Re: Andy Please help ! I'm so frustrated and disappointed.

[Guest guest]

the l-glutathione could be what is causing the stimming. it does it to my

son. Also, have you checked fpr parasites, yeast and bacteria. All of these

can be made worse from chelation and mask any improvements.

karen w

[Guest guest]

Please specify what dose timing you are using.

If I understand Andy on this (which I may not!) I think

that you one can " get a lot of mercury out " while still

causing enough redistribution to cause no progress or

negative results.

Moria

At 03:44 PM 2/18/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

>Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

>Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

>

>They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

>for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

>improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from DMSA,

>we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO improvements

>just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the test

>results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

>

>1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

>1 - 200IU Vit. E

>1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

>1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

>1 - B-50 Complex

>1 - CQ-10

>1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

>1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

>2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

>

>He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6 months.

>Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing. I

>feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

>chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

>I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to mop

>up mercury??

>

>Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

>Dianna

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

-We use 25mg of ALA every 4 hours from Friday at 5pm to Sunday at 9

pm. every 11 days.

- In @y..., Moria <moriam@e...> wrote:

> Please specify what dose timing you are using.

> If I understand Andy on this (which I may not!) I think

> that you one can " get a lot of mercury out " while still

> causing enough redistribution to cause no progress or

> negative results.

>

> Moria

>

> At 03:44 PM 2/18/2002 -0000, you wrote:

> >

> >Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

> >Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

> >Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

> >

> >They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

> >for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

> >improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from

DMSA,

> >we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO

improvements

> >just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the

test

> >results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

> >

> >1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

> >1 - 200IU Vit. E

> >1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

> >1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

> >1 - B-50 Complex

> >1 - CQ-10

> >1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

> >1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

> >2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

> >

> >He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6

months.

> >Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing.

I

> >feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

> >chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

> >I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to

mop

> >up mercury??

> >

> >Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> >Dianna

> >

> >

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Oral L-glutathione may cause problems. It is used in bakery to

produce yeast. I tried it with my son, and he had yeast symptoms

immediately. You may want to substitute it with glutathione lotion

from Kirkman.

Best wishes,

Margaret

>

> Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

> Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

> Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

>

> They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

> for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

> improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from

DMSA,

> we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO

improvements

> just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the

test

> results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

>

> 1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

> 1 - 200IU Vit. E

> 1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

> 1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

> 1 - B-50 Complex

> 1 - CQ-10

> 1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

> 1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

> 2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

>

> He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6

months.

> Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing. I

> feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

> chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

> I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to

mop

> up mercury??

>

> Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> Dianna

[Guest guest]

> > Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing.

> >

> > Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> > Dianna

What chelation schedule are you using? If you haven't tried the every

3-4 hour day and night schedule, do give it a try at least once.

Don't throw in the towel. Just go back a step or two and re-open the

question of what he has. Most children nowadays who are autistic are

actually mercury toxic, but not all of them. Maybe you have one of

the ones with a different cause - which of course requires a different

treat

[Guest guest]

--

Andy,

We use the every 4 hour 3/11 schedule, always have. We know he is

mercury toxic , and thats why not seeing any improvements with detox

is so frustrating, specially when everyone else seems to get such

great results here. He also showed high bismuth on his DDI hair test

along with Mercury. Everything I find about Bismuth isn't a toxic

matter to worry about. So what other test is there to run. We've ran

alot as you can see, from previous post.

Thanks,

Dianna

In @y..., " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@a...> wrote:

> > > Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and

nothing.

> > >

> > > Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> > > Dianna

>

> What chelation schedule are you using? If you haven't tried the

every

> 3-4 hour day and night schedule, do give it a try at least once.

>

> Don't throw in the towel. Just go back a step or two and re-open

the

> question of what he has. Most children nowadays who are autistic

are

> actually mercury toxic, but not all of them. Maybe you have one of

> the ones with a different cause - which of course requires a

different

> treat

[Guest guest]

Did you treat the gut first? If not, chelating evidently can cause more

problems by increasing yeast, etc. Check out the DAN manual. Good luck.

[ ] Andy Please help ! I'm so frustrated and

disappointed.

>

> Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

> Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

> Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

>

> They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

> for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

> improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from DMSA,

> we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO improvements

> just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the test

> results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

>

> 1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

> 1 - 200IU Vit. E

> 1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

> 1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

> 1 - B-50 Complex

> 1 - CQ-10

> 1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

> 1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

> 2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

>

> He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6 months.

> Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing. I

> feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

> chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

> I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to mop

> up mercury??

>

> Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> Dianna

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Did you treat the gut first? If not, chelating evidently can cause

more

> problems by increasing yeast, etc. Check out the DAN manual.

This does not follow.

Using an improper and harmful chelation regime and having one of the

ways it hurts the kids be to make their intestinal flora go wild does

NOT in any way show that proper chelation will do this.

> Good luck.

> [ ] Andy Please help ! I'm so frustrated and

> disappointed.

>

>

> >

> > Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

> > Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

> > Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

> >

> > They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

> > for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

> > improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from

DMSA,

> > we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO

improvements

> > just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the

test

> > results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

> >

> > 1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

> > 1 - 200IU Vit. E

> > 1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

> > 1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

> > 1 - B-50 Complex

> > 1 - CQ-10

> > 1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

> > 1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

> > 2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

> >

> > He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6

months.

> > Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing.

I

> > feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

> > chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

> > I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to

mop

> > up mercury??

> >

> > Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> > Dianna

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

> We use the every 4 hour 3/11 schedule, always have. You might try

the every 3 during waking hours variation and see if it helps.

> We know he is mercury toxic ,

How do you know this?

> and thats why not seeing any improvements with detox

> is so frustrating, specially when everyone else seems to get such

> great results here.

Which again brings me back to how it is you know he is mercury toxic?

> He also showed high bismuth on his DDI hair test

> along with Mercury. Everything I find about Bismuth isn't a toxic

> matter to worry about. So what other test is there to run. We've

ran

> alot as you can see, from previous post.

> Thanks,

>

> Dian

[Guest guest]

Dear Andy,

How do we know he is mercury toxic.

Hair Elements Test from DDI

Mercury 0.9 reference Range,<0.4 yellow range

Essential Elements all over the place

Urine toxic elements test with DMSA pulled out 7.8,

7.1,5.8,.l.8,5.6,2.7,0.7,4.6,4.6,l.4, of mercury with a reference

range of < 3.

Would you think he's mercury toxic with those results, we do? He

sure has all the symptoms to go along with it as well.

Thanks,

Dianna

-- In @y..., " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@a...> wrote:

> > We use the every 4 hour 3/11 schedule, always have. You might

try

> the every 3 during waking hours variation and see if it helps.

> > We know he is mercury toxic ,

>

> How do you know this?

>

> > and thats why not seeing any improvements with detox

> > is so frustrating, specially when everyone else seems to get such

> > great results here.

>

> Which again brings me back to how it is you know he is mercury

toxic?

>

> > He also showed high bismuth on his DDI hair test

> > along with Mercury. Everything I find about Bismuth isn't a toxic

> > matter to worry about. So what other test is there to run. We've

> ran

> > alot as you can see, from previous post.

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Dian

[Guest guest]

-

Test results don't show any gut problems, urine or stool.

-- In @y..., " Kathy McKinstry " <KPGFMS@p...> wrote:

> Did you treat the gut first? If not, chelating evidently can cause

more

> problems by increasing yeast, etc. Check out the DAN manual. Good

luck.

> [ ] Andy Please help ! I'm so frustrated and

> disappointed.

>

>

> >

> > Well we've done all the test. DDI Hair,Great Plains Organic Acid,

> > Immune Def. Panel, IgG , Allergy Test.Great Smokies Stool

> > Analysis, and numerous urine Toxic Metals after DMSA.

> >

> > They definetly show mercury as a problem, so we chelated with DMSA

> > for 12 rounds and pulled mercury and other metals out. No

> > improvements just more stimming. After getting red spots from

DMSA,

> > we started with 25mg of ALA, have gone thru 3 rounds, NO

improvements

> > just more hair twisting, smelling fingers etc.. Because of the

test

> > results this is what my son is currently taking daily.

> >

> > 1 -1000 mg Pro EPA

> > 1 - 200IU Vit. E

> > 1 - Evening Primrose Oil 500 MG

> > 1 - Twinlab Animal Friends Multi-Vit and Minerals

> > 1 - B-50 Complex

> > 1 - CQ-10

> > 1 - Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid

> > 1 - Reduced L-Glutathione 100mg

> > 2- Probiotics @ Bedtime

> >

> > He also takes enzymes with each meal. Also, we were GFCF for 6

months.

> > Still NO IMPROVEMENTS, He's not worse, but all this and nothing.

I

> > feel like we're just beating our heads here. Have we given ALA a

> > chance yet? The Doc also has us giving him L-Glutathione with ALA

> > I guess because he can't take DMSA so this is an alternative???to

mop

> > up mercury??

> >

> > Frustrated and ready to throw in the towel!

> > Dianna

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

>How do we know he is mercury toxic.

>Hair Elements Test from DDI

>Mercury 0.9 reference Range,<0.4 yellow range

>Essential Elements all over the place

>Urine toxic elements test with DMSA pulled out 7.8,

>7.1,5.8,.l.8,5.6,2.7,0.7,4.6,4.6,l.4, of mercury with a reference

>range of < 3.

>

>Would you think he's mercury toxic with those results, we do? He

>sure has all the symptoms to go along with it as well.

Dear Dianna,

Please read the following, regarding determining probable toxicity:

/files/Counting%2BRules

See if this makes sense.

Moria

[Guest guest]

-It says that some medical test may not show mercury in hair, urine,

ect. My son's test did. And he meets the essential elements

requirement that indicates mercury toxic. Are you trying to tell me

he still may not be toxic. I don't understand the point your trying

to make.

-- In @y..., Moria <moriam@e...> wrote:

> >How do we know he is mercury toxic.

> >Hair Elements Test from DDI

> >Mercury 0.9 reference Range,<0.4 yellow range

> >Essential Elements all over the place

> >Urine toxic elements test with DMSA pulled out 7.8,

> >7.1,5.8,.l.8,5.6,2.7,0.7,4.6,4.6,l.4, of mercury with a reference

> >range of < 3.

> >

> >Would you think he's mercury toxic with those results, we do? He

> >sure has all the symptoms to go along with it as well.

>

>

> Dear Dianna,

>

> Please read the following, regarding determining probable toxicity:

> /files/Counting%2BRules

>

> See if this makes sense.

>

> Moria

[Guest guest]

>-It says that some medical test may not show mercury in hair, urine,

>ect. My son's test did. And he meets the essential elements

>requirement that indicates mercury toxic. Are you trying to tell me

>he still may not be toxic. I don't understand the point your trying

>to make.

sorry, not trying to be obtuse!

your mercury nubmer is " yellow " which is high but not clearly so. Andy

thinks red is clear and yellow is still fishy but not difinitive. This

actually surprised me, so I remember it.

my point was that I couldn't tell from the info you sent whether you

knew about the counting rules, so I was suggesting reading about them

if you didn't. On rereading your note I now see sentence " essential

elements all over the place " . I, personally, would never comment on

such a statement, since it is not clear what it means (it is inexact).

I had missed that stmt the first time. If I'd seen it I probably would

have not responded at all. anyway, my point was NOT about how you

interpreted the test results w/counting rules--- I don't know about

that, I only know what you have said. Which, now, includes that your

son has abnormal mineral transport (what " counting rules " tests for).

I personally treat the counting rules as significant indicator, but

this is just my opinion.

hope this is more clear.

Moria

>

>

>

>

>-- In @y..., Moria <moriam@e...> wrote:

>> >How do we know he is mercury toxic.

>> >Hair Elements Test from DDI

>> >Mercury 0.9 reference Range,<0.4 yellow range

>> >Essential Elements all over the place

>> >Urine toxic elements test with DMSA pulled out 7.8,

>> >7.1,5.8,.l.8,5.6,2.7,0.7,4.6,4.6,l.4, of mercury with a reference

>> >range of < 3.

>> >

>> >Would you think he's mercury toxic with those results, we do? He

>> >sure has all the symptoms to go along with it as well.

>>

>>

>> Dear Dianna,

>>

>> Please read the following, regarding determining probable toxicity:

>> /files/Counting%2BRules

>>

>> See if this makes sense.

>>

>> Moria

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> your mercury nubmer is " yellow " which is high but not clearly so.

Andy

> thinks red is clear and yellow is still fishy but not difinitive.

This

> actually surprised me, so I remember it.

Yellow means only 1 person in 6 is this high. Less than 1 person in 6

is autistic/pdd/adhd (though it is getting close nowadays) so yellow

isn't high enough to be really compellling all by itself.

And