How Chelation has affected my son - so far.

[Guest guest]

Hi Listmates,

I have not been posting lately but I just wanted to update about my 8 year

old son Noahs experience with chelation. Our son tested for high lead, not

mercury - so we decided to chelate using Andy's protocol.

I am not ready to throw in the towel but what happened with Noah was pretty

scary. Between rounds 6 and 7 he began bizarre behaviors we had not seen

before. They came on within a couple of days. It was as if he became crazy

with obsessive compulsive behaviors, mostly constant non-stop copying of

peoples voices and movements plus alot of growling. It looked like Tourettes

- which we never saw before in him. He became impossible to take out in

publice because the aggitation and anxiety was extreme, he could no longer

focus on much.

Our doc, said tests showed an explosion of yeast, plus parasites. We have

been treating both since then and he VERY SLOWLY came around. After almost

three months, we don't quite have our child back yet. When around a noisy

playground or other enviroment, he begins growling and copying again.

Now, I wish I knew where to do from here. When I last posted our experience a

couple of months ago, none of you responded about having similar problems.

Moira and Andy did have good feedback but now we need more advice. If the

bad symptoms are not completely gone - should I chelate again? If so -

should I do it differently? Should I do it at all?

One one hand - I am deeply demoralized and upset about the whole chelation

thing - I didn't think it could actually hurt my son like this - but on the

other hand - I wonder if I need to continue to chelate to get rid of the lead

and maybe see improvement later on down the line. Can anyone shed some light

on this from either personal experience or science? Andy and Moira, any ideas?

Ana Wells

[Guest guest]

If he just has lead, the ALA is unnecesary.

I would check his plasma cysteine, since he went so wild (ala

increases it - DMSA doesn't - so if it was high and then he got ALA

he might respond poorly). I would also check his neutrophils (on a

CBC or blood count) right before and shortly after a round of DMSA

only chelation with a LOW DOSE (25 mg or less every 4 hours for a few

days), and then periodically thereafter. DMSA has a known side effect

of lowering neutrophils and this can be quite dangerous. Since

neutrophils control yeast, among other things, this seems like a wise

thing to check.

Unfortunately there are very real risks to doing anything powerful

enough to help. Only ineffective therapies are totally safe.

When you start chelating again, don't hesitate to stop on a dime if

you suspect problems are coming on. You know exactly what to look for

this time. A false start or two are safer than continuing to chelate

while he goes through this kind of reaction again.

I wish I had something more useful to say - let me know if you have or

get further information that might shed more light on WHY things

happened the way they did. You might want to have his adrenal

function investigated by the doc.

Andy

> Hi Listmates,

> I have not been posting lately but I just wanted to update about my

8 year

> old son Noahs experience with chelation. Our son tested for high

lead, not

> mercury - so we decided to chelate using Andy's protocol.

> I am not ready to throw in the towel but what happened with Noah was

pretty

> scary. Between rounds 6 and 7 he began bizarre behaviors we had not

seen

> before. They came on within a couple of days. It was as if he became

crazy

> with obsessive compulsive behaviors, mostly constant non-stop

copying of

> peoples voices and movements plus alot of growling. It looked like

Tourettes

> - which we never saw before in him. He became impossible to take out

in

> publice because the aggitation and anxiety was extreme, he could no

longer

> focus on much.

> Our doc, said tests showed an explosion of yeast, plus parasites. We

have

> been treating both since then and he VERY SLOWLY came around. After

almost

> three months, we don't quite have our child back yet. When around a

noisy

> playground or other enviroment, he begins growling and copying

again.

> Now, I wish I knew where to do from here. When I last posted our

experience a

> couple of months ago, none of you responded about having similar

problems.

> Moira and Andy did have good feedback but now we need more advice.

If the

> bad symptoms are not completely gone - should I chelate again? If so

-

> should I do it differently? Should I do it at all?

> One one hand - I am deeply demoralized and upset about the whole

chelation

> thing - I didn't think it could actually hurt my son like this -

but on the

> other hand - I wonder if I need to continue to chelate to get rid of

the lead

> and maybe see improvement later on down the line. Can anyone shed

some light

> on this from either personal experience or science? Andy and Moira,

any ideas?

> Ana Wells

[Guest guest]

Dear Ana,

I went back and checked your old message in the archives. In that

message you said you chelated him with 200 then 300 mg DMSA every 8

hours, and on the third round added a lot of ALA too.

I think this will make him enormously ill. This is NOT the way I

suggest doing it, which is every 4 hour dosing, or every 3-4 when ALA

is involved. I also suggest 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound of kid, which is

10-40 mg for your kid. 50 would be OK for convenience.

Did you later try this every 4 hour dosing at a reasonable dose, or

did you continue on what you describe above, which is in essence the

DAN! protocol? Or did you stop chelating him at that point, or did

you continue to chelate him on the every 8 hour protocol?

If you did the every 4 hour protocol, did you get up in the middle of

the night for the relevant dose?

Andy

> Hi Listmates,

> I have not been posting lately but I just wanted to update about my

8 year

> old son Noahs experience with chelation. Our son tested for high

lead, not

> mercury - so we decided to chelate using Andy's protocol.

The questions above are to clarify whether you used my protocol or the

DAN! protocol or something else.

> I am not ready to throw in the towel but what happened with Noah was

pretty

> scary. Between rounds 6 and 7 he began bizarre behaviors we had not

seen

> before. They came on within a couple of days. It was as if he became

crazy

> with obsessive compulsive behaviors, mostly constant non-stop

copying of

> peoples voices and movements plus alot of growling. It looked like

Tourettes

> - which we never saw before in him. He became impossible to take out

in

> publice because the aggitation and anxiety was extreme, he could no

longer

> focus on much.

> Our doc, said tests showed an explosion of yeast, plus parasites. We

have

> been treating both since then and he VERY SLOWLY came around. After

almost

> three months, we don't quite have our child back yet. When around a

noisy

> playground or other enviroment, he begins growling and copying

again.

> Now, I wish I knew where to do from here. When I last posted our

experience a

> couple of months ago, none of you responded about having similar

problems.

> Moira and Andy did have good feedback but now we need more advice.

If the

> bad symptoms are not completely gone - should I chelate again? If so

-

> should I do it differently? Should I do it at all?

> One one hand - I am deeply demoralized and upset about the whole

chelation

> thing - I didn't think it could actually hurt my son like this -

but on the

> other hand - I wonder if I need to continue to chelate to get rid of

the lead

> and maybe see improvement later on down the line. Can anyone shed

some light

> on this from either personal experience or science? Andy and Moira,

any ideas?

> Ana Wells

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/30/01 5:47:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Brushingham@... writes:

> Then after 5 rounds of chelation I decided to

> add ALA. WE did 50 mg of DMSA and 25 of ALA every 4

> hours. Thats when we got into trouble. Both kids

> were in a daze like a trance! It lasted about 7 days

> and was very creepy

We've seen the same thing with our 4 yr. old son. He was doing amazingly well

until we added the ALA and then he regressed horribly. We got his results

back from yeast and parasite testing and sure enough he's loaded with yeast &

clostridium. We're treating with Flagyl & Nizoral. We still don't have Hunter

back yet and we're on day 16 of Nizoral. I just want to start chelating again

and I believe he'll start coming out of his regression once we get some more

mercury out.

Jo

Representative for Unlocking Autism in South Carolina

www.unlockingautism.org

[Guest guest]

Dear Andy

I do not know what archives you got your information

from, but I have never done 200-300 mg of DMSA on my

child. These post get very confusing as I have stated

before. When people respond and keep passing it along

the information gets twisted. I mentioned that awhile

back when I was quoted as saying something I did not

say.

When we were first told to do a challenge test on my

son, the doctor said to do 200mg of DMSA 3 times a day

and on the 4th day to take a urine sample. I did do

that but hated the effects and stopped! that was a

year ago. Then in September 2001 I heard about your

group and started reading aboutyour protocol. That

made more sense to me so we tried it again. So far so

good. Then after 5 rounds of chelation I decided to

add ALA. WE did 50 mg of DMSA and 25 of ALA every 4

hours. Thats when we got into trouble. Both kids

were in a daze like a trance! It lasted about 7 days

and was very creepy. However it was the first time

that mercury came out of my little one who is

autistic! Before only other metals not mercury was

coming out. You told me to do every 3 hours and to

reduce the dose of both. I decided to keep using DMSA

abit longer to get rid of the other metals which were

pretty high. ALso my kids are high in copper so I

thought would be a good idea to hold off on the ALA.

I plan to add the ALA with your protocol of every 3

hours as soon as some of the other metals satrt going

down. My Dan doctor nurse told me that I should be

using their protocol of ever 8 hours and I told them

with all due respect NO WAY! That this made more sense

and I was sticking to it. Thanks

Ana

--- andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...> wrote:

> Dear Ana,

>

> I went back and checked your old message in the

> archives. In that

> message you said you chelated him with 200 then 300

> mg DMSA every 8

> hours, and on the third round added a lot of ALA

> too.

>

> I think this will make him enormously ill. This is

> NOT the way I

> suggest doing it, which is every 4 hour dosing, or

> every 3-4 when ALA

> is involved. I also suggest 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound

> of kid, which is

> 10-40 mg for your kid. 50 would be OK for

> convenience.

>

> Did you later try this every 4 hour dosing at a

> reasonable dose, or

> did you continue on what you describe above, which

> is in essence the

> DAN! protocol? Or did you stop chelating him at

> that point, or did

> you continue to chelate him on the every 8 hour

> protocol?

>

> If you did the every 4 hour protocol, did you get up

> in the middle of

> the night for the relevant dose?

>

> Andy

>

>

>

> > Hi Listmates,

> > I have not been posting lately but I just wanted

> to update about my

> 8 year

> > old son Noahs experience with chelation. Our son

> tested for high

> lead, not

> > mercury - so we decided to chelate using Andy's

> protocol.

>

> The questions above are to clarify whether you used

> my protocol or the

> DAN! protocol or something else.

>

> > I am not ready to throw in the towel but what

> happened with Noah was

> pretty

> > scary. Between rounds 6 and 7 he began bizarre

> behaviors we had not

> seen

> > before. They came on within a couple of days. It

> was as if he became

> crazy

> > with obsessive compulsive behaviors, mostly

> constant non-stop

> copying of

> > peoples voices and movements plus alot of

> growling. It looked like

> Tourettes

> > - which we never saw before in him. He became

> impossible to take out

> in

> > publice because the aggitation and anxiety was

> extreme, he could no

> longer

> > focus on much.

> > Our doc, said tests showed an explosion of yeast,

> plus parasites. We

> have

> > been treating both since then and he VERY SLOWLY

> came around. After

> almost

> > three months, we don't quite have our child back

> yet. When around a

> noisy

> > playground or other enviroment, he begins growling

> and copying

> again.

> > Now, I wish I knew where to do from here. When I

> last posted our

> experience a

> > couple of months ago, none of you responded about

> having similar

> problems.

> > Moira and Andy did have good feedback but now we

> need more advice.

> If the

> > bad symptoms are not completely gone - should I

> chelate again? If so

> -

> > should I do it differently? Should I do it at all?

> > One one hand - I am deeply demoralized and upset

> about the whole

> chelation

> > thing - I didn't think it could actually hurt my

> son like this -

> but on the

> > other hand - I wonder if I need to continue to

> chelate to get rid of

> the lead

> > and maybe see improvement later on down the line.

> Can anyone shed

> some light

> > on this from either personal experience or

> science? Andy and Moira,

> any ideas?

> > Ana Wells

>

>

=====

Always

Ana Brushingham

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Ana,

My comments are a lot like the last time (that is, not much

help!) I am grateful to you for sharing your experiences,

and very sorry and sad about the nature of the situation

your son has been going through. I don't feel I have any

insight into what should be done. I think that montoring

yeast VERY CAREFUL, or even treating it (whether apparently

needed or not) might be worth considering. (I have been treating

myself for yeast almost continually for some time, but am

using a treatment that I think is really benign--- so this

may not be a similar situation if the yeast treatments themselves

have negatives??) Your combination of upset about chelation

and still wondering if lead may be a big problem makes total

sense to me. I hope Andy may have some thoughts about lead

chelation. I might also go read everything available on lead

poisoning--- Turning Lead Into Gold, research, whatever.....

I think another hair test would be reasonable to see if it

says anything new. And I hope your doc has ideas of what

else to test for. Reading about Tourettes treatments might

also potentially be some use (not because your kid has Tourettes,

but because the symptoms look alike.) Of course, if it is one

of those " medicine has no clue " type things, why bother.

Again, these are just thoughts that come to mind in the couple

of minutes I've spent writing this note, and are not profound.

all the best to you and to Noah---- I am so sorry he has been

through this trial!

Moria

At 02:27 AM 12/30/2001 EST, you wrote:

>Hi Listmates,

>I have not been posting lately but I just wanted to update about my 8 year

>old son Noahs experience with chelation. Our son tested for high lead, not

>mercury - so we decided to chelate using Andy's protocol.

>I am not ready to throw in the towel but what happened with Noah was pretty

>scary. Between rounds 6 and 7 he began bizarre behaviors we had not seen

>before. They came on within a couple of days. It was as if he became crazy

>with obsessive compulsive behaviors, mostly constant non-stop copying of

>peoples voices and movements plus alot of growling. It looked like Tourettes

>- which we never saw before in him. He became impossible to take out in

>publice because the aggitation and anxiety was extreme, he could no longer

>focus on much.

>Our doc, said tests showed an explosion of yeast, plus parasites. We have

>been treating both since then and he VERY SLOWLY came around. After almost

>three months, we don't quite have our child back yet. When around a noisy

>playground or other enviroment, he begins growling and copying again.

>Now, I wish I knew where to do from here. When I last posted our

experience a

>couple of months ago, none of you responded about having similar problems.

>Moira and Andy did have good feedback but now we need more advice. If the

>bad symptoms are not completely gone - should I chelate again? If so -

>should I do it differently? Should I do it at all?

>One one hand - I am deeply demoralized and upset about the whole chelation

>thing - I didn't think it could actually hurt my son like this - but on

the

>other hand - I wonder if I need to continue to chelate to get rid of the

lead

>and maybe see improvement later on down the line. Can anyone shed some light

>on this from either personal experience or science? Andy and Moira, any

ideas?

>Ana Wells

[Guest guest]

hello, i just wanted to share what ive seen with my boys.

i have three autistic boys and started treating them with diet, it

really worked and then i was giving them nystatin for the yeast. when

i started chelating them i noticed things improving while they were

on and back sliding a bit when they were off. one had a lot of blood

dried in his nose all the time. i find chelating brings back the

yeast a bit but my boys are still on the diet so its not too bad. i

was wondering, i read that some parents give the pills in juice,

perhaps thats why the yeast gets bad. i just get the boys to take the

pills. they are 4,7,10. i have not had any serious regression at all.

(so far)

rebecca

[Guest guest]

mytristy wrote:

> hello, i just wanted to share what ive seen with my boys.

> i have three autistic boys and started treating them with diet, it

> really worked and then i was giving them nystatin for the yeast. when

> i started chelating them i noticed things improving while they were

> on and back sliding a bit when they were off. one had a lot of blood

> dried in his nose all the time. i find chelating brings back the

> yeast a bit but my boys are still on the diet so its not too bad. i

> was wondering, i read that some parents give the pills in juice,

> perhaps thats why the yeast gets bad. i just get the boys to take the

> pills. they are 4,7,10. i have not had any serious regression at all.

> (so far)

> rebecca

WOW, 3 autistic boys! I bow to your patience!

my son is 2, we use Nystatin in a liquid form. As yeast pretty much starts in

the mouth, I let it stay in his mouth before I let him have a " chaser " . We

begin chelation this week so we'll see what happens when I give him sulfur.

I do know that if he gets excessive juice he gets loose stools (with that

nasty yeast smell). When I switched to making juice (carrot, celery with a

small amount of apple) in a juicer (even though the juices I by have no added

sugars) we get an change in just about 24 hours.

If I can just get mom and grandparents to STOP giving him juice I think he'd

be better off. I was sick for a week and when I took care of him and stopped

the juice it worked wonders.

all those sugar carbohydrates going to the yeast seems to be like offering

free beer for frat boys, things go NUTS!

You might try a cool mist humidifier to help with the nose bleeds.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ana,

I felt really sorry reading about Noah's experience. I don't really know

what's happening, but I was thinking that sulfate and fruit sugars

usually feed the candida and sometimes these can cause an explosive

overgrowth. Especially the fruit sugars ar bad.

Also, maybe you should try to eliminate " sulfury foods " for a while... I

don't know about this one, but just an idea... And maybe next time when

you will add ALA (I'm sure you will soon) try a much smaller dose...

Hope this helps a little...

Just don't give up. Things will get better soon, I'm sure!

Valentina

[Guest guest]

JPiker@... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/30/01 5:47:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Brushingham@... writes:

>

> > Then after 5 rounds of chelation I decided to

> > add ALA. WE did 50 mg of DMSA and 25 of ALA every 4

> > hours. Thats when we got into trouble. Both kids

> > were in a daze like a trance! It lasted about 7 days

> > and was very creepy

>

> We've seen the same thing with our 4 yr. old son. He was doing amazingly well

> until we added the ALA and then he regressed horribly.

From lef.org site, they mentioned that supplementing biotin along with ALA. But

I

have not

seen the explanation for it.

mt

> We got his results

> back from yeast and parasite testing and sure enough he's loaded with yeast &

> clostridium. We're treating with Flagyl & Nizoral. We still don't have Hunter

> back yet and we're on day 16 of Nizoral. I just want to start chelating again

> and I believe he'll start coming out of his regression once we get some more

> mercury out.

>

> Jo

> Representative for Unlocking Autism in South Carolina

> www.unlockingautism.org

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank all of you for your feedback. I don't feel alone about going through

this regression with chelation. I have a question to those of you going

through this - Has your child come completely out of the regression cycle?

Did you decide to continue to chelate to see if it made him better? Did it

make you child better or worse to continue the chelation ?.

A. Wells

Noahs Mom

In a message dated 12/30/2001 6:40:41 PM,

writes:

<< Subject: Re: Re: How Chelation has affected my son - so far.

JPiker@... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/30/01 5:47:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Brushingham@... writes:

>

> > Then after 5 rounds of chelation I decided to

> > add ALA. WE did 50 mg of DMSA and 25 of ALA every 4

> > hours. Thats when we got into trouble. Both kids

> > were in a daze like a trance! It lasted about 7 days

> > and was very creepy

>

> We've seen the same thing with our 4 yr. old son. He was doing amazingly

well

> until we added the ALA and then he regressed horribly.

From lef.org site, they mentioned that supplementing biotin along with ALA.

But I

have not

seen the explanation for it.

mt

> We got his results

> back from yeast and parasite testing and sure enough he's loaded with yeast

&

> clostridium. We're treating with Flagyl & Nizoral. We still don't have

Hunter

> back yet and we're on day 16 of Nizoral. I just want to start chelating

again

> and I believe he'll start coming out of his regression once we get some more

> mercury out.

>

> Jo

> Representative for Unlocking Autism in South Carolina

> www.unlockingautism.org >>

[Guest guest]

my son had a terrible regression last year. Yeast, Klebsiella and giardia

turned up. We were using a high dose of DMSA. After getting rid of all the

bad stuff we went to a low dose DMSA/ALA and now we are seeing good things.

It was very scary and I am happy to stay ata low dose even though it will

take longer. hang in there!

karen

[Guest guest]

> Do you

> think its too risky to go ahead if the behaviors haven't completely

> gone?

Hi Ana,

If this can be of any help, I started to chelate my son exactly BECAUSE he was

having already the behavior you described... He was really really out of

control. He was very aggressive, he used to just let himself fall on the floor

and would hit his head on the floor when he wanted something and was refused. He

used to cry for hours if I wouldn't go to him and kiss his eyes. He couldn't

understand words, of course he wasn't speaking either... he was echolalic (still

is some, but he's not so obsessed anymore). I couldn't take him anywhere. I

couldn't leave him home either, because it was nobody to take care of him, but

to go somewhere with Denis... UFF!! I would have preferred to have an arm cut

Anyway, he developed all these behaviors in time... and I didn't know how to

make him stop... I tried everything I could think of. Nothing worked.

The only thing that made a difference was chelation. He started to change in

better right from the first round and with each round he was better and better.

I'm not sure if it will work for your son too, but it should, if the metals are

the problem.

I hope this will help you to answer your question...

> Valentina,

> can you tell me more about avoiding sulfate and fruite sugars? Fruit

> sugars seem pretty obvious but can you give me examples of what

> has the sulfates in it?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I assume you are asking me how you

should avoid sulfate. Well... actually you shouldn't. Yes, it may cause you some

problems with candida, but also sulfate is very necessary, very important.

Sulfate (SO4) is produced in our body. It is the most oxidized form of sulfur

and it is necessary in a lot of processes in our bodies, but one very important

aspect is that sulfate is needed to detoxify the body. Including phenols and the

toxins that candida generates. Usually, autistic kids are losing sulfate. Also,

many of them cannot produce this sulfate. This is why it is important to

actually help your son's body and give him sulfate, usually in the form of the

Epsom salts.

It is believed that SO4 (sulfate) feeds candida. Candida will probably take the

sulfate and excrete it as H2S. H2S will create a toxic, very foul smelling gas.

So if you notice that your son's stool smells really bad lately, maybe this is

what's happening. I don't know how to take care of this. I'm not sure if there

is a way, other than killing candida I know it's not easy to do this.

In my logic, I think the best way is to chelate. I really believe that in time,

this will take care of many problems.

I don't know if I make sense, but hope this will help a little.

Happy New Year Ann

Valentina