Re: Grrrr

January 2, 2010

Jen,

Thank you

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 4:58:55 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

Wow, I'm pretty offended here.Â I thought this list serve was for all RD's,

even those that are democrats.Â I am proud to be a democrat, voted for

President Obama.Â Do I like everything in the health bill?, 'no'.Â I wish it

didn't give so much business/money to the already sucky insurance companies

that are out there.Â I can't believe some of the things you guys were

writing here for everyone to believe on a somewhat professional list serve

or so I thought.Â Some of your opinions about our president and the health

reform, I wouldn't even let my family read on facebook?Â I would keep them

to myself, b/c I understand that everyone has a right to their beliefs and

values.

and FWIW, here is the definition of socialism.Â -a theory or system of

social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control

of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc.

I think people often mistake it for communism.Â Alot of the things in our

country are socialist ie - police, fire, libraries, the military, schools.

It doesn't keep people from using those services....

>

> Merav,

>

> I will only respond to one of your comments. The 3-4 month wait

> happened when going outside the HMO network. A referral was requested

> and received from the HMO within 24 hours. When the outside providers

> were contacted, it took them 3 days to verify that the HMO would

> indeed pay, then once the outside provider allowed the patient to

> schedule the appointment (no appointments are scheduled unless there

> is proof of payment, up front), there was a 3-4 month wait to see the

> provider. When appointments are made with providers within the HMO,

> there is typically a 1-2 week wait, at most.

>

> My warmest regards to all for a healthy and happy new year,

>

> pam

>

> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> Affiliate Associate Professor

> Pharmacy

>

> MS Student

> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> School of Nursing

>

> University of Washington

> Seattle, WA

> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

>

>Â

>

> >

> > Let me respond to each of your point:

> >

> > 1. While many of us might not be covered for catasrophic, we will be

> > covered even less with Gov health care. Those who wait for ENT or

> > Endo for 3-4 months are likely having an HMO insurance. Even GHI has

> > few options: PPO, HMO and EPO but at least you have a choice and

> > you choose according to yourt means and needs. So why I will have to

> > give up my great PPO, which allows me to see an ortho and get a knee

> > orthoscopy within 2 weeks, just for someone to decide that I have to

> > have something less.

> >

> > 2. level of care - I can tell you that in Israel, in general, the

> > healthcare is very good. many doctors here in the US even came and

> > graduated in Israel or did fellowship there. Talking about liver

> > transplant - Hadasah Ein karem, one of the best in the Middle East

> > and considered a very respectful med center in Europe, for that

> > precidure alone. I had the pleasure to work with that surgeoun while

> > on my first internship back then. I hope I will never need him, for

> > myself or loved ones, but if I do - I will not hesiste to be taken

> > under his care. BUT, with all that said - if I would not have a

> > supplemental insurance - I might have to wait longer to have the

> > ability for his great consult.

> >

> > When the socialized health care stated/reformed in israel many

> > privet MD-groups formed to allow better and quicker access, paid by

> > with cash or supplemental insurance. It is just a fact and it does

> > create 2 classes of health care and this will happen here once we

> > are all forced for the Gov bill.

> >

> > 3. I am well aware that every healthcare insurer is having a team,

> > usually made of MDs, or RNs, who decide and approve or

> > disapprove.BUT, according to my PCP, and per my own experiance -

> > all is doen sufficiently. Before my knee orth - I got an MRI

> > approval by the health insureance within 24hrs, appointmnet within

> > 72 hrs and Sx 2 weeks later. It is just a question of quantity.

> > When you have milion memebrs, let say, that you need to check their

> > MDs claims/requests for tests - it will take a " X " time to do so.

> > When you ahve 10 milion to review - it will take 10X longer. Pure

> > math. yes, you can say they will employ more, great, we need more

> > jobs, but again - these jobs are Gov jobs, which could be great but

> > we are loosing more hold of our capitalist country. No system is

> > perfect, but why break everything to the ground and re-invent the

> > wheel? Why not correct what is not good, like the fact that many

> > leagal Americans don't have any health covergae and therefore go to

> > ER for every little thing.

> >

> > as far as benefiting the share holders - true and they are the ones

> > who ahve interst not only in their dividends but also in the

> > contiuum of their company, so they ahve an interst that the ones

> > insured, you and I, will get the best service b/c if we are not

> > happy, we could choose another carrier. When it is Gov run, or

> > controlled, we will not ahve any choice. happy or not with your

> > carrier or provider - too bad. You are stuck.

> >

> > 4. I said it before and I will say it again. I am all for providing

> > coverage to all and as Kathy said - to all legal Americans. But why

> > that should mean that we give up a good coverage by PPO plans that

> > some of us are lucky to be provided by our employers? Why give up

> > Mayo Clinic system - who are not just one of the best in the

> > Americas but in the world. Mayo's name goes around the globe. not

> > for nothig.

> >

> > That will be very intersting what and how it will affect us, as RDs.

> > Will we be considred as preventive and non-invasive care and

> > therfore more MNT will be approved? or Chiroprators/ MDs and RNs

> > will provide nutritional care and charge for it b/c not all states

> > have licensure (but this is a whole diferent discussion)? I did not

> > form an oppinion about this one. I am not sure....

> >

> > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN

> >

> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >

> > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > From: pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:46:36 -0800

> > Subject: Re: Grrrr

> >

> > Merav,

> >

> > I've spent the past year studying health care in various areas of the

> > world, so am familiar with the issues you discuss. This discussion is

> > far beyond the forum we have here. Suffice it to say that health care

> > is rationed in the US now, although it's the elephant in the room

> > here, probably because that rationing is economic. You can get a liver

> > transplant tomorrow if you like, as long as you pay in cash.

> > Otherwise, you cannot even be evaluated by a transplant team unless

> > there is sufficient evidence of ability to pay. Many who think they

> > have health insurance for catastrophic illness are shocked to find out

> > that their insurer will not pay for life-saving therapies.

> > Additionally, it is not uncommon for individuals in the US who need

> > subspecialty care to have to wait. I know folks who wait up to 4

> > months for endocrinologist visits, 3 months for ENT, etc. And these

> > are folks who HAVE insurance through their employer.

> >

> > Your statement that quality of care is reduced in nations that have

> > public options for healthcare is flat out wrong. The US is not even in

> > the top 10 when it comes to health care outcomes. About half of the

> > folks with diabetes in this country do not receive care meeting

> > standards set by the ADiabA. There are many, many other areas where we

> > fall short.

> >

> > Also, it is patently wrong that President Obama is " stepping in " to

> > make decisions regarding your health care. Are you comfortable now

> > with your insurer making those decisions instead? Because those

> > decisions made by the insurers are purely for economic reasons, and

> > not with the goal to provide care for everyone. Rather, as Pat

> > pointed out, the economics now are to benefit the share holders of the

> > insurer.

> >

> > It's been said that no one is for major health reform until they

> > experience the horrific reality of a bill for health care that exceeds

> > their ability to pay. Again, my wish is for no one to experience this.

> > As human beings, we should all have access to health care.

> >

> > Regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >

> >>

> >> Dear Pam,

> >>

> >> When you say believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear -

> >> is a great notion but also delivers a message that no one has the

> >> right information but you. At least this is a hidden message that I

> >> get. Maybe itâ€™s me.

> >>

> >> Let me tell you a thing or two about nationalized/socialized health

> >> care, if you look at countries that have it (Canada, UK, Russia, and

> >> Israel -where I am from):

> >>

> >> 1. Access is granted to all - great, and I am all for it.

> >>

> >> 2. every little blood test, every x-ray (unless in ER), MRI or CT

> >> scan needs approval before they could be performed and to get

> >> approved takes sometimes 2-3 weeks, sometimes 2-3 months. I agree

> >> that some doctors are over-testing, but it due to defensive

> >> medicine, they all want to make sure they cover all bases and beyond

> >> so they are protected from future law suites. This is something we

> >> have to blame our society, at least in part, b/c ppl are coming to

> >> hospitals with a mind set of " where and what could I sue you for " .

> >> I don't want anyone but my doctor to make a decision about my health

> >> care and now Mr. Obama is stepping in and I don't like it.

> >>

> >> 3. Quality of care is reduced. Why? Because the good doctors don't

> >> want to participate in the Gov programs b/c they are getting hard

> >> time ordering tests and they will be the ones being held liable if a

> >> pt dies while waiting for approval. They don't like the bureaucracy

> >> that comes with it and therefore not only choose to be out of it but

> >> they can afford it b/c the rich pts will come anyhow.

> >>

> >> My father had to wait 3-4 months for a simple cataract Sx. Not a

> >> life threatening, but a quality of life, simple, ambulatory

> >> procedure, as we all know.

> >>

> >> My aunt had to pay 1500 IS (Israeli Shekels, about $375) to get an

> >> appointment for a cardiac procedure in 2 weeks. She was able to get

> >> it in 2 wks because she had a supplemental insurance, private

> >> insurance, on top of the Gov one. If she didn't have the means to

> >> pay for it ($375 is not cheep) - she would have gotten an

> >> appointment 3 month later. And I am talking about a cardiac

> >> procedure. I don't know the name of the procedure in English, since

> >> they gave me the term in Hebrew, and it is a life threatening

> >> condition. Basically, she as an un-controlled A. fib and the only

> >> options, after medications didn't help, are this procedure or a

> >> pacemaker.

> >>

> >> I have colleagues and other co-workers, some of them are MDs, who

> >> came to the US from the previously USSR - they are all very much

> >> against the Gov health plan. They all say the same - level of care

> >> is less, lines are longer and everything needs approval prior to

> >> providing care.

> >>

> >> and again, the better doctors prefer or may prefer not take the Gov

> >> insurance and if they do - they will give priority to paying/

> >> private pts. When ppl are able and paying out of pocket, they

> >> expect, and rightfully so, a better and quicker service.

> >>

> >> So it will create a 2-class health care.

> >>

> >> My problem is that by forcing all of us to use the Gov health plan,

> >> those of us who are lucky to be not only employed, but also fully

> >> covered with good insurance, may be forced to either pay taxes on

> >> our health coverage (depends how much is it, but with the inflation

> >> and recession - many already living pay-check to pay check so any

> >> increase in taxes means reduced net-income), or our employers will

> >> stop providing us with health coverage , after all - why should they

> >> if the Gov gives something else for free (free to the employer),

> >> they wouldn't care that is not as good.

> >>

> >> I am all for covering the uninsured, but why does it have to be on

> >> my expense, why do I have to potentially lose my current coverage

> >> for the sake of someone who doesn't, why my level of care should be

> >> deteriorated in order to improve someone else's. That's socialism

> >> and I did not vote for it.

> >>

> >> What we needed is a plan that allows the uninsured to be covered by

> >> Gov health plan, but to say that this plan is offered ONLY to those

> >> who are unemployed and not provided health coverage. This way - you

> >> may still need some tax increase to cover that bill, but it will be

> >> less then covering all of us. And once you get employed - you should

> >> have coverage by your employer. Businesses should get tax credit or

> >> refund for providing health care. This way you get two things:

> >>

> >> 1. Employers will have to provide a better health coverage then the

> >> " basic " Gov plan which will lead to #2: ppl would want to work

> >> because they will know they will be having access to better health

> >> care/coverage. Unlike now - many ppl are discouraged to seek work bc

> >> the pay is so low, so " why bother " and depends on the state you are,

> >> you get financial aid from the Gov and health care to some level (or

> >> go to the ER for every little UTI). BUt if we all get the same

> >> coverage, and some ppl in have the mentality to be unemployed bc

> >> sitting at home and collecting benefits is better in their mind,

> >> from working, maybe, just maybe, a knowledge that you can get a

> >> better health coverage when employed, might encourage them to take a

> >> job, for less pay, but more benefits.

> >>

> >> HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody.

> >>

> >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN

> >>

> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >>

> >>> To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> >>> From: pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >>> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:52:54 -0800

> >>> Subject: Re: Grrrr

> >>>

> >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not " pushing " a

> >>> particular platform. What our professional organization would like

> >>> is

> >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package looks like.

> >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health care

> >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> >>>

> >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the same as

> >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> >>> raising

> >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and (although I

> >>> am

> >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes for large

> >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we see and

> >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to emotional

> >>> issues

> >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> >>> reliable

> >>> source.

> >>>

> >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one in the

> >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That we all

> >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality, regardless

> >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that no one

> >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune to lose

> >>> their job and/or get sick.

> >>>

> >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> >>>

> >>> pam

> >>>

> >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> >>> Pharmacy

> >>>

> >>> MS Student

> >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> >>> School of Nursing

> >>>

> >>> University of Washington

> >>> Seattle, WA

> >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> >>>

> >>>> Exactly.

> >>>>

> >>>> Grrrr

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

> >>>> still a

> >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

> >>>> put

> >>>>> things in perspective.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

> >>>>> the

> >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> >>>>> getting

> >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> >>>> breaking news

> >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

> >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> >>>>> political

> >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

> >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> >>>> other. I am

> >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

> >>>> organization

> >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

> >>>> I would

> >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Carol

> >>>>>

> >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

> >>>> Dolly

> >>>>> Parton

> >>>>>

January 2, 2010

Pam,

Thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

20 yrs ago when my children were out of college and did not have medical

coverage by their employers, I chose to pay for catastrophic ($2000 deductable)

health insurance for them. I was fortunately in a financial position to do this.

The proposed Government option as I read it is an OPTION. Some of the thread of

this topic seems to believe that the Government option is REQUIREMENT, A

DEMAND.

Again, thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

Madalyn Friedberg, RD CDN

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 7:51:37 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

,

Will you refuse Medicare when you become eligible? Because,

technically, that's socialized medicine. Do you have friends or

relatives in the military? Well, they get socialized medicine. If you

think these programs need to go because they are socialized, how will

you pay for your own healthcare when no longer working and suffer

perhaps from one or two chronic illnesses? If we do nothing now,

healthcare costs in the US will only rise exponentially and there will

be no incentive for improved quality of care.

At this time, a chunk of the cost of the insurance that you'll gladly

pay for your son is also paying for healthcare for the uninsured.

Also, at this point, finding a policy that is affordable for young

adults is incredibly difficult. I know because a few years ago I had

to do that when my daughter was in between finishing college and her

first job had no benefits. The cost was astronomical and the coverage

was bare bones. Depending on where one lives, it can be more or less

difficult to find individual policies.

I understand the desire to not pay for others and the choices that

others make. What makes Democracy so messy sometimes is the debates

that we have to go through to find the option that is best for most,

and to be sure we are considering the needs of those who cannot make

their wishes known. Perhaps this thread of discussion will make us all

think some more, and who knows, perhaps we'll come up with a plan that

works, is affordable, and is least offensive to all. I know we'll

never have 100% agreement on any of this.

Regards,

p

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> The problem with " children " being covered until age 26 is who gets

> to pay for it. Me! I'd rather not. I'll pay for my own son's

> insurance, or he can pay for his own. I don't want you to have to

> pay for his. Slippery slope toward socialism, whether people want to

> hear the word or not.

>

> Dave

>

> Re: Grrrr

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not

> " pushing " a

> > > >>> particular platform. What our professional organization

> would like

> > > >>> is

> > > >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package

> looks like.

> > > >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health

> care

> > > >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the

> same as

> > > >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> > > >>> raising

> > > >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and

> (although I

> > > >>> am

> > > >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes

> for large

> > > >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we

> see and

> > > >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to

> emotional

> > > >>> issues

> > > >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> > > >>> reliable

> > > >>> source.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one

> in the

> > > >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> > > >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That

> we all

> > > >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality,

> regardless

> > > >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that

> no one

> > > >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune

> to lose

> > > >>> their job and/or get sick.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> pam

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> > > >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> > > >>> Pharmacy

> > > >>>

> > > >>> MS Student

> > > >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> > > >>> School of Nursing

> > > >>>

> > > >>> University of Washington

> > > >>> Seattle, WA

> > > >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com> <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >

> > > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Exactly.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Grrrr

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the

> ADA, I am

> > > >>>> still a

> > > >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more

> difficult to

> > > >>>> put

> > > >>>>> things in perspective.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform.

> However

> > > >>>>> the

> > > >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> > > >>>>> getting

> > > >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> > > >>>> breaking news

> > > >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it

> is about

> > > >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> > > >>>>> political

> > > >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional

> organization

> > > >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> > > >>>> other. I am

> > > >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own

> professional

> > > >>>> organization

> > > >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never

> thought

> > > >>>> I would

> > > >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Carol

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to

> try. " ~

> > > >>>> Dolly

> > > >>>>> Parton

> > > >>>>>

January 2, 2010

Pam,

Thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

20 yrs ago when my children were out of college and did not have medical

coverage by their employers, I chose to pay for catastrophic ($2000 deductable)

health insurance for them. I was fortunately in a financial position to do this.

The proposed Government option as I read it is an OPTION. Some of the thread of

this topic seems to believe that the Government option is REQUIREMENT, A

DEMAND.

Again, thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

Madalyn Friedberg, RD CDN

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 7:51:37 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

,

Will you refuse Medicare when you become eligible? Because,

technically, that's socialized medicine. Do you have friends or

relatives in the military? Well, they get socialized medicine. If you

think these programs need to go because they are socialized, how will

you pay for your own healthcare when no longer working and suffer

perhaps from one or two chronic illnesses? If we do nothing now,

healthcare costs in the US will only rise exponentially and there will

be no incentive for improved quality of care.

At this time, a chunk of the cost of the insurance that you'll gladly

pay for your son is also paying for healthcare for the uninsured.

Also, at this point, finding a policy that is affordable for young

adults is incredibly difficult. I know because a few years ago I had

to do that when my daughter was in between finishing college and her

first job had no benefits. The cost was astronomical and the coverage

was bare bones. Depending on where one lives, it can be more or less

difficult to find individual policies.

I understand the desire to not pay for others and the choices that

others make. What makes Democracy so messy sometimes is the debates

that we have to go through to find the option that is best for most,

and to be sure we are considering the needs of those who cannot make

their wishes known. Perhaps this thread of discussion will make us all

think some more, and who knows, perhaps we'll come up with a plan that

works, is affordable, and is least offensive to all. I know we'll

never have 100% agreement on any of this.

Regards,

p

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> The problem with " children " being covered until age 26 is who gets

> to pay for it. Me! I'd rather not. I'll pay for my own son's

> insurance, or he can pay for his own. I don't want you to have to

> pay for his. Slippery slope toward socialism, whether people want to

> hear the word or not.

>

> Dave

>

> Re: Grrrr

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not

> " pushing " a

> > > >>> particular platform. What our professional organization

> would like

> > > >>> is

> > > >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package

> looks like.

> > > >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health

> care

> > > >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the

> same as

> > > >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> > > >>> raising

> > > >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and

> (although I

> > > >>> am

> > > >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes

> for large

> > > >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we

> see and

> > > >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to

> emotional

> > > >>> issues

> > > >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> > > >>> reliable

> > > >>> source.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one

> in the

> > > >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> > > >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That

> we all

> > > >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality,

> regardless

> > > >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that

> no one

> > > >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune

> to lose

> > > >>> their job and/or get sick.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> pam

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> > > >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> > > >>> Pharmacy

> > > >>>

> > > >>> MS Student

> > > >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> > > >>> School of Nursing

> > > >>>

> > > >>> University of Washington

> > > >>> Seattle, WA

> > > >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com> <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >

> > > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Exactly.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Grrrr

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the

> ADA, I am

> > > >>>> still a

> > > >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more

> difficult to

> > > >>>> put

> > > >>>>> things in perspective.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform.

> However

> > > >>>>> the

> > > >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> > > >>>>> getting

> > > >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> > > >>>> breaking news

> > > >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it

> is about

> > > >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> > > >>>>> political

> > > >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional

> organization

> > > >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> > > >>>> other. I am

> > > >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own

> professional

> > > >>>> organization

> > > >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never

> thought

> > > >>>> I would

> > > >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Carol

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to

> try. " ~

> > > >>>> Dolly

> > > >>>>> Parton

> > > >>>>>

January 2, 2010

Pam,

Thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

20 yrs ago when my children were out of college and did not have medical

coverage by their employers, I chose to pay for catastrophic ($2000 deductable)

health insurance for them. I was fortunately in a financial position to do this.

The proposed Government option as I read it is an OPTION. Some of the thread of

this topic seems to believe that the Government option is REQUIREMENT, A

DEMAND.

Again, thank you for your very thoughtful responses.

Madalyn Friedberg, RD CDN

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 7:51:37 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

,

Will you refuse Medicare when you become eligible? Because,

technically, that's socialized medicine. Do you have friends or

relatives in the military? Well, they get socialized medicine. If you

think these programs need to go because they are socialized, how will

you pay for your own healthcare when no longer working and suffer

perhaps from one or two chronic illnesses? If we do nothing now,

healthcare costs in the US will only rise exponentially and there will

be no incentive for improved quality of care.

At this time, a chunk of the cost of the insurance that you'll gladly

pay for your son is also paying for healthcare for the uninsured.

Also, at this point, finding a policy that is affordable for young

adults is incredibly difficult. I know because a few years ago I had

to do that when my daughter was in between finishing college and her

first job had no benefits. The cost was astronomical and the coverage

was bare bones. Depending on where one lives, it can be more or less

difficult to find individual policies.

I understand the desire to not pay for others and the choices that

others make. What makes Democracy so messy sometimes is the debates

that we have to go through to find the option that is best for most,

and to be sure we are considering the needs of those who cannot make

their wishes known. Perhaps this thread of discussion will make us all

think some more, and who knows, perhaps we'll come up with a plan that

works, is affordable, and is least offensive to all. I know we'll

never have 100% agreement on any of this.

Regards,

p

Pam Charney

pcharney@...

> The problem with " children " being covered until age 26 is who gets

> to pay for it. Me! I'd rather not. I'll pay for my own son's

> insurance, or he can pay for his own. I don't want you to have to

> pay for his. Slippery slope toward socialism, whether people want to

> hear the word or not.

>

> Dave

>

> Re: Grrrr

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not

> " pushing " a

> > > >>> particular platform. What our professional organization

> would like

> > > >>> is

> > > >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package

> looks like.

> > > >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health

> care

> > > >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the

> same as

> > > >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> > > >>> raising

> > > >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and

> (although I

> > > >>> am

> > > >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes

> for large

> > > >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we

> see and

> > > >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to

> emotional

> > > >>> issues

> > > >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> > > >>> reliable

> > > >>> source.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one

> in the

> > > >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> > > >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That

> we all

> > > >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality,

> regardless

> > > >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that

> no one

> > > >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune

> to lose

> > > >>> their job and/or get sick.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> pam

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> > > >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> > > >>> Pharmacy

> > > >>>

> > > >>> MS Student

> > > >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> > > >>> School of Nursing

> > > >>>

> > > >>> University of Washington

> > > >>> Seattle, WA

> > > >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com> <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >

> > > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Exactly.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Grrrr

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the

> ADA, I am

> > > >>>> still a

> > > >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more

> difficult to

> > > >>>> put

> > > >>>>> things in perspective.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform.

> However

> > > >>>>> the

> > > >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> > > >>>>> getting

> > > >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> > > >>>> breaking news

> > > >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it

> is about

> > > >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> > > >>>>> political

> > > >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional

> organization

> > > >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> > > >>>> other. I am

> > > >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own

> professional

> > > >>>> organization

> > > >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never

> thought

> > > >>>> I would

> > > >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Carol

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to

> try. " ~

> > > >>>> Dolly

> > > >>>>> Parton

> > > >>>>>

January 2, 2010

Digna,

As I understand the bill, your care would not change unless you decided to

change it.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:17:19 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

Â

I have a semi-HMO/PPO insurance. I have never waited more than 24 hrs for urgent

care needs with my own MD, 1 to 2 weeks for my dentist or optometrist, or 1 to 2

weeks. Nothing major that a good healthcare provider who is very busy would not

have as a delay. I can't complain. i would rather make my own choices and not

have interference or anyone not my personal physican making the referrals or

decisions.

Digna

Grrrr

>>>>>

>>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

>>>> still a

>>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

>>>> put

>>>>> things in perspective.

>>>>>

>>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

>>>>> the

>>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

>>>>> getting

>>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

>>>> breaking news

>>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

>>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

>>>>>

>>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

>>>>> political

>>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

>>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

>>>> other. I am

>>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

>>>> organization

>>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

>>>> I would

>>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

>>>>>

>>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

>>>>>

>>>>> Carol

>>>>>

>>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

>>>>>

>>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

>>>> Dolly

>>>>> Parton

>>>>>

January 2, 2010

Digna,

As I understand the bill, your care would not change unless you decided to

change it.

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa

Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:17:19 PM

Subject: Re: Grrrr

Â

I have a semi-HMO/PPO insurance. I have never waited more than 24 hrs for urgent

care needs with my own MD, 1 to 2 weeks for my dentist or optometrist, or 1 to 2

weeks. Nothing major that a good healthcare provider who is very busy would not

have as a delay. I can't complain. i would rather make my own choices and not

have interference or anyone not my personal physican making the referrals or

decisions.

Digna

Grrrr

>>>>>

>>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

>>>> still a

>>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

>>>> put

>>>>> things in perspective.

>>>>>

>>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

>>>>> the

>>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

>>>>> getting

>>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

>>>> breaking news

>>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

>>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

>>>>>

>>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

>>>>> political

>>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

>>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

>>>> other. I am

>>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

>>>> organization

>>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

>>>> I would

>>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

>>>>>

>>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

>>>>>

>>>>> Carol

>>>>>

>>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

>>>>>

>>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

>>>> Dolly

>>>>> Parton

>>>>>

January 2, 2010

Merav,

I was recently rear ended by an SUV driver who was on her cell phone (with 4

little children in the SUV) if not for NYS mandatory insurance I might have been

out of pocket for the many thousands of dollars that it cost to repair my car,

fortunately no one in my car was hurt, the SUV had its front end demolished and

some of the children hurt.

How can you compare this requirement to Health Care Coverage?

Madalyn

________________________________

To: rd-usa <rd-usa >

Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 9:37:24 AM

Subject: RE: Grrrr

I hope you are right too.Just as an FYI - at least in the state of NY - we are

required to have an auto insurance. If we don't - we MUST surrender the vehicle

plates and if we don't do that - DVM will suspend your driver license and

registration indefinitely!. NO dealer will sell you a car without having the

auto insurance ID Card faxed to you and if you cancel it later the insurance

company will inform DMV and above action will take place.While I can agree with

the requirement and actions regarding auto insurance - bc you don't just

insure yourself, but you are also liable, potentially, G-d forbid, to other

party and it is one thing if you don't care about how you pay your bills if you

survive a crash, but its another when you deny full responsibility to the 3rd

party that was involved in the accident.On the other hand - with health

insurance - it is definitely better to all to be healthy and not need one, but

it is better to have one, just in

case.... so if someone chooses not to have one, I am OK with that, I think we

are entitled to choose how we treat ourselves, I think we are the only ones who

are responsible for ourselves and no one should force us otherwise. even if that

means that all I eat is Mcs. BUT - if I choose not to have health

insurance, then when I get that heart attack at 40, I should be able to pay

every penny of my medical bills out of pocket, and it should be my

responsibility ONLY, not your. And that is different if I want health insurance

but cannot afford one. that's a whole different discussion. For those who cannot

afford - get the one that your state offers (In NYS we do have some coverage,

at affordable cost, MetroPlus, for ppl under 65) or the Gov provides. And that's

exactly what I want - I want the Gov to offer an affordable coverage for those

who cant afford the private ones, but don't force the Gov plan on all of us.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: margie@...

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:00:09 -0800

Subject: Re: Grrrr

I've been keeping up, roughly, with this conversation and am quite

interested to hear that the views that this household hold are, for the

most part, pretty in line with what I'm reading here. I write this not

to stir things up, and I respect anyone's point of view. And I usually

don't share much of mine when it comes to politics, since we KNOW it

stirs too much anger, etc, up. But here I go....

My husband has been very worried by what he sees happening in our

country since the change in leadership, feeling that too many of our

rights are being taken away. I, on the other hand, have great faith that

no matter how far things swing to the left, they will eventually swing

back to the right, because this is how our government system has been

created. I do hope I'm right... I still imagine that one day our leaders

will actually work for the good of the people (yea, I know, pipe dreams,

but I'm a dreamer).

Here's why I decided to write, though:

I just finished watching an amazing set of videos that were produced in

the 1940's by the US military, called " why we fight " . These were 7 films

to explain to the incoming servicemen why they were fighting in WWII,

starting with what started in Japan, Italy and Germany. A key they

pointed out was how the first step each of these countries took was

taking away simple, and sometimes subtle, rights. I have never seen such

a description of how the 'Axis' developed before, and it was quite

striking. Naturally, there were parts that my husband was saying, " gee,

does that sound familiar? " in relation to simple things going on in our

country. I can't argue with him. I just hope he's wrong. I have to

believe he's wrong and that our system will prevail. It bothers me

though, when our elected officials ignore the population and move

towards their own agendas. I know that's been going on since the

beginning of this country, and although some say it's worse than it's

ever been, I'm not sure that people even 75 years ago weren't saying

exactly the same thing.

So, what's my point? Just that no matter what side of the political

spectrum you're on, just keep a watch; we are a country of individual

rights and freedoms. Even with such things as auto insurance, sure, we

are required to have it, but we don't get fined for not having it. Why

should things be different with health insurance, and if people do NOT

pay their fines, then what?

Margie

Marjorie Geiser, MBA, RD, NSCA-CPT

Chair-Elect, Nutrition Entrepreneurs DPG #30

Start the business of your dreams: Just Jump!

http://www.meg-enterprises.com

http://facebook.com/meg.enterprises

Digna Cassens wrote:

>

> I don't believe in offending others. I do believe in freedom of speech. I

> also believe that our president(s) no matter who they are or what party

> they've belonged to, deserve the respect that a head of a country (is it

> called head of state?) deserves. If we don't, then who else will? Other

> countries surely won't and we become the laughing stock and easy

> targets for

> everyone, as we have.

>

> Digna

>

> Grrrr

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

> > >>>> still a

> > >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

> > >>>> put

> > >>>>> things in perspective.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

> > >>>>> the

> > >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> > >>>>> getting

> > >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> > >>>> breaking news

> > >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

> > >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> > >>>>> political

> > >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

> > >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> > >>>> other. I am

> > >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

> > >>>> organization

> > >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

> > >>>> I would

> > >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Carol

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

> > >>>> Dolly

> > >>>>> Parton

> > >>>>>

January 2, 2010