Re: how can you tell if you have a b12 absorption problem?

[Guest guest]

There are blood tests that you can get, or energy based tests like Q-SCIO or

EDS/EAV.  But most with chronic conditions have been found to have poor

absorption of B12.   There are also nasal sprays and sublinguals which

increase absorption relative to supplements.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

About B12. I do know that it is hard for the body to absorb through the

digestive tract (which is why injections are sometimes necessary). But if you do

want to take B12 as a supplement, make sure you take the methylcobalamin form

(vs. cyanocobalamin) The cyano.form actually increases inflammation, whereas the

methyl.form can help repair nerves. The best form is " sublingual, " which you let

dissolve under your tongue. This way it is absorbed through the mucous membrane

lining of your mouth directly into your bloodstream, rather than going through

the digestive tract. I take a 5 mg sublingual methylcobalamin B12 (forget brand,

but can get the name if anyone wants to know.)

Beverly

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Source Naturals Methylcobalamin Vitamin B12 -- 5 mg - 60 Tablets Retail

price:

$31.50 Our price:

$16.03

Beth and Chad: This is the B12 I use. I get it online at VitaCost because I

think their price is good. Make sure you let it dissolve fully under the tongue

and best to take after a meal.

Beverly

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

B12 is one of those vitamins that is not absorbed well orally - in any format.

The BEST (and perhaps only) way to absorb B12 is to get it sub cutaniously

through injection. The other and perhaps BEST alternative is via food. These

Himalayan Raisins are one of the highest forms of B12 I have found (and are

SUPER tasty). They are more expensive than regular raisins, but definitely

worth it! And I believe a FAR better choice over vitamins - no matter who makes

them! See below....

Golden Himalayan Raisins are raw and organic from the foothills of the

Himalaya. Traditionally grown, irrigated with the most pristine high mineral

glacier water, hand-picked and sun-dried. Unsulphured, free of additives and

colorings. Golden Himalayan Raisins are the most delicious and precious of its

kind. They are loaded with minerals, such as Manganese, Iron, Copper and

Magnesium rich in vitamins B6, B12 and C, they even contain rare trace minerals.

Raisins give immediate energy but too much of any dried fruit can effect the

blood sugar level, therefore a little goes a long way!

http://shop.rawfoodchef.com/v4/go.gnf?s=llite & n=default & d=products & product=15365

Roe

~ Roe

v | The greatest gift one can give is the gift of health! v |

~ It is far better to forgive and forget than to hate and remember! ~

I am living to Live AGAIN!

[Guest guest]

Not exactly /Tom wrt to B12 (EXACTLY wrt getting the body in

balance an people concerned with b12 deficinencies). Grapes and

especially these raisins DO have b12. b12 can come from the water

and soil the grapes are grown in...please read below to understand

HOW we get b12...it also addresses the liver question...

Microorganisms, primarily bacteria, are the only known organisms that

manufacture B12. These bacteria often live in bodies of water and

soil. Animals get B12 by eating food and soil contaminated with these

microorganisms. " Read more here...

So B12 is created by microorganisms, and is (ideally) to be found in

water and soil. It is also produced by bacteria in our intestines

(Herbert V. Vitamin B12: Plant sources, requirements, and assay. Am J

Clin Nutr 1988; 48: 852-858.). From PubMed: : " ...the human small

intestine also often harbours a considerable microflora and this is

even more extensive in apparently healthy southern Indian subjects.

We now show that at least two groups of organisms in the small bowel,

Pseudomonas and Klebsiella sp., may synthesise significant amounts of

the vitamin. " B12 is also partially recycled in out bodies.

One very interesting article I've seen on B12 is this one:

http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm . Here's a quote

from it:

" B12 is the only vitamin synthesized solely by certain

microorganisms - many of which are abundant in soil. And the only

vitamin containing a trace element: cobalt. B12 owes its chemical

name 'cobalamin' to the cobalt at the center of its molecular

structure. Humans and all vertebrates require cobalt, though it's

assimilated only in the form of B12.

Cobalt is important in the plant world. Bacteria on root nodules of

legumes (beans, alfalfa, clover) require cobalt (and other trace

elements) to synthesize B12 and fix nitrogen from air. Soybeans grown

without cobalt are severely retarded in growth and exhibit severe

nitrogen deficiency, leading to death in about one of four plants.

Adding only a few ounces of cobalt per acre can resolve deficiency

symptoms in ten to 21 days.

Cobalt deficiency is far more dramatic in animals, particularly

ruminants (cattle, deer, camels, and sheep) grazing on deficient

pasture. These animals obtain all their B12 from their gut bacteria,

but only if bacteria are provided cobalt salts from pasture. Legumes

with less than 80 parts per billion (ppb) cobalt can't meet ruminant

B12 needs. Under deficient conditions, calves and lambs thrive and

grow normally for a few months as they draw on B12 reserves in liver

and other tissue, but soon exhibit gradual loss of appetite and

failure to grow, followed by anemia, rapid weight loss and finally

death. Marginally deficient pastures cause birth of weak lambs and

calves that don't survive long. These symptoms mirror B12 deficiency

in human infants.

The implication for humans subsisting on vegetarian diets are

profound. B12 synthesis by indigenous bacteria is known to occur

naturally in the human small intestine, primary site of B12

absorption. As long as gut bacteria have cobalt and certain other

nutrients, they produce B12. In principle then, internal B12

synthesis could fulfill our needs without any B12 provided by diet.

But if cobalt in our diet is on the wane, perhaps the problem isn't

so much lack of B12-synthesizing intestinal flora as lack of cobalt,

the element with which bacteria weave their magic. The burning

question then is: how cobalt deficient is our soil? "

Animals and plants require cobalt in order to synthesize / produce

B12. (B12 is called cobalamin because of the cobalt atom in it's

center). In reply to " where does the bacteria come from " , one could

maybe reply " from cobalt " , but this isn't totally 100% correct. It

comes from a combination of microorganisms and cobalt. B12 can

sometimes be found on the surface of plants, and commercial B12

production is partly based on growing B12 on the surface of molasses.

Animals need cobalt from the soil in order not to develop B12

deficiency, but where does cobalt come from?

Studies show that ie. spinach grown in maneured soil contains 17.8

mcg B12/kg (dry weight), but since spinach grown in unmaneured soil

also contains B12 (6.9mcg), we can't really say that the B12 come

from cow dung only.

Maybe soil and water always contains minute traces of humans, insects

and animals? That might be, but it wouldn't worry me much: if

drinking water from a mountain stream contain microscopic amounts of

animal products, so be it. Nature is a giant recycle bin, and there's

not much we can do about it. Microorganisms / bacteria is part of

nature. B12 is not only to be found in water and soil, but also in

grass, on dust and in bark!

Roe

> Good point !

>

> IIRC, B vitamins are produced by the liver. Therefore helping your

> liver is the best thing you can do to improve your B12

output...True?

>

> Tom Nesler

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will have to get back to you on that Tom. I just ordered more of

them and have to read the package. These are the only raisins my

autisitic son will eat and our Chinese doctor HIGHLY recommended them

as an excellent way to get trace minerals and high amounts of b12.

Plus they are sweet like candy! This is not true for other raisins and

I understand only certain grapes grown in the Himalyians are known for

their high nutritional value it has a lot to do with their soil and

water source - same with gogi berries. One really has to be careful

when buying gogi and other berries that are super popular these days.

There are MANY species and not all are created equal. Our Chinese

doctor says NEVER buy them if they are grown in China. Tibet or

Himilayans are good though.

Roe

>

> These raisins sound great but does anyone have the exact nutritional

> output per serving (and the serving size)?

>

> Sometimes the original food has so little actual vitamins that you

have

> to eat a ton of the food to equal one regular vitamin's potency.

>

> Just curious!...:-)

>

> Tom Nesler

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well that is an excellent question! We do not know about

nutritionally depleted soil or how much cobalt is in its soil. But

what we do know is that it isn't developed and more pristine with the

high altitude and lack of human interaction. Natural water and soil

has not be processed. The only way I know about the value of

nutrients in foods is via ORAC tests. And who is going to do these

costly tests? I found many different sites about the Himalayan

raisins, but most of them sell them. So I guess we have to have some

trust in just the fact that they truly come form the Himalayans

mountains which would offer the non-depleted soil.

Yes, Intrinsic factor plays a vital role in the absorption of vit

b12 - my point is mostly that we do not absorb vit b12 from

vitamins. It needs to come from food and the body needs to be

healthy/balanced...Or the very minimum injection.

ORAC Test

The ORAC Test is a standardized test adopted by the US. Department of

Agriculture to measure the Total Antioxidant Potency of foods and

nutritional supplements. The antioxidant capacity of the blood seems

to be tightly regulated. A significant increase in antioxidants of

15 to 20 percent is possible by increasing consumption of fruits and

vegetables, particularly those high in ORAC value. Dr. Cao and Dr.

Prior of the Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts

University have established a recommended 5,000 ORAC Units Daily to

have a significant impact on plasma and tissue antioxidant capacity

and for helping prevent certain age related diseases.

ORAC Scale: Orac Units per 100g

Egg plant – 390

Corn – 400

Onion – 450

Grapefruit – 483

Kiwi fruit – 602

Cherries – 670

Red bell pepper – 710

Red grapes – 739

Oranges – 750

Beets – 840

Broccoli – 890

Alfalfa sprouts – 930

Plums – 949

Brussel sprouts – 980

Raspberries – 1220

Spinach – 1260

Stawberries – 1540

Kale - 1770

Black berries – 2036

Blueberries – 2400

Raisins – 2830

Prunes – 5770

TIBETAN GOJI BERRIES – 27,500

>

> Not exactly /Tom wrt to B12 (EXACTLY wrt getting the body in

> balance an people concerned with b12 deficinencies). Grapes and

> especially these raisins DO have b12. b12 can come from the water

> and soil the grapes are grown in...please read below to understand

> HOW we get b12...it also addresses the liver question...

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom, sometimes it is better to go to wikipedia for definiations than

the dictionary. Check out their explanation of intrinsic factor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor

Short, simple and to the point. If you want more detailed information,

then you gotta do a complete google search. 's post is very

detailed! Good one ! I still think that if we take b12

naturally from fruits/veggies that are grown with nutritent rich soil (

that contain cobalt) that is the best way to get Vit b12 and it will be

absorbed. Like that last article stated, I think people are more

cobalt deficient than they are vit b12.

Roe

>

> " Nesler, J " wrote:

> Hello!

>

> You mention the " intrinsic factor " . I have never heard of this as a

> biologic term. Can you provide more info on what this is?

> Tom Nesler

>

[Guest guest]

But be careful because anyone can post on Wikipedia.

Janet

----- Original Message -----

From: Roe

Tom, sometimes it is better to go to wikipedia for definiations than

the dictionary. Check out their explanation of intrinsic factor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor