Re: Grrrr

December 31, 2009

when a health insurance co flys a blimp or sponsors the Olympics something

is wrong. They are gouging us really gouging us (and I was a state employee

and have ins free) but for my kids it's absolutely unaffordable. The

congress has great ins for free.

December 31, 2009

Wow, I'm pretty offended here. I thought this list serve was for all RD's,

even those that are democrats. I am proud to be a democrat, voted for

President Obama. Do I like everything in the health bill?, 'no'. I wish it

didn't give so much business/money to the already sucky insurance companies

that are out there. I can't believe some of the things you guys were

writing here for everyone to believe on a somewhat professional list serve

or so I thought. Some of your opinions about our president and the health

reform, I wouldn't even let my family read on facebook? I would keep them

to myself, b/c I understand that everyone has a right to their beliefs and

values.

and FWIW, here is the definition of socialism. -a theory or system of

social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control

of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc.

I think people often mistake it for communism. Alot of the things in our

country are socialist ie - police, fire, libraries, the military, schools.

It doesn't keep people from using those services....

>

> Merav,

>

> I will only respond to one of your comments. The 3-4 month wait

> happened when going outside the HMO network. A referral was requested

> and received from the HMO within 24 hours. When the outside providers

> were contacted, it took them 3 days to verify that the HMO would

> indeed pay, then once the outside provider allowed the patient to

> schedule the appointment (no appointments are scheduled unless there

> is proof of payment, up front), there was a 3-4 month wait to see the

> provider. When appointments are made with providers within the HMO,

> there is typically a 1-2 week wait, at most.

>

> My warmest regards to all for a healthy and happy new year,

>

> pam

>

> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> Affiliate Associate Professor

> Pharmacy

>

> MS Student

> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> School of Nursing

>

> University of Washington

> Seattle, WA

> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

>

> >

> > Let me respond to each of your point:

> >

> > 1. While many of us might not be covered for catasrophic, we will be

> > covered even less with Gov health care. Those who wait for ENT or

> > Endo for 3-4 months are likely having an HMO insurance. Even GHI has

> > few options: PPO, HMO and EPO but at least you have a choice and

> > you choose according to yourt means and needs. So why I will have to

> > give up my great PPO, which allows me to see an ortho and get a knee

> > orthoscopy within 2 weeks, just for someone to decide that I have to

> > have something less.

> >

> > 2. level of care - I can tell you that in Israel, in general, the

> > healthcare is very good. many doctors here in the US even came and

> > graduated in Israel or did fellowship there. Talking about liver

> > transplant - Hadasah Ein karem, one of the best in the Middle East

> > and considered a very respectful med center in Europe, for that

> > precidure alone. I had the pleasure to work with that surgeoun while

> > on my first internship back then. I hope I will never need him, for

> > myself or loved ones, but if I do - I will not hesiste to be taken

> > under his care. BUT, with all that said - if I would not have a

> > supplemental insurance - I might have to wait longer to have the

> > ability for his great consult.

> >

> > When the socialized health care stated/reformed in israel many

> > privet MD-groups formed to allow better and quicker access, paid by

> > with cash or supplemental insurance. It is just a fact and it does

> > create 2 classes of health care and this will happen here once we

> > are all forced for the Gov bill.

> >

> > 3. I am well aware that every healthcare insurer is having a team,

> > usually made of MDs, or RNs, who decide and approve or

> > disapprove.BUT, according to my PCP, and per my own experiance -

> > all is doen sufficiently. Before my knee orth - I got an MRI

> > approval by the health insureance within 24hrs, appointmnet within

> > 72 hrs and Sx 2 weeks later. It is just a question of quantity.

> > When you have milion memebrs, let say, that you need to check their

> > MDs claims/requests for tests - it will take a " X " time to do so.

> > When you ahve 10 milion to review - it will take 10X longer. Pure

> > math. yes, you can say they will employ more, great, we need more

> > jobs, but again - these jobs are Gov jobs, which could be great but

> > we are loosing more hold of our capitalist country. No system is

> > perfect, but why break everything to the ground and re-invent the

> > wheel? Why not correct what is not good, like the fact that many

> > leagal Americans don't have any health covergae and therefore go to

> > ER for every little thing.

> >

> > as far as benefiting the share holders - true and they are the ones

> > who ahve interst not only in their dividends but also in the

> > contiuum of their company, so they ahve an interst that the ones

> > insured, you and I, will get the best service b/c if we are not

> > happy, we could choose another carrier. When it is Gov run, or

> > controlled, we will not ahve any choice. happy or not with your

> > carrier or provider - too bad. You are stuck.

> >

> > 4. I said it before and I will say it again. I am all for providing

> > coverage to all and as Kathy said - to all legal Americans. But why

> > that should mean that we give up a good coverage by PPO plans that

> > some of us are lucky to be provided by our employers? Why give up

> > Mayo Clinic system - who are not just one of the best in the

> > Americas but in the world. Mayo's name goes around the globe. not

> > for nothig.

> >

> > That will be very intersting what and how it will affect us, as RDs.

> > Will we be considred as preventive and non-invasive care and

> > therfore more MNT will be approved? or Chiroprators/ MDs and RNs

> > will provide nutritional care and charge for it b/c not all states

> > have licensure (but this is a whole diferent discussion)? I did not

> > form an oppinion about this one. I am not sure....

> >

> > Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN

> >

> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >

> > To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> > From: pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:46:36 -0800

> > Subject: Re: Grrrr

> >

> > Merav,

> >

> > I've spent the past year studying health care in various areas of the

> > world, so am familiar with the issues you discuss. This discussion is

> > far beyond the forum we have here. Suffice it to say that health care

> > is rationed in the US now, although it's the elephant in the room

> > here, probably because that rationing is economic. You can get a liver

> > transplant tomorrow if you like, as long as you pay in cash.

> > Otherwise, you cannot even be evaluated by a transplant team unless

> > there is sufficient evidence of ability to pay. Many who think they

> > have health insurance for catastrophic illness are shocked to find out

> > that their insurer will not pay for life-saving therapies.

> > Additionally, it is not uncommon for individuals in the US who need

> > subspecialty care to have to wait. I know folks who wait up to 4

> > months for endocrinologist visits, 3 months for ENT, etc. And these

> > are folks who HAVE insurance through their employer.

> >

> > Your statement that quality of care is reduced in nations that have

> > public options for healthcare is flat out wrong. The US is not even in

> > the top 10 when it comes to health care outcomes. About half of the

> > folks with diabetes in this country do not receive care meeting

> > standards set by the ADiabA. There are many, many other areas where we

> > fall short.

> >

> > Also, it is patently wrong that President Obama is " stepping in " to

> > make decisions regarding your health care. Are you comfortable now

> > with your insurer making those decisions instead? Because those

> > decisions made by the insurers are purely for economic reasons, and

> > not with the goal to provide care for everyone. Rather, as Pat

> > pointed out, the economics now are to benefit the share holders of the

> > insurer.

> >

> > It's been said that no one is for major health reform until they

> > experience the horrific reality of a bill for health care that exceeds

> > their ability to pay. Again, my wish is for no one to experience this.

> > As human beings, we should all have access to health care.

> >

> > Regards,

> > pam

> >

> > Pam Charney

> > pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >

> >>

> >> Dear Pam,

> >>

> >> When you say believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear -

> >> is a great notion but also delivers a message that no one has the

> >> right information but you. At least this is a hidden message that I

> >> get. Maybe it’s me.

> >>

> >> Let me tell you a thing or two about nationalized/socialized health

> >> care, if you look at countries that have it (Canada, UK, Russia, and

> >> Israel -where I am from):

> >>

> >> 1. Access is granted to all - great, and I am all for it.

> >>

> >> 2. every little blood test, every x-ray (unless in ER), MRI or CT

> >> scan needs approval before they could be performed and to get

> >> approved takes sometimes 2-3 weeks, sometimes 2-3 months. I agree

> >> that some doctors are over-testing, but it due to defensive

> >> medicine, they all want to make sure they cover all bases and beyond

> >> so they are protected from future law suites. This is something we

> >> have to blame our society, at least in part, b/c ppl are coming to

> >> hospitals with a mind set of " where and what could I sue you for " .

> >> I don't want anyone but my doctor to make a decision about my health

> >> care and now Mr. Obama is stepping in and I don't like it.

> >>

> >> 3. Quality of care is reduced. Why? Because the good doctors don't

> >> want to participate in the Gov programs b/c they are getting hard

> >> time ordering tests and they will be the ones being held liable if a

> >> pt dies while waiting for approval. They don't like the bureaucracy

> >> that comes with it and therefore not only choose to be out of it but

> >> they can afford it b/c the rich pts will come anyhow.

> >>

> >> My father had to wait 3-4 months for a simple cataract Sx. Not a

> >> life threatening, but a quality of life, simple, ambulatory

> >> procedure, as we all know.

> >>

> >> My aunt had to pay 1500 IS (Israeli Shekels, about $375) to get an

> >> appointment for a cardiac procedure in 2 weeks. She was able to get

> >> it in 2 wks because she had a supplemental insurance, private

> >> insurance, on top of the Gov one. If she didn't have the means to

> >> pay for it ($375 is not cheep) - she would have gotten an

> >> appointment 3 month later. And I am talking about a cardiac

> >> procedure. I don't know the name of the procedure in English, since

> >> they gave me the term in Hebrew, and it is a life threatening

> >> condition. Basically, she as an un-controlled A. fib and the only

> >> options, after medications didn't help, are this procedure or a

> >> pacemaker.

> >>

> >> I have colleagues and other co-workers, some of them are MDs, who

> >> came to the US from the previously USSR - they are all very much

> >> against the Gov health plan. They all say the same - level of care

> >> is less, lines are longer and everything needs approval prior to

> >> providing care.

> >>

> >> and again, the better doctors prefer or may prefer not take the Gov

> >> insurance and if they do - they will give priority to paying/

> >> private pts. When ppl are able and paying out of pocket, they

> >> expect, and rightfully so, a better and quicker service.

> >>

> >> So it will create a 2-class health care.

> >>

> >> My problem is that by forcing all of us to use the Gov health plan,

> >> those of us who are lucky to be not only employed, but also fully

> >> covered with good insurance, may be forced to either pay taxes on

> >> our health coverage (depends how much is it, but with the inflation

> >> and recession - many already living pay-check to pay check so any

> >> increase in taxes means reduced net-income), or our employers will

> >> stop providing us with health coverage , after all - why should they

> >> if the Gov gives something else for free (free to the employer),

> >> they wouldn't care that is not as good.

> >>

> >> I am all for covering the uninsured, but why does it have to be on

> >> my expense, why do I have to potentially lose my current coverage

> >> for the sake of someone who doesn't, why my level of care should be

> >> deteriorated in order to improve someone else's. That's socialism

> >> and I did not vote for it.

> >>

> >> What we needed is a plan that allows the uninsured to be covered by

> >> Gov health plan, but to say that this plan is offered ONLY to those

> >> who are unemployed and not provided health coverage. This way - you

> >> may still need some tax increase to cover that bill, but it will be

> >> less then covering all of us. And once you get employed - you should

> >> have coverage by your employer. Businesses should get tax credit or

> >> refund for providing health care. This way you get two things:

> >>

> >> 1. Employers will have to provide a better health coverage then the

> >> " basic " Gov plan which will lead to #2: ppl would want to work

> >> because they will know they will be having access to better health

> >> care/coverage. Unlike now - many ppl are discouraged to seek work bc

> >> the pay is so low, so " why bother " and depends on the state you are,

> >> you get financial aid from the Gov and health care to some level (or

> >> go to the ER for every little UTI). BUt if we all get the same

> >> coverage, and some ppl in have the mentality to be unemployed bc

> >> sitting at home and collecting benefits is better in their mind,

> >> from working, maybe, just maybe, a knowledge that you can get a

> >> better health coverage when employed, might encourage them to take a

> >> job, for less pay, but more benefits.

> >>

> >> HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody.

> >>

> >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN

> >>

> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >>

> >>> To: rd-usa <rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

> >>> From: pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >>> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:52:54 -0800

> >>> Subject: Re: Grrrr

> >>>

> >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not " pushing " a

> >>> particular platform. What our professional organization would like

> >>> is

> >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package looks like.

> >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health care

> >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> >>>

> >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the same as

> >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> >>> raising

> >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and (although I

> >>> am

> >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes for large

> >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we see and

> >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to emotional

> >>> issues

> >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> >>> reliable

> >>> source.

> >>>

> >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one in the

> >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That we all

> >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality, regardless

> >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that no one

> >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune to lose

> >>> their job and/or get sick.

> >>>

> >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> >>>

> >>> pam

> >>>

> >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> >>> Pharmacy

> >>>

> >>> MS Student

> >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> >>> School of Nursing

> >>>

> >>> University of Washington

> >>> Seattle, WA

> >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> >>>

> >>>> Exactly.

> >>>>

> >>>> Grrrr

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

> >>>> still a

> >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

> >>>> put

> >>>>> things in perspective.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

> >>>>> the

> >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> >>>>> getting

> >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> >>>> breaking news

> >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

> >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> >>>>> political

> >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

> >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> >>>> other. I am

> >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

> >>>> organization

> >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

> >>>> I would

> >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Carol

> >>>>>

> >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

> >>>> Dolly

> >>>>> Parton

> >>>>>

December 31, 2009

It's all about the Constitution. If you don't understand the Constitution and

why it was written, you don't understand socialism. Why be offended? A good

point has been made about being willing to hear both sides and agreeing to

disagree. I hope we can agree on the Constitution. If not, well the Constitution

is what made America great. And government intruding into the free market is

unconstitutional. Just because it is done, doesn't mean it's good for the

American way of freedom and greatness that comes from it. (Defense of the nation

is clearly Constitutional.) Why would people be unwilling to speak out against

the president? That's part of what made America great. You know, the right to

free speech in regard to government? Thank God our forefathers didn't " keep it

to themselves " . If everyone has a right to their beliefs and values, they have a

right to share them with others. No one has a " right " not to be offended by

opposing views. They do have a right not to listen.

Re: Grrrr

> >>>

> >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not " pushing " a

> >>> particular platform. What our professional organization would like

> >>> is

> >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package looks like.

> >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health care

> >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> >>>

> >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the same as

> >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> >>> raising

> >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and (although I

> >>> am

> >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes for large

> >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we see and

> >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to emotional

> >>> issues

> >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> >>> reliable

> >>> source.

> >>>

> >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one in the

> >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That we all

> >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality, regardless

> >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that no one

> >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune to lose

> >>> their job and/or get sick.

> >>>

> >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> >>>

> >>> pam

> >>>

> >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> >>> Pharmacy

> >>>

> >>> MS Student

> >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> >>> School of Nursing

> >>>

> >>> University of Washington

> >>> Seattle, WA

> >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com>

> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> >>>

> >>>> Exactly.

> >>>>

> >>>> Grrrr

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

> >>>> still a

> >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

> >>>> put

> >>>>> things in perspective.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

> >>>>> the

> >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> >>>>> getting

> >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> >>>> breaking news

> >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

> >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> >>>>> political

> >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

> >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> >>>> other. I am

> >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

> >>>> organization

> >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

> >>>> I would

> >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Carol

> >>>>>

> >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

> >>>> Dolly

> >>>>> Parton

> >>>>>

December 31, 2009

I'm offended b/c of all the socialist-democratic party hahahah stuff. The

first 6-7 messages are everyone slamming those opinions (which there may

actually be some of those people on this listserve.) And when I've taken

part in this discussion and tried to voice my " opposing " viewpoint, I get 5+

people essentially moaning about the so-called gov't takeover,

blahblahlbah... instead of nice healthy discussion.

I'm all for a discussion for what's actually in the bill. For one thing, I

like that my son will be covered on my insurance until he's 27. That way

he can get out of college and find a job that's right for him, not hurry up

and find one that has the best insurance per se.

>

> It's all about the Constitution. If you don't understand the Constitution

> and why it was written, you don't understand socialism. Why be offended? A

> good point has been made about being willing to hear both sides and agreeing

> to disagree. I hope we can agree on the Constitution. If not, well the

> Constitution is what made America great. And government intruding into the

> free market is unconstitutional. Just because it is done, doesn't mean it's

> good for the American way of freedom and greatness that comes from it.

> (Defense of the nation is clearly Constitutional.) Why would people be

> unwilling to speak out against the president? That's part of what made

> America great. You know, the right to free speech in regard to government?

> Thank God our forefathers didn't " keep it to themselves " . If everyone has a

> right to their beliefs and values, they have a right to share them with

> others. No one has a " right " not to be offended by opposing views. They do

> have a right not to listen.

>

> Re: Grrrr

> > >>>

> > >>> I'd like to clarify a couple statements. ADA is not " pushing " a

> > >>> particular platform. What our professional organization would like

> > >>> is

> > >>> for the RD to be included in whatever the reform package looks like.

> > >>> I'm sure we'd all like to be recognized as competent health care

> > >>> providers regardless of who is paying.

> > >>>

> > >>> As for who is paying, I'd venture to guess, it will be the same as

> > >>> previously; all of us. At this point there is some talk about

> > >>> raising

> > >>> taxes, but only for the very highest income levels, and (although I

> > >>> am

> > >>> not entirely sure on this one), some of the business taxes for large

> > >>> employers. Remember that we should believe half of what we see and

> > >>> none of what we " hear " , particularly when it comes to emotional

> > >>> issues

> > >>> such as this one. Please try to vet what you " hear " through a

> > >>> reliable

> > >>> source.

> > >>>

> > >>> Here is my own personal wish for health reform; that no one in the

> > >>> United States has to go to bed worrying about how to pay for

> > >>> medication, a Dr's visit, or their next RD appointment. That we all

> > >>> have access to healthcare that is of the highest quality, regardless

> > >>> of our financial and employment situation. And finally, that no one

> > >>> faces financial ruin simply because they had the misfortune to lose

> > >>> their job and/or get sick.

> > >>>

> > >>> Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year,

> > >>>

> > >>> pam

> > >>>

> > >>> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> > >>> Affiliate Associate Professor

> > >>> Pharmacy

> > >>>

> > >>> MS Student

> > >>> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> > >>> School of Nursing

> > >>>

> > >>> University of Washington

> > >>> Seattle, WA

> > >>> pcharney@... <pcharney%40mac.com> <pcharney%40mac.com>

>

> > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> > >>>

> > >>>> Exactly.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Grrrr

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Because I value one particular practice group within the ADA, I am

> > >>>> still a

> > >>>>> member. I tell you what, it is getting more and more difficult to

> > >>>> put

> > >>>>> things in perspective.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> We all have deferring opinions about healthcare reform. However

> > >>>>> the

> > >>>>> pressure to support legislation - no matter your opinion is

> > >>>>> getting

> > >>>>> increasingly more difficult to ignore. If I get more " Late-

> > >>>> breaking news

> > >>>>> from the ADA " subject line emails inly to open to see it is about

> > >>>>> healthcare reform I am going to be pushed over the edge.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I am an independent voter, I do not align myself with any

> > >>>>> political

> > >>>>> party. I am so frustrated that our own professional organization

> > >>>>> continously trends more towards one political party than the

> > >>>> other. I am

> > >>>>> so very close of washing my hands of my very own professional

> > >>>> organization

> > >>>>> and quite frankly I am finding this rather shocking. Never thought

> > >>>> I would

> > >>>>> be where I am my feelings about the ADA.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I know, I am just venting. However I am quite frustrated.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Carol

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> (sent via Blackberry)

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> " You'll never do a whole lot unless you're brave enough to try. " ~

> > >>>> Dolly

> > >>>>> Parton

> > >>>>>

December 31, 2009

Thanks, . well said.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

To: rd-usa

From: drowell@...

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:07:00 -0700

Subject: RE: Grrrr

It's all about the Constitution. If you don't understand the Constitution

and why it was written, you don't understand socialism. Why be offended? A good