Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 > I am looking into chelation for my 4 year old son. I work for a > pharmacy and get drugs at cost, and I found out our cost on one > hundred 100mg capsules is $375. Now I see on Kirkman's site that 90 > 100mg capsules is $95. Can someone tell me why there is such a huge > difference? > > Also, I am looking to get an overall picture on the pros and cons of > chelation. Is anyone having no progress or very little progress? > Any terrible side effects? If you reply please include the age and > weight of your child as well as the dosing schedule you are following. > > Also, why are many people following a 3 or 4 hour schedule when the > consensus paper states that an 8 hour schedule is just as effective? > > Thank you very much. > > Alice Alice: You have lots of questions, as I did when I began all of this. 1. I work at a pharmacy also. If you pharmacy can make capsules, they can actually buy the bulk powder even cheaper than what you can buy at Kirkman's. I have my pharmacy compound the powder into a glycerine paper instead of a capsule to avoid all additives. 2. My son, Dylan, is 3.1 and 36 pounds. In July when we started, he just started using two words together. We have done 6 rounds. With the first two rounds (80mg DMSA every 4 hours 3 on and 11 off) we saw regression--stimming we have NEVER seen before, bad and aggressive behavior, etc. The next round we reduced the dose to 20mg DMSA. Saw fewer side effects. We added ALA to the next two rounds at 5mg. Sticking it out despite the " bad " stuff has been challenging and an excersize in faith. Especially hard is that it seems to " beat the stuff out of him " --after every round he seems tired, pale, irratable, and with a blotchy rash on his face. (Anyone else see this?) The positive results that we have seen are many, and include increased language, (an example would be he used to say " again " and now he says things like " I want read it again, " " I want do it again, " and " One more time. " ) he has on several occassions asked questions, he looks for us when we aren't around (saying " mommy, mommy, where are you? " , he pretends more (from just about 0 to occassionally every day). Also, he is in ABA therapy 33 hours per week, and his therapists also commented that they thought his eye contact has improved considerably. All in all, we are throwing a lot at him between the diet, supplements, anti-fungals, probiotics, digestive enzymes, chelation, transfer factor, and ABA and play therapy....so I can't say what is working what percent. But I do know that SOMETHING or the COMBINATION of things is working. And we believe chelation is a major factor. He keeps amazing us with his continued progress. 4. We are using the 4 hour dosing schedule because a) many experts on this group have advised it, and it is a little more of a pain in the butt, but can't hurt. Good luck, Alice, in your pursuit of recovery for your child. We feel that chelation is giving us results, and see a surprise after every round. After the last round? Spontaneously making a doll dance to music, walking another up the doll house steps, putting them to bed and snoring, commenting that something he tasted was " good " (this was a first) and saying " How are you? " and responding " good " when we say the same. It is a journey, but one that I believe is worth while. Now that I am well into chelation, I rarely even check this group, feeling more confident that we made the correct decision and being more comfortable with just continuing on. So, if you want to reach me, my work email is mkelly@.... Marcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hello Alice, >I am looking into chelation for my 4 year old son. I work for a >pharmacy and get drugs at cost, and I found out our cost on one >hundred 100mg capsules is $375. Now I see on Kirkman's site that 90 >100mg capsules is $95. Can someone tell me why there is such a huge >difference? What product is this? Some of the people from Kirkman's read this list, and may be able to assist you. >Also, I am looking to get an overall picture on the pros and cons of >chelation. Is anyone having no progress or very little progress? >Any terrible side effects? If you reply please include the age and >weight of your child as well as the dosing schedule you are following. You can look in this file: /files/LOVE_LETTERS It includes a FEW " negative " or " no results " cases. (They are noted next to name). I pick the stuff that goes in this file, and can tell you that I do NOT include stuff about negative side effects (lots are reported). I also do not think this file is statistically representative or " objective " -- I am really looking for the " positive " reports, but do include some negatives when I think they are sort of " the final outcome " or something of that sort. >Also, why are many people following a 3 or 4 hour schedule when the >consensus paper states that an 8 hour schedule is just as effective? I'd have to say that the vast majority or people using every 3-4 hours are doing so because of listening to Andy Cutler's reasoning about why this is better/safer. You can read all about it yourself if you'd like, here: /files/ANDY_INDEX Look in the section on " dose schedules " , then look for items that say stuff like " good and bad dose schedules " , etc. >Thank you very much. Sure Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Brad, Thanks much for the suggestion. I am so new at this, and was really blown away that lab work seemed to indicate that the treatment was making things worse. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 > > Any guidance on how replacment might cause a decrease in serum > testosterone? Anyone else have a similar experience? I am so tempted > to stop the Androgel. It's not free <G>. > > Thanks much, > > Jim Starting therapy may cause your LH to fall. The effect may not be immediate so you feel better for awhile. I wouldn't assume it is a placebo effect. If you are no longer getting the treatment benefit you once had, why not try pushing the dose or trying an alternative delivery method before abandoning the effort. You might be able to find a compounded transdermal preparation that is less expensive than Androgel. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Allot of men feel initially very positive effects with even a little testosterone added. These effects are very real and are not a placebo effect. However, Brad is right that Testosterone Replacement will suppress your naturally produced tesoterone to the point that your body will not produce any more testosterone whatsoever (unless you add HCG to the mix). So in the begining, you feel the positive effects of the external testosterone from the gel and the testosterone that your body is producing. Then, at about the stage you are at, you rely solely on the testosterone from the gel because your body stops producing the testosterone. The trick, if you see that your negative, pre-treatment symptoms are slowly creeping back, is to up your dose to make up for the testosterone that your body used to produce. 5G daily is the lowest recommended prescription for Androgel. You might want to consider 7.5G, and then 10G if you feel it is needed to get your blood levels up and reep the benefits. Cheers. > Brad, > > Thanks much for the suggestion. I am so new at this, and was really blown > away that lab work seemed to indicate that the treatment was making things worse. > > Jim > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hi I would not change anything until a new blood test is done you would not beleve how many bad tests I have had come back in 20 yrs. Phil -- - In , " Jim " <DRBEAR22@A...> wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to this group and recently diagnosed with hypogonadism. I > was initially uncomfortable with the idea of testosterone > replacement, believing that it would have negative health effects and > cause my testicles to atrophy. After some research, I agreed to begin > replacement therapy. > > Within a week of replacement, I began to feel more energy, became > more focused, and my mood greatly improved. After 3 weeks, first time > in 4 years, I was able to successfully stop taking antidepressants > without a recurrence of depressive symptoms.I thought that I had > actually discovered an answer to some ongoing symptoms. > > Well, after a month of therapy, I had my first follow-up blood > levels. To my surprise, my testosterone level had actually decreased. > My physician merely said " If you feel better, keep using it. " I am > now wondering if my improvement was merely a placebo effect. Also, I > am stumped on how my level could have dropped after beginning > replacment therapy. I doubled checked with the pharmacist about > administration and he assured me that I had been properly appplying > the Androgel 5mg. > > Any guidance on how replacment might cause a decrease in serum > testosterone? Anyone else have a similar experience? I am so tempted > to stop the Androgel. It's not free <G>. > > Thanks much, > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Were the blood tests done at the same time each day? T level should be checked early in the the AM. My endo likes it done around 8. It took me about six months to get a steady T level on AndroGel. Jim cav12th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Cav12, Thanks for the information. I have a feeling that my doc has no idea of what he is doing. He gave me no instructions as to when I should have the test drawn. I have only had the one on Androgel and it was around 9:45am. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Phil, Now my doc has instructed me to increase to two packets of 5mg Androgel per day and then retest in one month. I have a feeling that he really isn't an expert in this area. I am doing as instructed, but if I am not happy with his care in one month, I will seek out a second opinion. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Thanks! I have been instructed to increase to 10mg (2 packets of 5mg daily) and then recheck in one month. I feel like I am bathing in Androgel LOL! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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