artichokes, cynarin, extracts, herbalism

[Guest guest]

Moria:

Artichoke extract [cynara Floridanum] and sarsaparilla root extract [smilax

aristolochiaefolia] contain naturally-occurring and consistent levels of

bioflavanoids and polyphenols: silymarin, quercetin, catechin, hesperidin,

rutin, cynarin, and chlorogenic acid.

Liver Support combination of herbal extracts specifically detoxifies and

supports liver and gall bladder function.

The rationale behind using a liver support prior to, and during, detoxification,

is to assist the liver in converting toxins to water-soluble form, making them

easier to excrete via the urinary system.

This formula is available throughout the year at a consistent level of active

ingredients and potency. I use this specific formula, since it is the only one

that separates marketing statements from actual double-blind, placebo-controlled

clinical studies. 93% reduction of enlarged livers and 88% reduction in enlarged

spleens within 30 days represents a remarkable and natural regeneration of organ

function!

I experienced greater energy, digestion, and elimination within the first three

days of adding only this formulation to my supplemental intake.

http://www.geocities.com/futurepharm/world.html

Click on link to " oral Chelation " for further information.

Mike Menkes, LMT

Moria Merriweather <moriam@...> wrote: <<Mike said, in part: >>

>Read the research. This is a specially-grown artichoke, not your garden

>variety. It reverses cirrhosis within 30 days, and supports proper liver

>function necessary for handling the detoxification load.

>Mike Menkes, LMT

========================

Okay Mike, I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on refuting

this, but I'll do a cursury web search for ya. I will also repeat

that it is hard for me to feel motivated to discuss it with you,

since I don't think you are actually interested in artichokes,

herbal medicine, or much of anything beyond selling your

liver tonic. I'm not against liver tonics, and have spent

money buying them, but it doesn't make for interesting discussion

unless somebody else [potentially you in this case] actually

has some interest. You have yet to say a single thing that

indicates you have ever tried to use any part of an artichoke

plant for liver health. You continue to point to your extract.

I'm sorry, but from my point of view, I don't really HAVE to

" read the research " to know this is wrong. I've been

growing and taking herbs long enough to realize that most

medicinal properties are found across whole groups of related

plants and across many parts of a given plant -- but to

differeing degrees, and with variations. Part of my opinion

(just my view of life here) of what MAKES a " good herbalist "

good is that they encourage the use of PLANTS and they actually

relate to PLANTS. I'll use Hobbs as an example,

since I've met him. Okay, now he FORMULATES the herbal tintures

for some company or other. But, if you go hear him talk, he

will talk about what is in flower (or in seed) right now that

you can go pick along the roadsides, and he'll talk about growing

the plants so that you get to know them. When I talk about artichokes

stems and flowers and seeds and you talk abuot an extract that is

in your product, I think you are not at all interested. Which

means, to me, that you are not really qualified to teach me

anything about use of artichokes as a herbal remedy. As far

as I know, you know zero about that. You know there is a

product that contains an extract made from some artichoke or

other. Again, this is my personal slant on life, but to me

that is not medicine. If you took me and showed me the plant,

and explained how to use it, THAT would be medicine.

You can have all the studies that you want that show that your

product reverses cirrhosis, and that says absolutely zero

to invalidate the use of any other product or any other

part of an artichoke or milk thistle or dandelion plant.

Its great that your product is good, but why knock my

using artichokes? Do you have ANY evidence that

my artichoke tea is not as good as or better than your extract?

I'd suggest that you go find any website or any research that

suggests that " garden variety " artichokes plants (leaves,

stems, etc) will NOT reverse cirrhosis.

For the record, in case someone is wondering: yes, I *do* think

that using whole plants is superior to using synthetic

replicas of constituent chemicals. (I am not suggeting your

product is synthesized, I realize it is an EXTRACT.)

And I don't really care

how good the science is that proves it is the same. I value

a quality called " life " and you can't get it out of test tubes.

My artichoke plants are *amazing*. I've been watching them

grow, in awe, for a year. I planted them last summer, about

3 " tall when I bought them. They are now taller than I am,

full of life, huge. And I guess I picked over 100 artichokes.

Hummingbirds are attracted to the " thistle " on the stems which

I have let " go to seed " . The flowers are a brilliant purple--

and hummingbirds come to visit.

Okay, here is your websearch:

At: http://www.rain-tree.com/artichoke.htm, I find:

" The Artichoke is popular for its pleasant bitter taste which is attributed

to phytochemicals found in the green parts of the

plants called cynaropicrin and cynarin, sesquiterpene lactones with

documented medicinal actions. The phytochemicals in

artichoke have been well documented and the leaves rather than the flower

have been found to be higher in medicinal

value. The medicinal activity of the leaves are attributed to the presence

of caffeoylquinic acids and acid derivatives,

cynarin and luteolin. In combination, leaf extracts have demonstrated a

beneficial effect on the gallbladder, to stimulate the

secretion of bile in the liver, detoxify the liver, and lowers the level of

cholesterol in the blood. In addition, other

compounds in the leaves have shown to posses a hypoglycemic effect. "

Note this says that cynarin is present in leaves and flowers of

" artichokes " . Not some specific kind.

" Artichoke has been shown to increase the production and volume of bile

flow by as much as four times

normal in a 12-hour period. "

I think this means Andy would be against taking it. But I would

be undecided.

" Scientific evidence supports the use of artichoke as a liver remedy.

Cynarin is the active ingredient

contained in the plant, and its highest concentration is in the

leaves. According to reports, cynara (artichoke

leaves) extract has demonstrated significant liver regenerating and

protecting effects. "

=================

from:

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/spectrum/nutrition_research_highlights.htm

" Unlike cholesterol-lowering drugs that can sometimes cause liver damage,

cynarin actually improves liver function. It is a close

biological cousin of

the herb milk thistle, which is also known for its positive

effects on the

liver.

===========

from: http://www.a3r.org/library/Encyclopedia.cfm?start=G

" Globe Artichokes (Cynarin)

What other names is it known as?

Active Ingredients: Cynarin

What is it?

Part used; edible flower bud (hard) and

(rubbery) blossom leaves (not the thistle -like

leaf at the base of the stem) "

=========

regards,

Moria

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