instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 g > Rcf and increasing > Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else has > been the same. > Dianna > > Ciolli wrote: > > > We had a prescription for a glucometer when we > started > > the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and > glucose. > > Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather than > > higher ones. > > Did you make any other changes than the ratio? > > > > mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, > > ketokid since 3/00, med-free > > but still having seizures > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that was forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was that something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose when it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just slightly? Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you do check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, is between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones look like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera More seizures! Hi,I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem.We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to usediastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. Thismorning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level backdown, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his proteincarbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins,1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do togluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a quickcheck. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if itis that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His ketoneswere high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a breakbetween his spasms.It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where westarted from and worse in the mornings.Dianna "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is limited because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two things come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is determined and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that ain't protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got the ratio where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You gonna keep protien low so you can give pure carb?? Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me and now its gone, maybe it will return some day Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as much as it is , 's mom Patti wrote: I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that was forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was that something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose when it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just slightly? Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you do check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, is between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones look like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera More seizures! Hi, I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem. We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level back down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his protein carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins, 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a quick check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if it is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His ketones were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a break between his spasms. It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we started from and worse in the mornings. Dianna "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is limited because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two things come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is determined and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that ain't protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got the ratio where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You gonna keep protien low so you can give pure carb?? Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me and now its gone, maybe it will return some day Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as much as it is , 's mom Patti wrote: I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that was forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was that something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose when it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just slightly? Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you do check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, is between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones look like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera More seizures! Hi, I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem. We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level back down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his protein carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins, 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a quick check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if it is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His ketones were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a break between his spasms. It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we started from and worse in the mornings. Dianna "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 , RCF = Ross Carbohydrate Free. It's a soy based formula made by the Ross Division of Abbott Laboratories , Hannah's mum, Australia Re: More seizures! > What's RCF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Okay, let me think here, so if the drink is a mix, then he'll be getting a balanced amount no matter how much he drinks, right? What kind of chicken & beef meals are you making for him? could he be allergic to them? Is he getting something like hot dogs? bologna? Just trying to think of what could be causing it. --- Terry Krumrei wrote: > RCF is a carbohydrate free formula. I also got some > Stecia on Thursday > and he has been using that instead of sweet 10. > Dianna > > Ciolli wrote: > > > What's RCF? > > Sorry to be so ignorant! > > > > > > --- Terry Krumrei wrote: > > > , > > > I stopped giving him so much RCF because he > > > wouldn't drink it all and I > > > knew I he wouldn't be getting enough protein if > he > > > didn't finish it. So > > > instead of 50g of RCF , I have been giving 10-12 > g > > > Rcf and increasing > > > Chix or Beef. His calories and everything else > has > > > been the same. > > > Dianna > > > > > > Ciolli wrote: > > > > > > > We had a prescription for a glucometer when we > > > started > > > > the diet. Our clinic runs it by ketones and > > > glucose. > > > > Some kids do better on lower ratios, rather > than > > > > higher ones. > > > > Did you make any other changes than the ratio? > > > > > > > > mom to Chase, 8 1/2 yrs old, > > > > ketokid since 3/00, med-free > > > > but still having seizures > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Dear Dianna: Now this might sound crazy-but my son is not normal!! We tried raising his protein-and he became acidic, honestly I thought I was going crazy but we tried it for 2 weeks-went back to normal carb/protein and less acidity?? Diane More seizures! > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Dear Dianna: Now this might sound crazy-but my son is not normal!! We tried raising his protein-and he became acidic, honestly I thought I was going crazy but we tried it for 2 weeks-went back to normal carb/protein and less acidity?? Diane More seizures! > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 The formula is in the 1994 edition of Freeman's book. It's actually the other way around. 46% of protein is not converted to glucose. 56% of protein is converted to glucose and is " anti-ketogenic " . 100% of carbohydrates are converted to glucose and about 10% of fat is converted to glucose and is " anti-ketongenic " . The ratio of fat to protein plus carbohydrate is a simplified version of the formula and easier to work with. Also, the requirement of a certain minimum amount of protein for proper growth and tissue repair makes the formula easier to work with. Hope this helps. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Dianna, Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to back this up but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body reacts to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone body will react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so quickly, I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's ratio before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not necessarily the 3.5:1 ratio. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level > back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a > quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if > it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a > break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Dianna, Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to back this up but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body reacts to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone body will react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so quickly, I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's ratio before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not necessarily the 3.5:1 ratio. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level > back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a > quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if > it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a > break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Dianna, Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to back this up but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body reacts to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone body will react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so quickly, I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's ratio before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not necessarily the 3.5:1 ratio. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level > back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a > quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if > it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a > break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 & all, The way I understand it is this. The body (keto or not) doesn't burn carbs for energy, it burns glucose. The body can convert carbs to glucose more quickly than it can protein. In some cases (as 's), these kids can handle a lower ratio, if given a protein slant because of this fact. In reality, I feel that the carbs and protein should really be seperated as elements of the ratio, but that gets soooo complicated (not had the energy to do this for yet, maybe 7:1.5:1 -- fat:protein:carb). Bottom line, the body CAN convert protein to glucose, but it is much harder than carbs, so keto kids seem to be able to tolerate protein better. For example, I treat SF jello as a free food for , even though it has 1g of protein. I would never be so lax with a gram of carb. Just my .02 cents. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 18:14:40 +0000 m.coole@... writes: > Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be > but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is limited > because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two > things > come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is > determined > and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that ain't > protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got the > ratio > where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You gonna > keep > protien low so you can give pure carb?? > Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me and > now > its gone, maybe it will return some day > Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as much > as it > is > , 's mom > > Patti wrote: > > > I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that > was > > forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was > that > > something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose > when > > it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just > slightly? > > Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you > do > > check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, > is > > between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones > look > > like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera > > > > More seizures! > > Hi, > > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is > > my problem. > > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had > > to use > > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about > > 15%. This > > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his > > level back > > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch > > his protein > > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > > proteins, > > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be > > do to > > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in > > for a quick > > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will > > know if it > > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. > > His ketones > > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did > > have a break > > between his spasms. > > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back > > where we > > started from and worse in the mornings. > > > > Dianna > > > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT > > just a last resort! " > > > > List is for parent to parent support only. > > It is important to get medical advice from > > a professional keto team! > > Subscribe: > > ketogenic-subscribe > > Unsubscribe: > > ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 & all, The way I understand it is this. The body (keto or not) doesn't burn carbs for energy, it burns glucose. The body can convert carbs to glucose more quickly than it can protein. In some cases (as 's), these kids can handle a lower ratio, if given a protein slant because of this fact. In reality, I feel that the carbs and protein should really be seperated as elements of the ratio, but that gets soooo complicated (not had the energy to do this for yet, maybe 7:1.5:1 -- fat:protein:carb). Bottom line, the body CAN convert protein to glucose, but it is much harder than carbs, so keto kids seem to be able to tolerate protein better. For example, I treat SF jello as a free food for , even though it has 1g of protein. I would never be so lax with a gram of carb. Just my .02 cents. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 18:14:40 +0000 m.coole@... writes: > Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be > but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is limited > because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two > things > come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is > determined > and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that ain't > protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got the > ratio > where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You gonna > keep > protien low so you can give pure carb?? > Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me and > now > its gone, maybe it will return some day > Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as much > as it > is > , 's mom > > Patti wrote: > > > I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that > was > > forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was > that > > something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose > when > > it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just > slightly? > > Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you > do > > check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, > is > > between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones > look > > like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera > > > > More seizures! > > Hi, > > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is > > my problem. > > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had > > to use > > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about > > 15%. This > > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his > > level back > > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch > > his protein > > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > > proteins, > > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be > > do to > > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in > > for a quick > > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will > > know if it > > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. > > His ketones > > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did > > have a break > > between his spasms. > > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back > > where we > > started from and worse in the mornings. > > > > Dianna > > > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT > > just a last resort! " > > > > List is for parent to parent support only. > > It is important to get medical advice from > > a professional keto team! > > Subscribe: > > ketogenic-subscribe > > Unsubscribe: > > ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Okay, but doesn't that basically agree with what I just said? Easier to (and more of) carb converted to glucose than protien, so limiting protien because of potential gluco (whatever it is, conversion to glucose not make much sense either from a seizure control point of view or from point of view that little bodies need protien to grow, right? myketokid@... wrote: > & all, > The way I understand it is this. The body (keto or not) doesn't burn > carbs for energy, it burns glucose. The body can convert carbs to > glucose more quickly than it can protein. In some cases (as 's), > these kids can handle a lower ratio, if given a protein slant because of > this fact. In reality, I feel that the carbs and protein should really > be seperated as elements of the ratio, but that gets soooo complicated > (not had the energy to do this for yet, maybe 7:1.5:1 -- > fat:protein:carb). Bottom line, the body CAN convert protein to glucose, > but it is much harder than carbs, so keto kids seem to be able to > tolerate protein better. For example, I treat SF jello as a free food > for , even though it has 1g of protein. I would never be so lax with > a gram of carb. Just my .02 cents. > Kathy in Tennessee > Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced > Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 > " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain > you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will > rescue you. " > Isaiah 46:4 > > On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 18:14:40 +0000 m.coole@... writes: > > Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be > > but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is limited > > because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two > > things > > come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is > > determined > > and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that ain't > > protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got the > > ratio > > where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You gonna > > keep > > protien low so you can give pure carb?? > > Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me and > > now > > its gone, maybe it will return some day > > Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as much > > as it > > is > > , 's mom > > > > Patti wrote: > > > > > I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link that > > was > > > forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned was > > that > > > something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to glucose > > when > > > it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just > > slightly? > > > Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If you > > do > > > check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our clinic, > > is > > > between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his ketones > > look > > > like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera > > > > > > More seizures! > > > Hi, > > > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is > > > my problem. > > > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had > > > to use > > > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about > > > 15%. This > > > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his > > > level back > > > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch > > > his protein > > > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > > > proteins, > > > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be > > > do to > > > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in > > > for a quick > > > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will > > > know if it > > > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. > > > His ketones > > > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did > > > have a break > > > between his spasms. > > > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back > > > where we > > > started from and worse in the mornings. > > > > > > Dianna > > > > > > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT > > > just a last resort! " > > > > > > List is for parent to parent support only. > > > It is important to get medical advice from > > > a professional keto team! > > > Subscribe: > > > ketogenic-subscribe > > > Unsubscribe: > > > ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Kathy, You could be right. Nick seems to get a little better every day. The dietitian had us change from a 3.25 to 3.5 in a week. We are going in today to get another BHB at the 3.5 just to see where he is at plus have him weighed. He was good all evening yesterday. We even got some laughs and smiles. Thanks Dianna myketokid@... wrote: Dianna, Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to back this up but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body reacts to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone body will react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so quickly, I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's ratio before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not necessarily the 3.5:1 ratio. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 "Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you." Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level > back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a > quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if > it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a > break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last resort!" > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Kathy, You could be right. Nick seems to get a little better every day. The dietitian had us change from a 3.25 to 3.5 in a week. We are going in today to get another BHB at the 3.5 just to see where he is at plus have him weighed. He was good all evening yesterday. We even got some laughs and smiles. Thanks Dianna myketokid@... wrote: Dianna, Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to back this up but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body reacts to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone body will react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so quickly, I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's ratio before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not necessarily the 3.5:1 ratio. Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 "Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you." Isaiah 46:4 On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level > back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for a > quick > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will know if > it > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > ketones > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have a > break > between his spasms. > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where we > started from and worse in the mornings. > > Dianna > > > "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last resort!" > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Yes, I agree with this. If a child was having trouble staying in ketosis because of high levels of glucose in the blood, I'd look at limiting carbs, not protein (unless the protein was extremely high). Bottom line to my point is that carbs and protein ain't equal. The ratio set-up leads us to believe that. Maybe someday some wise soul will come up with a more accurate and precise way to express the ratio. (I know, I know, picky, picky, picky), but I really believe the diet is coming full circle from " sacrifice growth and health to prevent seizures " to " maintain a healthy diet & prevent seizures. " Before beginning the diet, I had read so much about how this diet is sooooo unhealthy. I read that my child would not grow. Wonder how many other parents read that and chose not to try the diet. Well, I think the reason the diet gets a bad rap (from professionals) is because of misunderstanding about protein. Anyway, just my .02 cents. I'm too tired to change the world today, maybe tomorrow Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:50:59 +0000 m.coole@... writes: > Okay, but doesn't that basically agree with what I just said? Easier > to (and more of) > carb converted to glucose than protien, so limiting protien because > of potential gluco > (whatever it is, conversion to glucose not make much sense either > from a seizure > control point of view or from point of view that little bodies need > protien to grow, > right? > > > myketokid@... wrote: > > > & all, > > The way I understand it is this. The body (keto or not) > doesn't burn > > carbs for energy, it burns glucose. The body can convert carbs to > > glucose more quickly than it can protein. In some cases (as > 's), > > these kids can handle a lower ratio, if given a protein slant > because of > > this fact. In reality, I feel that the carbs and protein should > really > > be seperated as elements of the ratio, but that gets soooo > complicated > > (not had the energy to do this for yet, maybe 7:1.5:1 -- > > fat:protein:carb). Bottom line, the body CAN convert protein to > glucose, > > but it is much harder than carbs, so keto kids seem to be able to > > tolerate protein better. For example, I treat SF jello as a free > food > > for , even though it has 1g of protein. I would never be so > lax with > > a gram of carb. Just my .02 cents. > > Kathy in Tennessee > > Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% > reduced > > Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 > > " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will > sustain > > you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and > I will > > rescue you. " > > Isaiah 46:4 > > > > On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 18:14:40 +0000 m.coole@... writes: > > > Somebody tell me if I am crazy here, might just be > > > but I have heard it speculated before that maybe protien is > limited > > > because a certain percentage can be converted to carb. But two > > > things > > > come to mind, once you set the ratio, the amount of fat is > > > determined > > > and if in that 1 part of the equation (ie 3:1) everything that > ain't > > > protien is carb, and carb is 100% carb. So as long as you got > the > > > ratio > > > where you want, what the concern of increasing protien? You > gonna > > > keep > > > protien low so you can give pure carb?? > > > Geez, I had another thought related too but spoke to me > and > > > now > > > its gone, maybe it will return some day > > > Anyway can't really see the rationale for limiting protein as > much > > > as it > > > is > > > , 's mom > > > > > > Patti wrote: > > > > > > > I just read an article on food enzymes the other day (a link > that > > > was > > > > forwarded to this list) and one thing I remember it mentioned > was > > > that > > > > something like 46% of protein is (or can be) converted to > glucose > > > when > > > > it's digested. I wonder if his protein may be too high? Just > > > slightly? > > > > Watch out for making too many changes at once. Go slowly. If > you > > > do > > > > check the blood sugar, the target range, according to our > clinic, > > > is > > > > between 55 and 75 for good seizure control. What did his > ketones > > > look > > > > like before you increased the ratio? Patti, mom to Katera > > > > > > > > More seizures! > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here > is > > > > my problem. > > > > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we > had > > > > to use > > > > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about > > > > 15%. This > > > > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop > his > > > > level back > > > > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to > switch > > > > his protein > > > > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high > on > > > > proteins, > > > > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may > be > > > > do to > > > > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him > in > > > > for a quick > > > > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I > will > > > > know if it > > > > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be > patient. > > > > His ketones > > > > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he > did > > > > have a break > > > > between his spasms. > > > > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back > > > > where we > > > > started from and worse in the mornings. > > > > > > > > Dianna > > > > > > > > > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, > NOT > > > > just a last resort! " > > > > > > > > List is for parent to parent support > only. > > > > It is important to get medical advice > from > > > > a professional keto team! > > > > Subscribe: > > > > ketogenic-subscribe > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Dianna, So glad to hear he is doing better!!! This diet can be nerve racking because every child is different & requires different treatment. You're doing a great job. BTW, an increase from 3.25 to 3.5 sounds like a good increase (some may recommend a slower one, but I think is sounds like a good amount). Kathy in Tennessee Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you. " Isaiah 46:4 On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:56:58 -0500 Terry Krumrei writes: > Kathy, > You could be right. Nick seems to get a little better every day. > The > dietitian had us change from a 3.25 to 3.5 in a week. We are going > in > today to get another BHB at the 3.5 just to see where he is at plus > have > him weighed. He was good all evening yesterday. We even got some > laughs and smiles. > Thanks Dianna > > > myketokid@... wrote: > > > Dianna, > > Don't be hasty on changing things. I believe (nothing to > back > > this up > > but my gut) that these kids can go thru an increase in seizures > > sometimes, just because of a change - any change. When the body > > reacts > > to something, anything out of its comfort zone, a seizure-prone > body > > will > > react with seizures. I wouldn't through out the higher ratio so > > quickly, > > I'd give it at least a couple of weeks. BTW, where was Nick's > ratio > > before the 3.5:1? A great increase may be your culprit, not > > necessarily > > the 3.5:1 ratio. > > Kathy in Tennessee > > Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% > reduced > > > > Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3 > > " Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will > sustain > > > > you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and > I > > will > > rescue you. " > > Isaiah 46:4 > > > > > > On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0500 Terry Krumrei > > > > writes: > > > Hi, > > > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my > > > problem. > > > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to > use > > > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. > This > > > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his > level > > > back > > > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his > > > protein > > > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on > > > proteins, > > > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do > to > > > gluclose levels. I could do it the right way and run him in for > a > > > quick > > > check. I have a friend that has a bloodtester. Then I will > know if > > > > > it > > > is that. Or do I need to take a big breath and be patient. His > > > ketones > > > were high this morning, unlike yesterday morning and he did have > a > > > break > > > between his spasms. > > > It seems like we have gone from a 25% improvement to back where > we > > > started from and worse in the mornings. > > > > > > Dianna > > > > > > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just > a > > > last resort! " > > > > > > List is for parent to parent support only. > > > It is important to get medical advice from a > > > professional keto team! > > > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > > > Unsubscribe: > ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Bill, Nick's calories haven't changed since when we first started and they dropped 100 cal. He had gained 1 pound 4 ounces in three weeks. He has remained the same weight now for the last 3 weeks. I use the Stanford keto menu planner that I downloaded off the internet. I like it except I would like the option of using .5 g instead of just 1. It would make calculations easier. That program does it all for me. I just insert the food and can increase and decrease amounts til I have the ratio right and the calories. Dianna ps. Do you have any info on sesame oil? The Barbers wrote: Hi Dianna, What happened to calories when you changed the ratio? Do you calculate the meals yourself? Perhaps you should recheck all the calculations. Bill Terry Krumrei wrote: > > Hi, > I need help. I will also e-mail my dietitian, but here is my problem. > We upped Nick's ratio to 3.5 on Sat. Sunday morning we had to use > diastat. He seemed to have increased seizures by about 15%. This > morning we had to use diastat again. So, should I drop his level back > down, or should I shift his protein carbs. I had to switch his protein > carbs at the transition from 2.5 to 3. He is still high on proteins, > 1.6 per kilo. Of course I can only speculate that it may be do to > gluclose levels. "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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